I went on a date and the search..

[ZA Dater]

You're going round in circles, dude.

 

 

This is what I got from the posts I have read (admittedly, I've not read them all):

 

 

1.You have no social life due to not having gone out and met people in your 20s and therefore, you can't ever build up a new social life now because...Well, because.

 

 

2. You need detailed feedback after a date so you know what to do on your next date, regardless of the fact that the next date will be with a different person who will likely expect different things.

 

 

3. You have persisted in using OLD as your only way of finding a romantic partner for the past 7 years with next to no results.

 

 

4. You ask people for advice, which you get plenty of but won't take, you are determined to do it your way regardless, but you still want to complain that life has dealt you a rough hand.

 

 

It's probably time you acted you age, ZA Dater.

 

Its difficult to pick between the advice and the severe critique. People said get new clothes, I got those. People said get a new look at I got that. People said be more positive and I tried. People said approach people at book stores and shops, I didn't because outside of Hollywood I have never seen anyone actually do any of those things and I spent enough time in said places to have witnessed this happen once. The main source of advice is ever more OLD sites, I really don't have the stomach for more OLD put downs, nor do I know where else to meet people. Please don't tell me meet ups! Please!

 

 

The simple fact is I am not meeting anyone so for as long as that continues I will be on my own 24/7. The other reality is I for the most part prefer sitting working, writing, reading than sitting in clubs bars trying to make idle conversation with people about nothing. Yes, I would like to take someone to dinner from time to time, yes I would like to buy them gifts, yes I would like to take an interest in their life and have them take an interest in mine but what people cannot fathom is I am almost completely devoid of emotion in person, I say very little, preferring to listen before speaking, you wont find me laughing often or smiling often for that manner. A large reason I am reserved is because the more you put out the more you hurt when you inevitably get rejected, wrong thinking yes but its my coping mechanism.

 

 

For all those things the people which I find attractive are the ones completely opposite to me, warm outgoing, friendly, happy, smiling and laughing people.

 

 

People can bring out a warm emotive me, well I think they can and its nice to be that person and I think to some extent had I found some success I'd be that person most of the time but when you sit down for a date, you sell your soul and at the end you get not even a follow up date I just think, well why bother really the result will always be the same.

 

 

A lot of the good parts of me I keep hidden, I have no idea how to flirt for example, despite watching videos, I do what I think it right and clearly it doesn't work.

 

 

I read some of the posts here and clearly some guys have skills I simply don't have, think in a way I don't think, act in a way I don't know how. I wish I did those things but plainly I don't know how to.

 

 

The bold point makes me wonder why I should even bother, if everyone is so unique then why are certain things seen as universally attractive?

 

 

How do I build up a social life when I have nothing in common with people in my age group? Everyone I know is married and most have kids, life is passing me by and there is very little I can do about it. Each day I feel like a greater misfit and the only way I can truly banish this feeling is to make sure each hour of the waking day is spent thinking about work or doing work or working on my novel, elements of which are pretty much me living out what I would like dating to be and the people I would like to date.

 

 

Maybe I am just better off just focussing on the material aspects of life.

[ZA Dater]

You're wrong about legitimately every single thing you present and want others to look at. We aren't the ones who haven't kissed a girl or done anything with a member of the opposite sex... You are. You have done it your way for 32 years and it's gotten you no where. There's nothing for you to say or try to get us to understand or sympathize with.

 

If I were in your shoes I would suck up the ego and pride and blindly trust/try every single one of the suggestions and pieces of advice, techniques, etc that you have at your disposal here.

 

Nothing you're gonna say is going to enlighten anyone here. We already know it probably sucks a big one to wake up and be you every day. You've beaten that into submission 25 threads ago. If someone here said "walk into a coffee shop, and approach the first adult woman you see that's sitting alone with an empty seat near her... Then walk over and ask "Hey how are you.. I'm sry to bother, but is this seat taken?" - don't argue or reply with anything other than "I'll give it a try tomorrow on my lunch break"

 

Then tomorrow night , come on and explain what excatly happened. "She said no and I left". "She had headphones in but nodded... After she took her ear buds out for a moment I asked her what she was listening to...."

 

That is actually feedback and real world living.

 

You think it's embarrassing to be a guy who takes A shot to go talk to a female?

 

The other guys in the place are the ones who wil feel like losers. Stepping into the ring gets you immediate respect. Even if you get knocked out in 10 seconds. You did more than anyone else at the coffee shop did.

 

If you can't resist giving Any reply other than "ok... Nothing to lose" then you are highlighting your psychological disability.

 

You've called yourself a hideous loser who no one likes. For

Once I'm allowing you to be that loser and just do that you're told like a child would be taught.

 

 

You have done this how many time times? How many times has it been successful for you?

 

 

Simply question.

