Is it really healthy to know everything about the A if reconciling?

[JLeaks3]

Everyone is different and people will work through reconciliation in different ways. I tend to lean more on letting the BS lead where that path goes. If the BS is such that they need all the information and details about the A in order to move forward in R, then the WS should do everything in their power to give them that even if it's painful to the WS to have to retell and relive the details. I don't believe that it is a form of protecting the BS as much as it is self-preservation.

 

If the BS indicates that they don't want the details, then good for the WS. They can move towards R without having to rehash everything in the A. Personally, I am someone who needs the whole truth. How can I give forgiveness, if I don't know what exactly I'm forgiving?

 

There is also a powerful thing for the CONFESSOR to have to actually go through the process of confessing. It's an act of vulnerability and faith in the love of the BS that says, "I know this will hurt you deeply, but I have faith that you love me and that love is powerful enough to still love me even when I show you my full self in all my faults."

 

It's interesting what people are willing to allow in their own marriages, and I think this is probably why so many boundaries are breeched. When a spouse basically says, "I understand there are certain details in our marriage that only you know and I don't need to know them" it kind of opens the door to keeping secrets from your spouse, and somehow that's okay. I am not of this camp. When I married my husband, we are to be one. That means there is nothing that should be kept from the other. It's the lies that fester, that creates cracks in the foundation.

[katielee]

this ^^^

 

but this, "My wife wisely did not want to know the sexual details, either."

implies that those of us who wanted to know the details are stupid. but these are typical of your posts.

[wmacbride]

And how do you Liam know that someone else's betrayed spouse is berating them?

 

There is a difference in expecting the truth and expecting honesty and expecting appropriate behavior and berating.

 

My husband holds me accountable for my actions.. He does not sugar coat it and pretend that I acted out because he was a jerk...

 

It doesn't matter what his behavior was at the time of my betrayal...I made my choice to cheat and there were other options.

 

I proved that I was incapable of making good decisions that not only affected me but also affected him.

 

He never berated me... But I am certainly aware of what he thinks about my actions.

 

Had he rolled over and played dead I am not sure we would still be together. I am glad he had enough self respect to hold me accountable.

 

This is an attitude I have a lot of respect for. An experience you learned from and didn't blame your bs for your choices.

[wmacbride]

Lobe: The poster's original post and questions asked:

 

 

If a couple is really wanting to work out their marriage & get to the bottom of the A, do BS really think it's healthy to know every single detail, if A is truly over?

 

My H & I got into this discussion last night & he says he regrets asking me questions about the sex part of the A, that he was in shock & allowed his ego to ask questions that he never really wanted to hear the answers to. I never asked for details on anything bc I didn't care. Once I wanted to work on our marriage i didn't care about the details of the A, just that we decided to work on it.

 

If a BS is constantly interrogating the spouse like a Nazi commandant, that is not a healthy need to know. That is abuse and a thinly disguised attempt to try to induce guilt or shame. ...or maybe something else, but nothing healthy.

 

It has nothing to do with accountability.

 

Accountability is admitting to the affair. That's it.

 

We seem to have traveled from the deluded to the bizarre.

[wmacbride]

My wife wisely did not want to know the sexual details, either.

 

Very true.

 

Sadly the inability for the BS to see their own faults is likely why so many reconciliations fail.

 

If my wife were not able to see her faults clearly, I would have preferred to divorce.

 

Also, for the BSs who say they no longer love or respect their WS the same way, after an affair......... then why stay married?

 

The advice on loveshack from most BSs is always this big push for someone to divorce if they are unhappy rather than having an affair.

 

They say it's the right thing to do.

 

Well, then if the BS is so unhappy and they no longer love or respect their WS, then why do they not rally themselves to divorce rather than staying and browbeating the WS forever.

 

It's odd and hypocritical.

 

Emotionally abusing a WS by constantly berating them and attempting to make them feel bad about themselves is just as bad as cheating, IMO.

 

Basic psychology does not encourage shaming or berating in a healthy relationship. In fact, doing so dooms a relationship to failure.

 

If my wife were doing that, I would be gone in a nano-second.

 

 

And yet you continue to shame your wife by pointing out how you think the A was her fault, how she was the one who failed and how wonderful it is for her that you have been gracious enough to stay with her.

 

If an ws needs a bs to "shame" them into feeling bad about an A, then they are, well, in need of some serious help. Most ws who love their spouse already feel shame or at least a sense of sorrow that they hurt their bs in that way. It's even worse if it was planned and well thought out ahead of time, as some A's are.

 

this incredibly shallow inability to understand why a bs might want to know the borders of the A and what went on in it is quite sad, but it;s just art of the whole need to blameshift the responsibility for the A onto the bs .

[Zenstudent]

A ws sneak around and hide their actions, because they want to control the outcome and don't wanna face the consequences of their actions.

