I went on a date and the search..

[BronzeAgeJaeger217]

^^^ That's actually a step in the right direction.

 

You absolutely need to live your life in your own terms, and you need to start believing that it's ok to not have had a relationship at 32. It's not only ok, it actually looks like it might be a deliberate, albeit unconscious, choice.

 

You seem to be an accomplished guy in your professional field so you have already demonstrated to yourself that you can achieve things when you put your mind to it, so it could simply be that you might not want a relationship as much as you think you do.

 

For some, actively trying to find a date is a fun, exciting, enjoyable way to find a partner. For some, it's a necessary evil they don't mind subjecting themselves to and can accept the bad without letting it affect them too much. There are also a few people for whom living their lives without actively looking for a partner at all is the best way to go, and that's fine too. Maybe relaxing a little and let destiny take its course is the right way for you to go.

Oh c'mon, never having had a relationship by age 32? That's very sad, why would it be okay?

[hasaquestion]

Oh c'mon, never having had a relationship by age 32? That's very sad, why would it be okay?

 

Because one's general worth isn't and shouldn't be defined by whether or not they've had a relationship?

[Imajerk17]

Any updates ZA?

 

I think it is fine to go on dates to "practice" and to see what it is that you really want in a partner.

 

Getting back to a point made earlier: I think it is fine for EITHER gender to go on dates to see what it is that you really want in a partner. I think it becomes a problem only if you are misleading or using people--e.g., leading women on just to get sex, or trying to get guys you aren't interested in or really available for, to buy you dinner.

[ZA Dater]

Any updates ZA?

 

I think it is fine to go on dates to "practice" and to see what it is that you really want in a partner.

 

Getting back to a point made earlier: I think it is fine for EITHER gender to go on dates to see what it is that you really want in a partner. I think it becomes a problem only if you are misleading or using people--e.g., leading women on just to get sex, or trying to get guys you aren't interested in or really available for, to buy you dinner.

 

Well there is an update of sorts.

 

Met up with two other people, neither I liked. There was nothing wrong with them per se just absolutely no attraction at all. I just did the time honoured dinner date thing with both and in fact with the one of the conversation just sort of died. I just didn't really feel anything or see any real potential with either of them. Having said that I did try, tried to get them to laugh.

 

I think I have a problem though and I don't really know what it is how to fix it.

 

I actually managed to open up to a friend about the failure of my dating life in its entirety and I thought his perspective what be interesting because he is a guy who has had a lot of gf's. What I got back just made me feel ever worse "you must befriend the less attractive girls because they may have pretty friends", I don't feel right about that.

 

He doesn't see the merit in OLD at all (granted he is slightly older than I am).

 

I tried to explain the issue I have and his answer is "well the ones you met, they also feel bad when you don't like them", fair point I guess but how many of them have never had ANYONE like them.

 

Trying as hard as I can to try get rid of that feeling but it never really goes away, I have in the past tried to befriend people who didn't like me in the dating context but I wasn't even good enough in a friend context either and that hurts, probably more than being rejected.

 

The feeling is just nobody I like ever liking me, has anyone here ever managed to find a way of getting rid of that feeling? In short I am desperate for some success however it may be defined. Just for once someone I like to actually like me.

 

When I have friends telling me "oh its not that bad, you at least have had dates", I just find it rather patronising, again maybe I am wrong, happy to be wrong.

 

Maybe the problem is the people I am taking on these dates don't really interest me that much to begin with and that's where the problem lies, maybe I am just hoping intellectually they are fantastic. Or maybe the problem is me, maybe I have just taken a liking to certain personality traits that are hard to find. Maybe I have built up an expectation that is unrealistic based on my own strengths and what I have to offer.

 

I guess I also get irritated when I hear things like this

 

"Yes well my friend uses Tinder and he has a new chick every week" or "Oh my friend is 44 an he only sleeps with 20-24yo girls".

 

Here I am trying to be a good guy, trying to be not that guy and where is it taking me? The proviso is both those guys, party, are very outgoing.

