I'm having trouble with our open marriage

[elaine567]

There is an implant surgery that he could get that would let him have the ability to get a (fake) erection. His wife wasn't on board with that decision, she'd rather go outside the marriage for sex than have sex with a fake erection that is for "old men" (her words).

 

She sounds like a charming woman...

I think the more I read the more I think they deserve one another...

[JRP]

She sounds like a charming woman...

I think the more I read the more I think they deserve one another...

 

I've always felt a b*tch-vibe about her. That was the icing though. If I was in her place I'd much rather take that option than open the marriage. If there was a surgery that could fix the sexual part of my marriage, I'd jump at it. She said she wanted "authentic sex". My husband basically wants the same thing, an "authentic experience" with all the emotion, communication, build up, whatever else comes with sex. The OW's husband said his wife didn't care if him and I (or any other woman) saw each other because no one would be interested in "fake" sex. I don't want to have sex but I like to think that if I did I wouldn't care how he got the erection. I can't see why that would matter. It's like her ego couldn't take it, and she thought she should be able to cure nerve damage with looks and sex appeal.

[impasse]

When my husband saw me and the OW's husband together, afterwards he wanted to know everything that we did and talked about. He wanted to know if there was flirting, if I was attracted to him, if I wanted him, if there was any touching (even just if he touched my leg). If I'd rather be intimate with him or if it would be easier to be intimate with him.

 

To be honest, I've felt for a long time that it would be easier to be intimate with OW's husband because there is no pressure (or possibility) for penetration. Everything leads up to penetration which is a large part of why it's hard for me to do anything. With her husband it's totally off the table and there is no chance of an erection. [snip]

 

Obviously I haven't said that to my husband, but I think he knows it or suspects it. He doesn't want another man to be "better" than him and able to do that with me.

 

The reaction of your husband and his wife are opposite, regarding your contact with her husband. His wife could seemingly care less because in her mind nothing will ever happen between you two because of his condition. Your husband wants you to avoid her husband like the plague because he knows that man is better suited to you.

 

Now he's playing the "I don't want her but I don't want anyone else to have her either" game.

 

You trust that man more than you trust your husband, which says a lot. I have a feeling guilt is holding you back more than the trauma, at this point. If the marriage was totally open on both sides and your husband truly didn't mind, do you think you would pursue something with the other man?

[sandylee1]

You see this a bit of a problem and isn't good.

 

"Sometimes he'll go days without kissing me if I don't initiate or remind him.

he said it's a balancing act how much I get and how much she gets."

 

I think he's struggling to have intimacy of sorts with both of you and he actually feels more connected to her. He may even feel that he's betraying her by kissing you.

 

"His wife wasn't on board with that decision, she'd rather go outside the marriage for sex than have sex with a fake erection that is for "old men" (her words)"

 

How horrible of her to say this.

She's clearly not interested in her husband anymore and will leave him when she finds someone else.

 

To be honest, I've felt for a long time that it would be easier to be intimate with OW's husband because there is no pressure (or possibility) for penetration.

 

I agree with you on this. With your husband, he gets frustrated knowing it won't lead to sex, so he doesn't bother initiating anything at all, especially now he has her.

[sandylee1]

Quote from JRP

 

When my husband saw me and the OW's husband together, afterwards he wanted to know everything that we did and talked about..... if I was attracted to him........... If I'd rather be intimate with him or if it would be easier to be intimate with him.

 

It's quite possible that your husband feels that you'd find it easier to be intimate with the OWs husband and in his mind, that would be because the OWs husband is able to empathise and make you feel at ease.

 

In his mind, that would be a defeat for him, like he had failed because another man is able to do that with/for you. It's his ego.

 

He wants to believe that he can provide everything you need and that it's only you who can't meet the needs of the other in your marriage, but right now, he's not able to provide you with attention or emotional support that you need.

 

Maybe he's just not good at juggling two women, like seasoned cheaters. In conventional marriages, many BWs have said their husband was very distant during the affair, refusing intimacy with her and was just horrible to her. That's because he didn't need the intimacy from his wife, with an OW on the side...... and the OWs often ask the MM not to have sex with his wife.

 

I think that's happening with your husband too. (not the being horrible and OW saying no sex part)

 

I think you need to realise that you're regressing in making any progress with your PTSD while in this marriage and that you

really could make significant improvement and attain intimacy with the right person.

 

Added to that.... You'll feel a little bit better if you pull the plug, rather than live in fear of the day he comes home and says he can't do this anymore. No more anxiety over a bomb being dropped and you reduce /eliminate the feeling of rejection.

 

Sorry .... I didn't mean it to be this long.

[road]

That's what my husband gets and what he wants. He doesn't want there to be any openness on my side to get something from another man, be it emotional or physical. He is allowed to stray from the marriage, I am not (not that I have wanted to). When my husband saw me and the OW's husband together, afterwards he wanted to know everything that we did and talked about. He wanted to know if there was flirting, if I was attracted to him, if I wanted him, if there was any touching (even just if he touched my leg). If I'd rather be intimate with him or if it would be easier to be intimate with him.

 

 

Typical WH response. Ok for me to get strange but I will not share my wife.

This is not an open marriage.

[BaileyB]

No. He is having an affair, under some rather unusual circumstances.

 

He clearly doesn't want you to become emotionally attached to another man. Yet, that is exactly what is happening when he has weekly sex wih another woman and falls asleep cuddling with her all night...

[JRP]

The reaction of your husband and his wife are opposite, regarding your contact with her husband. His wife could seemingly care less because in her mind nothing will ever happen between you two because of his condition. Your husband wants you to avoid her husband like the plague because he knows that man is better suited to you.

 

Now he's playing the "I don't want her but I don't want anyone else to have her either" game.

 

You trust that man more than you trust your husband, which says a lot. I have a feeling guilt is holding you back more than the trauma, at this point. If the marriage was totally open on both sides and your husband truly didn't mind, do you think you would pursue something with the other man?

 

I don't think his wife really cares about him anymore. There was one occasion when the 4 of us were in the same room together. My husband and the OW were going to go do "their thing" and we were going to do ours. The vibe between them felt emotionless and full of hate. Her husband told me that they have a prenup and the way he was talking it sounded like she hasn't divorced him yet because of that.

 

In my world I'm married and I wouldn't stray from my marriage. I don't want to let my mind go there. I don't have any desire to have sex, really. I don't look at him (or anyone) and think that I want to have sex with him. But I don't know, there is something there. When I look at him or think about him it feels different than with other people. When we were seeing each other my whole body would get tingly when he was around. I try to ignore it. I'm married (and I'm pretty sure the feeling isn't mutual).

