No wonder (some) men struggle

[mrldii]

Perhaps its because they may be seeking a haven(financially) after getting their head bashed in when going through a divorce....

 

We could suppose and speculate as to why it might be, as suppositions and speculations are bound only by our own predeterminations and biases...

 

...or we could turn to the actual researchers who conducted the studies to ascertain the "whys" and "wherefores" of it all...

 

"...Women are encouraged to go on an emotional journey of self-care after a divorce, while men are expected to need help learning how to cook and parent on their own..."

 

"...A working woman doesn’t necessarily want to 'walk right back into the same sort of situation from which she just extricated herself,' he said, and the unequal distribution of household chores may have something to do with it..."

 

"...Maybe it’s because marriage has its share of benefits for men — married men are healthier[/url] and better off financially than unmarried men..."

 

[Liam1]

Why so cynical?

 

My dad loves being married. He says that his family is the best part of his life. Am I to assume that he's lying, based on a few posts here? I don't think that I will.

 

Not cynical. Just realistic. I think as a man I have a better inside tract into the mind of a marketable male, than a woman does.

 

As for whether or not you should ASSUME your father is lying.

 

Personally, I think SOMETIMES people say a lot of nice things to the people they love that they do not REALLY mean. Sometimes it is to placate others. Sometimes it is to delude themselves or to convince themselves of something

 

Is your dad lying?

 

I have no clue. You need to make that decision on your own. I never met your dad. I Do not know what type of mindset he has or what he looks like.

 

Do you think your dad is lying?

[Aniela]

Not cynical. Just realistic. I think as a man I have a better inside tract into the mind of a marketable male, than a woman does.

 

As for whether or not you should ASSUME your father is lying.

 

Personally, I think SOMETIMES people say a lot of nice things to the people they love that they do not REALLY mean. Sometimes it is to placate others. Sometimes it is to delude themselves or to convince themselves of something

 

Is your dad lying?

 

I have no clue. You need to make that decision on your own. I never met your dad. I Do not know what type of mindset he has or what he looks like.

 

Do you think your dad is lying?

 

Of course not. But you seem to have taken it upon yourself to speak for all men.

[Liam1]

Of course not. But you seem to have taken it upon yourself to speak for all men.

 

I think it is obvious that no one can speak for everyone.

 

Are you claiming that your father or you speaks for everyone? I am confused.

 

I think we are talking about a majority of men. And the marketable type of male that does not need to get married to ensure having sex.

 

Studies that have been posted only study a very small percentage of men.

 

And, those are the type of men who are willing to engage in study that relies on self reporting.

 

Self reporting is very unreliable. And a study of a 1000 or even 100,000 men is a very tiny percentage of the population at large.

[thefooloftheyear]

 

"...Maybe it’s because marriage has its share of benefits for men — married men are healthier and better off financially than unmarried men..."

 

Why Divorced Men Are Quick To Marry Again

 

well what do you know

 

I guess if I was a guy that married a woman primarily so I can get my stuff back and not live like a dog, Id probably lie about it to the researcher that asked me and come up with another more palatable reason....but call me cynical if you want..

 

TFY

Edited May 6, 2016 by thefooloftheyear

[mrldii]

well what do you know

 

I guess if I was a guy that married a woman primarily so I can get my stuff back and not live like a dog, Id probably lie about it to the researcher that asked me and come up with another more palatable reason....but call me cynical if you want..

 

You should have actually clicked on the link I'd provided; it did not allude to males' overriding need/desire to 'get back that which he lost in his previous divorce', but rather that people who can handle their finances are more apt to re/marry than those who are financially-challenged, whether it be through their own poor choices or life's harsh realities which include the fact that being a drive-through order-taker at a fast-food restaurant just doesn't pay as much as being a CPA at a national company.

 

 

But, I understand the premise of your position: men who say they're happy re/married and/or who give reasons as to why they prefer to be re/married

 

 

are lying.