 

 

I don't really think anyone cares if some nobody sits down next to some chick and asks if the seat is taken. Respect is garnered from attitude and achievement. I don't have much problem garnering respect put me at a table and start a political discussion and I can school most people 9/10 times but for the most part there is no challenge to that because most people I come across are so poorly informed I don't need to try very hard to impress.

 

 

Most of the way I work is competition and challenge, I am not going to bother with miss 34d with long blond hair because I know the dude with the tanned skin, skinny jeans and the $80k sports car has a higher chance with her than I do. I'll take on what I think I can win and walk away from what is improbable at best, I weigh up the odds with each and every thing I do. Yes, I have taken on the impossible but in the dating world that's got me nowhere.

 

 

The last two ladies I pursued collectively over a 5 year period, each objectively should have been a win, they were big losses and I cannot understand why. I sit and think, try and understand but I cannot see what I didn't do or did wrong. The one got terribly drunk at a party and was all over me, I drove her to her place and refused to take advantage, I wanted to but morally I couldn't.

 

 

The other I took a complete interest in here life, we still chat but there is no reciprocated interest at all, not even a friend zone sort of interest.

 

 

Eventually you wake up and realise what you can actually get is so low on the barometer of attractiveness(tinder and dating sites are good to establish this base line) you simply don't bother or you just settle for it in the hope you find happiness. Bottom line is I'd rather be alone than settle for someone I don't want or find attractive. I'd rather live in a world imagining how good it must be than live in a reality of underwhelming mediocrity.

[normal person]

Ask yourself this an I mean really think about it. Why is it this forum is populated with many guys like me but almost no females like me? Ask yourself, its very simple because its females who get to do the choosing, unless the guy is super good looking or super wealthy then he has the power of choice, for the most part, us guys stand around like clown hoping someone will find us impressive. Why do guys have to approach? Logically the entire "game" makes no sense at all.

 

No one ever said a guy "has" to approach. Men approach women they find desirable enough. Women will also approach men if they're desirable enough. It's not such a strange occurrence (go to any number of bars in lower Manhattan on a Saturday night and you'll see my point). A big reason they typically do it less is because women have more to lose in the process. For one, the act of doing it can make them seem desperate, unflattering, slutty, etc. Secondly, for men, sex can be more or less disposable. For women, sex resulting in pregnancy is a life altering thing.

 

Still, all that being said, no gender "gets" to do the choosing. Desirable people get chosen regardless of gender. This is not a gender issue. It's a desirability issue. If you want better results, be a more desirable person. This is no secret. The most accomplished, best looking, most interesting people usually get the best results. So people can go to the gym and go to school to become doctors and lawyers, developing interesting traits, talents, and lives, and not have many issues with the opposite sex. If you invest your time and resources in yourself, eventually the dividends will probably pay off. If you choose to invest your time in other things that aren't as valued by society (television, video games, mediocrity, drugs, etc), you have to accept the reality of your decision at some point.

 

Why is it guys must look stupid approaching someone who isn't single. Why is it ladies cant approach and show interest? Why is it guys must sit at a date and sell themselves like some used car salesman, which further reinforces my point above.

 

None of these things "have" to happen or occur under law. They occur naturally as a result of the social environment.

 

I had to sit for an hours trying to convince this lady I was a nice guy, did she sell herself, NOT ONCE, did she tell me anything about herself which would impress me"; NOT ONCE. This patter has repeated itself on every single coffee date I have been on. Ladies don't sell themselves at all

 

She didn't need to sell herself because either:

1). You had already "bought" whatever she was selling when you asked her out. She had nothing to prove. She already had your attention, time, and presumably affection. What did she need to impress you anymore for? And/or...

 

2). She wasn't that interested in you so there was no sense trying to sell herself any further.

 

Whoever is more desirable has the leverage and can exude less effort. If you already desire her, she doesn't have to do anything else to win you over, or she doesn't think you're worth the effort.

 

Ladies don't sell themselves at all

 

Again, a women doesn't have to sell herself if you buy upfront. Let's say she's a door to door saleswoman. Normally salespeople will have to convince you to buy something. But she rings your doorbell and before she says a word you've already got your wallet out. You're giving her everything already. If you ask her out, she's already got leverage. You need to flip positions. You want her to try and impress you. Tell her you've already got something like the thing she's selling and it works great, let her know your time is valuable, tell her you're not impressed yet, etc.

 

Rather than ask, you have to be asked, or merely agree to go out, or concede.

 

If you want be desirable to a person, first you need desirable qualities, there's no escaping that. But once you have them you have to understand their value. When you develop more desirable traits, commensurately your attention and time increase in value and become things that need to be earned. Desirable traits are in short supply and demand is high. Desirable people don't give themselves away, they're earned.

 

Plain and simple, if you want a woman to sell herself to you, you need to

1). have something she wants (something desirable about you: humor, success, looks, ambition, etc) and

 

2). you need to make her earn it.