 

You see this a bit of a problem and isn't good.

 

"Sometimes he'll go days without kissing me if I don't initiate or remind him.

he said it's a balancing act how much I get and how much she gets."

 

I think he's struggling to have intimacy of sorts with both of you and he actually feels more connected to her. He may even feel that he's betraying her by kissing you.

 

"His wife wasn't on board with that decision, she'd rather go outside the marriage for sex than have sex with a fake erection that is for "old men" (her words)"

 

How horrible of her to say this.

She's clearly not interested in her husband anymore and will leave him when she finds someone else.

 

To be honest, I've felt for a long time that it would be easier to be intimate with OW's husband because there is no pressure (or possibility) for penetration.

 

I agree with you on this. With your husband, he gets frustrated knowing it won't lead to sex, so he doesn't bother initiating anything at all, especially now he has her.

 

My husband has said that he feels like he is betraying her when he's with me, and me when he's with her. If he has to choose between physical intimacy with me or with her, he chooses her. It shouldn't be like that... I wouldn't be surprised if he was closer to her than he is to me.

 

We are on vacation/work right now. My husband is working half the time and the other half he is free to do whatever he wants. I have a lot of free time on my hands so maybe I'm just worrying more than normal, but I feel like this vacation is the last time we'll be together. I feel like everything is going to change when we get home.

 

It's quite possible that your husband feels that you'd find it easier to be intimate with the OWs husband and in his mind, that would be because the OWs husband is able to empathise and make you feel at ease.

 

In his mind, that would be a defeat for him, like he had failed because another man is able to do that with/for you. It's his ego.

 

He wants to believe that he can provide everything you need and that it's only you who can't meet the needs of the other in your marriage, but right now, he's not able to provide you with attention or emotional support that you need.

 

I would say that this is pretty accurate. We've talked about it here and there and he's given me the impression that he wants to be the one I do it with for the first time. Like it's a contest on who could get me to sleep with them. In the past, a long time ago, he asked if I thought it would be easier to get intimate with a 3rd party. The conversation never went anywhere, I had no interest in anyone else.

 

Maybe he's just not good at juggling two women, like seasoned cheaters. In conventional marriages, many BWs have said their husband was very distant during the affair, refusing intimacy with her and was just horrible to her. That's because he didn't need the intimacy from his wife, with an OW on the side...... and the OWs often ask the MM not to have sex with his wife.

 

I think that's happening with your husband too. (not the being horrible and OW saying no sex part)

 

I think you need to realise that you're regressing in making any progress with your PTSD while in this marriage and that you

really could make significant improvement and attain intimacy with the right person.

 

Added to that.... You'll feel a little bit better if you pull the plug, rather than live in fear of the day he comes home and says he can't do this anymore. No more anxiety over a bomb being dropped and you reduce /eliminate the feeling of rejection.

 

He was the monogamous type before the open-marriage started. Even the women he "randomly" hooked up with were people he knew. He may just stink at having two women (I hate saying two women) but he knows it's an issue and he should have chosen me not her. Or like someone else said, maybe he's trying to push me away.

 

I know that I'm not making any progress being with him. It's scary wondering how things would change if he wasn't around. There is no guarantee that it will get better and part of me feels like I'm giving up on my marriage too easily.

[EZNona]

JRP,

 

First of all, my heart really goes out to you. I can't imagine how challenging and frustrating it must feel to try to overcome what has happened to you and then to also deal with your unique marriage situation. I do believe you are much stronger than you even realize. It takes a person of strong will to go through the trauma you experienced and still be willing to let love in your life.

 

In regards to your current marriage, I get the impression that your husband thought this would be a temporary issue. When he stated that he couldn't do this long-term and still married you...that makes it seem as though he believed that one day you would heal enough to be able to share intimacy together. I do not think he envisioned this would still be ongoing.

 

Now he has realized how "permanent" this may likely become and it explains why he is extra willing to cross boundaries with the current OW. Him being gone for 4 hours, cuddling, and staying the night shows an emotional connection he is building with the OW. I hate to say this, but I believe the current arrangement with the OW will push him to act on the thoughts and realizations of wanting a relationship and marriage with both the emotional and physical aspects joined together.

 

A positive out of what's currently happening is not only are YOU starting to feel and be aware of the fact that this situation is not sustainable for either party, but ALSO that you may be able to progress further with your trauma by being with someone where you don't have to feel the 'pressures' of being intimate.

 

It's quite telling that with the OW's husband, you may feel more relaxed and even curious about what intimacy may be like with someone who has similar struggles.

 

With someone like the OW's husband, you would have more control and power over when you would be ready to initiate something further. There wouldn't be as much stress put on the relationship to be expected to perform in a way to fulfill your partner's sexual needs.

 

With your current marriage, there is still a feeling of being powerless and not equal to your partner and that is not helping you to progress further with your healing. If anything it's holding you back and keeping you at a standstill.

 

I also think that at the young age of 24, this is way too much for a young lady to have to cope through especially so soon after what happened to you.

 

A support group like the one the OW's husband attends could be great for finding like-minded individuals who you can relate to, get support, and receive outside perspectives and advice that can help you along the way.

[sandylee1]

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I don't think hiswife really cares about him anymore. There was one occasion when the 4 of uswere in the same room together. My husband and the OW were going to go do"their thing" and we were going to do ours. The vibe between them feltemotionless and full of hate. Her husband told me that they have a prenup andthe way he was talking it sounded like she hasn't divorced him yet because ofthat.

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[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]He should divorce her.

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[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]In my world I'm married and I wouldn'tstray from my marriage. I don't want to let my mind go there. I don't have anydesire to have sex, really. I don't look at him (or anyone) and think that Iwant to have sex with him. But I don't know, there is something there. When Ilook at him or think about him it feels different than with other people. Whenwe were seeing each other my whole body would get tingly when he was around. Itry to ignore it. I'm married (and I'm pretty sure the feeling isn't mutual).

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[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]Why do you say this? he might not be aware of how you feel

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[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]My husband has said that he feels likehe is betraying her when he's with me,

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[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]You see this right here, proves it'snot just the sex with her anymore. if it was just sex, he wouldn't betalking this way.

