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I'm having trouble with our open marriage


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This isn't a standard separation and divorce. OP has literally never had sex with her husband. Never. Not once. Their marriage stands a good chance of qualifying for annulment as it was never consummated. If the marriage can be annulled, it legally never existed retroactively and OP is not entitled to anything of his nor is he entitled to anything of hers.

 

I think this depends on the jurisdiction tbh. Over here, where I live, it makes no difference. Literally none, under almost all circumstances. Even gay couples get to go down the separation of assets path (and here, they can't legally marry).

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I think this depends on the jurisdiction tbh. Over here, where I live, it makes no difference. Literally none, under almost all circumstances. Even gay couples get to go down the separation of assets path (and here, they can't legally marry).

 

OP clearly stated earlier in the thread that she was aware non-consummation was grounds for annulment where she lives.

 

I'm in the US. Here we don't have the protections for couples that live together without benefit of marriage that exist elsewhere. If the marriage is annulled, OP's claim to assets may become invalid as a marriage between them never existed legally.

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OP clearly stated earlier in the thread that she was aware non-consummation was grounds for annulment where she lives.

 

I'm in the US. Here we don't have the protections for couples that live together without benefit of marriage that exist elsewhere. If the marriage is annulled, OP's claim to assets may become invalid as a marriage between them never existed legally.

 

True. Perhaps it's better to split what they bought jointly and then each take what they came into the marriage with.

 

This is fair and shouldn't be contested by him.

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OP clearly stated earlier in the thread that she was aware non-consummation was grounds for annulment where she lives.

 

I'm in the US. Here we don't have the protections for couples that live together without benefit of marriage that exist elsewhere. If the marriage is annulled, OP's claim to assets may become invalid as a marriage between them never existed legally.

 

If we get an annulment (which is what he wants), our marriage is erased. Getting an annulment is more expensive and takes longer than a non-contested divorce. All of our assets have to be combed through with a fine tooth comb to try and give them back to who they belong to. Take the house for example, whatever payments we both paid into it is what we get back. The courts want to put as back where we started, like the marriage never happened.

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If we get an annulment (which is what he wants), our marriage is erased. Getting an annulment is more expensive and takes longer than a non-contested divorce. All of our assets have to be combed through with a fine tooth comb to try and give them back to who they belong to. Take the house for example, whatever payments we both paid into it is what we get back. The courts want to put as back where we started, like the marriage never happened.

 

 

How are you doing JRP? Are you able to get a flight home yet? Did you take your return ticket when you left the room or can you access it online?

 

Try not to cook yourself up in the hotel room, or you'll get cabin fever. Get out and walk around. Th fresh air will do you good.

 

Do speak to the Airline and see what they can do to help.

 

Unless you both kept very meticulous financial records, it's going to be difficult to determine who brought what.

 

If you tended to spend on a 50/50 basis, it will be easier, otherwise it will be a big job to dissect who paid for the various things like maintenance, refurbishments, new appliances, furniture etc

 

Wouldn't it just be easier to split the proceeds from the sale of the house and still have it as an annulment? Or if you both know that one person put more into it, or pays more towards it every month, then you can calculate the percentage difference accordingly.

 

I'm sure your lawyer will advise you on the next steps.

 

 

Take care of yourself and keep checking in if you can, so we know you're okay.

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I'm home now. I bought a new ticket, which was surprisingly cheaper than I expected. My husbands employer paid for the original tickets since it was a work trip, so I didn't really lose anything other than a comfortable seat. I don't think my husband even knows I left the country. Probably doesn't care either.

 

So I came home, I called a lawyer and set up an appointment so I can file for divorce. My husband might try to go for an annulment, you can file for both at the same time. An annulment will be very expensive but it's in his right to petition for one. I guess I have to wait and see if he will or not... I'd rather have an uncontested divorce and be done. He wants to erase the marriage entirely. The point of an annulment is to put us back where we were before we married, which is why they don't divide assets unless there is no way around it. Annulments are hard to get approved, and the lawyer I talked to said whoever my husband hires will likely try and talk him out of it. The length of the marriage, our assets and the fact that he was aware of my "condition" before we married will make it hard for him to get the annulment. Not impossible though.

