Is it really healthy to know everything about the A if reconciling?

[road]

The problem that I can see with your posts (and I have not been here very long) is that you reconciiled with your wife who you dont trust so there is no true reconciliation there. You also seem very angry (can understand that, but its been decades so ?). You just seem to have swept all of this under a rug for the sake of something (sorry I dont know your backstory) but there is nothing that can justify it. Thus why you are here

 

 

If one understands the reason of this thread then they would understand Drifters position and why the full truth must come out or recovery just becomes partial.

[road]

do BS really think it's healthy to know every single detail, if A is truly over?

 

 

 

As has been said in this thread; BS people are different and so the answer is not a one fit all situations. However, I can tell my story. I did not ask nor have I wanted to know ‘...every single detail". The one big one I did want to know is did you betray me, reject me, and replace me with another man? I finally got the answer and it was yes. That was enough for me to make up my mind what I was going to do; I did not need additional detail. I was going to concentrate mostly on me and my children and protect what I had as much as I could. I divorced her but she would not leave and I was not going to kick my children’s mother to the street.

 

 

She stayed and proved with actions for over 4 years that she was remorseful and so I remarried her. I do not want to know all the details because the one detail that was by far the deciding factor was that she put me in 3rd or 4 places in her life. I really like what Mrs. JA said because it really hits the nail on the head; she said

 

By Mrs JA

How do you say you "love" someone and yet do something to destroy them? You love yourself more. It is truly that simple. I loved me more....than I loved John.

 

 

I never blamed the OM I blamed my wife and she had no excuse. She made the commitment to me but the OM did not. There are ten million men that will bang your wife if she lets them. I am not going to fight 10 million men and none of them pledged to be loyal to me and to love me. They are just like a male dog looking for a female dog in heat.

 

 

I have no gross details that torment me I just have to adjust to the knowledge that my wife’s loyalty and commitment to me is not 100%. That is a tough pill to swallow but that is life and it has taught me something. That something is that you can never put all your trust and faith in your spouse to always do what is best for you; you have to become self-sufficient to some degree.

 

 

 

You got the truth you needed this is why you have moved forward.

 

 

Every BH is different in their level of truth that they need to know.

 

 

If you had not gotten to the level of truth that you needed there would be major problems in your marriage now.

Edited June 19, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Edit quote to remove formatting

[wmacbride]

The difference between knowing the details of those who came before or after the marriage is that they weren't during the marriage. As I said before, it's a very individual thing. I needed my WH, who spent weeks pining for his xOW and making me feel like sh*t, to stop making it sound romantic and innocent. I needed him to break the spell he had woven about how what had happened was a romantic tragedy, an unfortunate mishap in the space-time continuum.

 

For some, the mind-movies of sex are hard. For me, the sex part was a cakewalk - I shudder more imagining him holding her close and rocking her in his arms while whispering how desperately he loves her and will miss her while he's stuck at home with the old ball and chain. Barf.

 

Bottom line is, when it comes to disclosing the details, the BS has to be the one who leads that conversation. Always.

 

I would tend to agree with this.

The problem is that a bs , when they first find out about the A, may be asking questions blindly and out of desperation, trying to find the borders of the A.

 

Whether they can handle in formation or not? Who's to say? it's an individual thing?

 

Having had friends in this situation who were asking me for advice, i told th BH to write down Any questions he might have. Take his time, and spend several days doing to. At the end of that, take a look at the list and see if it still stands. If it does, those are answers he needs. Any questions he struck off were probably things he really want to know.

[katielee]

What's that saying... "Anything that could be destroyed by the truth should be."

[Lobe]

What's that saying... "Anything that could be destroyed by the truth should be."

 

I've not heard this saying before but yes... yes it should... d-day was my hulk-smash. WH telling me he fisted the OW instead of saying they "touched each other intimately" was his hulk-smash. A spade is a spade.

[road]

I've not heard this saying before but yes... yes it should... d-day was my hulk-smash. WH telling me he fisted the OW instead of saying they "touched each other intimately" was his hulk-smash. A spade is a spade.

 

 

 

 

There is telling the truth and there is just being brutal.

 

 

Always best to ask for info by layers

 

 

Did you touch? Yes.

Where did you touch? Genitals.

