Should I make other plans?

[Gaeta]

I responded and told him that I am catching up with friends but can have dinner later, at 8:30pm or so or to pick another day if that's too late for him. He responded that he rang the restaraunt and changed the booking to 8:30pm.

 

After this date, I am going to do zero initiation and see if he ever contacts me again.

 

 

You what??

 

You already knew he was taking you out to dinner tonight, it was discussed earlier this week. It means you knew you needed to have your hair, make-up and legs done for around dinner time. Why can't you go meet him right after work?

 

If I were this guy I'd be so turned off by hearing you've made plans with friends and want to delay dinner. You're the one screaming 'not interested' and screaming 'I don't respect your time'.

 

Eternal, I have asked 3 times now in this thread: Do you want to meet someone or not? Because all indicates all you are interested in is busting as many balls as you can.

[S2B]

I responded and told him that I am catching up with friends but can have dinner later, at 8:30pm or so or to pick another day if that's too late for him. He responded that he rang the restaraunt and changed the booking to 8:30pm.

 

After this date, I am going to do zero initiation and see if he ever contacts me again.

 

I'm glad you are going ES - but I wish you had phoned him. I think you two are missing opportunities to connect better by texting instead of calling.

 

What is so hard about a real phone call - a live voice?

[katiegrl]

You what??

 

You already knew he was taking you out to dinner tonight, it was discussed earlier this week. It means you knew you needed to have your hair, make-up and legs done for around dinner time. Why can't you go meet him right after work?

 

If I were this guy I'd be so turned off by hearing you've made plans with friends and want to delay dinner. You're the one screaming 'not interested' and screaming 'I don't respect your time'.

 

Eternal, I have asked 3 times now in this thread: Do you want to meet someone or not? Because all indicates all you are interested in is busting as many balls as you can.

 

Not to get down on ES, but she has admitted previously she *prefers* to be alone. Whether it's commitment fears or whatever, she enjoys being alone and not having to be accountable to anyone, including a man.

 

Which is her prerogative of course.

 

But as with all people who feel this way, they struggle between wanting a relationship, but then finding excuses to push it away....

 

When things don't go exactly according to their particular plan, they can be very convincing in their justification for pushing it ... and the man (or woman if roles are reversed) away.

 

As was ES here.... at least for some people on this thread. Deeming him barely interested, rude, disrespectful etc. Even ES herself thinks he is ugly! Or the ugliest guy .....something like that can't remember her exact words.

 

But now the guy has come through.... contacting her early this morning, reserving a table and being very accommodating ....

 

I suspect the exact opposite of what she was hoping, as it sounds like she was looking for reasons/excuses to not like the guy and push him away......

 

JMO based on her history .....

 

(Apologies to ES talking about her in third person).....

Edited June 23, 2016 by katiegrl

[Eternal Sunshine]

Things really went badly tonight.

 

He was cold, didn't touch me, didn't kiss me and barely talked. He didn't even get up to hug me as I walked in, which he did the last time. It's like, every time I doubt my intuition even a little (which strongly told me that this guy is not into me), I am proven that I am right. I am kind of pissed that he even went out with me tonight if that's the way he was going to be.

 

I always remember what my last major ex told me: after being together for a year, a lot of time I picked small fights and had issues with stuff he said or did. He would tell me all the time that I was insecure, that I was exaggerating etc etc. But the day that we broke up, as I was leaving his place, he told me that I had one of the best intuitions that he has seen in anyone. He told me that every single time I was insecure, I was completely right but he didn't want to add "oil to the fire" at the time so he pretended that I was wrong.

 

Guys are actually very easy to read. When they are into you, they are super obvious, it's impossible to miss. They are much simpler to read than women.

 

Anyway, I deleted his number and I am taking a few days off dating before moving on to other prospects.

[sc0316]

Things really went badly tonight.

 

He was cold, didn't touch me, didn't kiss me and barely talked. He didn't even get up to hug me as I walked in, which he did the last time. It's like, every time I doubt my intuition even a little (which strongly told me that this guy is not into me), I am proven that I am right. I am kind of pissed that he even went out with me tonight if that's the way he was going to be.

 

I always remember what my last major ex told me: after being together for a year, a lot of time I picked small fights and had issues with stuff he said or did. He would tell me all the time that I was insecure, that I was exaggerating etc etc. But the day that we broke up, as I was leaving his place, he told me that I had one of the best intuitions that he has seen in anyone. He told me that every single time I was insecure, I was completely right but he didn't want to add "oil to the fire" at the time so he pretended that I was wrong.