[normal person]

Maybe the problem is the people I am taking on these dates don't really interest me that much to begin with and that's where the problem lies, maybe I am just hoping intellectually they are fantastic. Or maybe the problem is me, maybe I have just taken a liking to certain personality traits that are hard to find. Maybe I have built up an expectation that is unrealistic based on my own strengths and what I have to offer.

 

If they don't give you any inclination that you might be attracted to them or interested in them in some way, this is what will keep happening to you. You have to want to go out with someone, not do it to practice or for something else. Perhaps your expectations are unrealistic, but maybe not. What are they?

 

I guess I also get irritated when I hear things like this

 

"Yes well my friend uses Tinder and he has a new chick every week" or "Oh my friend is 44 an he only sleeps with 20-24yo girls".

 

Here I am trying to be a good guy, trying to be not that guy and where is it taking me? The proviso is both those guys, party, are very outgoing.

 

Why? The lens you look at things through is so warped.

 

Why do you assume that someone having consensual sex is automatically bad and that by not doing it you're "good?" I don't see anything to indicate there's a morality issue yet. If the girl is of legal age and wants to have consensual sex with someone, I don't see why that imputes a value judgment for anyone. As long as there's no deception or coercion involved, I don't see why two adults can't make their own choices.

 

Further, women typically tend to want to sleep with outgoing, exciting, gregarious, charismatic, aggressive men. Passive, sexually uninteresting ones? Not so much. Do you think these women would sleep with your friend if they didn't want to? That he's tricking them somehow? He's succeeding because he's giving them what they want. It's not rocket science. It couldn't be simpler.

 

The point being, the moral paradigm of "good" and "bad" has little to do with this, because it doesn't matter much in this arena. If you're exciting, funny, entertaining, chairming, etc, lots of women will want to sleep with you whether or you're a saint or a hedonistic drug dealer. The same thing is true on the opposite side of the coin, if you're dull, passive, and lacking confidence, it will be unattractive regardless of how many orphans you sponsor or how many people you endangered with your DUI.

 

There's no need to invoke morality so much. It's not nearly as relevant as you think it is. Instead of thinking in terms of "I'm good, other guys are bad," you need to think in terms of "Other guys who are getting what I want are X, so what am I?"

[elaine567]

Here I am trying to be a good guy, trying to be not that guy and where is it taking me? The proviso is both those guys, party, are very outgoing.

 

Maybe stop "trying to be" anybody and be yourself.

There is nothing worse that fake people, most can spot them a mile off and it is not an attractive trait.

Trying to be funny, trying to be interesting, trying to be a "bad boy", trying to be a "nice guy"... "trying to be" always gets found out eventually, so just be who you are.

Maybe that is part of what is turning people off, they sense that you are "trying to be" something that you are not and that gives them an uncomfortable feeling.

 

You never speak about your family or your childhood, how did that go exactly?

[ZA Dater]

Maybe stop "trying to be" anybody and be yourself.

There is nothing worse that fake people, most can spot them a mile off and it is not an attractive trait.

Trying to be funny, trying to be interesting, trying to be a "bad boy", trying to be a "nice guy"... "trying to be" always gets found out eventually, so just be who you are.

Maybe that is part of what is turning people off, they sense that you are "trying to be" something that you are not and that gives them an uncomfortable feeling.

 

You never speak about your family or your childhood, how did that go exactly?

 

I probably need to rephrase slightly, I am always being me just me is so different to anyone else seemingly in my mannerisms. I definitely go out being me but I am conscious of the fact I need to be more outgoing on dates, really be charming and try make people laugh, don't most guys do that sort of thing?

 

 

Childhood, well I was diagnosed with a learning disability and went to a school catering for that spent 4 years there and went to a normal school. Got my degree and did well academically thanks to just never giving up, the prizes for perseverance came my way often. Friends I have never really been able to make many of them, my small group of school friends are all married barring one. I have a sister we aren't close at all, she chose to walk down a path which took all of us with her and three years were spent fighting to get her to come clean. I am not saying more than that suffice to say it was an extremely tough time but we won in the end.

 

 

School life was quite lonely, I had respect but I was never popular, again my interests in politics and general knowledge just isolated me from the party, happy go lucky way HS seems to be for most people. A few girls liked me but I was too shy and no idea what I was supposed to do.