 

I went to the bank and separated our accounts. He'll probably notice that soon because the option to select an account doesn't come up anymore. I'm going to start going through things that are mine so I can get them ready to leave. I didn't think we would get to this point...

 

Now I'm just sitting at home, in this home that I won't have much longer, looking at all the stuff we will have to sell or somehow agree on splitting. The lawyer said what usually happens with an annulment is everything goes back to the original owner. If we agree on who owns what than it's easy, if we don't we need "proof" of what we bought. Such as receipts or dated pictures (those I do have, because of home insurance I've had over the years). Things that we bought together, the value is written down and divided equally if we agree. So for example, our sectional couch we each paid half. It was $3000. We have a dining room table that we paid $2000 for and a TV stand that we paid $1000 for. If I got the couch he'd get the table and TV stand, if we agree... It's just stuff... I'd let him have what he wanted and take what he didn't.

 

I'm trying not to think about what he said, and what he did, but I have to keep thinking about it or I start to undermine the severity of it. It's too easy for me to decide in my mind that he didn't mean it, it wasn't as bad as I think, that I'm doing the wrong thing, etc. I have to constantly read this thread as a reminder not to back out now.

 

I know that I said some really terrible things to him as well, that to be honest I don't want to repeat here because it makes me look just as bad as he does. I meant every word... I normally wouldn't say them, but I didn't pull them out of my ass just to hurt him. I know it was the same for him... All these things that he has let build of for years.

 

What he physically did though, was worse than any words could be. The words hurt, and they are going to hurt for a long time, but the actions from someone who was supposed to love me and care for me, that hurts more. That we got to that point and that he was always capable of that. It honestly makes me want to shut down more.

 

Right now I'm still really pissed off. I know that isn't going to last and this all will hit me a lot harder than it is now... I'm not looking forward to that. I've done my fair share of crying but I don't think it was anything compared to what might come.

 

No one knows that I'm not right now, and I kind of like it that way. I can just be alone and wallow in my misery. With divorce comes all sorts of "I told you so's" that I'm not ready to hear.

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JRP, I just want to say...

 

You are an incredibly brave a strong woman! Your husband and the men who sexually assaulted you all those years ago may have victimized you, but you are not a victim anymore. You have shown great strength in that you have not tolerated his behavior and stood strong for yourself. You should be very proud of how you are handing this situation.

 

No doubt, once the shock has worn off you will have many different feelings. Just let them move through you and stay focused on your goal - taking your life back and moving towards a healthy and happy future!

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You have had a long time to process this situation and no doubt have run through all the options in your mind previously, for years really.

So whilst you may not have made any firm plans for divorce prior to this, I guess you are somewhat mentally prepared for it. I think that will stand you in good stead.

The sense of relief you may experience here, may also offset some of the more painful emotions.

 

I always think most find it easier to get over relationships when there is a cast iron reason to go, here you have a cast iron reason to go.

You will be fine.

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He knows he's been stringing you along and deceiving you as far as the OW is concerned. There are several things you've previously said, that indicated his attachment to her and he was clearly pulling away from you. I wonder if his horrible comment about you not being smart relates to this.

 

When he said the comment about me being stupid, based on the conversation it was in regards to me not noticing what was going on with the OW and that he wanted nothing to do with me (like you said) and for thinking the OW's H would leave her if I wanted to be with him. Which I don't think at all, my husband decided that on his own. And that I'd be stupid to go from one guy to another, both who are "with" the same woman. And for not realizing that she will always be better than me, even her H won't leave her. And for thinking I could ever have a man want me and want to marry me.

 

I know that I was stupid for thinking I could have a marriage or relationship. And probably more stupid for thinking we could salvage a marriage after opening it. He shouldn't have been with me in the first place.

 

He called my a casuist and said I'm no better than the religious teenagers who think anal sex is a way around sinning or losing their virginity, and said I'm too hung up on being a "virgin" that I won't sleep with him. A line he used was "You were f***ed by 5 dudes and got knocked up, there is nothing 'virgin' about you." Which is true, I don't consider myself a virgin and that has never been the reason I haven't had sex. I have never had consensual sex and he knew that. For years he tried to support me through it and knew how it hurt me, then he can come out and say things like that.