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[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]and me when he's with her. If he has tochoose between physical intimacy with me or with her, he chooses her. Itshouldn't be like that... I wouldn't be surprised if he was closer to her thanhe is to me.

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[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]I'm sure they've talked about this too.Your husband and the OW. They're more than just sex mates, it's a realrelationship for them and the chances are they do more than just sex ... likedinner...drinks etc

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[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]We are on vacation/work right now. Myhusband is working half the time and the other half he is free to do whateverhe wants. I have a lot of free time on my hands so maybe I'm just worrying morethan normal, but I feel like this vacation is the last time we'll be together.I feel like everything is going to change when we get home.

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[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]Like it's a contest on who could get meto sleep with them. [FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]I wrote pretty much this in mylast post and then deleted it, because I though I was worried it would offend you by sayingit. I think he does want to be the first and will feel he failed and takea hit to his ego, if you get closer to OWH and were able to manage some levelof intimacy. He wants to be the one.

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[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]He was the monogamous type before theopen-marriage started. Even the women he "randomly" hooked up with werepeople he knew. He may just stink at having two women (I hate saying two women)but he knows it's an issue and he should have chosen me not her. Or likesomeone else said, maybe he's trying to push me away.

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[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]I know that I'm not making any progressbeing with him. It's scary wondering how things would change if he wasn'taround. There is no guarantee that it will get better and part of me feels likeI'm giving up on my marriage too easily.

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[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]I don't think you're giving up easilyby a long shot.

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[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]Looking back your husband has alwaysgot his way on the sex thing regardless of your feelings. I can onlyassume he doesn't realise how much it hurts you.

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[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]Remember this from 2012 before you gotmarried?

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"He said he would stay with me for a fewyears without sex (he was being honest) but that it would be hard on him and hemight need to release those sexual needs/desires somewhere else....."

"I told him from before we starteddating that I wasn't okay with that but it didn't do much good."

 

 

 

^^^^^^^ Has he ever really listened to you about this issue? It just seems like he was persistent in wanting to be 'the one.'

 

"It scares me to death that he might do this again."

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[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]^^^^^^That was in reference to havingsex with an OW

 

Looking back, you were never really okay with him being with another woman andhe knew that.

 

He also knew how important sex was to him and that he would never have beenable to go without it for a few years like he said he would try, bearing inmind he broke up with you after 13 months because was so frustrated and gettingangry, so he had to get sex elsewhere, so how was he ever going to manage anyamount of years of marriage.

 

"Yes, what he did was a dick move"

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[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]^^^^^That was in referenceto breaking up with you to have sex with someone and then coming back toyou. He should have just left you alone back then and you'd have been over himnow.

 

"My gut is telling me that he doesn't love me and care about me asmuch as he thinks he does."

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[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]^^^^^ I'd say your gut was right to behonest with you.

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He knew how hurt you were by this, but instead of letting you get over him, wayback then, he went on to propose, effectively forcing you to agree to an openmarriage for him.

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[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]This below is what I wrote and deleted(in bold), but it was saved on my clipboard

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I've no doubt that you see him as a good man and he must have goodqualities, but do you think somewhere inside he really wanted to bethe one you had consensual sex with and he didn't give thought to how thisopen marriage would impact on you and your mental health?

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[sandylee1]

messed up post and will redo.

[sandylee1]

I don't think his wife really cares about him anymore..... Her husband told me that they have a prenup and the way he was talking it sounded like she hasn't divorced him yet because of that.

 

 

Mmm. She sounds rather unpleasant.

 

 

In my world I'm married and I wouldn't stray from my marriage. I don't want to let my mind go there. I don't have any desire to have sex, really. I don't look at him (or anyone) and think that I want to have sex with him. But I don't know, there is something there. When I look at him or think about him it feels different than with other people. When we were seeing each other my whole body would get tingly when he was around. I try to ignore it. I'm married (and I'm pretty sure the feeling isn't mutual).

 

He might feel you don't feel anything either

 

My husband has said that he feels like he is betraying her when he's with me,

 

 

You see this right here, shows it's not just sex anymore with him, because he would not feel like he's betraying a sex mate. He's got 2 relationships right now.

 

 

and me when he's with her. If he has to choose between physical intimacy with me or with her, he chooses her. It shouldn't be like that... I wouldn't be surprised if he was closer to her than he is to me.

 

 

I guess in one way they are, but she hasn't known him as long as you have and I'm they've had lots of talk about it. Do they go out to dinner and do more than just sex? Would he tell you if they did?

 

We are on vacation/work right now. My husband is working half the time and the other half he is free to do whatever he wants. I have a lot of free time on my hands so maybe I'm just worrying more than normal, but I feel like this vacation is the last time we'll be together. I feel like everything is going to change when we get home.

 

Maybe it's for the best

 

 

I would say that this is pretty accurate. We've talked about it here and there and he's given me the impression that he wants to be the one I do it with for the first time. Like it's a contest on who could get me to sleep with them.

 

 

I wrote this earlier, but thought I might offend you.

Do you think that deep down he wants to be the one you have consensual sex with and he didn't give a though about how this would impact on your mental health? Sound about right.

 

 

 

He was the monogamous type before the open-marriage started. Even the women he "randomly" hooked up with were people he knew. He may just stink at having two women (I hate saying two women) but he knows it's an issue and he should have chosen me not her. Or like someone else said, maybe he's trying to push me away.

 

 

I think so too.

 

I know that I'm not making any progress being with him. It's scary wondering how things would change if he wasn't around. There is no guarantee that it will get better and part of me feels like I'm giving up on my marriage too easily.

 

You aren't. You've tried your best, but he really should never have come back after breaking up with you in 2012, when he was so frustrated and needed sex.

 

 

You told him you weren't okay with it before you started dating, but he was determined to give it a go. Fine, he tried, but coming back after the heartbreak was not the best thing. that's when he should have realised he can't go without sex, but he was hell bent on wanting to rescue you. A bit of a KISA - knight in shining armour.

[Mumbles]

In relation to wanting my cake and eating it too:

 

That's what my husband gets and what he wants.

 

Yes. I admitted these feelings on my behalf only to show that jealously and 'cake eating' desires, I think, are perfectly normal. But thoughts are thoughts and deeds are deeds. I have never thought that the cake/eat thing is even remotely fair.

 

I had a girlfriend in my younger years who was insanely jealous of any possibilities I might have with other women ... yet she was quite comfortable in herself to be getting plenty of strange on the side. Its a common enough scenario, but not a sustainable one ... because its not fair.