How did you touch her? Fingers and hand.

Did you use your whole hand at once? Yes.

[Lobe]

There is telling the truth and there is just being brutal

 

Every BS is different, every couple is different. Whether he was lying to protect himself, his xOW, or me, the was lying.

[Lobe]

There is telling the truth and there is just being brutal.

 

 

Always best to ask for info by layers

 

 

Did you touch? Yes.

Where did you touch? Genitals.

How did you touch her? Fingers and hand.

Did you use your whole hand at once? Yes.

 

After stewing on this...

 

This was a trigger for me - this was trickle truth in our house...

[understand50]

I think in the end it comes down to knowing enough details, to know what happened, and then if reconciling, forgiving.

 

IE: Am I forgiving what I think happened, or some half truth, made up story. In my own case, my wife's first story was "I got drunk, and forgot myself, and was taken advanage of" This was the "story", I accepted for 25 plus years, until with her other issues of lying and over spending I started questioning everything. I found out, and then had to confront her with the "real" story. "I took a bet, that I could F**K this guy and won it". As she had been faithful for the 25 plus years, my forgiveness held, but the real truth would have been better from her, not something I found out later.

 

Too many times it seems that the WS, gives a story in the best possible light, and the BS is kept wondering, because the story did not make sense, or things keep "popping" up. I think in the long run this is just keeps the pain alive, as you keep wondering. The betrayal is painful enough, but the coverup keeps everything going.

 

For Mrs JA, I know you state you told John too much, and maybe you did, but I would also say that you trusting him to tell him all, in the end may have been what really saved your marriage. John, while being hurt, at least knew, you were telling him everything, and he did not have to wonder. He took you back with your worst, and you had the knowledge that nothing else could come out. Abigail, you did not have to continue to lye. You both could face what happened and make clear decisions. I think John, would have suffered the same, if you had not been so open. What depressed him, was the betrayal. At least he did not have to wonder what had happened.

 

merrmeade, is another example, but in the the sense that she never really got everything she needed. She had to go more on faith, that this was all, and that nothing else would come out. I wonder if she would have traded places with John, just once, and heard all she needed, just once. My two cents on that.

 

Another thought, for those who think that by not telling everything they are sparing the BS pain and hurt. The pain started when you betrayed them, not giving details, just adds and extends this pain. Lets be fair, it is not to their benefit, you just do not want to be seen in your true light. Answer their questions, volunteer information when they go off track, so they know what really happened. How you deal with this, show if you are "a good person, who did a bad thing" or "are a self centered person, doing all to cover their own ass, and hence evil." Let them know what they are forgiving in full so they may at lest rest easy in their mind they made an informed decision.

 

 

So I am in the camp that the BS should get all that they need to know, to forgive what happened. Getting only half of the story, or getting trickal truthed, is much worse. The BS must know what they are forgiving, and have a clear idea of what happened, and why. In the end not knowing is the worse, then knowing too much.

 

My two cents......

[JohnAdams]

The BS is certainly entitled to have their questions answered honestly.

 

 

Through the process, I learned several things; do not ask questions that you do not want the answer to, the answers are almost always worse than what you expected, you can never unhear the answers, you will likely have mind movies the rest of your life.

 

 

I honestly know nothing about my wife's affair except what she told me. I did not "catch" her, no one that was aware ever told me, no letters, e-mails, text, etc.

 

 

I actually asked very few questions. Initially, she volunteered that there was another man. Surprisingly, it did not have a significant impact on me. Thinking I knew my wife, I thought perhaps she had a cup of coffee and confiding in someone or at the most had lunch with him. Three weeks later I was hit with a bad thought on the way home, so when I got home, just to clarify I thought I would ask a question on what I thought was the worst scenario. Somewhat embarrassed, I said I want to ask a question, and do not want to offend you, but did you F... him. Her answer was, I do not want to answer after which I said omg, you did. She then said yes, but only once, I said it could have been a hundred times, it is the same result. After which she poured out the details, I only asked clarifying questions. She would describe something that did not make sense, and I would say, I don't understand, she would then fill in the details. This happened on several "things" I did not understand, so I would seek clarity, and each answer was worse than I could have ever imagined. So, yes, I got more answers than I bargained for, but, as painful as it was, it was the truth. So, yes, I knew what I was forgiving, but, the consequences were a lifetime of mind movies.