 

 

It seems to me the female population are only impressed by two things

: good looks

: money

 

If these were the only things women cared about, the only men in relationships would be good looking and rich. We know that's not the case. And women typically aren't as superficial when it comes to a man's looks, so men have it easier in that regard.

 

 

Who determines what is attractive, the media? How has the world gone so wrong that traits such as honesty and the ability to care are rendered irrelevant by nonsense such as sexual prowess and so called "manly" characteristics?

 

Attraction is based in biology and survival instinct. Not societal notions of niceness. The world hasn't gone "wrong," it merely is and always has been. Humans, animals, and all life on Earth hasn't survived up to this point by being nice to each other. The people still around are the ones who used their evolutionary advantages to acquire resources and reproduce better than the others. That's it.

 

Being, nice, honest, and caring isn't going to put food in your kids' mouths or put a roof over their heads. That's why they're pretty much irrelevant in regards to attraction. If you're too nice and caring, you're likely to get taken advantage of by someone else trying to secure their own survival and/or reproduction. That's why women like aggressive, confident men who acquire and take resources rather than passive, nice, caring ones who give them away. It's just science.

 

Everyone here is right on one thing, I refuse to conform to a conformist world full of crowd mentality. If I achieve nothing in life at least I can say I was my own person, sure I paid the price for it by being alone.

 

People "conform" because they want the best for themselves and the best chance of survival, reproduction, healthy kids, etc. Your gripe is with science, not a crowd mentality. Would you call a wolf a conformist for eating a sheep because that's how all the other wolves survive? Life isn't a fairy tale. Every living thing on this planet is just trying to give itself the best odds for survival and reproduction. Some of it isn't nice or convenient. I'm sorry, but that's the way it is. If you think you're above it all and you want to abstain, you're welcome to do so, but at some point you have to accept the realities of the universe and stop complaining about them.

Edited April 26, 2016 by normal person

[ZA Dater]

No one ever said a guy "has" to approach. Men approach women they find desirable enough. Women will also approach men if they're desirable enough. It's not such a strange occurrence (go to any number of bars in lower Manhattan on a Saturday night and you'll see my point). A big reason they typically do it less is because women have more to lose in the process. For one, the act of doing it can make them seem desperate, unflattering, slutty, etc. Secondly, for men, sex can be more or less disposable. For women, sex resulting in pregnancy is a life altering thing.

 

Still, all that being said, no gender "gets" to do the choosing. Desirable people get chosen regardless of gender. This is not a gender issue. It's a desirability issue. If you want better results, be a more desirable person. This is no secret. The most accomplished, best looking, most interesting people usually get the best results. So people can go to the gym and go to school to become doctors and lawyers, developing interesting traits, talents, and lives, and not have many issues with the opposite sex. If you invest your time and resources in yourself, eventually the dividends will probably pay off. If you choose to invest your time in other things that aren't as valued by society (television, video games, mediocrity, drugs, etc), you have to accept the reality of your decision at some point.

 

 

 

None of these things "have" to happen or occur under law. They occur naturally as a result of the social environment.

 

 

 

She didn't need to sell herself because either:

1). You had already "bought" whatever she was selling when you asked her out. She had nothing to prove. She already had your attention, time, and presumably affection. What did she need to impress you anymore for? And/or...

 

2). She wasn't that interested in you so there was no sense trying to sell herself any further.

 

Whoever is more desirable has the leverage and can exude less effort. If you already desire her, she doesn't have to do anything else to win you over, or she doesn't think you're worth the effort.

 

 

 

Again, a women doesn't have to sell herself if you buy upfront. Let's say she's a door to door saleswoman. Normally salespeople will have to convince you to buy something. But she rings your doorbell and before she says a word you've already got your wallet out. You're giving her everything already. If you ask her out, she's already got leverage. You need to flip positions. You want her to try and impress you. Tell her you've already got something like the thing she's selling and it works great, let her know your time is valuable, tell her you're not impressed yet, etc.

 

Rather than ask, you have to be asked, or merely agree to go out, or concede.

 

If you want be desirable to a person, first you need desirable qualities, there's no escaping that. But once you have them you have to understand their value. When you develop more desirable traits, commensurately your attention and time increase in value and become things that need to be earned. Desirable traits are in short supply and demand is high. Desirable people don't give themselves away, they're earned.

 

Plain and simple, if you want a woman to sell herself to you, you need to

1). have something she wants (something desirable about you: humor, success, looks, ambition, etc) and

 

2). you need to make her earn it.

 

 

 

 

If these were the only things women cared about, the only men in relationships would be good looking and rich. We know that's not the case. And women typically aren't as superficial when it comes to a man's looks, so men have it easier in that regard.