[thefooloftheyear]

You should have actually clicked on the link I'd provided; it did not allude to males' overriding need/desire to 'get back that which he lost in his previous divorce', but rather that people who can handle their finances are more apt to re/marry than those who are financially-challenged, whether it be through their own poor choices or life's harsh realities which include the fact that being a drive-through order-taker at a fast-food restaurant just doesn't pay as much as being a CPA at a national company.

 

 

But, I understand the premise of your position: men who say they're happy re/married and/or who give reasons as to why they prefer to be re/married

 

 

are lying.

 

No, I didn't say they were lying...........The point is that people, by nature, aren't going to reveal their true intentions when asked by another random person in the street, if it will make them look bad....Its just common sense...

 

What would you expect a woman to say if she married a guy primarily for his money..? that's she's a gold digger? No, Im sure she'd say she was captivated by his magnificent eyes...

 

I don't put much faith in "studies" that are usually just skewed to make a person's point...I'm sure I can find a study that says drinking a 12 pack after dinner is good for your health..

 

But believe whatever you want, thats your right...It's pointless to make these arguments, because perhaps like you, most women don't really ever truly understand what motivates the majority of men....Not being critical....believe me, men don't know anything about women either....Was the author of the piece a woman?...I didnt bother to look, but Ill take a WAG and say yes...

 

TFY

Edited May 6, 2016 by thefooloftheyear

[thefooloftheyear]

Here is another study...

 

Why men won't marry you | Fox News

 

Interesting quote

 

When more women make themselves sexually available, the pool of marriageable men diminishes. “In a world where women do not say no, the man is never forced to settle down and make serious choices,” writes George Gilder, author of "Men and Marriage."

 

Hmm....This is what I alluded to previously...

 

TFY

[Jabron1]

Here is another study...

 

Why men won't marry you | Fox News

 

Interesting quote

 

When more women make themselves sexually available, the pool of marriageable men diminishes. “In a world where women do not say no, the man is never forced to settle down and make serious choices,” writes George Gilder, author of "Men and Marriage."

 

Hmm....This is what I alluded to previously...

 

TFY

 

 

The more readily attainable something (sex) is, the more it loses it's value.

 

I look around at all of my friends, and the ones who were quick to marry were the ones that were always struggling to get laid. That isn't a coincidence at all.

 

Which kind of takes us back to the original point back on the first page...

 

I completely agree. Too many guys are playing the 21st century dating scene like its 1947 or something.

 

 

 

So... you think the trend is going the way of even more sex without serious commitment?

 

Something tells me that men won't mind.

 

[mrldii]

...Was the author of the piece a woman?...I didnt bother to look, but Ill take a WAG and say yes...

 

Had you bothered to look, you would have realized there wasn't A singular author "of the piece"; it was a hotlinked compilation of several studies.

 

No, the "author" of the 2009 study Marital Events of Americans: 2009 was not a woman; the Census Bureau Director when the data was gathered was Kenneth Prewitt. I'm assuming that is a man; the "authors" of the study are the actual members of the 2000 population of the United States.

 

Augustine Kposowa conducted the study which determined divorced men commit suicide at over twice the rate of married men.

 

David and John Gallacher were the researchers who conducted the study that bore out the data that married men are healthier than single men.

 

Richard Fry (presumably a man) and D'Vera Cohn (presumably a woman) conducted the research for the Pew Research Center which concluded married men are financially better off than unmarried men, nowadays.

 

 

I'm not sure what the gender of the researchers has to do with the subject matter of the studies and the actual, factual and raw data that is drawn; research studies are not opinion pieces...no matter how well - or ill - informed the researcher may personally be on the matter at hand.

 

 

Personally, I prefer to base on my opinions on actual, statistically-verifiable and supported information rather than 'someone of my same gender once wrote a book, which I found in the non-fiction section, that resonates with me, based on what I already believe to be true.'

 

 

But, hey...that's just me. This isn't the first time my penchant for interjecting actual facts into an otherwise lively debate and discussion has ruffled some feathers and caused discomfort.

 

[xxoo]

Here is another study...