 

I can't remember how he worded it, nor do I want to, but he said something along the lines of... Even if I didn't want to have sex, he wanted to have sex with me so he'd be the last person 'inside' of me. I can't even wrap my head around that...

 

So when he started to get physical by trying to pull down my pants it scared me. And when he kept going after that point I was starting to just totally shut down and expect the worst, because that's all I know with sex... He took things farther than we had ever gone and he knew what that would do to me. Or not... Because he seems to think I was just a prude who wanted to hold a virgin status.

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What he did to you was meant to be hurtful. There is no excuse for his actions - they are horrific. Thank God you are no longer with this man. And yes, I think his actions will help you to move on from the relationship.

 

I will say it again though... You have every right to a happy, healthy relationship. Don't let this experience further traumatize and define you as a victim of sexual assault. There is every reason to think that with time, counselling, and the right man, you can have a happy and healthy sexual relationship.

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JRP, I just want to say...

 

You are an incredibly brave a strong woman! Your husband and the men who sexually assaulted you all those years ago may have victimized you, but you are not a victim anymore. You have shown great strength in that you have not tolerated his behavior and stood strong for yourself. You should be very proud of how you are handing this situation.

 

No doubt, once the shock has worn off you will have many different feelings. Just let them move through you and stay focused on your goal - taking your life back and moving towards a healthy and happy future!

 

Sometimes I wonder if I would be sitting here had he not got physical, or if I would have swept it under the rug like so many other things. It's irrelevant now, I suppose. That was my breaking point... In fight or flight, I flew (literally). I hope he doesn't come crawling back and somehow I cave in.

 

You have had a long time to process this situation and no doubt have run through all the options in your mind previously, for years really.

So whilst you may not have made any firm plans for divorce prior to this, I guess you are somewhat mentally prepared for it. I think that will stand you in good stead.

The sense of relief you may experience here, may also offset some of the more painful emotions.

 

I always think most find it easier to get over relationships when there is a cast iron reason to go, here you have a cast iron reason to go.

You will be fine.

 

I have always been waiting for him to leave or file for divorce, so it has always been in the back of my mind. So you are right, I've probably prepared myself over the years. It's not a big of a shock to me as it is to other people and I've already had time to get use to the idea. I have to keep being angry and keep reminding myself of why the marriage is really done to help me get over. At this point, it's almost like there is nothing left to get over. There hasn't been for a long time...

 

What he did to you was meant to be hurtful. There is no excuse for his actions - they are horrific. Thank God you are no longer with this man. And yes, I think his actions will help you to move on from the relationship.

 

I will say it again though... You have every right to a happy, healthy relationship. Don't let this experience further traumatize and define you as a victim of sexual assault. There is every reason to think that with time, counselling, and the right man, you can have a happy and healthy sexual relationship.

 

I think at some point I'll get to the point believing that. Right now I want to live as a hermit. Or give up on the male gender. I try to forget what my husband did because I don't feel like I can handle it. I need to have more trust in humanity than that.

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JRP, I would do exactly that too, live as a hermit for a while. You need some time to process what has happened and heal some wounds.

 

But, don't isolate yourself for too long because this is when depression sets in... When you are ready, spend time with friends, go out, exercise, do the things that you enjoy. Don't close yourself off entirely.

 

And please, when you are ready... go back to counselling. Just focus on healing yourself. Maybe your life will include another relationship with a wonderful man. Maybe it won't. But, do the work such that you will find peace of mind and happiness either way.

 

As Christopher Robbin once said...

"Promise me you will always remember, you are braver than you believe, stronger than you seem, and smarter than you know."

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I have always been waiting for him to leave or file for divorce, so it has always been in the back of my mind. So you are right, I've probably prepared myself over the years. It's not a big of a shock to me as it is to other people and I've already had time to get use to the idea. I have to keep being angry and keep reminding myself of why the marriage is really done to help me get over. At this point, it's almost like there is nothing left to get over. There hasn't been for a long time...

 

Exactly onward and upward.

YOU are a good and decent person, you deserve so much better then this.

I know it is difficult but try not to wallow.

YOU are 24 and free from a horrible situation that was dragging you down every day you were in it - the world is your oyster.

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I can't stop thinking about how when he tried to assault you, you fought him off and got away. His words and his actions were abusive, and you fought back!