 

Guys are actually very easy to read. When they are into you, they are super obvious, it's impossible to miss. They are much simpler to read than women.

 

Anyway, I deleted his number and I am taking a few days off dating before moving on to other prospects.

 

Could it be that he got turned off by your "catching up with friends before dinner"? Maybe HE was expecting YOU to show some affection?

[Gaeta]

ES: one question.

 

How would you feel if the man you had a second date with told you the day of the date to push back dinner or to reshudule it because he is going out with his buddies?

 

This guy was doing perfectly fine till you shoved on his face you didn't care much about the date. He is not the one lacking interest. It's you.

[S2B]

Things really went badly tonight.

 

He was cold, didn't touch me, didn't kiss me and barely talked. He didn't even get up to hug me as I walked in, which he did the last time. It's like, every time I doubt my intuition even a little (which strongly told me that this guy is not into me), I am proven that I am right. I am kind of pissed that he even went out with me tonight if that's the way he was going to be.

 

I always remember what my last major ex told me: after being together for a year, a lot of time I picked small fights and had issues with stuff he said or did. He would tell me all the time that I was insecure, that I was exaggerating etc etc. But the day that we broke up, as I was leaving his place, he told me that I had one of the best intuitions that he has seen in anyone. He told me that every single time I was insecure, I was completely right but he didn't want to add "oil to the fire" at the time so he pretended that I was wrong.

 

Guys are actually very easy to read. When they are into you, they are super obvious, it's impossible to miss. They are much simpler to read than women.

 

Anyway, I deleted his number and I am taking a few days off dating before moving on to other prospects.

 

You get what you give ES. He wasn't giving much effort because you gave little effort.

 

Next time you intend to move or set a time - there isn't one single reason to tell the guy that he's being squeezed into your social calendar.

 

And CALL if you need to change plans. You are creating this scenario for yourself.

 

No - he's not to blame for feeling like he rates 2nd, 3rd or 4th on your list... And he acted appropriately for a guy who was moved down the ladder at the last minute.

[DreamP]

When you told him you had other plans earlier, did you explain that you made them because he didn't confirm and you thought the date was off?

[angel.eyes]

Too bad, it went poorly.

 

You do have great intuition, and your advice to others has been spot on in the past.

 

This would have died at the end of the first date if you hadn't contacted him and told him you were interested in seeing him again. Him not setting a time or place until hours before the actual date was indicative of his ambivalence.

 

Guys who are genuinely interested, don't behave like this IME.

 

Things really went badly tonight.

 

He was cold, didn't touch me, didn't kiss me and barely talked. He didn't even get up to hug me as I walked in, which he did the last time. It's like, every time I doubt my intuition even a little (which strongly told me that this guy is not into me), I am proven that I am right. I am kind of pissed that he even went out with me tonight if that's the way he was going to be.

 

I always remember what my last major ex told me: after being together for a year, a lot of time I picked small fights and had issues with stuff he said or did. He would tell me all the time that I was insecure, that I was exaggerating etc etc. But the day that we broke up, as I was leaving his place, he told me that I had one of the best intuitions that he has seen in anyone. He told me that every single time I was insecure, I was completely right but he didn't want to add "oil to the fire" at the time so he pretended that I was wrong.

 

Guys are actually very easy to read. When they are into you, they are super obvious, it's impossible to miss. They are much simpler to read than women.

 

Anyway, I deleted his number and I am taking a few days off dating before moving on to other prospects.

Edited June 23, 2016 by angel.eyes

[Gaeta]

Too bad, it went poorly.

 

You do have great intuition, and your advice to others has been spot on in the past.

 

This would have died at the end of the first date if you hadn't contacted him and told him you were interested in seeing him again. Him not setting a time or place until hours before the actual date was indicative of his ambivalence.

 

Guys who are genuinely interested, don't behave like this IME.

 

After a 1st date a lady will contact the man to thank him for the date. I am sure he paid for their 1st date. It was only polite of her. A man also need a green light once in a while and by thanking him and letting him know she had enjoyed herself she was giving him a green light.

 

Then he showed great interest by giving her his full agenda of the coming week. She picked a night and he made reservation. He also showed a lot of enthusiasm to see her again. Not the action of a man half interested.

 

The day of the date he contacts her and give her the name of the restaurant. He probably has been looking forward to see her again all week. He probably wanted to text or call her but was afraid to come on too strong so he didn't.

 

So when he gives her the restaurant address he is welcomed with : Sorry but I am going out with my buddies so it will be later or another time!!! If a man did that to any female members on here people would be huffing and puffing through 100 pages.