 

 

 

 

Attraction is based in biology and survival instinct. Not societal notions of niceness. The world hasn't gone "wrong," it merely is and always has been. Humans, animals, and all life on Earth hasn't survived up to this point by being nice to each other. The people still around are the ones who used their evolutionary advantages to acquire resources and reproduce better than the others. That's it.

 

Being, nice, honest, and caring isn't going to put food in your kids' mouths or put a roof over their heads. That's why they're pretty much irrelevant in regards to attraction. If you're too nice and caring, you're likely to get taken advantage of by someone else trying to secure their own survival and/or reproduction. That's why women like aggressive, confident men who acquire and take resources rather than passive, nice, caring ones who give them away. It's just science.

 

 

 

People "conform" because they want the best for themselves and the best chance of survival, reproduction, healthy kids, etc. Your gripe is with science, not a crowd mentality. Would you call a wolf a conformist for eating a sheep because that's how all the other wolves survive? Life isn't a fairy tale. Every living thing on this planet is just trying to give itself the best odds for survival and reproduction. Some of it isn't nice or convenient. I'm sorry, but that's the way it is. If you think you're above it all and you want to abstain, you're welcome to do so, but at some point you have to accept the realities of the universe and stop complaining about them.

 

1: I wouldn't know, never seen it happen unless she is drunk in which case I have seen it happen.

 

 

2: Point proven society dictates what is desirable, more crowd mentality.

 

 

3: Valued by society, again more crowd mentality and no actually thinking required, society says my man should be this so anything else is wrong and I must not take that. Great.

 

 

4: Desirable qualities which all focus on the tangible seemingly, hence my comment re looks and money. Those guys have far more of a choice than most ordinary people.

 

 

5: Ok, I'll stop being a caring kind person because society once again says its bad and unmanly.

 

 

6: You are right, I choose not to conform to what society expects me to be, made that choice a long time ago. At least I can wake up each day and know I am me and not trying to be someone I am not in order to try to please society in the hope society may find me a date.

 

 

I'll pay dearly for that choice and I am but at least I can hold my hand up and say I haven't used ladies for the selfless pursuit of sex only to discard them afterwards.

[normal person]

2: Point proven society dictates what is desirable, more crowd mentality.

 

Do you really think society is just some big conspiracy?

Maybe, just maybe, people act the way they do because it's a natural reaction the world and circumstances around them. Otherwise it would be pretty coincidental that most people want the same things, don't you think?

 

If you boil everything down to the most basic level, people are just trying to first survive, then reproduce. People would rather live comfortably and pass on their genes than die, or live uncomfortably and not pass on their genes. It's not a conscious choice. It's instinctual. Desirable things are desirable because they help improve chances of living safely, comfortably, enjoyably, and producing offspring. The only "crowd" mentality is the "crowd" of people who want those things. Which is most people.

 

3: Valued by society, again more crowd mentality and no actually thinking required, society says my man should be this so anything else is wrong and I must not take that. Great.

 

Attraction is irrational. You can't control who you're attracted to. Thought isn't required to begin with.

 

4: Desirable qualities which all focus on the tangible seemingly, hence my comment re looks and money. Those guys have far more of a choice than most ordinary people.

 

Again, not a conspiracy. Most people tend to agree on what's attractive in the opposite sex. It's biological. Good looks are thought to be an indicator of health and fertility. Someone with money has a better chance of surviving than someone without it. You can only help your looks so much. But if you can figure out how to get a lot of resources (ex: money), suddenly you're a lot more attractive than you were before. It's not rocket science that people with money have more choice. That's what money affords you, amongst other things. If you want a better shot at success, get more money. Enter a high paying profession. Succeed in business. Don't be ordinary. It's a survival of the fittest, and oftentimes, money is an indicator of fitness for this environment. Complaining won't change anything.

 

5: Ok, I'll stop being a caring kind person because society once again says its bad and unmanly.

 

No one's suggesting you stop caring about people. Plenty of happily paired up people are caring. "Society" values caring. We give to charity. We save the weak. But this isn't the factor that determines whether someone is attractive or not. It's not a bad thing, and it's good for society, but it's just that other things are more relevant and attractive in individual partners. If you don't fill someone else's biggest requirements, that person won't care if you're a jerk or the nicest person in the world. It's irrelevant.

 

I'm not saying suggesting you stop caring, but I am suggesting you stop acting like the fact that you're a caring person should carry any significant weight in regards to attraction. There are caring people who are single and those who are married. There are uncaring people who are both single and married. How caring you are will only matter to someone if they're already attracted to you.

 

6: You are right, I choose not to conform to what society expects me to be, made that choice a long time ago. At least I can wake up each day and know I am me and not trying to be someone I am not in order to try to please society in the hope society may find me a date.

 

Whatever makes you feel better.

 

But people who try to survive and reproduce aren't "conforming." They're surviving and reproducing. See my wolf and sheep analogy in my previous post. Is the wolf a conformist for eating a sheep to survive? Or should he just declare to the other wolves that he isn't a sheep eating conformist and wear it like a badge of pride while he starves?