 

You are not a victim anymore - you are a survivor!

 

Onward and upward for you, dear girl...

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I think the grounds for an annulment are the same around the world and this one most fits your situation

 

either party was physically incapable of consummating the marriage with the other, and such incapacity continues and appears to be incurable.

 

Maybe if it didn't end so explosively, he would have been okay with a divorce, but you did mention earlier in the thread that he'd probably want an annulment if you were to split.

 

I think we both knew he just wanted to be 'the one'. I don't think that's how it started off, but over time it got that way.

 

When he said the comment about me being stupid, based on the conversation it was in regards to me not noticing what was going on with the OW and that he wanted nothing to do with me

 

But you did notice, so you aren't stupid like he said. You were just too afraid to accept it. That's why you came back here with the 6 month update .... it was all about him getting closer to her, seeing her so often and sleeping out overnight etc. You said yourself he's fallen in love with her right in front of you.

 

Why didn't he have the guts to be a man and tell you that he was in love with her?Or just tell you it wasn't working and he couldn't do it anymore. There are 2 reasons I can think of.

 

1) He didn't want to hurt you and thought /hoped you would pull the plug based on his actions.

 

2) He can't be with the OW full time, because she's married and isn't divorcing her H (yet)

 

Not that it matters now, but I'm sure he was seeing her a lot more than he actually told you.

 

All the while, you were probably doing backflips to please him in every way possible (bar sexually), feeling you needed to compensate because intimacy wasn't possible.

 

I'm still horrified that he threw the rape at you like that. Everything he said about it was way out of order and crossed a line.

 

Perhaps one thing to take from this, is not to let fear grip you and prevent you from doing what you know you is right for you.

 

Deep down in your heart, you knew that a split was better for both of you. The unknown can be scary, but it's usually better than the hell you're living in.

 

And ... I know you want to be like a hermit, but be careful that by isolating yourself, you don't fall into a depression. You've suffered enough and you're now free of watching your husband walk out and have sex with OW, further damaging your mental health and self esteem.

 

Time to look after you.

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When he said the comment about me being stupid, based on the conversation it was in regards to me not noticing what was going on with the OW and that he wanted nothing to do with me (like you said) and for thinking the OW's H would leave her if I wanted to be with him. Which I don't think at all, my husband decided that on his own. And that I'd be stupid to go from one guy to another, both who are "with" the same woman. And for not realizing that she will always be better than me, even her H won't leave her. And for thinking I could ever have a man want me and want to marry me.

 

I know that I was stupid for thinking I could have a marriage or relationship. And probably more stupid for thinking we could salvage a marriage after opening it. He shouldn't have been with me in the first place.

 

He called my a casuist and said I'm no better than the religious teenagers who think anal sex is a way around sinning or losing their virginity, and said I'm too hung up on being a "virgin" that I won't sleep with him. A line he used was "You were f***ed by 5 dudes and got knocked up, there is nothing 'virgin' about you." Which is true, I don't consider myself a virgin and that has never been the reason I haven't had sex. I have never had consensual sex and he knew that. For years he tried to support me through it and knew how it hurt me, then he can come out and say things like that.

 

I can't remember how he worded it, nor do I want to, but he said something along the lines of... Even if I didn't want to have sex, he wanted to have sex with me so he'd be the last person 'inside' of me. I can't even wrap my head around that...

 

So when he started to get physical by trying to pull down my pants it scared me. And when he kept going after that point I was starting to just totally shut down and expect the worst, because that's all I know with sex... He took things farther than we had ever gone and he knew what that would do to me. Or not... Because he seems to think I was just a prude who wanted to hold a virgin status.

 

 

DISGUSTING.

 

JRP, you are a saint. Seriously. He is so lucky. I'm not one to ever advocate violence, but I would have punched him dead in his chin after that. Sorry, but I am really not sorry to say that.

 

Somehow he has become worse than those 5 idiots.

 

I think it's normal to feel/wish this didn't happen and to even try to minimize it because no one wants believe that their spouse is capable of such vile behaviors. But just as horrifying it is for us to read what happened that means it was even more horrifying in real time.