 

 

If I'd rather be intimate with him or if it would be easier to be intimate with him.

 

To be honest, I've felt for a long time that it would be easier to be intimate with OW's husband because there is no pressure (or possibility) for penetration. Everything leads up to penetration which is a large part of why it's hard for me to do anything. With her husband it's totally off the table and there is no chance of an erection.

 

Ahh, now, this is really something.

 

I mentioned in my last post, in response to someone else, the possibility of a sex surrogate, as they are sometimes called. These therapists are really just that, therapists. They get a bad rap in general as many people really struggle to differentiate them from prostitutes, but in my mind, there is a difference, a real difference.

 

In a normal sexual situation, one thing inevitably leads to another, and this is where your fears reside. You can't even make a start because you know full well where its going to end, and this isn't somewhere you can go right now. A sex therapist isn't there for his own gratification, he's there to lead you, in incremental steps, over as long a time as it takes, towards physical and mental comfort and 'peace' with people of the opposite sex.

 

I wouldn't approach this alone, I'd look into the possibilities in conjunction with your regular therapist. On that vein, I'd side with a previous poster who pondered whether it might be worthwhile looking for a new therapist as well. Your current one seems to have reached a plateau. A new angle of approach might help to push into new ground.

 

I'll leave this thought for now, but from your side, it can't hurt to raise the subject with your therapist, even if you really don't think you'd proceed. It might be an interesting road to explore even if just mentally during your sessions with him/her.

 

 

We talked about his problems a little bit, which were caused by nerve damage 10 years ago in his mid-20's. He is completely unable to get an erection on his own. There was an injection drug that sort of worked but only for a few minutes and didn't give a full erection. There is an implant surgery that he could get that would let him have the ability to get a (fake) erection. His wife wasn't on board with that decision, she'd rather go outside the marriage for sex than have sex with a fake erection that is for "old men" (her words).

 

Good lord! Imagine for a minute where this poor man is, mentally. All other things being equal, he would have retained his sense of desire and longing for sexual contact, but is physically unable to perform. He must be in a very dark place right now. Its incel, in reality, involuntary celibacy, but by circumstance rather than intent.

 

I'm not a doctor but I imagine that the surgery being spoken of here is probably a 'penis pump' or something similar. By all accounts, these devices do a splendid job and the 'fakeness' about it is really just a mental block. Although the process is different, the end result can't be far removed from the idea of a 'cock ring'.

 

I can't understand why a loving wife wouldn't want to go down this road with her spouse. From her side, mental block that she has aside, she wouldn't be able to tell the difference. But, I suspect the aversion to this solution is the same as many women have against viagra or similar drugs. They are too invested in their own internal view of their physical desirability and want a mans reaction to that to be completely 'natural'. What those with this view seem to fail to realise is that the 'desire' part is fully functioning and very healthy, its just the physical reaction to that desire which needs some assistance.

 

Obviously I haven't said that to my husband, but I think he knows it or suspects it. He doesn't want another man to be "better" than him and able to do that with me.

 

Yes, got it. Understand, even have some sympathy around it - but needs must right? He seems to be completely and totally oblivious to your side of this equation. You also don't want another woman to be 'better' (ugh...) than you. Yet, you've selflessly agreed to face the reality of the situation.

 

TBH, I don't know which was worse. Always wondering what he was doing with his time, or when I know when he is doing it, wondering exactly what he's doing. But suck(ed).

 

For mine, wondering is better than knowing.

 

I'm fine with my wifes lovers, but at the same time, I don't want them doing the business together in the bedroom of our house whilst I'm watching TV in the living room. Get the idea? Discretion and fuzziness.

 

 

My husband main issue with prostitutes are the percentage of them that have been sexually abused or forced to be there. Whatever percentage that may be. His other issue is paying for something that he can get for "free". To him going to prostitutes is saying that he's ok with sexual abuse.

 

The abuse thing, assuming you're residing in a westernised country, is a latent fear many have which is, statistically, almost zero. You'd probably have about the same chance of bumping into an abused women at a bar for a ONS. But, whatever, people hold the views they hold and I don't want to spark an unhelpful conversation around this as part of this thread.

 

I think the reality is probably closer to the second idea ... the 'free' bit. He either doesn't want to spend money, a common enough thing, or, even more likely, he's ego is so tightly wound up around this subject that he'd feel it 'lessens' him as a man to have to pay for a womans physical affections.

 

News flash for him, a man _always_ pays for a womans affections - nothing in this life is truly free ... except perhaps the love of a child for its parents. The payment isn't always money though. In this case, superficially at the very least, he is risking and almost certainly damaging his relationship, his emotional and real life relationship with _you_ by taking such a stance and pursuing, or potentially pursuing, other women in a romantic sense (as opposed to a purely physical interaction).

 

He says that he needs the emotion to go with the sex for the sex to be good. He has to have it on both ends, his and OW's.

 

Mmm.

 

You see, at face value this might seem reasonable. But on a double take, it really isn't. Compromises have to be made and in your relationship compromises _are_ being made. What does 'emotion' in the context of your arrangement actually mean? What could it possibly mean?

 

For example. Did he court, date, build a friendship and _then_ have sex with the OW? Or did they pretty much just get to it on the first or second meet?

 

If I had to guess, aside from some amount of (probably) minimal interaction to begin the arrangement, they probably went straight to it. I really wonder if 'emotion' here is being used as a simile for 'passionate'? If I'm even part way right there, passionate sex can be had with the right partner even on a ONS, so it shouldn't be an excuse here.

 

The thing is, if emotion is really that, an emotional connection, together with sex, isn't this precisely what, surely, you both _don't_ want? Its your husbands biggest fear with relation to the other womans husband... double standard much?

 

Honestly, he's overthinking it. Lets go back to basics for a minute here.

 

The idea floated, by you both, originally, was that you are both healthy adults who love each other. You've had a life experience which precludes sex at this time, and maybe forever, but otherwise, you have (or had) a functioning and loving relationship. Adults, generally, have undeniable sexual urges which can't reasonably be denied or put to sleep. You have a preexisting PTSD (probably) condition which is nullifying yours, but husband is going to suffer without the physical act of sex ... as a husband who in his previous marriage suffered from incel I know how real this is ... its not made up.

 

But this pent up physical frustration and unhappiness is a physical thing which then translates into the mental if not satiated. By having sex with a female, those feelings will largely, manageably, be quelled.