 

Why men won't marry you | Fox News

 

Interesting quote

 

When more women make themselves sexually available, the pool of marriageable men diminishes. “In a world where women do not say no, the man is never forced to settle down and make serious choices,” writes George Gilder, author of "Men and Marriage."

 

Hmm....This is what I alluded to previously...

 

TFY

 

The most interesting thing about that study is how education relates to men's marital rates. This image is from the Pew Research study, which is the source behind the Fox News opinion piece:

 

Education and Marriage: Shifting Patterns for Women and Men | Pew Research Center

 

Men with high educational levels are marrying at the same rate as earlier decades. Men with lower educational levels are marrying at much lower rates. One theory is that the economic downturn has discouraged people in lower economic levels from marrying. People now tend to marry after achieving career success, not before.

[mrldii]

The most interesting thing about that study is how education relates to men's marital rates. This image is from the Pew Research study, which is the source behind the Fox News opinion piece:

 

Education and Marriage: Shifting Patterns for Women and Men | Pew Research Center

 

Men with high educational levels are marrying at the same rate as earlier decades. Men with lower educational levels are marrying at much lower rates. One theory is that the economic downturn has discouraged people in lower economic levels from marrying. People now tend to marry after achieving career success, not before.

 

 

And, it's an interesting example of how one "author" took the data and drew unemotional, rational conclusions as to what it meant

 

and another "author" took the same data and concluded something that made him and his readers feel better about the whole danged *mess*.

 

 

Personally, I prefer *educated conclusions* to be just that and devoid of any emotional, knee-jerking reactionism.

[Woggle]

Older men might want to marry but from men under 40 I hear a different story. They saw what their fathers and older guys went through in the divorce and want no part of it. They also heard all the stuff in the media about how much women hate being paired with us and figure if this is really what they think why not just play around. Do you think younger single men aren't aware of this walkaway wife stuff? There is a big difference between how baby boomer men and gen x and millennial men think.

[thefooloftheyear]

Had you bothered to look, you would have realized there wasn't A singular author "of the piece"; it was a hotlinked compilation of several studies.

 

No, the "author" of the 2009 study Marital Events of Americans: 2009 was not a woman; the Census Bureau Director when the data was gathered was Kenneth Prewitt. I'm assuming that is a man; the "authors" of the study are the actual members of the 2000 population of the United States.

 

Augustine Kposowa conducted the study which determined divorced men commit suicide at over twice the rate of married men.

 

David and John Gallacher were the researchers who conducted the study that bore out the data that married men are healthier than single men.

 

Richard Fry (presumably a man) and D'Vera Cohn (presumably a woman) conducted the research for the Pew Research Center which concluded married men are financially better off than unmarried men, nowadays.

 

 

I'm not sure what the gender of the researchers has to do with the subject matter of the studies and the actual, factual and raw data that is drawn; research studies are not opinion pieces...no matter how well - or ill - informed the researcher may personally be on the matter at hand.

 

 

Personally, I prefer to base on my opinions on actual, statistically-verifiable and supported information rather than 'someone of my same gender once wrote a book, which I found in the non-fiction section, that resonates with me, based on what I already believe to be true.'

 

 

But, hey...that's just me. This isn't the first time my penchant for interjecting actual facts into an otherwise lively debate and discussion has ruffled some feathers and caused discomfort.

 

 

 

Dont flatter yourself....my feathers aren't ruffled,,,,I'm rich in life experience and common sense....That's more than enough for me and has served me well..

 

You likely have more time on your hands than I do..have at it...

 

 

TFY

[mrldii]

Dont flatter yourself....my feathers aren't ruffled,,,,I'm rich in life experience and common sense....That's more than enough for me and has served me well..

 

You likely have more time on your hands than I do..have at it...

 

 

'Tis indeed a curse...having so much time on my hands that I can afford to actually click on links and read actual, factual data, just to simply form my own personal *edumacated* opinions on matters, which I, too, freely share with others while on online discussion boards.