 

And you are definitely a brave woman and stronger than you even realize. I've read many threads with deplorable spousal treatments such as this where the OP's waver and wonder what to do for days, weeks....and here you have taken action RIGHT AWAY.

 

You should be proud that you cared enough about yourself and your well-being to bring yourself to immediate safety and have started to get all your ducks in a row.

 

You will get through this and be better off without that pitiful excuse of a 'husband' around.

 

I know you're not ready to let people know, but hopefully you'll be able to get some support where you live be it either a close friend, family member, or support group. There is strength in numbers. And of course, those of us keeping up with your thread will definitely be there for you.

 

Stay strong, my dear

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ShatteredLady

I've always believed that if a person is close enough, intimate & open enough for you to know exactly the words that will hurt them the most, cut them the deepest, you should be decent & NEVER utter those words!!

 

I'm so sorry that it's come to this. Adultery changes people into the worst versions of themselves in so very many ways.

 

Love should be honest & pure. The self deception necessary to allow oneself to pursue 'love' whilst loving another is an ugly thing. The false justifications targeted at one once loved do come home to haunt anyone with any depth of character....they must!...I need to retain some faith in the human race.

 

I'm so sorry. My heart breaks for you. No-one should ever experience the nightmares that you have. I truly believe that happiness will be in your future. Please don't give-up on mankind. There is much beauty in the world...even if it evades us at times.

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JRP, your story has touched me, and I'm so sorry your life has dealt you so many challenges. But a lesser woman would've caved, you should be proud of your direction now, your life is on a better path.

 

For me, when I got a divorce, I made the decision to never go back. And someone smarter than me said, imagine how much better your life will be this time next year. They were right.

 

Best of luck, I wish you only the best! :bunny:

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When is he due back home? Have you thought about a plan for dealing with him? Do you have somewhere you can go? Do you think he will agree to go somewhere else?

 

I think you need to do everything possible to avoid being in his presence, certainly on your own, for, at minimum, a long time.

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You are doing the right thing by getting away from him and this situation.

 

I know it seems heartbreaking and the thought of being single again may seem daunting, but this is very toxic for you and now it has become downright physically dangerous for you.

 

Being with him now is far worse for you than being on your own.

 

The next few months are going to difficult and unstable for you, but you have at least 50+ more good years left in you and a year from now you will be leaving a much more stable and healthy life and you will be able to focus on your recovery and there is limit to what you can accomplish and no limit to where you can go.

 

This whole scenario is like a plane spiraling out of the sky towards the ground and your only option for survival is put on your parachute and get out.

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When is he due back home? Have you thought about a plan for dealing with him? Do you have somewhere you can go? Do you think he will agree to go somewhere else?

 

I think you need to do everything possible to avoid being in his presence, certainly on your own, for, at minimum, a long time.

 

He will be home on Friday. I plan to have my main stuff out and gone before he gets home. It's amazing how quickly you can pack when you want to... I don't want to see him at all. It's hard to do that but I have to. I have been looking at rentals and I found a place that's available right now so I've been taking stuff over.

 

I want to do everything I can to avoid seeing him. Seeing him will be really hard. He hasn't tried to contact me at all since I left, which to me says he doesn't care at all. He doesn't know that I flew home, won't know where I'll be. The lawyer that I have said usually they don't recommend leaving the house like that but in my situation I need to.

 

I haven't told anyone that we're separating/divorcing. Right now I just want to deal with it myself. The OW's husband knows, but that's it, and I only told him since his wife is involved. He came over last night, which still feels weird. He helped me move some things. I didn't really want to talk, I'm trying to get it all off my mind right now or forget about it. I'm trying not to think about my husband at all (so I apologize if it seems like I'm ignoring some posts). He stayed the night... which just feels weird. Weird having another man in my (marital) house, weird sleeping next to another man, weird being comfortable with him staying.