 

Would the closeness and emotion, love, all that, be more fully satisfying if you both could have sex? Of course, without a shadow of doubt. But thats a problem waiting for a solution on a different day.

 

The problem at hand is how to keep your relationship together, and your husbands sanity intact. Physical relations will do it, largely.

 

If what we're really talking about though is how to have a fully developed, mental, emotional, sexual, historical relationship with another woman ....? Thats another beast entirely, and one that can only have a pretty unfortunate outcome for your current relationship with your husband.

 

Even when he was single he only slept with the same women over and over. The OW gets more of his emotional side than I do. It's slowly be dying since she came into the picture and sometimes I have to remind him that I still need that side of him too. Sometimes he'll go days without kissing me if I don't initiate or remind him. I have talked to him about that and he said it's a balancing act how much I get and how much she gets.

 

See, this is sounding more like a weird sort of 'poly' arrangement that an 'open' one. Emotion, love, these are not cupcake sized feelings that need to be neatly divided up from a finite whole. These feelings are essentially boundless. One doesn't love ones wife less because one has children and needs to love them too. Or stop loving ones parents because now you have a husband and kids and theres simply no love left to go around.

 

I feel like I should be getting that whole side, or at least damn near all of it. For him sex and emotion are intertwined.

 

I agree with you. Sex and emotion _are_ intertwined, theres no doubt, none. We're all chemical junkies ultimately and hormones are released upon satisfactory sexual congress which both bond you and make you feel 'high'.

 

But, and its a big but... we're also intellectual beings and can make conscious decisions. Its the reason why we don't simply wander through life pulling the pants off anyone we meet who looks sexually interesting. We do, ultimately, have control. I mentioned earlier that these 'feelings' and bondedness that comes from having sex with new partners is a demon that those in open relationships have to face off, not deny, and when you recognise the situation developing into something undesirable then you have to move on, so to speak, and leave the lover behind.

 

Assuming the sex with the other person is not deceitful and they are on the same page (ie, he's not seeing women who want an LTR), then everyone knows the deal and feelings are not hurt when the inevitable break happens.

 

 

For me, I'd love to have kids. I've signed off on that because it's just not going to happen. No sex means babies aren't going to happen the conventional way and there isn't going to be a "dad". I'm not comfortable going the route of a sperm donor and AI or IVF, or adoption, because I don't want to be a single parent. No dad in the picture, I'm not close with my family, it wouldn't be fair to bring a child into that.

 

Certainly you'd want to be in an emotionally sustainable place with your husband before contemplating going down this road. Ultimately the desire for having children surely can't be completely encapsulated in the desire for the physical activity that usually makes them though? Your husband would go to the clinic, make a deposit, and, you'd likewise go to the clinic and make a withdrawal It all sounds a bit bizarre I know, but, honestly now, you'd both have children, ultimately, which are yours (DNA), you made them together ... I'm not aware of any stats indicating that IVF conceived babies are loved less than 'naturally' conceived babies.

 

But this is a ways off I feel. Lots of groundwork needs to be covered off before this becomes a serious subject and as you're still so young, theres no immediate time pressures.

 

 

The simple answer... being married to him isn't helping me. I shouldn't be stuck in the same place I was almost 10 years ago. I don't feel like he's helping me progress, I feel stuck.

 

Ok

 

Firstly, its become increasingly evident as the posts have progressed that the real problem, the biggest issue, has been recently, with the introduction and ongoing 'relationship' with the current OW. These two have already, from the sounds of it, gone a long way down the road that they should never have turned on to.

 

TBH, I suspect the motivations of this OW. She's not willing, it appears, to assist her husband to get over his physical issue so that they could, presumably, reinvigorate their own marriage. She may well be looking for a replacement man. If she's coming on strong to your husband, really just drowning him in all the gooey stuff, he's going to be aflood with domapine and oxytocin.

 

The current OW has to go. Really, I can't see a scenario where she stays and your husband and you progress.

 

Even if the OW's husband comes back into the picture, with your husbands 'consent' it feels to me like this particular couple is now poisoned and its time to move on.

 

Theres a lot more going on here, and the many posts have addressed some of these in a scattered way, but it seems to me that a solution, if one is to be found, can't be decided in a shotgun approach. Focus, whats the problem right now?

 

You feel your husband slowly drifting away, emotionally, and it seems to you, and is likely, that this is because of the interaction with the OW. A new OW would dispel the problems existent with the current situation. I'd strongly recommend that there is not a future "OW" but instead are several, as was previously the case (2-3?).

 

Husband needs to move on, and keep moving on, whilst maintaining his focus on what is actually really important ... his relationship with you.

 

I'm keen on putting forward the idea of not 'blaming' your husband here. Yes, he's made several errors in my view, but ones that are easily made and are, ultimately, only human.

 

But ... he's got to 'man up' here. I'd like to think this can be achieved without an ultimatum type talk, but whether it comes to that will depend his ability to have empathy with you. Have the conversation, unbelievably difficult though it will be, you need to have it. It will provide some clarity on the best future direction for both of you. Have it soon. If you procrastinate here you will allow events to dictate the outcome, and this won't be a happy time for either your husband or yourself.

[sandylee1]

Really good detailed post Mumbles. I agree a lot other info is coming out and this particular OW is not good, but I reckon if you try and get rid of her, your husband will protest.

 

 

Also, it is sounding a lot more like cake eating too from the OPs husband.

 

 

He'll probably say you got rid of the last couple of OWs and now this one, meaning he has to keep going out to find a new OW or two, when you get uncomfortable.

 

 

There's no doubt he's getting way too attached to her though.

 

 

Some men would probably be happy with that, but that's more older men, who have kids and other things they want out of life.

 

 

On another note - if I were the OWs husband, I would go for that operation and divorce her. there are many understanding women out there, who would work with him on that, as long other areas of the relationship were fine.

[JRP]

I don't think his wife really cares about him anymore. There was one occasion when the 4 of us were in the same room together. My husband and the OW were going to go do"their thing" and we were going to do ours. The vibe between them felt emotionless and full of hate. Her husband told me that they have a prenup and the way he was talking it sounded like she hasn't divorced him yet because of that.

 

He should divorce her.

 

I have mixed feelings on that. Part of me (stupidly) feels like there is a bit of protection with the OW being married. That she won't just run off with my husband. I know that's not true, but it's like I try and tell myself it is. Then there is this jealous part of me that doesn't want him (the OW's husband, not my husband) to be with other women. I've never felt jealousy like that for someone I'm not with. Then there is the rational side that agrees, he should have left her long ago.

