Welp, finally learned the truth...

[Lois_Griffin]

I honestly believe the OW took advantage of her mental state to take what she wanted when she was also freshly wounded. And then stuck her emotional hose to my wife and never let go.

Ahhh, so she's a victim.

Yet another 'victim' who was manipulated and led down the garden path by the big, bad OW.

 

All you're doing is making excuses for your wife's crap behavior and trying to find reasons to enable you to accept her crap behavior. What better way to do that than to blame the OW? If you think some evil, menacing OW led your wife by the nose, it makes it easier for you to forgive her. Just read any infidelity message board - most of the betrayed spouses do the same exact thing - blame the affair partner for their spouse's sh*t behavior.

 

Accountability is the key word for the day.

[HereNorThere]

I've suffered from depression to the point I was hospitalized for a suicide attempt and counseled a lot of friends and family that also suffer from it.

 

Not one single person turned gay, not one. Not one single therapist warned me "don't forget to take your Prozac or you might end up liking dudes."

 

Sorry, but you're being lied to about something, somewhere. Depression doesn't make you gay.

 

Now if you'll excuse me, Im going to get my prescription refilled just in case I'm wrong.

Edited April 21, 2016 by HereNorThere

[mellywell]

I've suffered from depression to point I was hospitalized for a suicide attempt and counseled a lot of friends and family that also suffer from it.

 

Not one single person turned gay, not one. Not one single therapist warned me "don't forget to take your Prozac or you might end up liking dudes."

 

Sorry, but you're being lied to about something, somewhere. Depression doesn't make you gay.

 

Now if you'll excuse, Im going to get my prescription refilled just in case I'm wrong.

 

A person is gay....or they are not. Now, a person who is NOT gay but is vulnerable MIGHT fall into a one-time overly close situation with someone....but even then we all have choices.

 

OP, I do not know where on the spectrum of sexuality your wife fits, but she lied, and she broke your vows. And because it was with a woman, I am sure there is even more uncertainty about the overall relationship. All I can say is that if she IS gay, you won't be able to change it, and while you might have some semblance of a marriage, it won;t be what it could be with a straight woman. I know from whence I speak.

[cc_zero]

Thank you all for all the comments. You're right, I am making excuses for her. She has just as much to answer for as the OW. I am still in shock and I am trying to rationalize and forgive to quickly in an attempt to return to normal again as quickly as possible.

 

She is on a long planned trip this weekend with some friends (who I believe are 100% safe), she was insistent on not going, but it was paid for and honestly I needed the time to myself.

 

The comments here have empowered me to write a long letter to her, laying out all my feelings of betrayal, the unforgivable lying, and complete disregard and disrespect for me and our marriage. I have outlined specific questions I want answered, including her to answer to her sexual orientation. Whether shes bi-sexual, had a emotional bond bi-curious episode or if she's closeted herself. I framed it in a way that if we try to reconcile and she's closeting herself, she will have not only done what she did but she is wasting more of my time and dooming me to a continued life without true physical love. To make it easier for her to answer, I promised not to out her if she in fact is only attracted to women and that will can split amicably and she can come out on her own time.

 

The rest of the letter is in detail how every action, lying, selfishness, are almost incomprehensible. I believe her response will reveal whether there is any hope of re-starting our marriage at a new starting point and moving forward.

 

She has already agreed to comply, but has agreed to no contact for life and to throw away all momentos, pictures, anything the represents that time period.

 

She basically hasn't stopped crying for almost 3 days. Claims it was all a mistake and has been over and that she loves me with all her heart. Which of course I stated is very difficult to believe right now.

 

So it is what it is at the moment. I do believe there is still love between us and children involved, so I will see where the letter leads us and make an attempt until I believe that there's no point and nothing left to fight for.

[HereNorThere]

Wow, you sound like a really great guy. I'm very sorry this happened to you.

 

As far as her sexuality, I'm not so sure it's something that it's something you have to speculate on. She's obvious attracted to both genders and that's that. There are still unanswered questions concerning her bisexuality, but the bisexuality itself cannot be denied.

 

You seem really understanding and the offer of allowing her to come out on her own was really, really generous. It just says so much about your sense of empathy and compassion as a human.

 

Me, I'm not as nice. - I'd like to remind you that it's situations like these that polygraphs exist for. I'm not even sure I could make someone actually take one, but I'd damn sure threaten it and schedule one. I'm amazed at how many people get the same parking lot confessions that they never would have gotten otherwise. Also, you said something about believing the friends she's with are 100%. Brother, the Universe rarely allows a perfect 100% under any circumstances. She's never offered you one bit of truth throughout this ordeal. She's still hasn't offered you a single bit of information you wouldn't know otherwise. She's barely admitted to things you can actually prove. Don't expect this to just change. Every last bit of information she provides you will be like squeezing blood from a turnip.

