No wonder (some) men struggle

[BlueIris]

Not to demean anyone but there are a lot of guys that have had little to virtually no attention from women their whole lives..And just because someone is more educated doesn't translate into success with the opposite sex...Plenty of highly educated men spend their nights watching porn with Palmela and her 5 sisters.....

 

Common sense would dictate that if those men found a taker, that they'd try to lock that down with marriage...

 

I'd say that aspect has a lot to do with why a guy would want to jump into m.. ..

 

.I really think most women underestimate the importance guys place on "having their stuff"....as in their .,hobbies ,cars, boats, motorcycles,tools, etc....A divorced guy living in a dumpy apartment, and eating off a hot plate, that's been stripped of all of that is gonna feel like a fish out of water,...He finds a woman willing to take him in and help him get his stuff back and let him set up in her house is going to look very appealing/...

 

After thinking about this topic for a while, none of my own male peers in my circle of contacts(friends,family, business associates, etc) has remarried.....none.....Most of them are with younger women, and practically all are high income earners and Type A's.,,,They have their own places and didn't lose their stuff or was able to replace it because they could afford to..

 

.02 ...But as they say.....Your mileage may vary....

 

TFY

 

While it may be true that some men marry because they have “lost” in some competition for the attention and admiration of many women, there are men who don’t care about getting lots of attention from lots of women. Many of those men want a primary relationship and a family life and view that as success, as successful personal life. They aren’t just losers with no better choice and they don’t buy the premise that all or most men want a throng of admirers to choose from. Some truly don't care about that particular hierarchy or competition

 

When I was growing up they were called family men- respected, enjoyed, an important part of the community. On the other hand, men who wanted or needed the admiration of many women to feel successful weren’t necessarily so admired or envied.

Edited May 8, 2016 by BlueIris

[Aniela]

While it may be true that some men marry because they have “lost” in some competition for the attention and admiration of many women, there are men who don’t care about getting lots of attention from lots of women. Many of those men want a primary relationship and a family life and view that as success, as successful personal life. They aren’t just losers with no better choice and they don’t buy the premise that all or most men want a throng of admirers to choose from. Some truly don't care about that particular hierarchy or competition

 

When I was growing up they were called family men- respected, enjoyed, an important part of the community. On the other hand, men who wanted or needed the admiration of many women to feel successful weren’t necessarily so admired or envied.

 

Agreed. I don't think I know one man who married someone, just because she said yes. I was once pursued by a young man like that, and it was one of the reasons I wouldn't go out with him (aside from the fact that I wasn't interested in the first place). The guy was practically stalking me, along with his mother. If there had ever been a first date, I can imagine his mother being there, too.

 

I laughed when dad told me about one girl he was going to ask out, in high school, until she said that she wanted to get married, and have five children. Instead, he married a London girl. He didn't need love and admiration from many, didn't need or want to sleep around - he was smitten with my mother, and she married him. She was choosy, as well, and dated a lot (didn't sleep around, just dated, had a few boyfriends). Neither one of them were desperate.

 

I don't understand why a few men here, are so concerned with convincing us that men don't like to be married, and don't actually love their wives. That we're the ball and chains around their necks, keeping them from fulfilling dreams of sleeping with beautiful young women, or the depressing alternative for the desperate.

[BlueIris]

Agreed. I don't think I know one man who married someone, just because she said yes. I was once pursued by a young man like that, and it was one of the reasons I wouldn't go out with him (aside from the fact that I wasn't interested in the first place). The guy was practically stalking me, along with his mother. If there had ever been a first date, I can imagine his mother being there, too.

 

I laughed when dad told me about one girl he was going to ask out, in high school, until she said that she wanted to get married, and have five children. Instead, he married a London girl. He didn't need love and admiration from many, didn't need or want to sleep around - he was smitten with my mother, and she married him. She was choosy, as well, and dated a lot (didn't sleep around, just dated, had a few boyfriends). Neither one of them were desperate.

 

I don't understand why a few men here, are so concerned with convincing us that men don't like to be married, and don't actually love their wives. That we're the ball and chains around their necks, keeping them from fulfilling dreams of sleeping with beautiful young women, or the depressing alternative for the desperate.

 

It's very Rodney Dangerfield.

[Woggle]

I very much prefer the love and admiration of my wife but I would choose being with many women over one who hated being married to me.

Edited May 8, 2016 by Woggle
Typo

[BlueIris]

I very much prefer the love and admiration of my (partner) but I would choose being with many ( ) over one who hated being married to me.

 

Gender neutralize it and I bet that this is a universal feeling. Nothing is worse that being tied to someone who hates being with you, for sure!

 

A close second is being tied to someone who doesn’t care about you one way or the other.

 

From Kamille’s original post:

This could explain why so many men struggle on the dating market. The bottom line is: women are happy single.

 

I know this applies to me. I would rather be single than in a relationship with just anyone. If I'm going to have to pick up and wash your socks, you better be ****ing awesome.

