Liam1 Posted May 6, 2016 Posted May 6, 2016 (edited) I dunno.... I don't see any men around me struggling....Most are either happy in their situation or have basically foregone the idea of a relationship in lieu of other pursuits..... Things are actually pretty good for the average man now....If a guy is above average, its never been better... I agree. I still think it is the woman who push for marriage. I do not see that has changed at all. I have never heard a single man complaining about being single. What I hear is that they do not want to get married. Typically they eventually do because they meet someone and fall in love, but they are happy being single. It is really easier than ever to have a sexual relationship without marriage. Personally, relationship wise, IMO, men have pretty much stayed the same and it is the women who have become increasingly more demanding and easily disappointed with their life. Edited May 6, 2016 by Liam1 1
Jabron1 Posted May 6, 2016 Posted May 6, 2016 It is really easier than ever to have a sexual relationship without marriage. This point really needs to be drilled home. 1
mrldii Posted May 6, 2016 Posted May 6, 2016 Struggle how? Threads and posts on LS (and other online discussion boards) authored by some men who are confused and perplexed by the whole dating/relating phenomenon - and their lack of success in navigating them - provide ample examples of the various ways "(some) men struggle". Personally, other than citing such threads/posts as examples, I can't answer your direct query of me, as I don't go out with men who struggle while dating/relating with women. 1
Woggle Posted May 6, 2016 Posted May 6, 2016 The fact is that independent and educated women actually marry more often and divorce less. It a man wants a happy marriage that lasts find a woman who has her own thing. It's the lower classes where marriage and family have broken down. 2
wmacbride Posted May 6, 2016 Posted May 6, 2016 I wonder if this shift for men is reflective of society in general. I was watching a documentary that addressed ideas about how, due to social media, texting, etc. people are becoming more socially isolated in terms of face to face contact. I don't know if I agee with that or not, but it was food for thought. I've also often wondered what characteristics men view as "masculine". I'm not a man, so I don't know. Are they the same ones women see as "masculine"? Is there any sort of cultural norm for this, or is it individual? If it is cultural, has this shifted, or had it remained pretty static?
xxoo Posted May 6, 2016 Posted May 6, 2016 Was every woman from prior generations in her marriage only to escape financial destitution?? There was no love and happiness, ever?? Here's the thing - for a lot of men, "what they can bring" is completely interwoven with "who they are". That's what the provider instinct is all about - supposedly that's a "masculine" thing. I'm not a science PhD academic because it happens to be an enjoyable pastime. It's how I connect with the world - continually needing to learn more is pretty much a compulsion - it's fortunate that I'm able to earn enough of a living to house and feed myself and my family. So you say this kind of thing doesn't count anymore because it's too repressive to women . . . fine. What's left? You can see it on LS - women say they want LTRs but are using short-term attraction qualities as the measuring sticks (pun intended?) for LTR potential. I tell you, the smart guys going forward are the players and personal trainers. Of course it counts! It counts for a lot. Why would a man in that position struggle? Because something else is lacking, and it's not looks.
xxoo Posted May 6, 2016 Posted May 6, 2016 I agree. I still think it is the woman who push for marriage. I do not see that has changed at all. I have never heard a single man complaining about being single. What I hear is that they do not want to get married. Typically they eventually do because they meet someone and fall in love, but they are happy being single. Forget what they say; look at what they do. Men remarry faster after divorce than women do. Why is that? These are men who know the drill, as they've already been married and divorced. 2
stillafool Posted May 6, 2016 Posted May 6, 2016 My mother had a husband, a business and six kids. Being a wife and mother does not mean a woman does all of the work. My mother has something called leadership skills. She taught us what to do, scheduled our tasks, assigned our tasks, and then followed up to make sure they were done to her standards which were very high. Much of that stuff was delegated to me to make sure it got done because I was the oldest child. I was raised with the same type of mother. You see to me what you describe above is still a lot of work. I'm just not cut out to be a mother and I knew this at a young age by watching my own mother.
mrldii Posted May 6, 2016 Posted May 6, 2016 Forget what they say; look at what they do. Men remarry faster after divorce than women do. Why is that? These are men who know the drill, as they've already been married and divorced. Fascinating factual data which supports this assertion... https://www.census.gov/hhes/socdemo/marriage/data/sipp/us-remarriage-poster.pdf men-like-remarrying-more-than-women Since "nearly 2/3rds of men" and "less than half of women" look forward to remarrying, it is obvious that, factually-speaking, it can only mean one thing: women, as they age, realize their selfishness in their previous relationships and are willing to spend the rest of their lives single to atone for their previous sense of entitlement. 4
Liam1 Posted May 6, 2016 Posted May 6, 2016 Forget what they say; look at what they do. Men remarry faster after divorce than women do. Why is that? These are men who know the drill, as they've already been married and divorced. That's an easy one to answer. There are MORE women out there looking to get married than men.