 

Why would that be any different when they run out of luck and it's time to pay the Piper?

 

In answer to op: I want to know the details because I like to know the truth about my life - to have maximum information when I make choices. Some people are not like that, they act on gut feelings and intuition and therefore in less need of info. Jmo.

[Lobe]

There is no timetable on healing... As a matter of fact it continues on a daily basis.

 

For me I stopped asking when he proved that he would answer. For us, it took about 3 months for him to realize that I wasn't going to lose my sh*t if he would just tell the damned truth. It wasn't about the gory details it was about trusting that he wasn't living in the immature harmless teenage fantasy bubble anymore. Grown ups say, "We had intimate sexual contact," not, "We kind of felt each other up sometimes *giggle teehee*..."

 

Healing is a different process for all of us. Whether the details are helpful or hurtful, is up to the BS to decide what they want to handle, which includes owning regrets for asking things you may wish you could unhear during those ugly first days. While it takes two to break a marriage (since Liam1 keeps pointing out that the BS is at fault too) it only takes one to have an affair, at which the WS loses the right to make unilateral decisions about what the BS gets to know or not know, for their own good or otherwise.

[Mrs. John Adams]

For me I stopped asking when he proved that he would answer. For us, it took about 3 months for him to realize that I wasn't going to lose my sh*t if he would just tell the damned truth. It wasn't about the gory details it was about trusting that he wasn't living in the immature harmless teenage fantasy bubble anymore. Grown ups say, "We had intimate sexual contact," not, "We kind of felt each other up sometimes *giggle teehee*..."

 

Healing is a different process for all of us. Whether the details are helpful or hurtful, is up to the BS to decide what they want to handle, which includes owning regrets for asking things you may wish you could unhear during those ugly first days. While it takes two to break a marriage (since Liam1 keeps pointing out that the BS is at fault too) it only takes one to have an affair, at which the WS loses the right to make unilateral decisions about what the BS gets to know or not know, for their own good or otherwise.

 

You are doing so well ... But you have only just begun....

 

Years from now you may feel the need to ask a question... And you need to know that option is still open to you

[Mrs. John Adams]

Lobe: The poster's original post and questions asked:

 

 

If a couple is really wanting to work out their marriage & get to the bottom of the A, do BS really think it's healthy to know every single detail, if A is truly over?

 

My H & I got into this discussion last night & he says he regrets asking me questions about the sex part of the A, that he was in shock & allowed his ego to ask questions that he never really wanted to hear the answers to. I never asked for details on anything bc I didn't care. Once I wanted to work on our marriage i didn't care about the details of the A, just that we decided to work on it.

 

If a BS is constantly interrogating the spouse like a Nazi commandant, that is not a healthy need to know. That is abuse and a thinly disguised attempt to try to induce guilt or shame. ...or maybe something else, but nothing healthy.

 

It has nothing to do with accountability.

 

Accountability is admitting to the affair. That's it.

 

A nazi huh?

 

What is it you picture in other relationships?

 

Do you think my husband tied me to a chair and pulled out my fingernails to tell him the truth? Or beat me unmercifully? Or deprived me of food and water?

 

Good grief...

[S2B]

There is NO way to know all the details of the affair.

 

You can't know what the other TWO people were thinking at all times.

 

You will know what one person may choose to tell - assuming that is THEIR truth...but that's a BIG assumption knowing full well every cheater lies - directly or indirectly - including lies by omission.

 

So NO - no way to ever figure you get all their truth.

[JohnAdams]

I don't think you ever know all of the details about an affair, but, you may certainly learn more than you wanted to know.

 

 

Also, there are many details other than the sexual details that can be just as stinging.

[Mrs. John Adams]

There is NO way to know all the details of the affair.

 

You can't know what the other TWO people were thinking at all times.

 

You will know what one person may choose to tell - assuming that is THEIR truth...but that's a BIG assumption knowing full well every cheater lies - directly or indirectly - including lies by omission.

 

So NO - no way to ever figure you get all their truth.

 

You are absolutely right... You are trusting that the one person who absolutely lied to you whether bold faced or by omission is now telling you the truth.

 

Maybe as time goes on you may find out more of the truth... But to ever think you know 100% is ridiculous.

 

On the other hand completely withholding the truth is certainly continuing to live a lie....and there are those who are very good at lying. I am not one of those people. I say what I think.

 

I do think that most waywards who confess first.. Before the betrayed discovering... Tend to be more forthcoming. I mean .. If you are going to tell.. You may as well tell it all.

 

I can see those waywards whose affairs were discovered may be more reluctant to reveal.

 

But certainly not in all cases.

[ladydesigner]

This is just my opinion, but I wonder if the reason some ws don't tell is that, quite frankly, it's uncomfortable to do so.

