Should I make other plans?

[Leigh 87]

I actually think that you are so concerned about a man having 'one over you' that this pre-emptive behaviour sends the wrong vibes.

 

I'm not sure you are aware of your own part in the dynamic that is created. It does indeed seem that you produce little problems and gradually push the other person away.

 

I think somewhere along the line you didn't learn how to build and maintain long term relationships.

 

I think he just wasn't that into her.

 

I dont believe he was super interested and then changed his mind somehow.

 

She is so right; when a man is into you, you just know.

 

She picks up on things and then second guesses in the hope that she may be wrong.

[katiegrl]

She is so right; when a man is into you, you just know.

 

Not if you're insecure, mistrustful and resentful.... combined with healthy dose of fear of relationships and commitment.

 

When you're insecure, mistrustful and resentful.... and/or have commitment fears.... you make mountains out of molehills, have unrealistic expectations ... and/or otherwise will self-sabotage every dating experience you ever have.

 

This man did nothing wrong except being unable to read ES' mind.

 

He made a date with her and contacted her 11 hours prior saying he reserved a table for 7:00 pm. Asked her if that time worked for her.

 

Told her he was excited to see her again!

 

She got snotty and responded back no it wasn't she was going out with friends, which probably wasn't even true, and could meet at 8:30 pm.

 

So he changed the reservation.

 

When she got there, she had an attitude that had been building for two days, which he sensed and GOT TURNED OFF BECAUSE OF THAT.

Edited June 24, 2016 by katiegrl

[Leigh 87]

Not if you're insecure, mistrustful and resentful.... combined with healthy dose of fear of relationships and commitment.

 

When you're insecure, mistrustful and resentful.... or have commitment fears.... you make mountains out of molehills, have unrealistic expectations ... and/or otherwise will self-sabotage every dating experience you ever have.

 

True.

 

I have done this.

 

I have had a few guys seem legitimately interested that I have pushed away due to my own mentality of " well, men I like are never into me so this guy must also be full o sht"

[Leigh 87]

Not if you're insecure, mistrustful and resentful.... combined with healthy dose of fear of relationships and commitment.

 

When you're insecure, mistrustful and resentful.... and/or have commitment fears.... you make mountains out of molehills, have unrealistic expectations ... and/or otherwise will self-sabotage every dating experience you ever have.

 

This man did nothing wrong except being unable to read ES' mind.

 

He made a date with her and contacted her 11 hours prior saying he reserved a table for 7:00 pm. Asked her if that time worked for her.

 

Told her he was excited to see her again!

 

She got snotty and responded back no it wasn't she was going out with friends, which probably wasn't even true, and could meet at 8:30 pm.

 

So he changed the reservation.

 

When she got there, she had an attitude that had been building for two days, which he sensed and GOT TURNED OFF BECAUSE OF THAT.

 

 

Still.

 

While my bf would have been taken aback, it wouldnt have made him that aloof snd disinterested.

 

For the making plans with friends thing alone.

[katiegrl]

Still.

 

While my bf would have been taken aback, it wouldnt have made him that aloof snd disinterested.

 

For the making plans with friends thing alone.

 

Yeah, it was probably not because she made plans with friends.

 

Probably more her attitude and body language when she walked in. Again, her resentment had been building for two days... that had to have shown. And he picked it up.... and it turned him off.

 

It was only their second date after all....

 

Unless they had an instant connection on their first date and intense chemistry.... which it doesn't sound like they did (hell, did your read where she referred to him as ugly?).... then him getting turned off by HER aloofness and standoffishness ...while on the date.... was perfectly understandable.

 

If your bf wouldn't have gotten turned off by all that... then bless his heart!

 

But different men will have different reactions...

[MissBee]

Could it be that he got turned off by your "catching up with friends before dinner"? Maybe HE was expecting YOU to show some affection?

 

This doesn't compute.