 

 

I wish I had more friends growing up, its one of the big regrets I have, likewise not harnessing that female attention I did get and making more of it.

[ZA Dater]

If they don't give you any inclination that you might be attracted to them or interested in them in some way, this is what will keep happening to you. You have to want to go out with someone, not do it to practice or for something else. Perhaps your expectations are unrealistic, but maybe not. What are they?

 

 

 

Why? The lens you look at things through is so warped.

 

Why do you assume that someone having consensual sex is automatically bad and that by not doing it you're "good?" I don't see anything to indicate there's a morality issue yet. If the girl is of legal age and wants to have consensual sex with someone, I don't see why that imputes a value judgment for anyone. As long as there's no deception or coercion involved, I don't see why two adults can't make their own choices.

 

Further, women typically tend to want to sleep with outgoing, exciting, gregarious, charismatic, aggressive men. Passive, sexually uninteresting ones? Not so much. Do you think these women would sleep with your friend if they didn't want to? That he's tricking them somehow? He's succeeding because he's giving them what they want. It's not rocket science. It couldn't be simpler.

 

The point being, the moral paradigm of "good" and "bad" has little to do with this, because it doesn't matter much in this arena. If you're exciting, funny, entertaining, chairming, etc, lots of women will want to sleep with you whether or you're a saint or a hedonistic drug dealer. The same thing is true on the opposite side of the coin, if you're dull, passive, and lacking confidence, it will be unattractive regardless of how many orphans you sponsor or how many people you endangered with your DUI.

 

There's no need to invoke morality so much. It's not nearly as relevant as you think it is. Instead of thinking in terms of "I'm good, other guys are bad," you need to think in terms of "Other guys who are getting what I want are X, so what am I?"

 

Cant really debate much here but I guess you are right. I just cant contemplate using someone for sex, doesn't make a lot of sense to me, especially as I believe most of the guys promise the world, have sex and run five miles.

 

 

The problem is I don't really want to go out with any of these Tinder matches, none really interest me but they are pretty much the only options I have so I go out and have dinner with them.

 

 

I detest those sorts of guys who boast about their "count", doesn't impress me in the least, when you have a 44yo guy who goes out to sleep with only 20-24yo ladies then yes I take a pretty dim view of that, maybe not right but it just shows me what the average female seems to want and that's a person completely the polar opposite of me in what they offer.

 

 

Second bold point just makes me sad to be honest. Likewise the next point.

 

 

Fact is I am never going to be one of these guys girls want to sleep with and there are time like now when this realisation really hurts. Being the upstanding honest nice guy gets one nowhere. Seemingly.

 

 

Reading posts like the above hurts really it does.

[normal person]

Fact is I am never going to be one of these guys girls want to sleep with and there are time like now when this realisation really hurts. Being the upstanding honest nice guy gets one nowhere. Seemingly.

 

Reading posts like the above hurts really it does.

 

I don't think you really read it that thoroughly, then. I said whether or not you're nice is mostly irrelevant.

 

For example, I'm as upstanding, nice, and honest as they come. I can't bring myself to lie to people ever. I frequently buy food for homeless people. I sponsor a child. I'm more empathetic than most. I often prioritize other people before myself. I'll make concessions for people. I'll do all these things if it doesn't hinder my own success in any noticeable way. So I'm very much like you in the sense that we are both honest, nice, and upstanding. We're similar.

 

Yet "somehow" I still manage to have sex. Why? Because as I implied in the previous post, women don't sleep with men in accordance to how nice and upstanding they are. In addition to all the things mentioned above, I'm also not a pushover, I expect the same reciprocal honesty that I give other people, I don't tolerate any kind of BS, I'm confident, aggressive at times, ambitious, practical, I can provide more than adequately, I stay in good shape, and I make an effort to be funny, interesting, entertaining, and engaging. I suspect these reasons women sleep with me, not because I'm nice. In fact I can be noticeably less nice with little to no net change, and in some cases under the right circumstances, that might actually increase my chances. Do you see the point now? There is minimal correlation between how nice males are and their amount of expected sex. The thesis has been thoroughly disproven throughout time.