 

 

Since I'm one of that 'previously-married but now-divorced and intending to remain single women' of a certain demographic, gotta fill my time in between adopting all those stray cats somehow,

 

 

yanno?

[underpants]

Was reading this blog based on sociological studies that show that women are less happy than men in marriage.

 

https://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2016/05/04/women-are-less-happy-than-men-in-marriage-so-why-does-the-media-insist-otherwise/

 

I wouldn't go as far as to say the media conspires against women to make sure they get married.

 

But studies do prove that this part of this article is true: single women, on average, are happier than married women. Married women are less happy than married men and less happy than single women.

 

This could explain why so many men struggle on the dating market. The bottom line is: women are happy single.

 

I know this applies to me. I would rather be single than in a relationship with just anyone. If I'm going to have to pick up and wash your socks, you better be ****ing awesome.

 

Hey, I remember you. Hope all is well.

 

I have remained single (middle aged, spinster cat lady, the horror!... please don't throw me into that brier patch sort of life)...I'm happy. Self made artist, pretty cool and got here on my own. Earth is wonderful once you just let go.

 

At my stage in life I have so many projects to keep me happy but romantically, I would settle for a self actualized man that had his own space. Or not.

 

It is nice to not worry.

[S_A]

Here is another study...

 

Interesting quote

 

When more women make themselves sexually available, the pool of marriageable men diminishes. “In a world where women do not say no, the man is never forced to settle down and make serious choices,” writes George Gilder, author of "Men and Marriage."

 

The more readily attainable something (sex) is, the more it loses it's value.

 

I look around at all of my friends, and the ones who were quick to marry were the ones that were always struggling to get laid. That isn't a coincidence at all.

 

While both quotes seem to provide opposing views, I feel that they are BOTH right.

 

Personally, I strongly feel that women are not wired for monogamy. I believe that monogamy actually destroys a woman's sex drive. I think monogamy has a lot to do with why so many women in monogamous relationships feel like they have no sex drive during their sexually prime years (late 30's and onward). This, in my opinion is NOT healthy. To put all this another way, women are happiest (I'd also say "healthiest") when they have multiple sexual partners, especially in their later years. This, to me, explains why married women would in fact be less happier than single women. Is it possible for a married woman to be happy (and healthy)? Yes. I am just saying that a woman would be happier and healthier by not being tied down to one person in marriage (unless it was an open marriage). Men, on the other hand, are unaffected by monogamy. Our sex drive/health is not affected by it. So while I would also say that men are not specifically wired for monogamy, we are better suited for monogamous relationships because we don't need new or varied sexual partners to keep our sex drive kick started.

 

My GF wants to get married. I want to as well, but knowing what I know sort of deters me. I don't want her to turn 40 and have no sex drive because of a monogamous marriage. Currently, my GF is horny as heck and there is no reason why she should not be hornier 10 years from now... but for marriage...

[stillafool]

Here is another study...

 

Why men won't marry you | Fox News

 

Interesting quote

 

When more women make themselves sexually available, the pool of marriageable men diminishes. “In a world where women do not say no, the man is never forced to settle down and make serious choices,” writes George Gilder, author of "Men and Marriage."

 

Hmm....This is what I alluded to previously...

 

TFY

 

Well the pool has completely dried up because there's more sexually available women than ever before especially with this FWB thing going on. So I guess wedding coordinators will go out of business soon.

[stillafool]

While both quotes seem to provide opposing views, I feel that they are BOTH right.

 

Personally, I strongly feel that women are not wired for monogamy. I believe that monogamy actually destroys a woman's sex drive. I think monogamy has a lot to do with why so many women in monogamous relationships feel like they have no sex drive during their sexually prime years (late 30's and onward). This, in my opinion is NOT healthy. To put all this another way, women are happiest (I'd also say "healthiest") when they have multiple sexual partners, especially in their later years. This, to me, explains why married women would in fact be less happier than single women. Is it possible for a married woman to be happy (and healthy)? Yes. I am just saying that a woman would be happier and healthier by not being tied down to one person in marriage (unless it was an open marriage). Men, on the other hand, are unaffected by monogamy. Our sex drive/health is not affected by it. So while I would also say that men are not specifically wired for monogamy, we are better suited for monogamous relationships because we don't need new or varied sexual partners to keep our sex drive kick started.