 

Telling the details would force them to face what they have done, in concrete terms. While some ws do this willingly, for others, it's much more difficult.

 

for these ws, they can't handle it if they have to look their bs in the eye while they admit the details of something that hurt them so much. They just aren't in a place yet where they can be hit , head on, with the fallout of their choices.

 

Oh absolutely I honestly wanted to see how uncomfortable it made my WH.

[ladydesigner]

Sadly the inability for the BS to see their own faults is likely why so many reconciliations fail.

 

 

Liam this part doesn't come until waaaaaaaaay later after the A has been dealt with.

[ladydesigner]

There's a big difference between holding your WS accountable and berating them, and if being asked to reveal the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth makes the WS feel bad about themselves then we are back to the WS trickling to protect themselves and NOT the BS...

R is not easy and I feel there is no single path to salvation, though, and I'm glad you and your wife are able to meet in the middle and are working things out.

 

 

Thank you there is BIG difference unfortunately many WS's feel like this is a case of berating too because THEY cannot handle what THEY did. Give me an effing break

[Lobe]

Oh absolutely I honestly wanted to see how uncomfortable it made my WH.

 

The more he talked openly about the details, the easier it was for me to piece the story together and the faster Fantasyland became putrefied. I absolutely needed to see the ivory tower he had put her in crumble because he tore it down, not because it was left to grow over like an abandoned castle in a fairytale. It had nothing to do with me actively shaming him - whatever shame he felt was a result of his actions and behaviours.

 

I think it was a healing experience for both WH and me. It was a major step in rebuilding our trust.

 

MJA - I still throw out the occasional question. He answers right away, calmly, and I say oh, OK. Considering we started off with him refusing to answer or YELLING his answers at me, we've come a long way. And like you said, we know we have a long way to go still - MC this week should be interesting.

[Mrs. John Adams]

The more he talked openly about the details, the easier it was for me to piece the story together and the faster Fantasyland became putrefied. I absolutely needed to see the ivory tower he had put her in crumble because he tore it down, not because it was left to grow over like an abandoned castle in a fairytale. It had nothing to do with me actively shaming him - whatever shame he felt was a result of his actions and behaviours.

 

I think it was a healing experience for both WH and me. It was a major step in rebuilding our trust.

 

MJA - I still throw out the occasional question. He answers right away, calmly, and I say oh, OK. Considering we started off with him refusing to answer or YELLING his answers at me, we've come a long way. And like you said, we know we have a long way to go still - MC this week should be interesting.

 

One day at a time.. One step at a time

 

Forever... But the journey is worth it .. Well as long as he doesn't pull out my fingernails and accepts his share of the blame:mad::sick: she said tongue in cheek

[Lobe]

Sadly the inability for the BS to see their own faults is likely why so many reconciliations fail.

 

The BS's faults aren't the cause of the affair, though. The cause of the problems inside the marriage is a joint effort in not communicating and working together, whereas the affair itself is the fault of the person who goes outside of the marriage.

 

Liam this part doesn't come until waaaaaaaaay later after the A has been dealt with.

 

Our situation is a bit different. My WH had convinced himself that if I had been a better wife then he wouldn't have had the affair. He justified his actions because of unmet needs that he had not expressed to me. The sh*tty thing was, I not only believed him that it was my fault, but apologized for making him do bad things and begged him to take me back. I spent months grovelling at his feet, thanking him for giving me a second chance, and physically and emotionally degrading myself in a marathon effort to be more like the xOW. When Fantasyland finally began to crumble, he started thanking me for taking him back and begged me to stop blaming myself for his selfishness.

 

***edited to add: Yes, I am in IC... lots and lots of IC lol

[S2B]

The BS's faults aren't the cause of the affair, though. The cause of the problems inside the marriage is a joint effort in not communicating and working together, whereas the affair itself is the fault of the person who goes outside of the marriage.

 

 

 

Our situation is a bit different. My WH had convinced himself that if I had been a better wife then he wouldn't have had the affair. He justified his actions because of unmet needs that he had not expressed to me. The sh*tty thing was, I not only believed him that it was my fault, but apologized for making him do bad things and begged him to take me back. I spent months grovelling at his feet, thanking him for giving me a second chance, and physically and emotionally degrading myself in a marathon effort to be more like the xOW. When Fantasyland finally began to crumble, he started thanking me for taking him back and begged me to stop blaming myself for his selfishness.

 

***edited to add: Yes, I am in IC... lots and lots of IC lol

 

Knowing your H blamed you for HIS actions when he never expressed his dissatisfaction = a man who doesn't intend to be responsible himself for how HE participated...and that is just the epitome of crappy of him.

 

There's NO way to reconcile when the person isn't willing to be responsible for their own actions.

[wmacbride]

This again, is just my out there opinion, but the honesty can be helpful to both spouses.

 

for the bs, they have their questions answered. While they may never have all the information, at least, they have a start.