 

You really don't even have any proof they aren't together right freakin now. Think about that.

[BuddyX]

Totally agree with the above. Gps on her cell phone and VAR in the car.

You still don't know if your wife's crying over the infidelity (and being caught) or loosing her OW.

[Bufo]

To attempt to turn off the (crocodile) tears, remind her firmly but gently that her lesbian affair wasn't a mistake but rather a deliberate choice consisting of hundreds of small choices where she could have said "no" but instead chose to pursue the relationship further. A mistake was me forgetting to take wife's car to gas station.

 

In other words, she may be regretting the loss of he affair and therefore crying, depressed,,etc. You need a truthful timeline including how it ended and who ended it. Offering R too easily and early is sticking your nick into the noose.

[Bufo]

To attempt to turn off the (crocodile) tears, remind her firmly but gently that her lesbian affair wasn't a mistake but rather a deliberate choice consisting of hundreds of small choices where she could have said "no" but instead chose to pursue the relationship further. A mistake was me forgetting to take wife's car to gas station.

 

In other words, she may be regretting the loss of he affair and therefore crying, depressed,,etc. You need a truthful timeline including how it ended and who ended it. Offering R too easily and early is sticking your nick into the noose.

[cc_zero]

I have requested all of the above information in the letter. She WILL be laying out the entire timeline and details as well as answering all my questions and being forced to really face what she has done. If we are to R, it is a non-negotiable must.

 

As far as her sexuality, yes, it's clear she's at least bi-sexual. My concern is where on the spectrum she is. If she mainly likes women, but can have sex with a guy and basically married to comply with social norms. I don't think I can continue. It has to be that she's at least 50/50. This is probably the issue that will be the most difficult to resolve. She may be confused herself, I offered time, but told her not to lock me into a physical love prison because she won't admit her own sexuality to herself and I need a gods honest answer. She certainly appeared to very much enjoy sex until she met the OW, then our activity really dropped off and only recently picked up. (before I found out, I have cut her off for the time being)

 

Another few points, I can tell things have really been off for them for somewhere around a year, around a year ago, I sort of called them out but didn't have enough evidence, I THINK.. but I'm not sure that the OW asked my wife to leave me because I demanded less contact between them even with non-concrete evidence and my wife refused. So it really has been sliding to over for awhile. I go through her phone, 2 years ago, they were literally texting 1000 times a month. In the last year, that kind of thing has dropped 100 fold. They don't even like each others facebook pictures. Certainly they could have been hiding it better, but I literally have her password to everything, I had to do a lot of detective work over the years. She is not aware that I have as much access as I do. They talk, but it's the kind of talk you have with someone who was your best friend and then really pissed you off at some point. So I feel the tears are genuine for our family and what she has done, and not a reflection of losing the OW. She very easily said yes whatever I want to ending all contact forever.

 

I think I just have to roll through this and see what happens.

[S2B]

Ok - so she says she wants the marriage to work now but she refused to cut off contact back when you didn't have solid proof. Then the OW ended it because she wouldn't divorce you.

 

Are you sure your wife loves only you and also are you certain she isn't just wanting to maintain her lifestyle? If so, she's likely to start cheating again in the future.

 

And has she cut ALL contact with this OW?...because the way you describe it she still texts 100 times a month = and that's more than 3 times a day! That is not no contact.

 

Where are you drawing the line for yourself? What consequences has your wife had (besides being embarrassed she got caught).

[JS84]

I'm all for reconciliation but I'd advise against jumping into it so quickly after D-Day. Or at the very least not letting her know you're on board for reconciliation so quickly. Not before she's shown that she's willing to put in the effort needed to repair the damage she's done. Crocodile tears and words are all well and good but it's actions that will determine whether reconciliation is possible. Not what she says and not her boo-hooing.

 

I am still in shock and I am trying to rationalize and forgive to quickly in an attempt to return to normal again as quickly as possible.

 

This is a mistake and will not work. Your marriage is not going to be the same again. Not saying it can't be better, but it will always be different. It is going to take YEARS before you guys are in a healthy place in your marriage.

 

She might not be willing to stay for the long haul of that. You might find down the road you aren't either. Regardless, instaforgiving, rugsweeping, and diving headfirst into reconciliation before any actions have been taken by the WS or consequences laid out by the BS is a recipe for reconciliation failure more often than not.

 

I definitely don't want to rug sweep... but she is literally complying with all demands, saying she'll do anything to fix it all, saying it's been over and she wants me.. etc. etc.