 

Why would he be upset that she was catching up with friends before dinner? I'm sorry, but how would that be anything to be upset over? Should she have blocked off her entire day for him? She told him about prior plans and rescheduled for 1.5 hours later, why would any reasonable person be upset about this? If theyvhad planned for 7pm days in advance and she just slotted her friend in and pushed him over, sure...but with no set time, one is ostensibly free to make other plans early in the evening. This is what most mean by respecting people's time. You don't know them or their life and schedule and there is no rule that if someone you went out with once ambiguously asks for a date on Saturday but doesn't confirm a time, you should assume to block ofd your entire day and night. Reasonable people who respect people's times can assume they may have a life, friends, other things they may do on a weekend and you try to get on their calendar with a specific time in a fair amount of time. If you wait until the day of to lock down the time, it should not be a big deal if your specific time preference clashes with something they were doing before. It should be okay cool, an hour later? No problem.

 

And even so... how would that mean that they then withhold affection and expect her to show it. Folks are saying he is not a mindreader but are posing questions about his behavior that suggest that ES should be the mindreader instead. I'm not saying ES may not have her own insecurities or issues, but when stuff ia mutual it's not that difficult and is hardly a guessing game about maybe I should do this or maybe he is expecting that et, things tend to go a bit more organically.

 

At his point though, it seems they are just not a good match. I say trust your intuition ES. You felt something was off with him and maybe something was. I would caution to balance between your intuition and self-fulfilling prophecies and the way you can do that is by checking the reality of his actions and words against an existing standard of decency and respect that you find acceptable and see if he is blatantly going against those.

Edited June 24, 2016 by MissBee

[katiegrl]

This doesn't compute.

 

Why would he be upset that she was catching up with friends before dinner? I'm sorry, but how would that be anything to be upset over? Should she have blocked off her entire day for him? She told him about prior plans and reschedule for 1.5 hours later, why would any reasonable person be upset about this?

 

 

I agree. Doubt he got turned off because she had plans with friends and pushed it to 8:30.

 

It was other things, like her negative attitude, which had been building for two days because he didn't meet her specific time-frame within which to call and confirm plans.

 

He called 11 HOURS prior, which apparently was too late for her.

 

Fine, she should have just cancelled the date altogether, she wasn't even all that attracted to him anyway.

Edited June 24, 2016 by katiegrl

[Leigh 87]

Yeah, it was probably not because she made plans with friends.

 

Probably more her attitude and body language when she walked in. Again, her resentment had been building for two days... that had to have shown. And he picked it up.... and it turned him off.

 

It was only their second date after all....

 

Unless they had an instant connection on their first date and intense chemistry.... which it doesn't sound like they did (hell, did your read where she referred to him as ugly?).... then him getting turned off by HER aloofness and standoffishness ...while on the date.... was perfectly understandable.

 

If your bf wouldn't have gotten turned off by all that... then bless his heart!

 

But different men will have different reactions...

 

If our dates hadnt flowed and the magic was not there...then yep. Weird or off putting behaviour would have dampened things...

 

Again- my cynical and guarded, man hating vibe HAS stopped suitors- even one guy I did have instant chemistry with! For real! Although he was 1 year separated and I sorta feel he was still .. togther with his wife tbh. So prob for the best LOL...

 

Well with the instant chemistry ME and my partner had...., the fact I was still shagging and about to be flown over to see the Irish guy I was involved with, didnt even stop us.

 

It just felt to good to be together everything else was just white noise lol.

 

We were so.. so so nervous on the first date. Shaking nervous.

 

My bf would have been super put off if I cancelled and acted weird no doubt.

 

And much like ET, I have men issues! I also been rejected by EVERY man I felt I was into. And only seriously crushed on by themen I was NOT into. As a person that is hugely cynicle about love, I DID have massive reservations about my bf. I did not even assume tha he was for real or that he would call me again.