 

In my world I'm married and I wouldn't stray from my marriage. I don't want to let my mind go there. I don't have any desire to have sex, really. I don't look at him (or anyone) and think that I want to have sex with him. But I don't know, there is something there. When I look at him or think about him it feels different than with other people. When we were seeing each other my whole body would get tingly when he was around. I try to ignore it. I'm married (and I'm pretty sure the feeling isn't mutual).

 

Why do you say this? he might not be aware of how you feel

 

He's way more attractive than I am. I don't think I'm ugly, I'm comfortable with myself and maintain myself. I notice men look at me when I'm out. But... He is probably the most attractive person I've seen in the flesh. It's rare for me to think a guy is "gorgeous" without also seeing him as a pretty boy (which I don't like). I like a man who looks like a man, you know? Not more pretty than I am. I don't usually think of a guy as drop dead gorgeous and handsome but he is. He could get the most attractive women. People usually go for someone that is equal to them.

 

There is an age difference, he's 9 years older. Based on my looks alone people always think I'm younger than I am, as young as 16-18. He seems like a naturally flirty guy. If he's not, then he was flirting a lot. I know that I was flirting with him, I was trying not to but I know I was.

 

He and his wife have a "fully open" marriage but he said he has never acted on it. Since my husband has told me to stop communicating to him and seeing him, he has texted me a bit. Last night he texted me this morning. For the most part my phone has been off since we are out of the country right now. I don't let the conversation keep going, because my husband doesn't want me to. This morning he (OW's husband) said if my husband can text his wife than he can text me. He told me to check my husbands phone, which I don't do but today I did. He has pretty much been texting her non-stop, including a lot of "I miss you", "I need you", "I'd rather be with you", "I love you". Sexting. And talking about a lot more than just sex.

 

It's not even cheating because I allowed it and knew about it. It feels just as bad.

 

"...and me when he's with her. If he has to choose between physical intimacy with me or with her, he chooses her. It shouldn't be like that... I wouldn't be surprised if he was closer to her than he is to me."

 

I'm sure they've talked about this too.Your husband and the OW. They're more than just sex mates, it's a real relationship for them and the chances are they do more than just sex ... like dinner...drinks etc

 

They do. At one point I asked him if they only had sex and he responded with "not always". He said keeping a friendship between them was important. Obviously I was an idiot to believe that. Not even believe it, but force myself to believe it.

 

Like it's a contest on who could get me to sleep with them.

 

I wrote pretty much this in my last post and then deleted it, because I was worried it would offend you by saying it. I think he does want to be the first and will feel he failed and take a hit to his ego, if you get closer to OWH and were able to manage some level of intimacy. He wants to be the one.

 

I really do think it's like a competition to him. Right now I feel like even if we did have sex he still wouldn't be happy. Like we'd do it and he'd leave after because he got what he wanted. He knows he's never going to "win" but doesn't want to admit that.

 

Remember this from 2012 before you got married?

 

"He said he would stay with me for a few years without sex (he was being honest) but that it would be hard on him and he might need to release those sexual needs/desires somewhere else....."

 

"I told him from before we started dating that I wasn't okay with that but it didn't do much good."

 

^^^^^^^ Has he ever really listened to you about this issue? It just seems like he was persistent in wanting to be 'the one.'

 

Not really. We talked about it and I told him over and over that I wasn't ok with it, but he still wanted to do it. I did allow it, I never wanted to. I knew if I wanted to be with him (or any other guy without sexual issues) I'd have to allow it. I've gotten more use to it over the years.

 

Sometimes I do wish we didn't get back together after he ended it the first time. I think he only got back with me because he missed me, like many do after a break up, not because he thought we'd work out.

 

I've no doubt that you see him as a good man and he must have good qualities, but do you think somewhere inside he really wanted to be the one you had consensual sex with and he didn't give thought to how this open marriage would impact on you and your mental health?

 

Yeah, there is a part of me that thinks that. I don't think that is the only reason he got with me and has stuck around, but I think it's in the back of his mind somewhere. He has said things that indicated he'd be hurt if I was able to sleep with someone else and was upset when he asked if I'd find it easier to sleep with OW's husband.

 

In regards to your current marriage, I get the impression that your husband thought this would be a temporary issue. When he stated that he couldn't do this long-term and still married you...that makes it seem as though he believed that one day you would heal enough to be able to share intimacy together. I do not think he envisioned this would still be ongoing.

 

He did think it would be temporary. That with enough time and patience I'd be able to have sex. I don't know why he wanted to marry me. He said he could wait for a few years, but initiated an open relationship before that time frame was up. I wouldn't have married him if I thought this was where we would end up... I thought we'd get to the point of being able to have sex. Or hoped.

 

It's quite telling that with the OW's husband, you may feel more relaxed and even curious about what intimacy may be like with someone who has similar struggles.

 

With your current marriage, there is still a feeling of being powerless and not equal to your partner and that is not helping you to progress further with your healing. If anything it's holding you back and keeping you at a standstill.

 

Before I met the OW's husband, I felt like I'd never be interested in sex and that was that. It wasn't going to happen and was better to accept it now. That feeling kind of changed after I met him. I didn't magically start wanting and thinking (positively) about sex. But it brought up curiosity and I thought about it enough to think it would be easier with OW's husband than my husband.

 

I mentioned in my last post, in response to someone else, the possibility of a sex surrogate, as they are sometimes called. These therapists are really just that, therapists. They get a bad rap in general as many people really struggle to differentiate them from prostitutes, but in my mind, there is a difference, a real difference.

 

Quite a while ago a sex therapist that I was seeing mentioned something about that. Not necessarily for me to do it, but just talking about it. Honestly I shut it down really quickly, so I don't remember what she was saying about it. I'm not sure how I'd feel about it.

 

Good lord! Imagine for a minute where this poor man is, mentally. All other things being equal, he would have retained his sense of desire and longing for sexual contact, but is physically unable to perform. He must be in a very dark place right now. Its incel, in reality, involuntary celibacy, but by circumstance rather than intent.

 

I feel really bad for him. His wife is hateful. She responded as poorly as possible to something totally out of his control. He said that he lost some of desire for sex. He explained it like, he wants to want sex. He was on a medication that restored that desire but stopped taking it when his wife stopped wanting to try. He made a comment that was something along the lines of "with a new partner I could wait as long as I needed to and go as slow as needed without it affecting me". I still wonder if it was directed towards me or not.