 

Again, you could gender-neutralize it and it would still be true. Wanting to be admired by many or to pick from a throng, or thinking that marriage is the domain of the loser, is far short of being “****ing awesome” as a spouse. Or maybe it's best to have an open marriage or do swinging if that’s the case.

Edited May 8, 2016 by BlueIris
clarify

[thefooloftheyear]

While it may be true that some men marry because they have “lost” in some competition for the attention and admiration of many women, there are men who don’t care about getting lots of attention from lots of women. Many of those men want a primary relationship and a family life and view that as success, as successful personal life. They aren’t just losers with no better choice and they don’t buy the premise that all or most men want a throng of admirers to choose from. Some truly don't care about that particular hierarchy or competition

 

When I was growing up they were called family men- respected, enjoyed, an important part of the community. On the other hand, men who wanted or needed the admiration of many women to feel successful weren’t necessarily so admired or envied.

 

 

 

All men care about getting attention from women...And yes, the guys that get a lot of attention are usually desired most by women..."traditional" or not...

 

 

There are actually guys that are lucky to have had sex with 2 women in their entire lives(80 plus years)....In between there were decades where they were/are consistently rejected-time in and time out....Yes...Those types of guys will grasp desperately for a woman that finally sees them as desirable...I don't know what's so hard to understand...

 

Conversely there are many "family" men who never had any trouble getting attention from women....Tons of these guys are out there...Heck, I'm one of them...They found(hopefully) the right woman and they went in for marriage...Sometimes it worked and often times it didn't...

 

But yeah, for a lot of those guys(and I know many) they married the first woman who let them in, so to speak...They think its like something that if they don't capitalize on and lock down, it will never happen again in their entire life...

 

Does that make them better or worse than the rest of us? No...To each their own..

 

TFY

[BlueIris]

It’s pretty cool that we each know different men, and how different individuals can be.

[Woggle]

Of course you can gender neutralise it but according to this thread and many other sources women hate being married to men. If this is true why not encourage man to play around rather than subjecting a woman this misery? I think many younger men afraid of ending with a woman who resents being with him.

[BlueIris]

Of course you can gender neutralise it but according to this thread and many other sources women hate being married to men. If this is true why not encourage man to play around rather than subjecting a woman this misery? I think many younger men afraid of ending with a woman who resents being with him.

 

Ohferheavensake, that is not what the original post said. It said that on the average single women are happier than married women. If that translates to "women hate being married to men" in your mind, you're missing the point and the opportunity to ponder how to make a good marriage IF you're married or want to be.

[Kamille]

A few guys are posting that this is great because it means more women are hooking up. I'm not sure if they hope this is somehow upsetting to women. I say bring it on. If I can find a FWB who turns me on and is actually a friend, I'll be even happier.

 

And I would consider it a good thing if the studies were wrong and single men are on average having the time of their lives.

 

Really, it's not a war. I know men, I care about them and I wish them well. I have nothing to gain from men's misery. Suspicious /angry /insecure men make poor dates and horrible lovers.

 

It could also be that everyone is happier in general with the dating scene nowadays and that the differences are just differences in degrees. At the same time, LS alone lets us know many people are struggling with dating and relationships.

[Woggle]

I don't think men or women are that happy with the dating scene these days. There is a ton of animosity and bitterness on both sides.

[mrldii]

...according to this thread and many other sources women hate being married to men.

 

I missed this part of the OP. Where, exactly, did it say - or allude - that "[all] women hate being married to men"?

 

 

Since it didn't say that, it begs the question: Why is that what you chose to read it as saying, instead of what it actually said?

 

Full circle, again; indeed, why (some) men struggle: they see what they want to see. Doesn't matter if the glass is "half-full" or "half-empty"...it's just simply "never enough".

[dustin2016]

Yep! Whether evolutionary or socially, women have many reasons and now the means to be more selective.

 

On the social side: Men stand to benefit the most from successful relationships. They get more access to care (which is otherwise starkly lacking) and their housework load diminishes. Women, on the other hand, have to provide more care and their housework load increase.

 

What an archaic and backwards way of thinking.

 

In what modern part of the world is the woman still expected to carry more of the housework and give more of the care? The division of work between me and my wife was simple, who ever is working the least , helps the most around the house. This was fluid and interchangeable day to day. And in fact, there were many times when Id take my wifes share of the household duties if she was on her monthly, or just having a bad day. And shed happily do the same for me if I was having a rough day or if she just wanted to be kind.

 

If were referencing studies that rely upon the basis of women doing most of the house work.. these clearly arent modern studies comparing men and women who treat each other as equals.. And of course women would be happier single if were comparing that to marriages where they are simply a hired maid / sex worker..

 

To this day there are things I would never allow my woman to do, such as carry out the trash. A wifes hands and fingers should always be clean, and never touch anything foul unless that fowl thing is her husband..