 

As far as I was concerned, he could have ghosted me at any stage! I had zero trust. I no longer trust men implicitly. They have to earn it. So yeah, my situation differs in that: my bf and I just has... smooth as silk and effortless magnitism, despite being supr nervous. I never showed up aloof and weird! ALL early dates ran smoothly.

 

Between you and me... my bf and I had ample undesirable issues. We were just THAT blinded by infatuation that our time together was too surreal to notice.

 

Weird vibes can be overcome in some extreme instances.

 

My bf and I have both bolted and been dissapeared on for a lot less than the weirdness we both witnesses from one another...

[Leigh 87]

I am not disputing that she acted off by cancelling.

 

I have done the EXACT SAME THING--- A guy didnt text for days and day off the date, assuming he had flakd and dissapeared, I texted that I had plans. And men smell needy. These days, pror to my bf, I stopped playing those games abd simply stopped putting stock into early dates to begin with and just didnt mind when men cancelled.

 

I will give u an example of ETs behaviour and relate it to a similar experiene:

 

Met that guy in Germany. He happened to be Aussie, living j

In my area.

After meeting for 34r hrs we parter ways.

He msged me daily from his travels and genuinly seemed to wan to develope a relationship.

I got tired of non obvious signs. I was so cynical snd distrusting of men, due to bad treatment of my exes.

 

I ended up making up that I was interested in a guy at Uni:lmao:

 

So me being desperate ( to find comfort after my ex) I pushed away a dude who seemed lefit very interested.

 

I totaly recognise the OPs behaviour in myself.

 

But.... with my current guy.... I cannot necessarily put it down to our amazing instant magic the fact was, I WAS genuinly detached and not needy or desperate for love to have to happen Asap anymore.

 

Furthermore- I knew how to quash the werd vibes and behaviour by the time I met him. So what if he ghosted, I was half expecting it. However, rather than me being weird about it, I carried on dating othrmers and did not stop my life for my bf. Despite our chemistry.

 

HUGE KEY THING: I would have shot my bf a simple text saying " hey, tonight still on?"

I felt something and wouldnt have hesitated to call or text him, as I just felt strongly that he was into me.....

 

 

 

Who knows if the love at first wite thing we had, made it such that weird behaviour wouldnt have put him off?

 

Maybe the fact tha ET cannot just shrug off eary dating is the sole reason for this?

 

But the cold and aloof behaviour he displayd does make me believe that he was just not smitten either; my bf andI felt too much magic to have sat there all... weird and distant.

I sorta feel that we would have both asked there and then " so what is up?" Rather than be dstant or cold. We were both feeling it so much that we would have wanted answers.

[Eternal Sunshine]

When you told him you had other plans earlier, did you explain that you made them because he didn't confirm and you thought the date was off?

 

Yes I did and he was apologetic for not confirming plans earlier. It didn't seem like he was bothered. Nothing happened in between to warrant the total freezeout.

 

I feel like most of the posts made here are way off base.

[Leigh 87]

Yes I did and he was apologetic for not confirming plans earlier. It didn't seem like he was bothered. Nothing happened in between to warrant the total freezeout.

 

I feel like most of the posts made here are way off base.

 

If he were really feeling it, he would not have been cold and distant....

 

Things tend to flow whe you have the right ingredients.

 

You wouldnt have bee THAT weird on the date to warrant his disinterest.

[katiegrl]

Agree with MissBee, it just wasn't a good match.... for either of you.

 

Next.

[Eternal Sunshine]

This doesn't compute.

 

Why would he be upset that she was catching up with friends before dinner? I'm sorry, but how would that be anything to be upset over? Should she have blocked off her entire day for him? She told him about prior plans and rescheduled for 1.5 hours later, why would any reasonable person be upset about this? If theyvhad planned for 7pm days in advance and she just slotted her friend in and pushed him over, sure...but with no set time, one is ostensibly free to make other plans early in the evening. This is what most mean by respecting people's time. You don't know them or their life and schedule and there is no rule that if someone you went out with once ambiguously asks for a date on Saturday but doesn't confirm a time, you should assume to block ofd your entire day and night. Reasonable people who respect people's times can assume they may have a life, friends, other things they may do on a weekend and you try to get on their calendar with a specific time in a fair amount of time. If you wait until the day of to lock down the time, it should not be a big deal if your specific time preference clashes with something they were doing before. It should be okay cool, an hour later? No problem.