[drifter777]

The problem that I can see with your posts (and I have not been here very long) is that you reconciiled with your wife who you dont trust so there is no true reconciliation there. You also seem very angry (can understand that, but its been decades so ?). You just seem to have swept all of this under a rug for the sake of something (sorry I dont know your backstory) but there is nothing that can justify it. Thus why you are here

And your point?

[ladydesigner]

For me the most important reason that I wanted every single detail was to test her for lies. She has always obviously held things back so I know she is still lying about a lot of things. If she was truly open and honest I would have more confidence in her when she says that she hasn't cheated more than I know about. It's the WS being remorseful enough to be completely honest and transparent about everything that can make it possible to begin to rebuild a modicum of trust.

 

Yes ^^^ this and he failed!

 

It is to test for lies. I had proof black in white in my hands and watched my WH lie right to my face. When I showed him all of his deleted texts to MOW on many pages of printed paper he changed his tune, but nonetheless proved to be a liar.

[dichotomy]

Its my experience that in 80% of cases, the W.S. is NEVER going to share all the details - even if asked for the details. The W.S. is going to hide or minimize or refuse.

 

So most B.S. just have to decide what to assume. Me - I assume the worst, better to decide from there.

[Liam1]

Is it arrogance or just being secure? I was the same way bc I'm just really secure but my H is not, he can be extremely insecure, which is why we handle things differently.

 

I think this is a good point. A person that is logical likely knows that the spouse most likely did everything they do with them and maybe some things the spouse refuses to do. It is just logical.

 

When my fiance had an affair, it did not ask any questions about her sex life with the affair partner. I mean to me it was obvious that they had sex. There were most likely a lot of cutesy things she said and did with me that she did with him, and who knows what else.

 

I never asked her about her sex life with her former boyfriends, so her sex life with the affair partner was of no interest to me, either.

 

But as others have said, everyone is different and likely has their reason for needing to know all the salacious details.

 

As for trickle truth or lying IF those occurred at all....and they do not always occur, IMO, people are telling the truth when they say they trickle truth to prevent further pain to the spouse.

 

Once the affair is out in the open, why trickle truth accept to prevent further pain to the spouse.

[purplesorrow]

I think this is a good point. A person that is logical likely knows that the spouse most likely did everything they do with them and maybe some things the spouse refuses to do. It is just logical.

 

When my fiance had an affair, it did not ask any questions about her sex life with the affair partner. I mean to me it was obvious that they had sex. There were most likely a lot of cutesy things she said and did with me that she did with him, and who knows what else.

 

I never asked her about her sex life with her former boyfriends, so her sex life with the affair partner was of no interest to me, either.

 

But as others have said, everyone is different and likely has their reason for needing to know all the salacious details.

 

As for trickle truth or lying IF those occurred at all....and they do not always occur, IMO, people are telling the truth when they say they trickle truth to prevent further pain to the spouse.

 

Once the affair is out in the open, why trickle truth accept to prevent further pain to the spouse.

The trickle truth is to save the ws. No way I believed he was suddenly concerned about my feelings and well being after he had been cheating. He didn't want consequences for his actions.

[Lobe]

The trickle truth is to save the ws. No way I believed he was suddenly concerned about my feelings and well being after he had been cheating. He didn't want consequences for his actions.

 

Yup - he wasn't trickling to protect me, it was to protect him from having to say out loud the things he had done.

[road]

After stewing on this...

 

This was a trigger for me - this was trickle truth in our house...

 

 

 

 

That is not trickle truthing. That is letting the BS tread carefully with questioning to prevent them from hearing more than they wanted to hear. Once told it can never be unheard.

 

 

So the BS protects themselves. The BS may think they have to know what positions they had sex.

 

 

Though by careful questioning after hearing they had intercourse they may not want to know how many times, or after the number of times they may no longer want to know what positions.

 

 

The WS is not trickle truthing at all they are just answering their BS's focused questions.

 

 

The WS is letting the BS control the rate/depth of information to be revealed.

 

 

Trickle truthing is when the BS says did you have sex and the WS says we just kissed. Then a month later admits to just oral, then months later sex but it was just once and a condom was used. Eventually all the lies get exposed.