 

The second part is where many my disagree with me.

 

I'm talking now about couples who stayed together and who are well on their way to healing from the A.

 

In my expeirnce, most remorseful ws are , at heart, honest people. while they may have engaged in very hurtful behavior, that is not who they are, deep down. They need to heal as well from the A. It often trashes their self image and esteem, and they need to recover and find that they are still honest and worthy of their bs love. As my H explained it to me, to his way of thinking, he wnated to feel like he had earned his way back into our marriage through honesty and small but constant acts of love. Part of that was answering questions I had and helping me understand what had happened. My mind doesn't work the way his did, so it took me a long time to understand his thought process, and tbh, part of me still doesn't.

 

The post A discussions, for however long they happen ( and that can be until "death do us part") can provide them an opportunity for honesty, in so far as the bs wants that honesty. It also provides further opportunity for the relationship, and the two individuals who comprise it, to continue healing and growing.

 

The bs is certainly in a position to guide their portion fo the process.

 

now that I have expressed what many will find complete nonsense...time to sign off

[Lobe]

There's NO way to reconcile when the person isn't willing to be responsible for their own actions.

 

It was a super crappy period in the R. Hubby gets it now...

 

When the BS or WS either accepts all or none of the blame, balance can't be restored. It's when there is joint accountability for the marital problems and a joint effort to come up with solutions that R is successful.

[JohnAdams]

Life is a continual learning experience. A discussion about an affair is an opportunity to learn more about your spouse. Through this learning experience both in the marriage are better aware of what happened and what steps need to be taken to ensure this never happens again. To bury it and not understand history just raises the chance of repeating history.

[Whoknew30]

You cannot predict how anyone is going to react in any given situation. Period.

 

We are all wired differently and respond differently.

 

I cannot even predict how I might react to something myself. When my husband had his affair...my reaction surprised me. I think within myself I felt I deserved it for what I had done to him.

 

When I committed adultery...his reaction surprised me....I thought he would immediately divorce me.

 

We both chose to stay.

 

My husband is quiet...he only gave me the details I asked for. I am a talker....I spilled my guts.

 

I told too much....and I cannot take back all the details I gave.

 

This thread has given much advice.....but the feeling I am getting here is from folks who have had time to think about and evaluate their infidelity situations. The responses are contrived...because hind sight is always 20/20.

 

But when you are in the moment..chances are you have never thought about how you might respond or react. You probably have not read any books on the subject. You probably have not discussed it with a therapist.

 

You don't know how much to tell...or what to tell...or how to tell it. Your life is out of control and you are trying to reel it back in.

 

I was not thinking clearly...which is how I allowed myself to be in this situation to begin with. So I certainly was not thinking clearly when I confessed. I certainly did not think about "how" to do it and plot and plan the best way.

 

I simply told the truth. I told too much....and I cannot undo it....just like I cannot undo what I did to begin with.

 

My husband was suicidal for many years....I knew he was fragile...and yes it would have been my fault had he succeeded to take his life. But it would not have been because I told him...or because I told him too much.

 

It would have been because I cheated in the first place. Let's not lose sight of the TRUE problem here. The infidelity...the choice to cheat is the real issue. Not whether or not we told the truth or told too much when we confessed.

 

I agree to a point. This is why when someone goes into a therapist they acces the situation. That's all I'm saying, professionally (even when disagreed with on here) they do weigh how a BS is before they advise on how someone should proceed. Ive been to 2 MC & 3 priests, not one of them ever advised either one of us to just blurt out truth on anything until knowing our dynamic & or speaking with each other one on one first to access. I also went to school for medical & you definitely have to take classes on how & should you give life changing news. news

[Mrs. John Adams]

I agree to a point. This is why when someone goes into a therapist they acces the situation. That's all I'm saying, professionally (even when disagreed with on here) they do weigh how a BS is before they advise on how someone should proceed. Ive been to 2 MC & 3 priests, not one of them ever advised either one of us to just blurt out truth on anything until knowing our dynamic & or speaking with each other one on one first to access. I also went to school for medical & you definitely have to take classes on how & should you give life changing news. news

 

When you confess....when I confessed....I had not gone to a therapist...I had not read any books.....I had not talked about it with anyone.

 

I simply....confessed.

 

Maybe when you had your affair...you were more PREPARED on how to handle your confession.

 

I wasn't prepared at all. I spilled my guts. If i had it to do over would i still spill my guts? well since I now have hindsight...I wouldn't have had an affair to begin with.

 

There is a big difference in looking back on things and how you think you should have reacted than when you are in the moment.

 

I was in the moment...fresh out of a betrayal to my husband...I was scared and frightened...I did not "plan" anything...especially my confession.

[katielee]

and no BS knows how they will react either. To prejudge how it's going to shake out is more unfairness.