mikeylo Posted May 6, 2016 Posted May 6, 2016 No argument.... A slim woman with DD's will drive most guys nuts... TFY Yeah but only to lust after them. Not having a relationship with. Not many guys would want a woman alongside after whom other men are lusting after. That is the reason such women are usually single as not many takers for a real relationship.
xxoo Posted May 6, 2016 Posted May 6, 2016 Yeah but only to lust after them. Not having a relationship with. Not many guys would want a woman alongside after whom other men are lusting after. That is the reason such women are usually single as not many takers for a real relationship. Highly attractive women do have to discern genuine interest from shallow lust, but it is not true that they have few takers for a relationship because of their attractiveness. 4
jay1983 Posted May 6, 2016 Posted May 6, 2016 Yeah but only to lust after them. Not having a relationship with. Not many guys would want a woman alongside after whom other men are lusting after. That is the reason such women are usually single as not many takers for a real relationship. Do you mean not many men would want a relationship with a women whom many men have slept with?
mikeylo Posted May 6, 2016 Posted May 6, 2016 Highly attractive women do have to discern genuine interest from shallow lust, but it is not true that they have few takers for a relationship because of their attractiveness. I disagree. Would rather discuss on another thread than changing the course of this one.
BlueIris Posted May 6, 2016 Posted May 6, 2016 I have never heard a single man complaining about being single. What I hear is that they do not want to get married. Typically they eventually do because they meet someone and fall in love, but they are happy being single. Geeze, I’m over 50 and darn near EVERY man I’ve dated has wanted to get married or at least live together and pretty darn quickly! Nothing wrong with that at all. Since I don’t have male friends who talk about things like that with me, maybe the ones who don’t want to get married just aren’t dating so I don’t meet them. But in my experience the men who are over 50 and dating definitely want marriage or cohabitation asap. Heck, my most recent exBF was looking immediately after our breakup and I assume he's already found someone. My exH was remarried within 2 years of our divorce at age 40. 3
Imajerk17 Posted May 6, 2016 Posted May 6, 2016 I agree. I still think it is the woman who push for marriage. I do not see that has changed at all. I have never heard a single man complaining about being single. What I hear is that they do not want to get married. Typically they eventually do because they meet someone and fall in love, but they are happy being single. It is really easier than ever to have a sexual relationship without marriage. Personally, relationship wise, IMO, men have pretty much stayed the same and it is the women who have become increasingly more demanding and easily disappointed with their life. This post brings up the point I was making earlier. For men who trigger attraction then modern dating is quite easy, easier probably than any prior time in the history of the human race. For the males who do not--which includes many of the posters behind the sad/frustrating posts, then dating nowadays is quite challenging and mystifying. Especially for the guys who worked hard in school and in their careers and were told growing up that their accomodating dispositions and their abilities to be good financial providers would be enough to attract an adoring wife. This may have never been really true, but it certainly isn't true today. 3
mrldii Posted May 6, 2016 Posted May 6, 2016 Yeah but only to lust after them. Not having a relationship with. Not many guys would want a woman alongside after whom other men are lusting after. That is the reason such women are usually single as not many takers for a real relationship. Not according to actual studies on the subject... Men With Attractive Wives Report Higher Levels Of Marital Satisfaction, New Study Finds "...Researchers theorized that men who felt they 'lucked out' by marrying attractive wives were happier and more likely to care about their wives’ needs — and in turn, the good-looking wives were happier in the relationship as well..." 4
xxoo Posted May 6, 2016 Posted May 6, 2016 That's an easy one to answer. There are MORE women out there looking to get married than men. But that "marrying kind" of man....he loves being married. And there are a lot of them. 2