 

And even so... how would that mean that they then withhold affection and expect her to show it. Folks are saying he is not a mindreader but are posing questions about his behavior that suggest that ES should be the mindreader instead. I'm not saying ES may not have her own insecurities or issues, but when stuff ia mutual it's not that difficult and is hardly a guessing game about maybe I should do this or maybe he is expecting that et, things tend to go a bit more organically.

 

At his point though, it seems they are just not a good match. I say trust your intuition ES. You felt something was off with him and maybe something was. I would caution to balance between your intuition and self-fulfilling prophecies and the way you can do that is by checking the reality of his actions and words against an existing standard of decency and respect that you find acceptable and see if he is blatantly going against those.

 

Thanks MissBee.

 

I must say that I am very disappointed at the level of advice in this thread and double standards. Even if someone is upset at moving the date time that warrants him to be icy cold the whole evening? Huh?

 

Despite my own anxieties, the only thing he saw is me moving the date by 1.5 hours because he didn't schedule it up until the morning of. Even when he was unpleasant and barely said 2 words during the evening, I was trying to tell him entertaining stories, be engaging and as fun as you can be in a pretty much 1 way conversation.

 

This is probably one of the most unpleasant dates I have had in a while, mainly because I could sense the complete disconnection from his side from the start but was still supposed to go through the motions of sitting through a 3 course meal.

 

I didn't do anything wrong here, maybe he didn't either but he should have canceled or not contacted me if that's the way he felt. I would have much, much preferred that.

[kendahke]

Still.

 

While my bf would have been taken aback, it wouldnt have made him that aloof snd disinterested.

 

 

On the second date?

[kendahke]

Thanks MissBee.

 

I must say that I am very disappointed at the level of advice in this thread and double standards. Even if someone is upset at moving the date time that warrants him to be icy cold the whole evening? Huh?

 

I'd resent it if someone I'd asked out and set up a date--and who knew exactly what time we had plans:

 

1. doesn't tell me that they need for me to call them the day before to confirm because it's important to them; and

 

2. waits until I call them, instead of calling me first when their plans changed because they knew we had plans--which was their initial complaint--that they've double booked the time we'd agreed to initially. I would surmise that you were playing silly games--which you were--and there was no reason for me to be entertained by your stories. You were there wasting my time.

 

Despite my own anxieties, the only thing he saw

 

don't assume anyone else's perception but your own.

 

T

his is probably one of the most unpleasant dates I have had in a while, mainly because I could sense the complete disconnection from his side from the start but was still supposed to go through the motions of sitting through a 3 course meal.

 

It was unpleasant because you decided a few days ago to be unpleasant yourself.

 

I didn't do anything wrong here,

 

Umm... yeah you did.

 

maybe he didn't either but he should have canceled or not contacted me if that's the way he felt. I would have much, much preferred that.

 

Take responsibility for what you did and then posted about for all of us to read. Again, you're expecting him to read your mind. YOU should have cancelled the date if his not reading your mind was not satisfactory to you. He wasn't the one who was melting down with insecurity and unmet/unexpressed expectations.

[Eternal Sunshine]

Sorry kendahke but your arguments are so illogical that it's a waste of my time to even bother with a proper response.

 

The guy just wasn't feeling it, let's all move on.

[Gaeta]

Sorry kendahke but your arguments are so illogical that it's a waste of my time to even bother with a proper response.

 

The guy just wasn't feeling it, let's all move on.

 

Then there are at least 8 different illogical people that have posted in your thread ES.