 

ES does not have intuition, she has a superiority complex (sorry ES I don't say that in a mean way). She is unable to be opened, flexible, understanding, and relaxed about dating. She has a secret set of rules she expects these men to be aware of and to execute. She cannot humble herself and give a guy a fair chance.

[Emilia]

Things really went badly tonight.

 

He was cold, didn't touch me, didn't kiss me and barely talked. He didn't even get up to hug me as I walked in, which he did the last time. It's like, every time I doubt my intuition even a little (which strongly told me that this guy is not into me), I am proven that I am right. I am kind of pissed that he even went out with me tonight if that's the way he was going to be.

 

I always remember what my last major ex told me: after being together for a year, a lot of time I picked small fights and had issues with stuff he said or did. He would tell me all the time that I was insecure, that I was exaggerating etc etc. But the day that we broke up, as I was leaving his place, he told me that I had one of the best intuitions that he has seen in anyone. He told me that every single time I was insecure, I was completely right but he didn't want to add "oil to the fire" at the time so he pretended that I was wrong.

 

Guys are actually very easy to read. When they are into you, they are super obvious, it's impossible to miss. They are much simpler to read than women.

 

Anyway, I deleted his number and I am taking a few days off dating before moving on to other prospects.

I actually think that you are so concerned about a man having 'one over you' that this pre-emptive behaviour sends the wrong vibes.

 

I'm not sure you are aware of your own part in the dynamic that is created. It does indeed seem that you produce little problems and gradually push the other person away.

 

I think somewhere along the line you didn't learn how to build and maintain long term relationships.

[kendahke]

Things really went badly tonight.

 

He was cold, didn't touch me, didn't kiss me and barely talked. He didn't even get up to hug me as I walked in, which he did the last time. It's like, every time I doubt my intuition even a little (which strongly told me that this guy is not into me), I am proven that I am right. I am kind of pissed that he even went out with me tonight if that's the way he was going to be.

 

I always remember what my last major ex told me: after being together for a year, a lot of time I picked small fights and had issues with stuff he said or did. He would tell me all the time that I was insecure, that I was exaggerating etc etc. But the day that we broke up, as I was leaving his place, he told me that I had one of the best intuitions that he has seen in anyone. He told me that every single time I was insecure, I was completely right but he didn't want to add "oil to the fire" at the time so he pretended that I was wrong.

 

Guys are actually very easy to read. When they are into you, they are super obvious, it's impossible to miss. They are much simpler to read than women.

 

Anyway, I deleted his number and I am taking a few days off dating before moving on to other prospects.

 

I think the blame for your bad night can be laid at your feet. You kneecapped yourself. This all could have turned out quite well if you didn't let your insecurity have its head. Now see where it, unchecked, has gotten you. The guy did nothing wrong by what your wrote. AT any time before you parted company on the first date, you could have said that you need confirmation the day before. You didn't. That's on you, not him.

[kendahke]

After a 1st date a lady will contact the man to thank him for the date. I am sure he paid for their 1st date. It was only polite of her. A man also need a green light once in a while and by thanking him and letting him know she had enjoyed herself she was giving him a green light.

 

Then he showed great interest by giving her his full agenda of the coming week. She picked a night and he made reservation. He also showed a lot of enthusiasm to see her again. Not the action of a man half interested.

 

The day of the date he contacts her and give her the name of the restaurant. He probably has been looking forward to see her again all week. He probably wanted to text or call her but was afraid to come on too strong so he didn't.

 

So when he gives her the restaurant address he is welcomed with : Sorry but I am going out with my buddies so it will be later or another time!!! If a man did that to any female members on here people would be huffing and puffing through 100 pages.

 

ES does not have intuition, she has a superiority complex (sorry ES I don't say that in a mean way). She is unable to be opened, flexible, understanding, and relaxed about dating. She has a secret set of rules she expects these men to be aware of and to execute. She cannot humble herself and give a guy a fair chance.

 

^^^^^^this

[katiegrl]

 

Guys who are genuinely interested, don't behave like this IME.

 

And women who are genuinely interested, don't behave the way ES did either.

 

I hate to go against my own gender, but why is this only the man's fault?

 

As Gaeta said, how would ES have felt if SHE had made the dinner reservation and HE pushed it to nearly two hours later saying he was gonna hang with buddies first.

 

Come on now, be fair.

[Art_Critic]

I don't necessarily think what she did was too bad, she did go out and that night too just later..

 

Would I have done that no...

 

I think what you have is a case of you being "not interested".. if the guy had tripped your trigger and made you all gooey inside you would have not rescheduled him.