 

Here's another example: Donald Trump and JP DeJoria. Trump is by most accounts an egotistical, bigoted, not-nice person. DeJoria couldn't be kinder, more accommodating, or appreciative of people. They couldn't be further from each other on the niceness spectrum. Both are married to beautiful models/actresses decades younger than them and could probably have their pick of a good swath of women on planet Earth. Why? Because they're both billionaires and thus incredibly likely to provide resources, safety, and healthy children to those women. You can be as nice or as crass as you want, it won't matter if the other things check out well enough.

 

The point being, there are so many other more important reasons a woman would decide to sleep with you or not. The fact that you keep assuming that your niceness is "the" roadblock is short-sighted. It's only a problem if it hinders you from having all the other more important things. Sure, women would probably prefer you be nice if they have the choice, but there are likely a lot of other things they'd put more stock in.

 

An interesting, funny, confident, guy with a bit of a temper and an amazing job > A boring guy on welfare who happens to be the nicest guy on Earth.

 

Society would appreciate it if you were nice to help maintain the general order of things. Women, on the other hand -- being sexual, fertile biological creatures with a ticking biological clock, who are susceptible to harm, poverty, disease, and all other other afflictions of life on a planet with finite resources -- would prefer you have confidence, aggression, and success in your genes because it means you'll be more likely to survive, protect them, and propagate the species. And once those base needs are accounted for, they'd like to be entertained, comfortable and rich, too. Having a partner who does otherwise is less likely to help them survive. It's biology, that's it. It's not so much a question of "which guys are nice and which are not nice?" it's more "which guys are most likely to provide me with resources, comfort, and healthy safe babies, and which guys are likely to get eaten?"

 

Attraction is rooted in biology and survival, not morality.

[Imajerk17]

Well there is an update of sorts.

 

Met up with two other people, neither I liked. There was nothing wrong with them per se just absolutely no attraction at all. I just did the time honoured dinner date thing with both and in fact with the one of the conversation just sort of died. I just didn't really feel anything or see any real potential with either of them. Having said that I did try, tried to get them to laugh.

 

I think I have a problem though and I don't really know what it is how to fix it.

 

I actually managed to open up to a friend about the failure of my dating life in its entirety and I thought his perspective what be interesting because he is a guy who has had a lot of gf's. What I got back just made me feel ever worse "you must befriend the less attractive girls because they may have pretty friends", I don't feel right about that.

 

He doesn't see the merit in OLD at all (granted he is slightly older than I am).

 

I tried to explain the issue I have and his answer is "well the ones you met, they also feel bad when you don't like them", fair point I guess but how many of them have never had ANYONE like them.

 

Trying as hard as I can to try get rid of that feeling but it never really goes away, I have in the past tried to befriend people who didn't like me in the dating context but I wasn't even good enough in a friend context either and that hurts, probably more than being rejected.

 

The feeling is just nobody I like ever liking me, has anyone here ever managed to find a way of getting rid of that feeling? In short I am desperate for some success however it may be defined. Just for once someone I like to actually like me.

 

When I have friends telling me "oh its not that bad, you at least have had dates", I just find it rather patronising, again maybe I am wrong, happy to be wrong.

 

Maybe the problem is the people I am taking on these dates don't really interest me that much to begin with and that's where the problem lies, maybe I am just hoping intellectually they are fantastic. Or maybe the problem is me, maybe I have just taken a liking to certain personality traits that are hard to find. Maybe I have built up an expectation that is unrealistic based on my own strengths and what I have to offer.

 

I guess I also get irritated when I hear things like this

 

"Yes well my friend uses Tinder and he has a new chick every week" or "Oh my friend is 44 an he only sleeps with 20-24yo girls".

 

Here I am trying to be a good guy, trying to be not that guy and where is it taking me? The proviso is both those guys, party, are very outgoing.

1. Well, my first bit of advice is to stop going to dinner on a first date. It's not "time-honoured", it's cliche and it's hard to build a connection sitting across from each other all formal and stuff.

 

It also starts getting expensive after a while.

 

Come up with some better first-date ideas.

 

 

2. For almost everyone, this is true: Either there is enough of a connection on the first date to go on a second date (rare), or there is no point in pursuing anything with the other person.