[road]

The BS is certainly entitled to have their questions answered honestly.

 

 

Through the process, I learned several things; do not ask questions that you do not want the answer to, the answers are almost always worse than what you expected, you can never unhear the answers, you will likely have mind movies the rest of your life.

 

 

I honestly know nothing about my wife's affair except what she told me. I did not "catch" her, no one that was aware ever told me, no letters, e-mails, text, etc.

 

 

I actually asked very few questions. Initially, she volunteered that there was another man. Surprisingly, it did not have a significant impact on me. Thinking I knew my wife, I thought perhaps she had a cup of coffee and confiding in someone or at the most had lunch with him. Three weeks later I was hit with a bad thought on the way home, so when I got home, just to clarify I thought I would ask a question on what I thought was the worst scenario. Somewhat embarrassed, I said I want to ask a question, and do not want to offend you, but did you F... him. Her answer was, I do not want to answer after which I said omg, you did. She then said yes, but only once, I said it could have been a hundred times, it is the same result. After which she poured out the details, I only asked clarifying questions. She would describe something that did not make sense, and I would say, I don't understand, she would then fill in the details. This happened on several "things" I did not understand, so I would seek clarity, and each answer was worse than I could have ever imagined. So, yes, I got more answers than I bargained for, but, as painful as it was, it was the truth. So, yes, I knew what I was forgiving, but, the consequences were a lifetime of mind movies.

 

 

You got a lifetime of one movie.

 

 

I never got the truth.

 

 

So my movies, yes as in multiple movies because without the truth my mind has only been left guess did they do this, go there, say that, how many times, when did it start.

 

 

Or I've seen the 2 minute g rated movie trailer but have no idea what really happened in the other 118 minutes of the movie.

[Whoknew30]

Thanks for all the different points of view...the situation I was speaking of is now over. My H friend left his wife for the OW this weekend, he said he just couldn't do it anymore & since he's my H's childhood friend, he gets us in the divorce & I no longer have to deal with her.

 

I didn't understand her maybe bc when I was done with the A, I was done. I sat down & admitted everything without being "caught" so my H didn't question to many lies bc why would I still lie if I admitted it freely. My H did get caught but I had talked to the OW already & his story matched what she told me, so i didn't get into how much lying there was. If you're having an A, lying comes with it, so I didn't need to hear..."that one time instead of going with so & so, I was with her"...that kind of crap is pretty evident or the spouse couldn't of had an A in the first place. Also bc of our culture there are certain boundaries that aren't crossed. Having the AP in your home, missing family things to be with them, going out on actual dates in public. These are things that just didn't & wouldn't happen in my situation. Not to mention we didn't have A with other married people, we both figured if we screw up our own lives due to our mistakes ok but we didn't mess with anyone else's marriage. We follow rules even in an A, I know it sounds weird but that's just how it is for us.

[Whoknew30]

Yes ^^^ this and he failed!

 

It is to test for lies. I had proof black in white in my hands and watched my WH lie right to my face. When I showed him all of his deleted texts to MOW on many pages of printed paper he changed his tune, but nonetheless proved to be a liar.

 

I can see how that's upsetting bc I couldn't take someone that just won't tell the truth even when caught. I have to ask, have you ever gone after him, physically? I'm against any kind domestic abuse but I don't know if I could hold back in that situation.

[Lobe]

The WS is letting the BS control the rate/depth of information to be revealed.

 

Trickle truthing is when the BS says did you have sex and the WS says we just kissed. Then a month later admits to just oral, then months later sex but it was just once and a condom was used. Eventually all the lies get exposed.

 

We aren't talking about peeling back the layers of a godd*mned onion. At first, they just "fooled around." Then they "petted heavily." Eventually, yes, the truth trickled out - he was fisting her. I'm not sure how your definition of trickle truth is different than mine, except yours ends with no condom and mine ends with my husband elbow deep in the OW's bowels. (With no condom, by the way.)

 

It is not nor should it ever be considered up to the WS to "control" the flow or depth of what the BS gets to hear. Can they caution the BS and ask them to write a list of questions, sleep on it, decide if they really want the answer, suggest they go over the answers while in with the MC, sure... but to deflect a direct question to "protect" me is the very definition of trickle truth.