 

It's just the reality of life. It isn't pretty. There are only so many life-sustaining resources out there and desirable people to make children with. There will be ugliness as people fight over them.

 

I don't appreciate the sanctimonious suggestion that people doing what they've done since the dawn of time are "trying to be something they're not." Everyone is exactly who they are. Most actions we take are to better our chances at survival and reproduction. The very reason you're here on this message board is because you haven't had success and you're trying to figure out how to better your chances, not to boast that you're above it all.

 

I'll pay dearly for that choice and I am but at least I can hold my hand up and say I haven't used ladies for the selfless pursuit of sex only to discard them afterwards.

 

No one's saying you have to do that anyways. Suggesting that men are only either selfless misogynists or caring and honest gentlemen is a dramatic oversimplification and you know it. By the way, women enjoy casual sex too.

 

People of both genders might treat each other poorly sometimes to get what they want/need. Most probably don't feel particularly good about it, but they'd rather live the with guilt than the alternative. Deep down, thieves probably don't revel in their thievery. They just need money to eat. I'm not saying it's good or bad, I'm just saying it happens and it will continue to happen regardless of complaint.

[Rejected Rosebud]

Or simply just accept what is and move on. Forgiving is easy, accepting an undesirable outcome is much less so.

 

That's the best idea, I'm sorry to say. You are very stubborn. You don't want to overcome any of your stumbling blocks; you just want the world to change in a way that just delivers you what you want. It doesn't work that way for anybody, but those of us who accept it, learn and gain. Not you though.

 

I agree that you should completely quit thinking about dating and focus on whatever brings you joy and fulfillment in your life.

Edited April 26, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[William]

That'll cover the berating for one afternoon.

[ZA Dater]

That's the best idea, I'm sorry to say. You are very stubborn. You don't want to overcome any of your stumbling blocks; you just want the world to change in a way that just delivers you what you want. It doesn't work that way for anybody, but those of us who accept it, learn and gain. Not you though.

 

I agree that you should completely quit thinking about dating and focus on whatever brings you joy and fulfillment in your life.

 

 

Thanks.

 

 

Not stubborn at all just trying to apply logic to something to which logic seemingly cannot be applied. I do feel better though knowing there is a 10/10 looks wise model with a great personality who also cannot find a date/relationship. Much easier to walk away knowing if someone like that cant find anyone then what are my chances.

 

 

At least a friend said to me this morning how impressed women who come in contact with me are with my manners( had a former model staying with me when she rented out her apartment) and gentlemanly attributes, so at least I do something right, even if its "not a desirable" quality.

 

 

There are no stumbling blocks for me, I simply don't fit into what society wants and what people define as being desirable. Quite simple. People can either embrace who they are or they can loath it, I am going to try embrace being a near 32yo, no relationship ever, virgin guy.

 

 

My wants are simple, I am just not prepared to sell my soul to get them or conform to get them.

 

 

I feel like part of that heavy load on my shoulders has now been lifted. The most powerful attribute is the mind and with it we can think whatever we want and create whatever we want.

[PrettyEmily77]

^^^ That's actually a step in the right direction.

 

You absolutely need to live your life in your own terms, and you need to start believing that it's ok to not have had a relationship at 32. It's not only ok, it actually looks like it might be a deliberate, albeit unconscious, choice.

 

You seem to be an accomplished guy in your professional field so you have already demonstrated to yourself that you can achieve things when you put your mind to it, so it could simply be that you might not want a relationship as much as you think you do.

 

For some, actively trying to find a date is a fun, exciting, enjoyable way to find a partner. For some, it's a necessary evil they don't mind subjecting themselves to and can accept the bad without letting it affect them too much. There are also a few people for whom living their lives without actively looking for a partner at all is the best way to go, and that's fine too. Maybe relaxing a little and let destiny take its course is the right way for you to go.

Edited April 28, 2016 by PrettyEmily77

[ZA Dater]

So I went on another tinder date. She wasn't attractive to me but at least I am getting better and more confident about speaking about myself and selling. She looked attractive in pics but the reality wasn't the same.

 

See I do listen to the advice given. May be meeting someone else on Sunday.

[PrettyEmily77]

So I went on another tinder date. She wasn't attractive to me but at least I am getting better and more confident about speaking about myself and selling. She looked attractive in pics but the reality wasn't the same.

 

See I do listen to the advice given. May be meeting someone else on Sunday.

 

Great news! Soon you'll be coming back here and giving advice yourself on how it's done

[Kics]

If you feel lonely have you tried doing crossfit? You should try it! You could make friends there. As a single girl I would prefer to date a guy that doesn't have a lot experience so not all girls are turn off that you are a virgin!