 

 

3. I am still not sure what you mean about "trying not to be that guy". What guy? Do you mean a guy who is proud of having a penis?

 

Last I checked, most women LIKE it if the guy they are on a date with is attracted to them, and isn't afraid to make a move to show that (i.e., trying to hold their hand). Now, there is a bit of timing involved when it comes to making a move, but that's another post.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Imajerk17

[ZA Dater]

A small update on this.

 

I have found some inner peace being single, admittedly its a fragile peace but I got a few things off my chest two weeks ago, managed to open up to a close friend and I feel quite a bit better.

 

I received birthday wishes from an unexpected source which I thought was nice and I guess in some ways I just feel more comfortable being me instead of beating myself up all the time because I am not abc.

 

Self critique for me is a brutal process.

[MGX]

That's the best idea, I'm sorry to say. You are very stubborn. You don't want to overcome any of your stumbling blocks; you just want the world to change in a way that just delivers you what you want. It doesn't work that way for anybody, but those of us who accept it, learn and gain. Not you though.

 

I agree that you should completely quit thinking about dating and focus on whatever brings you joy and fulfillment in your life.

 

Not stubborn at all just trying to apply logic to something to which logic seemingly cannot be applied. I do feel better though knowing there is a 10/10 looks wise model with a great personality who also cannot find a date/relationship. Much easier to walk away knowing if someone like that cant find anyone then what are my chances.

 

At least a friend said to me this morning how impressed women who come in contact with me are with my manners( had a former model staying with me when she rented out her apartment) and gentlemanly attributes, so at least I do something right, even if its "not a desirable" quality.

 

There are no stumbling blocks for me, I simply don't fit into what society wants and what people define as being desirable. Quite simple. People can either embrace who they are or they can loath it, I am going to try embrace being a near 32yo, no relationship ever, virgin guy.

 

My wants are simple, I am just not prepared to sell my soul to get them or conform to get them.

 

I feel like part of that heavy load on my shoulders has now been lifted. The most powerful attribute is the mind and with it we can think whatever we want and create whatever we want.

 

So what the hell happened? Why did you revert back to seeking companionship when you know what will happen--what ALWAYS happens?

 

You shouldn't let your fear of being seen as a loser in public prevent you from enjoying yourself. You're missing out on some great stuff because you think you need some chick on your arm.

Edited May 21, 2016 by MGX

[ZA Dater]

So what the hell happened? Why did you revert back to seeking companionship when you know what will happen--what ALWAYS happens?

 

You shouldn't let your fear of being seen as a loser in public prevent you from enjoying yourself. You're missing out on some great stuff because you think you need some chick on your arm.

 

The point is I simply craze some form of affection, be it a hug, a kiss or more.

 

 

My world is a lonely one and you could argue I am the one who made it that way and yes I may even agree with you on that. I just look around me, I met a completely different group of people yesterday and I fitted in particularly poorly, so badly in fact today I just feel more down than ever.

 

 

It wasn't helped either by the fact everyone zoned in on my inexperience "well we have to just put him in a position with a chick where he cant say no", things like that don't help either, just heaps more pressure on me and makes me feel even more of a misfit.

 

 

I tried to be out going, tried to put in an effort but it just seems I occupy some sort of no mans land.

 

 

The problem always is I am haunted by this lack of success, it sticks to me like tar and it drains any confidence I have.

 

 

I am going to keep trying to find someone I like who really likes me.

 

 

On another note, not sure what I am missing out on, I don't drink or party so.

[MGX]

The point is I simply craze some form of affection, be it a hug, a kiss or more.

 

My world is a lonely one and you could argue I am the one who made it that way and yes I may even agree with you on that. I just look around me, I met a completely different group of people yesterday and I fitted in particularly poorly, so badly in fact today I just feel more down than ever.

 

It wasn't helped either by the fact everyone zoned in on my inexperience "well we have to just put him in a position with a chick where he cant say no", things like that don't help either, just heaps more pressure on me and makes me feel even more of a misfit.

 

I tried to be out going, tried to put in an effort but it just seems I occupy some sort of no mans land.

 

The problem always is I am haunted by this lack of success, it sticks to me like tar and it drains any confidence I have.