 

How do I not rug sweep? What actions do I need to take to make sure she is doing the work to fix it?

 

Personally I'd have her see a counselor and do some reading about dealing with affairs. I'm sure others here can recommend books if they haven't already. "How to Help Your Spouse Heal From An Affair" I've been hearing about for years. I might have gotten the title slightly wrong though.

 

Could you be more specific with how she is complying and what you've asked of her exactly? I haven't seen anything that shows she's willing to comply with what you want besides words. Compliance = Action. Compliance != Promises/Words. Because if all she's done is give you promises, she hasn't complied with anything.

 

I'd also recommend a polygraph to see if she's engaged in this type of behavior before while you were married. The entire truth rarely comes out on D-Day and cheaters 9 times out of 10 will only admit to what you can prove or what they think you already know.

 

The actual polygraph itself is only half of it however. Her willingness to take one and behavior up until you get to the polygraph examiner is the other half. There have been plenty of Parking Lot Confessions and "By the way..." stories with BS taking their WS to get polygraphed.

 

Hope everything works out.

Edited April 22, 2016 by JS84

[ShatteredLady]

I'm as guilty of this just as much as nearly every other member here is... Life's experiences effect us all. Unfortunately some of us go through truly emotionally crippling things. This is a forum for those people!! No-one can help it. We're all bias.

 

Very, VERY rarely there have been threads started here where the wayward partner turns out to be severely mentally sick. Many (if not most) members didn't pick-up on it because of their normal, natural bias.

 

I don't know what's going on with your wife. I've shared my life experiences (my post natal depression & my adopted cousins lesbian A during being institutionalized for post natal depression) I don't know how relevant they are to your life.

 

I think it's vitally important to know the whole picture of your life. There's a great 'letter' online about having all of the puzzle pieces. It really resonated with me. I don't know how to link but if you search 'letter, infidelity puzzle' you will find it. I think it's a good idea to share it with your wife while talking about NEEDING to know the timeline & truth of ALL that happened.

 

I mentioned knowing the truth of sexually what they did. I consider myself 'very heterosexual'. No matter how 'sick' I am mentally at any given time there are things I simply couldn't do (sex with a child, doing certain things with a woman etc) there's a world of difference between 'heavy petting', having things done to you & really enjoying doing things to another person of the same sex.

 

The question of her sexuality it's obviously of great importance to the future of your relationship.

 

I've said before & feel VERY strongly that bisexuality is no excuse for adultery!! You make a choice to marry who you marry. You make vows. Monogamy is what it is. If she's a lesbian it's a VERY different situation. You don't want to be her 'beard'.

 

We often say here that adultery pretty much has a script. We all think we are special, unique, little snowflakes but the more we read the more we learn its all pretty similar. I don't think that you are living one of these text-book situations.

 

I truly hope that with therapy & a LOT of communication you & your wife can find the absolute truth of what's happened. I also hope that you can find a solution, fix your family, heal & move on. This might not be possible but I hope for you.

 

When it comes to forums the truth is, take what resonates with you, work with it & leave the rest. Find the TRUTH. Decide what you can & can't live with & move on as healthily as you can.

 

Best wishes.

[cc_zero]

Thank you again SL. Your posts seem to be more helpful for me than the average.

 

I want to post the letter I wrote, but I think it is too personal. It's hard, because of the situation I cannot talk to anyone except probably a counselor and my wife about this. It's not very easy to choose a buddy or anyone really with .. oh hey my wife cheated on me with a girl, what do you think I should do?

 

In the letter I gave her the easiest out possible if she's gay. And have asked for a very clear answer on that subject. As you said, if I were to become her "beard" if she were to bury her sexual preference and stay closeted, that would be far worse than divorce. For both of us really. It is my suspicion though that shes some level of bi-sexual and I expect to hear that she mostly accepted sexual favors and not necessarily dolled them out. Who knows though, I'll find out when she tells me. It's just my educated guess.

 

I'm definitely not allowing her to give excuses, she must accept what she has done, come to terms with it and help me through my hurt if she truly wants to stay with me.

 

To answer some questions from other posters.. I only found out for sure about this all 2 days ago. I had monitored their communications because I had always suspected but had no real proof. Much harder to prove this kind of infidelity. It's not really abnormal for best girlfriends to text a lot, spend happy hours together and visit at the house a lot. Obviously much harder than if it were a male. I did however know she was a lesbian from the get go, had it not been for that, it probably would have taken much longer to suspect.

[cc_zero]

One other question...

 

Many posters warn about reconciling too early.