 

My GF wants to get married. I want to as well, but knowing what I know sort of deters me. I don't want her to turn 40 and have no sex drive because of a monogamous marriage. Currently, my GF is horny as heck and there is no reason why she should not be hornier 10 years from now... but for marriage...

 

I hate to say it but I kind of agree with you.

[mrldii]

Well the pool has completely dried up because there's more sexually available women than ever before especially with this FWB thing going on. So I guess wedding coordinators will go out of business soon.

 

Again, the people who are actually charged with studying these things and charged with drawing accurate correlations as to what the findings represent

 

do NOT list "more sexually available women" as a basis for/contributor to the trend. Men with less education/less earnings, yes. The fear of both genders that marriages don't last, yes. The decline in religious affiliation, yes.

 

But, women being "more sexually available", no. "Feminism" and all its *horrors* wasn't mentioned, either.

 

 

By those actually in-the-know, that is.

 

U.S. marriage rate hits new low and may continue to decline | Deseret News National

[jay1983]

While both quotes seem to provide opposing views, I feel that they are BOTH right.

 

Personally, I strongly feel that women are not wired for monogamy. I believe that monogamy actually destroys a woman's sex drive. I think monogamy has a lot to do with why so many women in monogamous relationships feel like they have no sex drive during their sexually prime years (late 30's and onward). This, in my opinion is NOT healthy. To put all this another way, women are happiest (I'd also say "healthiest") when they have multiple sexual partners, especially in their later years. This, to me, explains why married women would in fact be less happier than single women. Is it possible for a married woman to be happy (and healthy)? Yes. I am just saying that a woman would be happier and healthier by not being tied down to one person in marriage (unless it was an open marriage). Men, on the other hand, are unaffected by monogamy. Our sex drive/health is not affected by it. So while I would also say that men are not specifically wired for monogamy, we are better suited for monogamous relationships because we don't need new or varied sexual partners to keep our sex drive kick started.

 

My GF wants to get married. I want to as well, but knowing what I know sort of deters me. I don't want her to turn 40 and have no sex drive because of a monogamous marriage. Currently, my GF is horny as heck and there is no reason why she should not be hornier 10 years from now... but for marriage...

 

I see where you're coming from, but my view slightly differs. I believe they're wired for monogamy, but for a certain period of time. Rather than multiple partner within days or weeks, it's months or years depending on how strong their love/lust for their partner. Where as men can have a different partner each day/week without a problem.

[Woggle]

While both quotes seem to provide opposing views, I feel that they are BOTH right.

 

Personally, I strongly feel that women are not wired for monogamy. I believe that monogamy actually destroys a woman's sex drive. I think monogamy has a lot to do with why so many women in monogamous relationships feel like they have no sex drive during their sexually prime years (late 30's and onward). This, in my opinion is NOT healthy. To put all this another way, women are happiest (I'd also say "healthiest") when they have multiple sexual partners, especially in their later years. This, to me, explains why married women would in fact be less happier than single women. Is it possible for a married woman to be happy (and healthy)? Yes. I am just saying that a woman would be happier and healthier by not being tied down to one person in marriage (unless it was an open marriage). Men, on the other hand, are unaffected by monogamy. Our sex drive/health is not affected by it. So while I would also say that men are not specifically wired for monogamy, we are better suited for monogamous relationships because we don't need new or varied sexual partners to keep our sex drive kick started.

 

My GF wants to get married. I want to as well, but knowing what I know sort of deters me. I don't want her to turn 40 and have no sex drive because of a monogamous marriage. Currently, my GF is horny as heck and there is no reason why she should not be hornier 10 years from now... but for marriage...

 

Discuss this with her. If you don't discuss your fears and your concerns openly with her than she is not marriage material.