 

I am going to keep trying to find someone I like who really likes me.

 

I think you should OWN your freedom and focus on the positive aspects of it. You don't have any responsibilities or obligations to anyone; you can come and go as you please. No dealing with pointless arguments or fruitless conforming. You are truly your own man.

 

On another note, not sure what I am missing out on, I don't drink or party so.

 

LOL! I was thinking more about movies or other fun activities that you can do by yourself, rather than drugs or booze.

[ZA Dater]

I think you should OWN your freedom and focus on the positive aspects of it. You don't have any responsibilities or obligations to anyone; you can come and go as you please. No dealing with pointless arguments or fruitless conforming. You are truly your own man.

 

 

 

LOL! I was thinking more about movies or other fun activities that you can do by yourself, rather than drugs or booze.

 

Trust me I do plenty of those type of activities, I wont do movies on my own, that's a hugely depressing thing to do unless I make sure I see a late show which isn't full of couples.

 

 

Dinner on my own, not a fan of eating out on my own but I have done it from time to time.

[MGX]

Trust me I do plenty of those type of activities, I wont do movies on my own, that's a hugely depressing thing to do unless I make sure I see a late show which isn't full of couples.

 

That's your problem right there...Who cares about the couples? Screw that! If I wanted to see Captain America: Civil War, I'm going to go see it--end of story. I don't give a damn WHO is in attendance. Nothing is ruining my fun.

 

Dinner on my own, not a fan of eating out on my own but I have done it from time to time.

 

You have a craving for a particular restaurant, then you go there. Worry about YOU instead of worrying about what everyone thinks of you.

[ZA Dater]

In all probability this will be the last update in this thread.

 

Suffice to say thanks to everyone who contributed, for the most part all of you were right in various ways and I appreciate your candid commentary.

 

For the most part recent events have simply made me realise how right most of you are.

 

I think many of us would like to think we can do things, we'd like to think we are right in the way we approach things. I have come to learn I have been totally wrong and it goes back probably 20 years from my early teenage years, for whatever reason certain beliefs became instilled in me, many of which bred false hope and a sense I could one day find a girlfriend, someone I truly liked.

 

After all isn't that supposed to happen? The reality is I thought "well let me finish certain aspects on life and I can find girls later", the biggest regret I have is this, sitting here now I realise that isn't really true, you need to use your time, use your 20''s be it dating lots of girls or focussing on one great girlfriend, find friends, enjoy those carefree holidays. I wish I had done that instead of compartmentalising every aspect of life.

 

You are all right, where I am now is a product of my own misguided opinions and beliefs. I look around me people excelling at relationships, getting married, having kids, progressing and I look at myself, rooted to the ground like the statue of liberty, an irrelevance to most and a toy to some.

 

My advice is simple, try things, don't leave what can be done today to tomorrow, if you see that person you like pursue them, compliment them and just be you, live a well rounded life.

 

Looking around, those who thrive at dating have well balanced interesting lives, they walk around with confidence and are assertive, try be these things.

 

Sincerely thanks to all those who have contributed to my many question thread, you have all directly and indirectly given me some of the answers I seek and forced me to look at who I am and while I can be proud of some of my achievements I am deeply ashamed of my inability to actually get anywhere with anyone be it friends or more.

 

Lastly there are many people here with excellent advice and ideas, if you are in your 20's and battling I would encourage you to read it and read it again and then do it because you can salvage perhaps something great from it.

 

Perhaps the best thing I can tell you is, find someone to confide it, this forum is the only place I can confide in anyone.

[Beatles4]

I probably need to rephrase slightly, I am always being me just me is so different to anyone else seemingly in my mannerisms. I definitely go out being me but I am conscious of the fact I need to be more outgoing on dates, really be charming and try make people laugh, don't most guys do that sort of thing?

 

 

Childhood, well I was diagnosed with a learning disability and went to a school catering for that spent 4 years there and went to a normal school. Got my degree and did well academically thanks to just never giving up, the prizes for perseverance came my way often. Friends I have never really been able to make many of them, my small group of school friends are all married barring one. I have a sister we aren't close at all, she chose to walk down a path which took all of us with her and three years were spent fighting to get her to come clean. I am not saying more than that suffice to say it was an extremely tough time but we won in the end.