I try online dating and I ended up liking the guy that was the least attractive, so we don't all care about looks because they eventually fade. To be honest 32 is still young and attractive to me at least. Maybe when dating or trying to make friends don't go into it like you expect something back from them, just show genuine interest on what they are saying? BTW I have asked out guys and didn't work out for me so now I expect them to do the work if they really like me. Good luck!

[ZA Dater]

I had another tinder date with someone else, this one wasn't a heck of a lot better than the first one in terms of attraction, she was older (34) and I have learned to just take these dates at face value and not look at them as being a success or not. Just go and see what happens and expect nothing more.

 

Maybe the solution is to not lets own existence be defined by one success at attracting dates.

[carhill]

Sounds like things are moving along. The more first dates, the easier and more fluid the interactions will become. If you think about it, the only reason they became more 'important' than any of the billions of people you don't know and don't care about is because you 'liked' them enough to ask them on a date. That's pretty much it. If it's a no-go, the like was valid but they're still one of the billions so back to the billions they go. Ironically, I learned this lesson much like you did, from repeated rejections from women I asked on dates. It took awhile to penetrate my thick skull but got in there eventually.

 

Thanks for the update and good luck!

[ZA Dater]

Sounds like things are moving along. The more first dates, the easier and more fluid the interactions will become. If you think about it, the only reason they became more 'important' than any of the billions of people you don't know and don't care about is because you 'liked' them enough to ask them on a date. That's pretty much it. If it's a no-go, the like was valid but they're still one of the billions so back to the billions they go. Ironically, I learned this lesson much like you did, from repeated rejections from women I asked on dates. It took awhile to penetrate my thick skull but got in there eventually.

 

Thanks for the update and good luck!

 

My tactic here is somewhat flawed but I have reasons for doing this. I am going out with anyone who is prepared to actually meet up with me, irrespective if I find them very attractive, both these dates were quite low on the rating scale but I thought why not, I have no intention of sleeping with them but I'll buy them dinner and at least then I get an opportunity to practice selling and finding some confidence.

 

On the last two fronts I think I have managed to make a some progress. What has also helped is people actually recognising my good qualities, yes those ladies are well out of my league but at least "you know he is such a gentleman, he is a nice guy", in some ways those compliments mean more to me than actually going on a date.

[carhill]

Going on more dates builds dating and social skills and, you never know, you might take a fancy to one of those ladies you initially weren't off-center with attraction-wise. Life is a mystery sometimes in such regards.

 

I pretty much did the same thing, asking out women I met and who appeared to be single, mainly because there were so few single women and I got burned pretty bad dating the married ones. Guys with sharper skills did better with those.

 

If you want a relationship, live, make mistakes and learn. You'll get there.

[normal person]

No offense, but I can't help notice the irony in some of these posts.

 

I'll pay dearly for that choice and I am but at least I can hold my hand up and say I haven't used ladies for the selfless pursuit of sex only to discard them afterwards.

 

My tactic here is somewhat flawed but I have reasons for doing this. I am going out with anyone who is prepared to actually meet up with me, irrespective if I find them very attractive, both these dates were quite low on the rating scale but I thought why not, I have no intention of sleeping with them but I'll buy them dinner and at least then I get an opportunity to practice selling and finding some confidence.

 

So you won't waste someone's time for sex, but you'll gladly waste the time of people you don't find attractive for "practice" and to boost your own ego under the pretense that you might like them.

 

Look, I'm not judging you. As I said or alluded to in earlier posts, everyone will do to get what they need, even if it's at someone else's expense. The point being, although you wave the "nice guy" flag proudly and complain that the modern dating world scorns you for it, and insist that you'll never conform to the indignity of modern dating practices, you do exactly that. You're wasting someone else's time for your own benefit. It doesn't matter that you're buying them dinner, it's still deceptive, because they're after a relationship, not food. I wonder how those women would feel if you told them up front, "Even though I don't find you particularly attractive, I decided to go out with you so I could practice a bit and have you tell me how much of an honorable gentleman I am. In exchange for your time, you can order the chicken or fish."

 

I don't blame you for doing what you feel you need to do for yourself as most will. But maybe it's time to reconsider the high and mighty act, because this whole thing doesn't make you seem particularly exalted or "nice." It makes you like everyone else.

Edited May 2, 2016 by normal person

[ZA Dater]

No offense, but I can't help notice the irony in some of these posts.

 

 

 

 

 

So you won't waste someone's time for sex, but you'll gladly waste the time of people you don't find attractive for "practice" and to boost your own ego under the pretense that you might like them.