 

It's not because we point your short comings that makes us a waste of your time. You should at least show some openness to identify your part in all this because yes, in every situation there are 2 participating players.

 

Like I said earlier. You have a complex, that complex makes you feel too good for these men, you cannot humble yourself to think maybe, just maybe you have played a part is this.

[Maggie888]

I agree that 1) this guy just wasnt all that into her; and 2) what attraction eh did have was completely obliterated by the OPs poor attitude.

 

OP you have a lot of work to due if the goal is a successful relationship. You seem to quick to sabotage, judge and crucify men for not reading your mind or knowing your requirements.

 

I agree you are coming from a place of hostility rather than openness and graciousness as you are courted.

[Redhead14]

this guy just wasn't all that into her -- This may be true. However, it appears that she really did like him and that scared her, therefore, she was trying to sabotage it by finding something to bring a negative focus for her. He's great, he will hurt me, so I want to run before he gets that opportunity by creating an impossible scenario which includes mind-reading by him and her projection of what she thinks might be going on in his head based on other scenarios and experiences or stories she'd heard, etc.

[Redhead14]

Then there are at least 8 different illogical people that have posted in your thread ES.

 

It's not because we point your short comings that makes us a waste of your time. You should at least show some openness to identify your part in all this because yes, in every situation there are 2 participating players.

 

Like I said earlier. You have a complex, that complex makes you feel too good for these men, you cannot humble yourself to think maybe, just maybe you have played a part is this.

 

Then there are at least 8 different illogical people that have posted in your thread ES. -- I've said this before . . . some posters come here looking for people to support their position. When they get a prevailing opinion that contradicts their position, they retreat or focus on the one or two people who share their stance.

 

This is akin to going to 10 doctors until they get to the doctor who gives the diagnosis they want rather than accepting the correct one . . .

[MovingOnIsHard]

I think is rude telling the guy you made plans with your friends on the day of the date, and made him change the reservation date/time. If he went through the effort of making a reservation, surely he was interested in seeing you again?? Thats different from just walking into a restaurant and waiting to be seated--he made the effort to make it as convenient for u as possible! Like many have said, I'm not surprised he was not feeling it with you. If i was him, i'd sense a bit of entitlement on your part.

 

Since OP pretty much dismissed any chance with this guy, I can only suggest the following next time you decide to meet another guy:

 

When deciding a day for a follow-up date, it doesn't hurt to text the day before to confirm details. Like along the lines of "hey, what time are we meeting up tomorrow?". If he doesn't answer, the the go ahead make alternative plans the next day. The onus is on him because he didnt answer back timely. So when he finally texts back on the day of the date, then u can say "sorry i made plans already. U didnt get back to me yesterday so i assumed the dinner was a no-go". To, me, that scenario is more ideal because it shows you made an effort to reach out without sounding needing (no, i refuse to follow certain txting etiquette and like to be direct; dont want any vagueness).

 

If the guy is truly interested, he'd make the reservation and txt you (or call) back the details.

[katiegrl]

I think is rude telling the guy you made plans with your friends on the day of the date, and made him change the reservation date/time. If he went through the effort of making a reservation, surely he was interested in seeing you again?? Thats different from just walking into a restaurant and waiting to be seated--he made the effort to make it as convenient for u as possible! Like many have said, I'm not surprised he was not feeling it with you. If i was him, i'd sense a bit of entitlement on your part.

 

Since OP pretty much dismissed any chance with this guy, I can only suggest the following next time you decide to meet another guy:

 

When deciding a day for a follow-up date, it doesn't hurt to text the day before to confirm details. Like along the lines of "hey, what time are we meeting up tomorrow?". If he doesn't answer, the the go ahead make alternative plans the next day. The onus is on him because he didnt answer back timely. So when he finally texts back on the day of the date, then u can say "sorry i made plans already. U didnt get back to me yesterday so i assumed the dinner was a no-go". To, me, that scenario is more ideal because it shows you made an effort to reach out without sounding needing (no, i refuse to follow certain txting etiquette and like to be direct; dont want any vagueness).