 

I'm not sure why you think it's the WS's decision what to share with the BS, if they actually want to earn back the BS's trust? When WH finally stopped "trickling" bits of truth out to "protect" me, I was finally able to feel like we were getting somewhere. How dare my WS be so f*cking arrogant as to determine what truth I can or cannot handle. If the WS seriously wanted to protect their spouse, I guess they ought not have banged someone else in the first place then.

 

Again, the bottom line is, the BS needs to determine what questions they want answered. Otherwise, it's the WS continuing the hiding, lying, withholding, deflecting, gaslighting, and perpetuating the stance of their spouse being "less than" and undeserving of complete and 100% honesty.

 

In short, the WSs who are afraid to answer truthfully are protecting themselves from the shame and potential mind movies that frankly, their BS wouldn't have in the first place if they weren't wayward.

[Whoknew30]

We aren't talking about peeling back the layers of a godd*mned onion. At first, they just "fooled around." Then they "petted heavily." Eventually, yes, the truth trickled out - he was fisting her. I'm not sure how your definition of trickle truth is different than mine, except yours ends with no condom and mine ends with my husband elbow deep in the OW's bowels. (With no condom, by the way.)

 

It is not nor should it ever be considered up to the WS to "control" the flow or depth of what the BS gets to hear. Can they caution the BS and ask them to write a list of questions, sleep on it, decide if they really want the answer, suggest they go over the answers while in with the MC, sure... but to deflect a direct question to "protect" me is the very definition of trickle truth.

 

I'm not sure why you think it's the WS's decision what to share with the BS, if they actually want to earn back the BS's trust? When WH finally stopped "trickling" bits of truth out to "protect" me, I was finally able to feel like we were getting somewhere. How dare my WS be so f*cking arrogant as to determine what truth I can or cannot handle. If the WS seriously wanted to protect their spouse, I guess they ought not have banged someone else in the first place then.

 

Again, the bottom line is, the BS needs to determine what questions they want answered. Otherwise, it's the WS continuing the hiding, lying, withholding, deflecting, gaslighting, and perpetuating the stance of their spouse being "less than" and undeserving of complete and 100% honesty.

 

In short, the WSs who are afraid to answer truthfully are protecting themselves from the shame and potential mind movies that frankly, their BS wouldn't have in the first place if they weren't wayward.

 

I agree on lot that you say minus the WS is just protecting themselves. "Some" BS really can't handle hearing the truth & can act a little crazy. If a WS knows their spouse better than anyone maybe they just know they're not capable of hearing certain things. I had sex but nothing like what you're explaining that your H did & when my H asked questions i hesitated not bc i was ashamed but bc I know how he is & now he tells me he regrets asking me certain questions bc I was so honest.

[katielee]

"Some" BS really can't handle hearing the truth & can act a little crazy.

 

How on earth would the WS know this unless they told the truth. If they "act a little crazy," they still deserve to know. This still smacks of the WS trying to control the BS.

Tell the truth, let go of the outcome.

[Whoknew30]

How on earth would the WS know this unless they told the truth. If they "act a little crazy," they still deserve to know. This still smacks of the WS trying to control the BS.

Tell the truth, let go of the outcome.

 

Bc the reality is just bc someone is a BS doesn't mean all of a sudden they don't have faults. Like this girl I was talking about, she's crazy, even before the A. I'm glad he chose to leave instead of containing the cheating. The point not all BS are some sweet little spouse waiting so nicely at home while WS is having an A. Not every cheater is the devil & not every BS is a saint.

[Lobe]

I agree on lot that you say minus the WS is just protecting themselves. "Some" BS really can't handle hearing the truth & can act a little crazy. If a WS knows their spouse better than anyone maybe they just know they're not capable of hearing certain things. I had sex but nothing like what you're explaining that your H did & when my H asked questions i hesitated not bc i was ashamed but bc I know how he is & now he tells me he regrets asking me certain questions bc I was so honest.

 

It wasn't even what I was asking. It was that he wasn't answering. If he would have been less "trickly" I doubt I would have pushed so hard. I wonder if your bs would have been angry if you had held back more. Every situation is unique I suppose, hey? And yet we all fumble onward lol.