 

While I have agreed to enter the start of the reconciling process, which I believe will last a long time. (pending some answers to a few important questions).. it's not like I'm saying it's o.k. sweetie you made a mistake lets make love.

 

I have simply explored my thoughts on the whole thing and have come to the conclusion that pending her answers, I am willing to enter the process.

 

Is it to early for that?

[sandylee1]

The thing is that women know what women want.... and how they think and feel... so she (the OW ) probably had an advantage if that was her intention. Post partum can be a difficult time for some women and just because some don't suffer from it.. you can't say how it affects others.

 

Some women kill their own babies ....as a result it's very serious.

 

You need to see her actions now and get the truth on how it started.

[HereNorThere]

I'd say it's too early to let her know that. If she's knows you are planning on sticking around, want incentive does she have to be forthright to you? What incentive does she have to stop her behavior? She needs to feel the feel the fear. She needs miss you for a while.

 

Look, she doesn't communicate in words. You've talked to her about this for years and never got anywhere. It's time to speak with your actions. If it were me, I would have used this time she had away to move my stuff out temporarily or have divorce papers drafted. I would at least let her think I had already spoken with an attorney and I would also have done all the research about local polygraph testing and how much it's going to cost.

 

It's sad that adults must be treated this way, but she hasn't been acting like an adult in the first place. You need to let her remain in limbo for a while and really make her really feel like you are going to leave. Nearly every single person here did the opposite and later regretted it.

[cc_zero]

The thing is that women know what women want.... and how they think and feel... so she (the OW ) probably had an advantage if that was her intention. Post partum can be a difficult time for some women and just because some don't suffer from it.. you can't say how it affects others.

 

Some women kill their own babies ....as a result it's very serious.

 

You need to see her actions now and get the truth on how it started.

 

So far her actions are very remorseful, very regretful, constantly apologetic and she's had an outpouring of emotion towards me. She's constantly hugging, touching, crying a lot. Again, I'm not making excuses for her, she has much to answer for, but I do honestly believe she had a period of extreme emotional fragility and the OW as you said was able to take advantage of that. They are both equally at fault though, although I see the OW as intentionally courting a married woman and attempting to break up a family with children as particularly evil.

[cc_zero]

I'd say it's too early to let her know that. If she's knows you are planning on sticking around, want incentive does she have to be forthright to you? What incentive does she have to stop her behavior? She needs to feel the feel the fear. She needs miss you for a while.

 

Look, she doesn't communicate in words. You've talked to her about this for years and never got anywhere. It's time to speak with your actions. If it were me, I would have used this time she had away to move my stuff out temporarily or have divorce papers drafted. I would at least let her think I had already spoken with an attorney and I would also have done all the research about local polygraph testing and how much it's going to cost.

 

It's sad that adults must be treated this way, but she hasn't been acting like an adult in the first place. You need to let her remain in limbo for a while and really make her really feel like you are going to leave. Nearly every single person here did the opposite and later regretted it.

 

Well, in the letter (she has yet to read) I have outlined several demands that are non-negotiable or I will leave.

 

No contact for life, blocking the OW from all social media, her phone and any other method of communication. If she has any secret accounts such as email or chat apps I don't know about she has to tell me about them and delete them. All momentos, gifts, pictures, must be destroyed, trashed or deleted. If I EVER find any method of communication that was not cut off or deleted, I will leave the family. She also must lay out the entire affair to bare. All details, timelines, etc for when it began, both the physical and emotional part.. I believe from clues that the physical part was relatively short lived while the emotional affair continued for some time.

 

But that's about 80% of my non-negotiable demands with the asterisk that if any of these can't be met by her or are ever broken, I will leave the family.

 

One other thing,.. I'm trying to be completely forthcoming about my emotions with her. The morning she left for the trip I was having a bad morning and was very angry, so I was communicating that to her. But also, I've never been pack up my **** and leave for a week angry. I've sort of known for so long, it has had somewhat of a chance to settle. I was pack up **** angry for about an hour after finding hard evidence. I feel like doing something like that now would be doing that just because and to make her hurt. I'm not trying to be eye for an eye about this. The letter will be very hurtful for her to read, but she frankly deserves it and she will have to answer all my questions and comply to my demands. But I'm just not move out and let her wallow in it angry.

Edited April 22, 2016 by cc_zero

[HereNorThere]

Those actions aren't real, man. What makes her remorseful now that she got caught but wasn't remorseful previously? You have to get over this idea of her being trustworthy. I understand you want your old life back, but you have to get over that idea quick. That old life was over a long, long time ago and she kept that from you. It's going to take awhile before you're brain catches up to your new reality.