 

I can't understand why a loving wife wouldn't want to go down this road with her spouse. From her side, mental block that she has aside, she wouldn't be able to tell the difference. But, I suspect the aversion to this solution is the same as many women have against viagra or similar drugs. They are too invested in their own internal view of their physical desirability and want a mans reaction to that to be completely 'natural'. What those with this view seem to fail to realize is that the 'desire' part is fully functioning and very healthy, its just the physical reaction to that desire which needs some assistance.

 

I've never been in the position of having a spouse with his problem so I can't say for sure how I'd feel. But I really don't think it would matter to me. I don't see why it should. It seems immature to think needing assistance for the physical reaction is a personal thing.

 

For example. Did he court, date, build a friendship and _then_ have sex with the OW? Or did they pretty much just get to it on the first or second meet?

 

From what I know, they had sex right away. In the beginning it was just sex, a lot of it. Then they started seeing each other but not having sex. I went through his texts today, which I never do, and a few weeks ago he said he was going to a movie with a couple friends of his. Based on the texts he went with her, not his friends. It may have started off "innocent" but it progressed differently.

[BettyDraper]

Now that you have proof that your husband is in love with the other woman, what do you plan on doing with that information?

[stillafool]

I don't know... Somewhere to vent, or think. To be told enough times that I shouldn't be with him. At my core I know I shouldn't be with him. The awareness of that isn't always present. I don't want a divorce, sometimes I think I'm more afraid of that than actually leaving. I don't want to lose him, but how much of a marriage is it really...

 

 

 

You want to be told you shouldn't be with him yet you refuse to leave? So we are basically just wasting our time? If you want to stay with him it doesn't seem in either of your best interests to be on a forum where everyone is telling you that you shouldn't be with him. How can that help your marriage? If you tell us to keep telling you to leave him until you finally get the courage or he leaves with the OW; let us know that.

[JRP]

Now that you have proof that your husband is in love with the other woman, what do you plan on doing with that information?

 

Honestly, I don't know. My options are leave, stay knowing he loves someone else and try to justify it or stay and tell him to stop seeing her. The answer seems obvious but the choice isn't easy. Going through my mind is "maybe he was just saying that and didn't mean it", "maybe it was just part of the game/fun/need".

 

I don't want to tell him that I went through his phone while he was sleeping. I don't know how to bring this up to him. I don't go through his things...

 

If I stay I don't know if I'd ever trust him with someone else. Staying isn't healthy for me, I know that. So it shouldn't be this hard, but it is. I did this to myself, I let it happen. He fell in love with someone else right in front of me.

 

So I guess I ask him if he wants a divorce...

 

You want to be told you shouldn't be with him yet you refuse to leave? So we are basically just wasting our time? If you want to stay with him it doesn't seem in either of your best interests to be on a forum where everyone is telling you that you shouldn't be with him. How can that help your marriage? If you tell us to keep telling you to leave him until you finally get the courage or he leaves with the OW; let us know that.

 

That's rather rude... I should end my marriage the second a stranger snaps their fingers? Not even think about it just drop everything and leave as soon as I see the words "leave him" on a screen? I don't know what I want to do, or maybe I do and I don't have the courage to do it. Throwing away a marriage isn't as easy people make it out to be. No one is forcing you to be here.

[BaileyB]

Oh sweetie, I think it's pretty clear that he has formed a significant attachment to this woman and now you have the proof. And, even though you knew about it, I would still say that he is cheating on you. This is not an arrangement to get some sex on the side, he has two relationships right now and to be honest, she has something that he really wants that he doesn't have with you right now.

 

I'm sorry to say, this is really not a healthy relationship for you any more. You know this, now you need to decide what to do.

 

Just know, you seem like a lovely person and you deserve every happiness that you can find in this life. You are young, life will take you to places that you can't even imagine right now... Please continue with your therapy and focus on becoming a healthy, happy person again.

 

Best wishes to you.

[EZNona]

Please ignore posts that get upset when the OP doesn't drop everything and make immediate and significant life changes just because strangers on a message board say so...For whatever reason, some posters get really offended when you don't take their advice. If it were so easy, there would be no need for an advice/support form to begin with...

 

Back to the topic at hand...

 

I am really sorry to hear about the latest developments. That must have been awful for you to see.

 

Let's look at some of your options:

 

1) Ask him to leave the OW - I think this only need to lead to more resentment from your hubby to you. It may even cause him to become more persistent in you getting over your trauma; or he'd feel he has no other choice but to continue with this woman or another; or just ultimately leave the marriage. I think this option would cause a lot of stress for you both and put even more pressure on you.

 

2) Leaving things as is - There's no doubt, that your husband has fallen for this OW (whether it's love or lust is debatable) and this will only cause more hurt for you in the long run. It also still leaves the possibilty of him leaving you anyway for her or someone else.

 

3) Leaving the Husband - or some type of separation. Leaving him is not for his benefit so that he can be with the OW. No, it's so you can gain some clarity and maybe explore other options for yourself because the current setup is not working. You guys have created such a scenario that would no doubt set you both up for failure; and now you are at a crossroads of where to go from here.

 

and BailyB is right. You are so young and have so much future ahead of you. Yes, you have some things to overcome, but there is a solution that can lead to your happiness and to his as well. What you guys are doing now is not the solution.

 

And as hard as seeing those texts were...look at this situation as more of a blessing in disguise. The OW's husband has lit a small fire in you. I would call that hope and a small success towards your healing.

 

And to be honest, I would start talking to the OW's husband plenty if I were you...

 

Your husband didn't want you to build an emotional connect to OW's husband, but he has no problem starting a full-blown relationship with the OW. If my SO ever told another woman "I'd rather be with you", I would never be able to look him in the face again. Knowing that is too much to bear. That alone would allow me to set him free since that's clearly what he wants...

 

And there's no doubt the OW's husband sees the writing on the wall, as well. Maybe you two can join forces and support each other out of the hurt that has been made. And if not him, I hope you have friends/family to help you through this.

[oldshirt]

I've said this in other threads and I know there are some other factors taking place here, but I think bad sex (or no sex) is the body's way of telling us that we aren't with the right person.

 

I know you've had past trauma, but I would still bet the farm if you got with the right person, you could be sexual.

 

Yes, you may always have some hang ups and insecurities and such, but the more I read here, the more I'm thinking a significant part of your sexual dysfunction is due to relationship/comfort/attraction issues with your husband.