[mrldii]

...If were referencing studies that rely upon the basis of women doing most of the house work.. these clearly arent modern studies comparing men and women who treat each other as equals...

 

Is 2013 "modern" enough of a study?

 

Working moms still take on bulk of household chores

 

According to studies, women spend a total of 2 hours, 13 minutes on household chores, as compared to men who spend 1 hour, 21 minutes.

 

Full-time working mothers spend just under 2 hours per day on household chores, while full-time working fathers spend 1 hour, 18 minutes.

 

To boot, the *chores* most men do (auto maintenance, lawn mowing, car washing, doing the taxes, etc.) are the ones most likely to be farmed out, by paying someone else to do them.

 

According to the study, however, things are a-changin': 35% of millennial men handle the laundry, while only 23% of boomer men do.

 

 

That's nice that things are more evenly distributed in your household, but it is NOT the majority case, at all, nor what the statistics bear out.

[Kamille]

What an archaic and backwards way of thinking.

 

In what modern part of the world is the woman still expected to carry more of the housework and give more of the care? The division of work between me and my wife was simple, who ever is working the least , helps the most around the house. This was fluid and interchangeable day to day. And in fact, there were many times when Id take my wifes share of the household duties if she was on her monthly, or just having a bad day. And shed happily do the same for me if I was having a rough day or if she just wanted to be kind.

 

If were referencing studies that rely upon the basis of women doing most of the house work.. these clearly arent modern studies comparing men and women who treat each other as equals.. And of course women would be happier single if were comparing that to marriages where they are simply a hired maid / sex worker..

 

..

 

One can always dream that your modernity soon reaches everyone.

 

Thanks mrldii for citing one of the current studies.

[Woggle]

Unless we are in each person's house there is no way of knowing who does what. How do they even take these studies? I am not saying it is or isn't true but how do they know without studying each household?

[Kamille]

Unless we are in each person's house there is no way of knowing who does what. How do they even take these studies? I am not saying it is or isn't true but how do they know without studying each household?

One of two way:

They usually ask a representative amount of people to track their daily activities for a week.

 

Lesser quality studies ask people to estimate.

 

These studies are pretty much staples of social stats. Either you believe in science or you don't, but questioning the validity of these studies is like questionning the census.

[Jabron1]

Unless we are in each person's house there is no way of knowing who does what. How do they even take these studies? I am not saying it is or isn't true but how do they know without studying each household?

 

I agree. I don't put much on those 'studies' at all. You have to question the base motivation as well.

 

My experiences are paramount to me, and have served me much better than any 'study' ever will.

[Shining One]

Are there any studies in which the respondents clearly define what "full-time" means? If Person A's full-time is 50 hours and Person B's full-time is 40 hours, it makes sense for Person B to cover more of the household chores.

[Kamille]

I agree. I don't put much on those 'studies' at all. You have to question the base motivation as well.

 

My experiences are paramount to me, and have served me much better than any 'study' ever will.

 

So you don't believe in science.

 

The problem with your statement is that your experiences are of little value to people who've experienced other things. And then you're left with battles of opinions. Granted, you seem to enjoy those.

 

But science is better

[Woggle]

I agree. I don't put much on those 'studies' at all. You have to question the base motivation as well.

 

My experiences are paramount to me, and have served me much better than any 'study' ever will.

 

I agree. Every study comes with an agenda no matter what it is. Nobody what your view you can go on google and pull up a study that backs up your claims. I actually saw a study that said men who do housework actually get divorced more often but again that one has an agenda as well. The best judge is real life experience.

[Jabron1]

So you don't believe in science.

 

Bit of a stretch to call this 'science'.

 

The problem with your statement is that your experiences are of little value to people who've experienced other things.

 

I'm not really that bothered.

 

And then you're left with battles of opinions. Granted, you seem to enjoy those.

 

Calling people belligerent can be belligerent.

 

But science is better

 

The BBC kept making 'studies' regarding the Scottish Independence referendum. Turned out the numbers were dodgy, and that the BBC were showing a bias in favour of trying to get Scotland to stay within the UK.

 

They tried to have the professor that proved this fired from his university

 

The BBC has done the same thing for a number of other issues as well.

[Kamille]

One can choose to rely on their experience alone to understand the social world.

 

Or, one can use social sciences, yes, the science that cumulates everyone's experiences to try to understand the larger picture.

 

 

 

Note: I never used the word belligerent to describe anyone.

[Kamille]

So are you guys giving up? The argument "we don't believe in studies" is usually what people say when they've run out all other arguments.

[thefooloftheyear]

I think I am gonna post a link that confirms (scientifically/statistically)that women are far worse drivers than men and men are actually getting shafted, because they should be paying less for car insurance than women, but the insurance companies don't have the balls to enact it....

 

 

Then i am going to stand back and watch all the female posters say its bullshyt...

 

(go ahead and look it up.....its there.)

 

TFY