 

Look, I'm not judging you. As I said or alluded to in earlier posts, everyone will do to get what they need, even if it's at someone else's expense. The point being, although you wave the "nice guy" flag proudly and complain that the modern dating world scorns you for it, and insist that you'll never conform to the indignity of modern dating practices, you do exactly that. You're wasting someone else's time for your own benefit. It doesn't matter that you're buying them dinner, it's still deceptive, because they're after a relationship, not food. I wonder how those women would feel if you told them up front, "Even though I don't find you particularly attractive, I decided to go out with you so I could practice a bit and have you tell me how much of an honorable gentleman I am. In exchange for your time, you can order the chicken or fish."

 

I don't blame you for doing what you feel you need to do for yourself as most will. But maybe it's time to reconsider the high and mighty act, because this whole thing doesn't make you seem particularly exalted or "nice." It makes you like everyone else.

 

Seeing as my methods don't meet with your approval what would you suggest I do?

 

 

Fact is from the off they usually don't like me anyway so by the end of the date I am pretty sure they aren't going to want to see me anyway. Stupid thinking: probably.

 

 

Wasting peoples time like this is a heck of lot better than using them purely for sexual gratification. I usually bring out the friend zone card somewhere during the date.

 

 

The band of people I find desirable is such a small one anyway that I know that most who would go out with me on tinder don't meet that but as I keep getting told here its a numbers game so I treating it as two things

: numbers

: a game not to be taken with any degree of seriousness.

[normal person]

Seeing as my methods don't meet with your approval what would you suggest I do?

 

I even said "I'm not judging you." You can do whatever you want. But I think it's a bit disingenuous to knowingly waste peoples' time for your own benefit and simultaneously claim some sort of moral high ground against other people who do it.

 

Fact is from the off they usually don't like me anyway so by the end of the date I am pretty sure they aren't going to want to see me anyway. Stupid thinking: probably.

 

"All's well that ends well," then?

 

Wasting peoples time like this is a heck of lot better than using them purely for sexual gratification.

 

"Better" is a funny term to use. I would say it's "less bad," maybe depending on the circumstances. Any deception is frowned upon. But there are lots of circumstances and nuances to consider there. Most people aren't dating just for sex. And yet, casual sex is pretty common in the world. If both people are attracted to each other, or at least willing, it's consensual and mutually enjoyable (usually). Oftentimes it's understood that it's a one-off, and that's fine and acceptable by both parties, no deception. At least both parties get what they expected. Having sex under false pretenses is deceptive and wrong. But the pretenses aren't always false. Your dating pretenses are.

 

Meeting someone you aren't attracted to just to "practice" or stroke your ego is deceptive because the other party is risking their time thinking they might gain a relationship, but in reality you aren't attracted to them and therefore have no intent of entering one. Are there "casual" dates where people go out once, both with the intention of never doing it again? Maybe, under some circumstances, but that doesn't sound like what you're up to.

 

I usually bring out the friend zone card somewhere during the date.

 

I don't really know what you mean by this.

 

The band of people I find desirable is such a small one anyway that I know that most who would go out with me on tinder don't meet that but as I keep getting told here its a numbers game so I treating it as two things

: numbers

: a game not to be taken with any degree of seriousness.

 

That's fine, but to illustrate my point, you're doing the same things other people are doing. You're using other peoples' time (or money, sex, resources, whatever) for your own benefit at their expense. Again, I'm not passing judgement, but I'm highlighting the blatant similarities between your own behavior and the behavior you're very outspokenly against. You called people "conformists" for doing what they felt was best for them at the expense of others, but you do the same thing. That's all.

[ZA Dater]

I even said "I'm not judging you." You can do whatever you want. But I think it's a bit disingenuous to knowingly waste peoples' time for your own benefit and simultaneously claim some sort of moral high ground against other people who do it.

 

 

 

"All's well that ends well," then?

 

 

 

"Better" is a funny term to use. I would say it's "less bad," maybe depending on the circumstances. Any deception is frowned upon. But there are lots of circumstances and nuances to consider there. Most people aren't dating just for sex. And yet, casual sex is pretty common in the world. If both people are attracted to each other, or at least willing, it's consensual and mutually enjoyable (usually). Oftentimes it's understood that it's a one-off, and that's fine and acceptable by both parties, no deception. At least both parties get what they expected. Having sex under false pretenses is deceptive and wrong. But the pretenses aren't always false. Your dating pretenses are.

 

Meeting someone you aren't attracted to just to "practice" or stroke your ego is deceptive because the other party is risking their time thinking they might gain a relationship, but in reality you aren't attracted to them and therefore have no intent of entering one. Are there "casual" dates where people go out once, both with the intention of never doing it again? Maybe, under some circumstances, but that doesn't sound like what you're up to.

 

 

 

I don't really know what you mean by this.

 

 

 

That's fine, but to illustrate my point, you're doing the same things other people are doing. You're using other peoples' time (or money, sex, resources, whatever) for your own benefit at their expense. Again, I'm not passing judgement, but I'm highlighting the blatant similarities between your own behavior and the behavior you're very outspokenly against. You called people "conformists" for doing what they felt was best for them at the expense of others, but you do the same thing. That's all.