 

That's the difference. She didn't show you once shred of dignity until you caught her and now comes the crocodile tears. Of course she's sorry now that she is about to lose everything she has only to become a single mother. Not to mention the fact that she would eventually have to explain to her family and children that she broke up her marriage because of a homosexual affair. Ever watch the prison shows and see how remorseful and religious the inmates are after they've been imprisoned? They were monsters on the street and statically most of them re offend the moment they get out, but while they're locked up they certainly become remorseful.

 

I would make her wait as long you as she made you wait for the truth and that's being generous. She wasn't ever going to tell you, so making her prove herself for a year or two is the absolute minimum you could actually do. Anything else just proves you are a pushover. And let's face it, she wouldn't have done it if she didn't think you weren't a pushover. She did this because she knows she can. She doesn't think you have the strength to leave.

 

Think about all the nights they set up and made fun of you. Laughed at how weak you are and how you would never catch them. I'm sure that a big kick out of gas lighting you. She never worried once you would leave because she knew you wouldn't. And now here we are and she was exactly right.

 

Me personally, I couldn't take her back. I just wouldn't ever be able to trust someone with my life like that. She literally has the power to pull the plug on you one day. Who knows, you might end up in a coma after an accident, she runs to her "girlfriend" for support and the next thing you know they are signing the powers to unplug you. To me, that's just too much power to give someone as unstable and untrustworthy as she is. I'd honestly be scared I'd come home one day and find out she drowned the kids in the bathtub or something.

[stillafool]

If the sex and emotional connection with this OW was intense chances are she will cheat again after this all calms down. What happens when another woman comes around who arouses your wife's interest? It's easy for women to fake orgasms and to act like the sex is good. (Just some thoughts to remember.).

[sandylee1]

OP

 

You can see the remorse yourself. Don't let people who don't know you or your wife tell you she's just regretting being caught. One thing in her favour is that the A was over when you found out, even though her gaslighting was horrible..... Unfortunately that's what most cheaters do. They lie to cover their lies and make out that you're crazy.

 

It wouldn't do any harm for her to think /believe you are prepared to leave. I'm a firm believer of consequences for A's, whatever those consequences may be.

 

I noticed you said you would "leave the family" if she didn't do what you needed. You can leave your wife ..... but you should never leave your kids, even if you leave your wife.

[cc_zero]

OP

 

You can see the remorse yourself. Don't let people who don't know you or your wife tell you she's just regretting being caught. One thing in her favour is that the A was over when you found out, even though her gaslighting was horrible..... Unfortunately that's what most cheaters do. They lie to cover their lies and make out that you're crazy.

 

It wouldn't do any harm for her to think /believe you are prepared to leave. I'm a firm believer of consequences for A's, whatever those consequences may be.

 

I noticed you said you would "leave the family" if she didn't do what you needed. You can leave your wife ..... but you should never leave your kids, even if you leave your wife.

 

Very good point. Thank you. I am immediately changing those statements in the letter to reflect that. And of course that would be my intention.

 

I'm really not going to know more until she reads the letter and gives me the responses I have requested. I know what I think, but also am aware that I'm in a vulnerable position of seeing twisted truth or wearing rose colored glasses.

[aliveagain]

Your strongest at time of confrontation, they will often agree to terms that they may not agree to later when things have calmed down a bit. Ask her for a post nuptial agreement giving you most of the assets if you divorce because of a new infidelity. They are hard to defend but she will have to spend a lot of money finding that out. She may not honor your vows but sometimes a financial consequence can be a major deterrent. Independent counselling for her should be a non negotiable requirement for reconciliation.

[lolablue17]

Many of us do not get impressed by her "extreme remorse" and her tears, not because we think she is necessarily faking. But we know that everything is very stormy and foggy right now, the situation is fragile, and she is terrified about her future and her family. My long long experience tells me that in those fragile moments people turn to promise many things. It's easy to promise, but very hard to maintain. And the details you put here doesn't make things better, i must say.

 

Why? For example, your letter. Most of your demands focus on full NC with the OW. It disturbs me. Because it contradicts your statement about her remorse.

 

If she was so full of remorse, she would have gotten down on her knees and make a dramatic promise\commitment\vow, that she will never contact OW, out of respect for you, your feelings and your marriage.

 

The fact that you have to make a demand for such an obvious thing, shows that she didn't initiate it, you have to make a demand. What's the point of making such demands?

 

In stead of making demands, ask her what is she willing to do, commit and make vows, in order to make this work. Let her draw the plan. I'm not sure it will change much, because she may "know how to play your game", but at least you can learn something about her real plans.

Edited April 23, 2016 by lolablue17

[Jkidding]

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Edited May 1, 2016 by Jkidding