 

Now whether that percentage of issue is 20% on your husband and 80% on your trauma, or 72.5 on your trauma and 27.5% on your H I have no clue. But it is clear me that a good chunk of your sexual issue is do to your relationship or lack there of with your H.

 

On some core level, he knows this and that is why he has the issue with the OW's H. He probably saw you giggle and lean in at one his jokes or saw you bat your eyes or flair your hips at him and knew that you were getting those "tinglies" where as any moves he makes gets shot down immediately.

 

I'm just a common man and not all that smart and I am certainly no marital counselor, but I don't see how this marriage can last and i am not even sure it should.

 

I'll sound like a broken record and go back to asking if being in this while mess is better for you in the long run or worse?

[stillafool]

I don't know... Somewhere to vent, or think. To be told enough times that I shouldn't be with him. At my core I know I shouldn't be with him. The awareness of that isn't always present. I don't want a divorce, sometimes I think I'm more afraid of that than actually leaving. I don't want to lose him, but how much of a marriage is it really... I mean, where we live my husband could ask for an annulment because the marriage hasn't been consummated. Then it all just disappears like it never happened. A divorce is easier, and there is no legal advantage to an annulment, but he could have our marriage just... erased.

 

 

 

 

 

You want to be told you shouldn't be with him yet you refuse to leave? So we are basically just wasting our time? If you want to stay with him it doesn't seem in either of your best interests to be on a forum where everyone is telling you that you shouldn't be with him. How can that help your marriage? If you tell us to keep telling you to leave him until you finally get the courage or he leaves with the OW; let us know that.

 

I'm sorry I worded that wrong. I'm just wondering what is it that we can tell you to be supportive that wouldn't be a lie. You have decided that you are going to stay with your H no matter what. Yet every time you come to LS the popular advice is to leave and find a man with a similar condition. It would seem that if you are determined to stay that talking on LS would make you miserable about the state of your marriage. We are bringing up scenarios that you may not have even thought about which will cause insecurity and make you stress out. It doesn't help you being in that state if you have decided to stay with your husband while letting him have sex with the OW.

[elaine567]

I've always felt a b*tch-vibe about her.

 

And now you know why - you are "the enemy".

Without you and her "useless" husband, the path of true love would run smooth...

 

Leave them to it, is my advice. YOU are not really losing anything worth having.

YOU may however lose that horrible knot in your stomach as he walks out the door on his way to her.

 

Her husband may prove to be just one of the good guys on your path to recovery, he may or may not be the "love of your life", you may not have met "the one" in him, but at least he is helping you, and you need all the help you can get.

[JRP]

Yes, you may always have some hang ups and insecurities and such, but the more I read here, the more I'm thinking a significant part of your sexual dysfunction is due to relationship/comfort/attraction issues with your husband.

 

On some core level, he knows this and that is why he has the issue with the OW's H. He probably saw you giggle and lean in at one his jokes or saw you bat your eyes or flair your hips at him and knew that you were getting those "tinglies" where as any moves he makes gets shot down immediately.

 

I'll sound like a broken record and go back to asking if being in this whole mess is better for you in the long run or worse?

 

That's something that I have started to think as well. Sex is still an issue for me and probably always will be, but I think it would be easier with someone else. No doubt it would still be hard and I have my own issues, but I think it would be more likely. I'll never be able to have sex with my husband while he is sleeping with someone else. I am attracted to my husband, there are no issues there. I think if I didn't have these issues I'd love having sex with him, but I'll never know.

 

My husband hasn't cared about other male friends I have, though I don't have many. Just this one. Obviously he had reason because there was something there, at least on my end. He immediately started questioning if I'd rather be with him, sleep with him, etc. which tells me he knows it would (maybe) be easier with the other guy. Or at least that I have more in common with him.

 

If we divorce, in 10, 20, 30, 40 years from now I'd most likely be "over" this marriage and moved on with my life, whatever that will mean for me. If I'm still married to him in 10, 20, 30, 40 years this will probably still be an issue. I don't see a positive ending. Maybe that's because I'm hurt and pissed right now, but I don't see how we can make it work. With that knowledge, leaving the marriage will be better for me. It will suck and it will be hard and I'll probably regret it sometimes, but (hopefully) I'd be happier in the long term.

 

I'm sorry I worded that wrong. I'm just wondering what is it that we can tell you to be supportive that wouldn't be a lie. You have decided that you are going to stay with your H no matter what. Yet every time you come to LS the popular advice is to leave and find a man with a similar condition. It would seem that if you are determined to stay that talking on LS would make you miserable about the state of your marriage. We are bringing up scenarios that you may not have even thought about which will cause insecurity and make you stress out. It doesn't help you being in that state if you have decided to stay with your husband while letting him have sex with the OW.

 

I don't think I said that I'm for sure going to stay with him. Maybe it's just the way that I think (out loud) that makes it seem that way. For the record, I like other peoples perspectives and learning what could happen, it makes me feel more prepared, though yes it can cause unnecessary paranoia. In this case, it wasn't unnecessary.

 

And now you know why - you are "the enemy".

Without you and her "useless" husband, the path of true love would run smooth...

 

Leave them to it, is my advice. YOU are not really losing anything worth having.

YOU may however lose that horrible knot in your stomach as he walks out the door on his way to her.

 

Her husband may prove to be just one of the good guys on your path to recovery, he may or may not be the "love of your life", you may not have met "the one" in him, but at least he is helping you, and you need all the help you can get.

 

It makes me wonder if she has tried to get him to divorce me. She won't divorce her husband though so I have doubts.

 

Yeah, I feel like I'm the one that is losing everything and they are gaining everything. That's not really true though. I can't lose what I never really had. I should just walk away and let them be (and wish them misery).

 

I don't expect to find the love of my life in her husband, if I do great (hopefully they are divorced) but I'm happy just having him as a friend. I don't think I'm the kind of person that can get divorced (even in these circumstances) and jump to the next guy right away. If something ends up happening down the road then great, but I don't want to push for something and wind up right back where I am now.

[EZNona]

I think your head is clear as one could expect in this situation and with the new revelations. If you do decide to leave, I just hope he doesn't sweet talk you into staying in a marriage that seems to be hurtful to you both.

 

Even if he were to leave the OW, do you think you could ever reconcile the fact that he has slept with so many other women while married to you and even fell in love with at least one of them?

 

I think that knowledge would make you feel less incline to want to be intimate with him now or ever...