 

So look at this as your own disinterest

 

I'd bet he noticed how disinterested you were and kinda gave some of it back..

 

Next...

[katiegrl]

 

ES does not have intuition, she has a superiority complex (sorry ES I don't say that in a mean way). She is unable to be opened, flexible, understanding, and relaxed about datingw. She has a secret set of rules she expects these men to be aware of and to execute. She cannot humble herself and give a guy a fair chance.

 

I dunno if it's so much a superiority complex ... it could be though not ruling it out.

 

I see it as more she has a huge fear of (or lack of desire for) relationships, commitment and all that entails. Loss of freedom, not being able to come and go as she pleases, being accountable.... etc etc etc.

 

She prefers to be alone, enjoys her freedom, and is torn between what society wants and expects (she has posted about that before) and what she wants.

 

ES, this has been said before but f*ck what society wants and expects of you or any woman.

 

Be true to yourself. Enjoy your life, enjoy your friends, your family, your job, your students.

 

Forget dating... it just doesn't work for you, you push every guy away. Face it you just don't want any part of it.... which is OKAY!!

 

You do you (as they say).

 

Be happy... enjoy life. Perhaps you will feel differently as you live, learn, evolve.

 

Or maybe not. Whatever you choose though, whether being with a partner, or not, it's OKAY either way!!

 

As long as you stay true to YOURSELF, that is ALL that matters.

 

All this push/pull and back and forth crap isn't serving anyone, including you, any good whatsoever.

Edited June 23, 2016 by katiegrl

[No_Go]

I think it is neither a superiority complex, nor a desire to be alone.

From this and other threads, it appears to stem from a fear of rejection because of a profound disappointment from a past relationship(s). So OP saves herself an eventual rejection by pulling the trigger first, even where it's not granted.

 

I lived through a rejection (from a guy that I've never even been technically dating!) and it took me years to get rid of the idea that 'I just like to be alone and rebel the society'. Thinking back, I was just too disappointed, I thought he will be the love of my life, and the pose 'single&happy' was giving me the so needed validation at the time: 'I'm alone because I WANT it'. Now, years later I'm finally ready not to hide the truth from myself...

 

So I can very well relate to ES experiences, but still... it is not fair to the men that she's dating...

 

I dunno if it's so much a superiority complex ... it could be though not ruling it out.

 

I see it as more she has a huge fear of relationships, commitment and all that entails. Loss of freedom, not being able to come and go as she pleases, being accountable.... etc etc etc.

 

She prefers to be alone, enjoys her freedom, and is torn between what society wants and expects (she has posted about that before) and what she wants.

 

ES, this has been said before but f*ck what society wants and expects of you or any woman.

 

Be true to yourself. Enjoy your life, enjoy your friends. Forget dating... it just doesn't work for you, you push every guy away. Face it you just don't want any part of it.... which is OKAY!!

 

You do you (as they say).

 

Be happy... enjoy life. Perhaps you will feel differently as you live, learn, evolve.

 

Or maybe not. Whatever you choose though, whether being with a partner, or not, it's OKAY either way!!

 

As long as you stay true to YOURSELF, that is ALL that matters.

[katiegrl]

I think it is neither a superiority complex, nor a desire to be alone.

From this and other threads, it appears to stem from a fear of rejection because of a profound disappointment from a past relationship(s). So OP saves herself an eventual rejection by pulling the trigger first, even where it's not granted.

 

I lived through a rejection (from a guy that I've never even been technically dating!) and it took me years to get rid of the idea that 'I just like to be alone and rebel the society'. Thinking back, I was just too disappointed, I thought he will be the love of my life, and the pose 'single&happy' was giving me the so needed validation at the time: 'I'm alone because I WANT it'.

 

Now, years later I'm finally ready not to hide the truth from myself...

So I can very well relate to ES experiences, but still... it is not fair to the men that she's dating...

 

@bolded - after which you DID find love.... right? You did the work, the introspection, the self-analysis and reflection... and came out the other side, finding love with a new man.

 

Unless I have you mixed up with someone else?

 

I have never been through that type of rejection, and hope I never do, so I cannot personally relate but I certainly can empathize and it makes sense.

 

In which case, for anyone experiencing the same thing... do the work needed to work through the issues, and in the meantime, stay away from dating cuz as you said No Go, not fair to the men.

 

Or yourself! It only causes frustration, resentment and possible bitterness toward men and the whole idea of dating in general... for when you are ready.