[xxoo]

While both quotes seem to provide opposing views, I feel that they are BOTH right.

 

Personally, I strongly feel that women are not wired for monogamy. I believe that monogamy actually destroys a woman's sex drive. I think monogamy has a lot to do with why so many women in monogamous relationships feel like they have no sex drive during their sexually prime years (late 30's and onward). This, in my opinion is NOT healthy. To put all this another way, women are happiest (I'd also say "healthiest") when they have multiple sexual partners, especially in their later years. This, to me, explains why married women would in fact be less happier than single women. Is it possible for a married woman to be happy (and healthy)? Yes. I am just saying that a woman would be happier and healthier by not being tied down to one person in marriage (unless it was an open marriage). Men, on the other hand, are unaffected by monogamy. Our sex drive/health is not affected by it. So while I would also say that men are not specifically wired for monogamy, we are better suited for monogamous relationships because we don't need new or varied sexual partners to keep our sex drive kick started.

 

My GF wants to get married. I want to as well, but knowing what I know sort of deters me. I don't want her to turn 40 and have no sex drive because of a monogamous marriage. Currently, my GF is horny as heck and there is no reason why she should not be hornier 10 years from now... but for marriage...

 

There is something called the Coolidge Effect that affects both men and women, but especially men. It's the effect of sex drive falling in a monogamous relationship and rising in a new relationship. The poly community talks about New Relationship Energy (NRE) which can spill over into the primary relationship. Affairs, too, can create a rise in libido in the primary relationship. Again, true for men and women.

 

Further, men experience a drop in testosterone in monogamous relationships. So yes, monogamy does affect men's libido. And women's.

 

That does not equal no libido, just lower. Speaking personally, both of our libidos were crazy high in the early years, so "lower" means sex 3x a week instead of 15

 

And less intense sex drive does not necessarily mean less happiness. It can, in fact, be a relief

[dreamingoftigers]

Geeze, I’m over 50 and darn near EVERY man I’ve dated has wanted to get married or at least live together and pretty darn quickly!

 

Nothing wrong with that at all.

 

Since I don’t have male friends who talk about things like that with me, maybe the ones who don’t want to get married just aren’t dating so I don’t meet them.

 

But in my experience the men who are over 50 and dating definitely want marriage or cohabitation asap. Heck, my most recent exBF was looking immediately after our breakup and I assume he's already found someone. My exH was remarried within 2 years of our divorce at age 40.

 

There was only one ex that didn't ask for marriage quickly.

 

And ironically, he was the one I was engaged to before we split up.

 

My husband proposed before three months and pushed hard for it.

 

I didn't think too much about it before this posting. But yeah, I've had a fair bit of "lock that down" come my way and in most of the cases, I wasn't that interested on their timeline.

 

Interesting. And honestly, I'm no hottie.

[thefooloftheyear]

Not to demean anyone but there are a lot of guys that have had little to virtually no attention from women their whole lives..And just because someone is more educated doesn't translate into success with the opposite sex...Plenty of highly educated men spend their nights watching porn with Palmela and her 5 sisters.....

 

Common sense would dictate that if those men found a taker, that they'd try to lock that down with marriage...

 

I'd say that aspect has a lot to do with why a guy would want to jump into m.. ..

 

.I really think most women underestimate the importance guys place on "having their stuff"....as in their .,hobbies ,cars, boats, motorcycles,tools, etc....A divorced guy living in a dumpy apartment, and eating off a hot plate, that's been stripped of all of that is gonna feel like a fish out of water,...He finds a woman willing to take him in and help him get his stuff back and let him set up in her house is going to look very appealing/...

 

After thinking about this topic for a while, none of my own male peers in my circle of contacts(friends,family, business associates, etc) has remarried.....none.....Most of them are with younger women, and practically all are high income earners and Type A's.,,,They have their own places and didn't lose their stuff or was able to replace it because they could afford to..

 

.02 ...But as they say.....Your mileage may vary....

 

TFY

Edited May 7, 2016 by thefooloftheyear