 

If the guy is truly interested, he'd make the reservation and txt you (or call) back the details.

 

+100... I wholeheartedly agree with this! Great post!

[MissBee]

I'd resent it if someone I'd asked out and set up a date--and who knew exactly what time we had plans:

 

1. doesn't tell me that they need for me to call them the day before to confirm because it's important to them; and

 

2. waits until I call them, instead of calling me first when their plans changed because they knew we had plans--which was their initial complaint--that they've double booked the time we'd agreed to initially. I would surmise that you were playing silly games--which you were--and there was no reason for me to be entertained by your stories. You were there wasting my time.

 

 

 

don't assume anyone else's perception but your own.

 

T

 

It was unpleasant because you decided a few days ago to be unpleasant yourself.

 

 

 

Umm... yeah you did.

 

 

 

Take responsibility for what you did and then posted about for all of us to read. Again, you're expecting him to read your mind. YOU should have cancelled the date if his not reading your mind was not satisfactory to you. He wasn't the one who was melting down with insecurity and unmet/unexpressed expectations.

 

I think this is absurd personally.

 

In any event, I don't see the point going round and round with this.

 

ES did nothing wrong, but for argument's sake, let's say she did, this guy then did everything right? No he didn't. Like her, if he was turned off before, why go and sulk the whole night and be passive aggressive while she's trying to make conversation and so on? That's a waste of his time and hers. It's childish. She had her reservations about him but went and actually put effort into behaving like a decent human-being, meanwhile he made no attempts to do so. I've been on bad dates or dates where I quickly realized I didn't like the person, I either cut it short or tried to be pleasant enough and not overtly be disdainful towards them.

 

ES played no games. I don't even think people really understand what this means. Her friend genuinely asked her out...she didn't make this up. Her friend actually did secure specific plans before ol' dude here. She didn't lie or toy around with him about that. They scheduled their date after the friend meet-up and he is cold the whole night while SHE tries to make convo and such....let's not forget the ambivalence he was showing after their first date which is what initially raised ES's spidey senses. It seems as though the whole reason she was even more anxious and adamant about him confirming in a timely manner was because of his ambivalence to begin with.

 

Also ES: for the future, be a bit leery of men who lay it on thick on first dates. It doesn't always mean they are soooo into you and will be reliable or suitable people to date later on. I think part of your spide senses about this guy may have that wrapped up into it as well.

Edited June 24, 2016 by MissBee

[Gaeta]

Her words: I did and he texted that we can have dinner at a <suburb> but will sort out the details later.

 

He gave her his schedule and asked her to pick a night. She did. That's a time.

 

Then he told her he was taking her out to dinner in a suburb.That' a place.

 

She knew her Thursday night was booked with this man to have dinner in a restaurant in a suburb.

 

She knew enough to know she needed to be ready for dinner whether it's 7 or 8 does not matter, he booked her evening. She also knew they were going to a restaurant so she knew how to dress. The only thing missing was direction to the restaurant. When he contacted her with the direction she then learn he had made reservation. Which tells me he had put some thoughts into where to take her and it was a nice place. MacDonald don't take reservation.

[katiegrl]

Oh for cryin out loud... this is getting silly.

 

I agree it's possible this guy was not all that attracted to ES from the get go.... but neither was SHE!!!

 

I mean the way she spoke about him during the two days he had not contacted her.... calling him the ugliest man she's every been with (or words to that effect).... her resentment, etc.... it was clear there was no love lost between these two...

 

Under the circumstances there should NEVER have even been a second date!

 

I agree with ES about one thing... I don't know why he asked her out again .... but then again.... I don't know WHY she accepted!

 

They are a total mismatch -- NEXT!

 

Done.

 

Block delete... move on.