[DreamP]

It's surprising how people have such strong opinions about this situation. Some made this guy out to be the total bad guy and some a total knight in shining armor. I saw a post saying he was thinking about the date all day. Others said he never would have called back if the OP hadn't initiated. The fact is we don't know. The thing about dating is there is so much uncertainty and often lack of communication. That is why I asked whether the OP explained her reason for not being available earlier.

 

Does the OP have a right to demand a man confirm the date and time in advance. Absolutely. That's not asking for the moon and that doesn't make her have a superiority complex.

 

Did the guy have to confirm the time days in advance. No. Everybody has their own view on timeliness. He assumed that the date was on when OP agreed to meet that date.

 

Basically there was a lack of communication. Each has a different expectation which was not met by the other. That's why I recommended just asking straight up at the beginning. I guess these are just the blunders of dating.

[No_Go]

I did indeed! I'm with my BF now for well over an year, living together and probably we'll step it up some time soon;)

 

The guy that I was talking about was my puppy love, in a sense I was a virgin back then, he played me hard I think to subside the pain from him own divorce. But since then things have changed for me, after two bad experiences (1.5 and 0.5 years respectively), and then I met my BF.

 

I think it is kind of common to be scared by past experiences, but I don't believe in a one-and-done love experiences... Every new person brings a new perspective, is unique and should be appreciated as such, not compared with people that we loved before or have hurt us before... Easy to say!

 

@bolded - after which you DID find love.... right? You did the work, the introspection, the self-analysis and reflection... and came out the other side, finding love with a new man.

are ready.

[Shining One]

Does the OP have a right to demand a man confirm the date and time in advance. Absolutely.

The issue is she didn't demand it. She expected him to read her mind to determine that she required greater than the 11-hour confirmation he provided.

[katiegrl]

The issue is she didn't demand it. She expected him to read her mind to determine that she required greater than the 11-hour confirmation he provided.

 

This is true....

 

Had she expressed to him at the time they made the date.... that she would like him to confirm a day prior .... that would have been totally different.

 

She did not... just expected him to read her mind as SO suggested.

 

What I also don't get is, if she was wondering or felt insecure about him possibly blowing her off.... why couldn't she have sent him a quick text? Or is that chasing? I don't think so but I know many other women would.

 

"Hey, just thought I would touch base about tomorrow. Give me a buz when you get a chance. Looking forward to it!"

 

That shows confidence and a positive attitude.

 

Instead of a "he hasn't confirmed 24 hour prior, he must not be into me, screw him, he's rude and disrespectful" attitude.

 

My guess is this guy sensed your negativity ES, and that is why he acted turned off on the date.

Edited June 23, 2016 by katiegrl

[Gaeta]

My guess is this guy sensed your negativity ES, and that is why he acted turned off on the date.

 

And when she got to the date last night I wonder what was her demeanor. She had built up resentment for 48 hours so she didn't get there all happy and bubbly.

 

I don't understand these restrictions women put on themselves at beginning. What was so wrong in contacting him. Afraid to appear as she was chasing him? If you contact a man to confirm plans you only appear organized, not needy.

 

How do we say? We teach others how to treat us? Well teaching others is calling them up to clarify plans because your time is precious and you like planning ahead.

 

First time boyfriend missed dinner time I told him, hon if you are very late for dinner please let me know, there are other things I can do, places I can go to, instead of waiting. Lesson #1 on how I manage my time.

[Emilia]

It's surprising how people have such strong opinions about this situation. Some made this guy out to be the total bad guy and some a total knight in shining armor. I saw a post saying he was thinking about the date all day. Others said he never would have called back if the OP hadn't initiated. The fact is we don't know. The thing about dating is there is so much uncertainty and often lack of communication. That is why I asked whether the OP explained her reason for not being available earlier.

 

Does the OP have a right to demand a man confirm the date and time in advance. Absolutely. That's not asking for the moon and that doesn't make her have a superiority complex.

 

Did the guy have to confirm the time days in advance. No. Everybody has their own view on timeliness. He assumed that the date was on when OP agreed to meet that date.

 

Basically there was a lack of communication. Each has a different expectation which was not met by the other. That's why I recommended just asking straight up at the beginning. I guess these are just the blunders of dating.

The OP has been consistently posting along the same lines here for years. You can look at her threads.

[joseb]

I'm willing to bet her body language going in was very telling, and as the guy I would probably already be on alert after the "meeting friends" incident.

 

Look, it's also possible that the guy wasn't super keen. But it was only a couple of dates.

 

I think OP maybe take a break from dating for a bit.

Are you really looking for a relationship?

 

I'm not. Not everyone is.