 

Maybe because I refused to "use" people I never got anywhere in the past. Maybe I have realised this a world where everyone uses everyone else in some way or other.

Maybe its impossible to really take the moral high ground when it comes to dating, if you do you don't get anywhere as a result.

 

 

No ego stroking involved at all, ultimately I am not better off than I was when I sat down. The reality is neither of these two people were compatible with me at all, they could see that quickly and I could too. The one firstly didn't look anything like her pictures.

 

 

What you are basically telling me is "only meet people you are attracted to", if did that I would never be going any dates at all, as has been my past experience.

 

 

Here I put some effort to actually do something and clearly that isn't right either.

 

 

Tough crowd here.

[carhill]

IMO, ask out on dates whom you wish to socialize with. All associations and agreements are voluntary so you're no more or less wasting their time than they are yours. The date is a meeting of the minds. Where it goes from there depends on the minds continuing to meet.

 

Also, identify your style. If it is love at first sight, and such has happened often, own that. If you're more a slow burn, own that. Compatible styles are important too, which is why dating exists, to test them out. It's as imperfect as all of us.

[ZA Dater]

IMO, ask out on dates whom you wish to socialize with. All associations and agreements are voluntary so you're no more or less wasting their time than they are yours. The date is a meeting of the minds. Where it goes from there depends on the minds continuing to meet.

 

Also, identify your style. If it is love at first sight, and such has happened often, own that. If you're more a slow burn, own that. Compatible styles are important too, which is why dating exists, to test them out. It's as imperfect as all of us.

 

The above seems to correlate more with my thinking.

 

 

There is actually someone I met a few weeks ago, I dismissed her as a serious prospect by virtue of the fact she is stunning and far out of my league but have met her briefly a few times subsequently (with friends) and she is just nice and there is something about her I like personality wise.

 

 

Perhaps the thing I am learning is a renewed sense of self worth, some of those walls are being broken down now and I just generally feel a bit better.

 

 

I'll admit I was wrong about many things and I just going to try maintain this momentum.

[Chris2016]

Going on more dates builds dating and social skills and, you never know, you might take a fancy to one of those ladies you initially weren't off-center with attraction-wise. Life is a mystery sometimes in such regards.

 

I pretty much did the same thing, asking out women I met and who appeared to be single, mainly because there were so few single women and I got burned pretty bad dating the married ones. Guys with sharper skills did better with those.

 

If you want a relationship, live, make mistakes and learn. You'll get there.

 

^^^^^ This

[Chris2016]

My last date was many many years ago.

 

I just started again ...

 

I tried, got no responses.

 

Tried again (with someone else), got a response.

 

Had a first date; several more dates.

 

First time going to a woman's place, at age 40! Crazy huh? But it is what it is. I'm trying. (There was no hanky panky, if you're curious.)

 

Discovered my attraction to her can wane.

 

Discovered I was more attracted when she told her story, why she is where she is today.

 

It isn't a romantic match. I think she knows it too.

 

Ask me several months back, if all this would have taken place? I couldn't see it. But it took place.

 

I hope to get more dates/opportunities. It is a good experience.

[StreetsKings]

The above seems to correlate more with my thinking.

 

 

There is actually someone I met a few weeks ago, I dismissed her as a serious prospect by virtue of the fact she is stunning and far out of my league but have met her briefly a few times subsequently (with friends) and she is just nice and there is something about her I like personality wise.

 

 

Perhaps the thing I am learning is a renewed sense of self worth, some of those walls are being broken down now and I just generally feel a bit better.

 

 

I'll admit I was wrong about many things and I just going to try maintain this momentum.

 

 

You dismissed her because she was too pretty? Seems counter productive to write off the women you are attracted to, yet take out the ones you don't find appealing.

 

What would "your league" even be if I may ask? If you think you're only capable of luring in grotesque, low class kinds of women, then that's obviously all you'll draw in.

 

Not sure where you are from but Here's an example: If you were an amateur fisherman who just started fishing and learning what bait works best.... All the time up to now you've just fished using the same exact spot in the water , and you only used 1 kind of bait. That hasn't worked at all so finally you're starting to take other experienced fishermans advice and use a bunch of different bait, mix it up to change your odds, and exploring other fishing spots where others have ensured you'll have better chances....

 

So one day you're out fishing, and you see the fin of a shark in the water. Not a great white or something crazy, just a small but more rare fish than you initially went out looking for. Why not just throw your line/bait, that you're already setting out to use... Over in the area where the shark is?

 

There's nothing to lose. Just go talk to the pretty girl and see how far/deep you can get into a conversation before she has to leave, or gets uncomfortable, or turns you down, or maybe even gives u her number. It's a whole lot more fun fishing for sharks than it is fishing for goldfish.

Agree?