 

 

School life was quite lonely, I had respect but I was never popular, again my interests in politics and general knowledge just isolated me from the party, happy go lucky way HS seems to be for most people. A few girls liked me but I was too shy and no idea what I was supposed to do.

 

 

I wish I had more friends growing up, its one of the big regrets I have, likewise not harnessing that female attention I did get and making more of it.

 

I can relate to this so much, I think we are in the same boat, looking to jump ship!

(Looking to change things)

[KoolsM]

I am American guy lived in Ukraine for 4 years, Moscow for 1 year. I met and married a beautiful Ukrainian woman. Their man is #1, the most important thing in the world to them and they care for you in that way. I must get up at 5 am. My wife gets up at 4:30, cooks me breakfast, makes me a lunch (no store bought food could be as good as what she makes) then comes and gently wakes me with kisses and "good words". ..

They always look great! For one thing, there is a high percentage of beautiful women in Russia and Ukraine, it is incredible. But also they NEVER go out of the house unless they look beautiful and they always look beautiful for their man. My wife wants me to say how I like her hair, her clothes, her make-up. She wants to look good for me and it makes her feel good. Don't even think you can go through life without complimenting your woman and telling her how wonderful and beautiful she is many times a day. And ONLY your wife is "beautiful" this is a very powerful word and means "most beautiful of all".

They generally don't want to work outsode the house, even thought they are usually highly educated (my wife has a masters degree and speaks four languages) and they are NOT lazy. Their DREAM in life is to have a husband, children and cozy home to care for, even if it is a tiny 2 room "flat". They are not demanding. My wife has 8 pairs of shoes and thinks it is "excessive" she has asked if now I will "run away" because she has "so many" shoes. ) She grew up with a family of four in a flat the size of our living room now. You think she is happy? She thinks our small (by American standards) house is about all she can care for properly.

They ENJOY, crave, to look like and feel like women. They are very feminine. ALL of her night wear is attractive or sexy. We never spend a night apart. They want their man to look good, it is a reflection on them if you don't. She cares for my clothes, irons my jeans (!!!!) and checks me out before we go somewhere. If I don't look good, she doesn't look good.

Sexually, ah yes, you knew I would get to that. In general, they never refuse their man, EVER. It is the MAN's resposibility to be, well, responsible. I would never initiate ( I never "ask") sex when she is feeling ill. She would not refuse me, I promise, but she would think I am abusive and not considering her. As I said, this is NOT a one way street. They receive TRUE pleasure from giving pleasure to their man. She gives herself to me completely and expects to be pleased the same way.

They NEVER argue. They expect their man to consider their opinion and listen to them. BUT it is the man's job to make the decisions. If I do NOT make decisions and DO the things I need to, she will have no use for me. I MUST do what a man should do. It is my job to relieve her of responsibilities, not boss her around. If you think for one second a man can boss around a Russian/Ukrainianwoman...wow, have you got another thing coming! She EXPECTS to have everything she "needs" and things she "wants" if it is possible. She expects me to do anything I CAN do for her and the family and not complain, just like she does.

I think a Russian/Urkainian woman would rather cut off her arms and legs than cheat on a good man. They just WILL NOT! They won't do it. As fantastically beautiful as she is, as outgoing and friendly as she is, I am absolutely secure. Not only would she not cheat, she won't even do anything to make me suspicious. Oh...she demands the same from me….

[MGX]

I am American guy lived in Ukraine for 4 years, Moscow for 1 year. I met and married a beautiful Ukrainian woman. Their man is #1, the most important thing in the world to them and they care for you in that way. I must get up at 5 am. My wife gets up at 4:30, cooks me breakfast, makes me a lunch (no store bought food could be as good as what she makes) then comes and gently wakes me with kisses and "good words". ..

They always look great! For one thing, there is a high percentage of beautiful women in Russia and Ukraine, it is incredible. But also they NEVER go out of the house unless they look beautiful and they always look beautiful for their man. My wife wants me to say how I like her hair, her clothes, her make-up. She wants to look good for me and it makes her feel good. Don't even think you can go through life without complimenting your woman and telling her how wonderful and beautiful she is many times a day. And ONLY your wife is "beautiful" this is a very powerful word and means "most beautiful of all".