 

Nothing happened, obviously. He's just a friend to me, and that's all I want him to be. I was upset so we were sitting on the couch watching some comedies/standup. One side of my sectional pushes out into a double bed so we were laying next to each other watching the show. We were really close to each other and every time he touched me I got tingly. I kept having feelings/thoughs of wanting him to be closer to me, touch me, kiss me, which I've never had before. With my husband it was more thoughts like "please don't touch me" rather than "please do touch me". I try and shove those thoughts aside because that's not happening. He had his arm/hand on my abdomen most of the time and everything before he moved he'd say that he was going to move. It helped a lot... With my husband when he'd be touching me somewhere and move I'd have a moment of being really nervous about where he was going to put it. There was no surprises with him warning me before he moved, I liked it. He fell asleep while we were watching and I didn't wake him up. Purely selfish reasons, I liked having him there, I liked not being alone, I felt more comfortable, a bit of jealousy over him going home. I fell asleep really easily, which isn't normal for me, especially recently. He didn't mind, we woke up at 7 this morning and he apologized for falling asleep. We went out and got breakfast then he left. He texted me a little while ago and said his wife knew that he didn't go home last night and assumed that he was with me, he didn't give her an answer but that will mean my husband will know. Which is why I don't want anything with him. I want out of that crapfest, not back in. I guess it's irrelevant what my husband thinks. Part of me is almost happy that he would be wondering what happened, like I always have had to do.

 

Thankfully I'm not supposed to even be home yet so I still have time off to get my things out of this house. I know I will have to tell people soon, right now I'm enjoying my own little bubble.

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He will be home on Friday. I plan to have my main stuff out and gone before he gets home. It's amazing how quickly you can pack when you want to... I don't want to see him at all. It's hard to do that but I have to. I have been looking at rentals and I found a place that's available right now so I've been taking stuff over.

 

I want to do everything I can to avoid seeing him. Seeing him will be really hard. He hasn't tried to contact me at all since I left, which to me says he doesn't care at all. He doesn't know that I flew home, won't know where I'll be. The lawyer that I have said usually they don't recommend leaving the house like that but in my situation I need to.

 

I haven't told anyone that we're separating/divorcing. Right now I just want to deal with it myself. The OW's husband knows, but that's it, and I only told him since his wife is involved. He came over last night, which still feels weird. He helped me move some things. I didn't really want to talk, I'm trying to get it all off my mind right now or forget about it. I'm trying not to think about my husband at all (so I apologize if it seems like I'm ignoring some posts). He stayed the night... which just feels weird. Weird having another man in my (marital) house, weird sleeping next to another man, weird being comfortable with him staying.

 

Nothing happened, obviously. He's just a friend to me, and that's all I want him to be. I was upset so we were sitting on the couch watching some comedies/standup. One side of my sectional pushes out into a double bed so we were laying next to each other watching the show. We were really close to each other and every time he touched me I got tingly. I kept having feelings/thoughs of wanting him to be closer to me, touch me, kiss me, which I've never had before. With my husband it was more thoughts like "please don't touch me" rather than "please do touch me". I try and shove those thoughts aside because that's not happening. He had his arm/hand on my abdomen most of the time and everything before he moved he'd say that he was going to move. It helped a lot... With my husband when he'd be touching me somewhere and move I'd have a moment of being really nervous about where he was going to put it. There was no surprises with him warning me before he moved, I liked it. He fell asleep while we were watching and I didn't wake him up. Purely selfish reasons, I liked having him there, I liked not being alone, I felt more comfortable, a bit of jealousy over him going home. I fell asleep really easily, which isn't normal for me, especially recently. He didn't mind, we woke up at 7 this morning and he apologized for falling asleep. We went out and got breakfast then he left. He texted me a little while ago and said his wife knew that he didn't go home last night and assumed that he was with me, he didn't give her an answer but that will mean my husband will know. Which is why I don't want anything with him. I want out of that crapfest, not back in. I guess it's irrelevant what my husband thinks. Part of me is almost happy that he would be wondering what happened, like I always have had to do.

 

Thankfully I'm not supposed to even be home yet so I still have time off to get my things out of this house. I know I will have to tell people soon, right now I'm enjoying my own little bubble.

 

The bolded sentence proves that you have the capacity to be sexual with another man as long as he is loving and respectful. I don't blame you for calling the OW's husband and I'm glad he helped you move. He sounds like a great friend to you which is what you need right now. I could see this developing into a romance after you have healed from your hellish marriage.

 

Good for you for taking steps to end your marriage. It shows strength that you are refusing to tolerate sexual and emotional abuse from your husband. I'm glad that you were able to find a rental so quickly.

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