Liam1 Posted May 6, 2016 Posted May 6, 2016 Can you imagine loving and enjoying a child and at the same time wanting to also find fulfillment in work outside the home? Of course I can. The question posed is why do women decide to work and have a child, yet complain about it? If a woman wants it all, that's her choice. Some women reject the traditional female stay at home mother role and that is okay. But why do they then complain? It's as if they will never be happy, no matter what. Fathers have not traditionally been expected to find satisfaction while staying home with a small child, yet they are still viewed as loving and enjoying their children. I think that is the entire point of Gloria25s question is people rejecting traditional roles, even though they sought them out. Most men would be perfectly happy to NOT have children. Typically it is the woman who wants children. Women have a hormone called estrogen that biologically skews them to be more nurturing. Men have testosterone, which does not skew toward nurturing, but more towards competitiveness and achievement. Mothers can love and enjoy their children just as much AND have interests outside the circle of the child. The point is that maybe women can NOT have it all. So they need to sit down and really think long and hard about exactly what it is they want out of life. I know many many women who are ecstatic staying home and caring for their kids. They quit their career to raise their kids and they love it and feel fulfilled by it. That's the point. If a woman is not the nurturing type and she can NOT handle it all. KNOW THYSELF. Do not inflict misery on a spouse or children if being a mother will not fulfill you. To do so, however, someone else needs to be responsible for the child--either the father or another child care worker. Babies and small children do not tend to sit quietly and cooperatively while adults pursue hobbies, businesses and personal interests. They are in fact quite demanding!Uhm! No babies do not do well on their own. That's a given. Babes need a mother. That brings us back to traditional role. Mom nurtures, dad brings home the bacon. If a woman wants it all, she can have it today. But then do not complain and make the entire family miserable. I said it before and I will say it again, men have not changed, it is women who have changed. They really do not know what they need to fulfill themselves. If they work and raise a child, they complain. If they are a stay at home mother, they complain. Geesh! Men do know what they want. They have not changed. As for having a nanny......why bother to have a kid, if it is raised by a careworker?
mrldii Posted May 6, 2016 Posted May 6, 2016 Do you mean not many men would want a relationship with a women whom many men have slept with? Our breast size belies our actual *number*?!? Women with "DD"s have had more sex partners than women with "A"s? Who knew?!? 1
Imajerk17 Posted May 6, 2016 Posted May 6, 2016 On a related note, as much as our gender likes to portray ourselves as being the easy-come easy-go gender when it comes to sex and relationships (an image perpetrated because we love to keep a stiff upper lip) studies have shown that our gender falls in love faster and harder, AND takes breakups harder. 1
Liam1 Posted May 6, 2016 Posted May 6, 2016 But that "marrying kind" of man....he loves being married. And there are a lot of them. I think it's more like it's convenient to be married, rather than he loves being married. Some men can not easily attract women. So when that type of man finds a woman who is attracted to him, he marries her. When he gets bored with that women he divorces and marries another. It depends on the man and how easy or difficult it is for him to attract a lot of women 1
thefooloftheyear Posted May 6, 2016 Posted May 6, 2016 Fascinating factual data which supports this assertion... https://www.census.gov/hhes/socdemo/marriage/data/sipp/us-remarriage-poster.pdf men-like-remarrying-more-than-women Since "nearly 2/3rds of men" and "less than half of women" look forward to remarrying, it is obvious that, factually-speaking, it can only mean one thing: women, as they age, realize their selfishness in their previous relationships and are willing to spend the rest of their lives single to atone for their previous sense of entitlement. Perhaps its because they may be seeking a haven(financially) after getting their head bashed in when going through a divorce.... And that it may not necessarily have to do with the desire to pair up or marry for the usual or original reasons that they did in the past... I can recall two guys in my own circle who did this...One is in his early 50's..dead broke and living in a shytty apartment.....married a woman in her 30's that has a good career($) and a nice and spacious house....He moved in and planted his flag...he seems happy now, but rarely talks about her, only that he's happy to have a place to put all his stuff.... TFY
Aniela Posted May 6, 2016 Posted May 6, 2016 I think it's more like it's convenient to be married, rather than he loves being married. Some men can not easily attract women. So when that type of man finds a woman who is attracted to him, he marries her. When he gets bored with that women he divorces and marries another. It depends on the man and how easy or difficult it is for him to attract a lot of women Why so cynical? My dad loves being married. He says that his family is the best part of his life. Am I to assume that he's lying, based on a few posts here? I don't think that I will. 1
thefooloftheyear Posted May 6, 2016 Posted May 6, 2016 Why so cynical? My dad loves being married. He says that his family is the best part of his life. Am I to assume that he's lying, based on a few posts here? I don't think that I will. No, you are to assume that your dad doesn't represent the entire male population, either..... TFY
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