They generally don't want to work outsode the house, even thought they are usually highly educated (my wife has a masters degree and speaks four languages) and they are NOT lazy. Their DREAM in life is to have a husband, children and cozy home to care for, even if it is a tiny 2 room "flat". They are not demanding. My wife has 8 pairs of shoes and thinks it is "excessive" she has asked if now I will "run away" because she has "so many" shoes. ) She grew up with a family of four in a flat the size of our living room now. You think she is happy? She thinks our small (by American standards) house is about all she can care for properly.

They ENJOY, crave, to look like and feel like women. They are very feminine. ALL of her night wear is attractive or sexy. We never spend a night apart. They want their man to look good, it is a reflection on them if you don't. She cares for my clothes, irons my jeans (!!!!) and checks me out before we go somewhere. If I don't look good, she doesn't look good.

Sexually, ah yes, you knew I would get to that. In general, they never refuse their man, EVER. It is the MAN's resposibility to be, well, responsible. I would never initiate ( I never "ask") sex when she is feeling ill. She would not refuse me, I promise, but she would think I am abusive and not considering her. As I said, this is NOT a one way street. They receive TRUE pleasure from giving pleasure to their man. She gives herself to me completely and expects to be pleased the same way.

They NEVER argue. They expect their man to consider their opinion and listen to them. BUT it is the man's job to make the decisions. If I do NOT make decisions and DO the things I need to, she will have no use for me. I MUST do what a man should do. It is my job to relieve her of responsibilities, not boss her around. If you think for one second a man can boss around a Russian/Ukrainianwoman...wow, have you got another thing coming! She EXPECTS to have everything she "needs" and things she "wants" if it is possible. She expects me to do anything I CAN do for her and the family and not complain, just like she does.

I think a Russian/Urkainian woman would rather cut off her arms and legs than cheat on a good man. They just WILL NOT! They won't do it. As fantastically beautiful as she is, as outgoing and friendly as she is, I am absolutely secure. Not only would she not cheat, she won't even do anything to make me suspicious. Oh...she demands the same from me….

 

Sounds like a Russian Mail order bride.

[MGX]

In all probability this will be the last update in this thread.

 

Suffice to say thanks to everyone who contributed, for the most part all of you were right in various ways and I appreciate your candid commentary.

 

For the most part recent events have simply made me realise how right most of you are.

 

I think many of us would like to think we can do things, we'd like to think we are right in the way we approach things. I have come to learn I have been totally wrong and it goes back probably 20 years from my early teenage years, for whatever reason certain beliefs became instilled in me, many of which bred false hope and a sense I could one day find a girlfriend, someone I truly liked.

 

After all isn't that supposed to happen? The reality is I thought "well let me finish certain aspects on life and I can find girls later", the biggest regret I have is this, sitting here now I realise that isn't really true, you need to use your time, use your 20''s be it dating lots of girls or focussing on one great girlfriend, find friends, enjoy those carefree holidays. I wish I had done that instead of compartmentalising every aspect of life.

 

You are all right, where I am now is a product of my own misguided opinions and beliefs. I look around me people excelling at relationships, getting married, having kids, progressing and I look at myself, rooted to the ground like the statue of liberty, an irrelevance to most and a toy to some.

 

My advice is simple, try things, don't leave what can be done today to tomorrow, if you see that person you like pursue them, compliment them and just be you, live a well rounded life.

 

Looking around, those who thrive at dating have well balanced interesting lives, they walk around with confidence and are assertive, try be these things.

 

Sincerely thanks to all those who have contributed to my many question thread, you have all directly and indirectly given me some of the answers I seek and forced me to look at who I am and while I can be proud of some of my achievements I am deeply ashamed of my inability to actually get anywhere with anyone be it friends or more.

 

Lastly there are many people here with excellent advice and ideas, if you are in your 20's and battling I would encourage you to read it and read it again and then do it because you can salvage perhaps something great from it.

 

Perhaps the best thing I can tell you is, find someone to confide it, this forum is the only place I can confide in anyone.

 

So...what are you going to do differently now?