Particpant to Cheating, What constitutes responsibility?

[purplesorrow]

the other man & the other man certainly do bear some responsibility - but in my experience... MOSTLY all three parties (the BS; WS; the other person) bare some responsibility and did contribute to the situation they're in.

 

but if you tell that to someone who is going through infidelity - it won't go over well. to heal, it's actually better to put all the blame exclusively on the WS. people usually have a really hard time staying in the middle so if you tell a very hurt BS that the other person, indeed, is responsible to some extent - they won't let go and they'll focus on an entirely wrong person.

 

so it's actually better to think of the other person as someone who has 0% responsibility - it helps focusing on the real problems and the relationship you are a part of.

What part did you play in your husband's affair?

[RecentChange]

I have been cheated on. I didn't blame her - my dude is the one who had a commitment to me, not her. If it wasn't her, it probably would have been someone else.

 

And if recognize I DID contribute to the issues in our relationship that led to this.

 

And I cheated, with a married man. I guess I used the same logic - I wasn't her problem, he was. And if it wasn't me, it would be someone else.

 

On my D day - when my dude was all fired up - I pointed out, *I* was his problem, OM didn't create this. He wasn't the reason or the cause, nor the one to blame.

 

Now - I will openly describe myself as pretty callus. When someone started a "are you a good person" thread - I thought, nope, I wouldn't describe myself as a "good person".

 

That said - I wouldn't want to screw around with someone with kids - that's a whole new level. She married a cheater - kids have no choice in the matter, and I wouldn't want to be involved in causing drama for children.

[velvette]

the other man & the other man certainly do bear some responsibility - but in my experience... MOSTLY all three parties (the BS; WS; the other person) bare some responsibility and did contribute to the situation they're in.

 

but if you tell that to someone who is going through infidelity - it won't go over well. to heal, it's actually better to put all the blame exclusively on the WS. people usually have a really hard time staying in the middle so if you tell a very hurt BS that the other person, indeed, is responsible to some extent - they won't let go and they'll focus on an entirely wrong person.

 

so it's actually better to think of the other person as someone who has 0% responsibility - it helps focusing on the real problems and the relationship you are a part of.

 

 

You obviously have no experience with the bunny boiling, stalking, harassing, will do anything to get what she wants OW.

 

 

Not surprising, since they aren't the type to admit they need or seek help and or show up on forums like this. Nevertheless, there are tons of them out there.

 

 

They are usually every bit as broken as the WS and playing all that dysfunction out all over their BS('s). Usually, they and the WS are the problem in whatever is wrong with their marriages. The BS's fault if there is one is choosing to marry them or not walking away once they showed how F'ed up they are.

 

 

They are not only hurting the BS's involved, but also the WS and themselves.

 

 

Its impossible to focus on the marriage until you get them out of the picture. If you ignore their blame, you wont realize you need to get them out of the pic.

 

 

For all the things other than the A, that my H OW did to me, I blame her more for the things she did to my H. Like tell him he didn't need counseling when clearly he did. Or, telling him I had a drinking problem or was cheating on him, things she made up out of a tidbit of info she got from others and then turned into a whole cloth of lies.

 

 

No question, she is responsible for a lot of hurt in my life over and above the sleazy choice to have an affair with my H because she needed a wealthy husband to make up for what she would need to get out of her M.

[Sub]

I was referring specifically to post #116.... i really legality WAS the point of that post, no?

 

It was. I was referring to the original analogy, that I don't think was made to make an A seem illegal. It was more about the roles people play in something that negatively effects an unknowing third party.

[velvette]

 

 

few people get married thinking they'll cheat. in the beginning - most do believe their vows but... things change. people change. their view on their marriage changes. sounds odd - but being an adulterer doesn't necessarily mean you don't value marriage - it just means you don't value THAT marriage with THAT person for this or that reason.

 

I don't agree. Being an adulterer just means you have no integrity and if you valued marriage at all, you only value it when its convenient to you.

 

 

Marriage is a legal contract, over and above falling in love with someone. Even if you marry for other reasons its a legal contract.

 

 

When people break other contracts, we usually call them sleazy or at worst criminals. No one thinks highly of people who break legal contracts without going a legal route for recourse to whatever they believe the other party has done wrongly.

 

 

The contract of marriage is together for better or worse. And, unlike most other contracts in Western civilization theres a get out of jail card that allows you to break the contract for almost any reason. So its not really a hard contract to keep. Don't like it? You can get out for any reason.

 

 

People who cheat don't value the legal contract, much less the spiritual or emotional contract. They also don't value their own honor and integrity.

Unless of course, it is convenient for them. That's really the bottom line.

[minimariah]

What part did you play in your husband's affair?

 

through contributing to our marital problems which contributed & lead to his affair - pretty much. that was definitely my little piece of responsibility. at the end though... my xH is EXCLUSIVELY to blame for his affair; my point was to show how far we can go when it comes to responsibility.

 

one example --- married couple. a man doesn't want to have sex with his wife anymore; she tries to communicate and comes up with different solutions which are all rejected by her husband. she tries to work on the marriage but the husband doesn't take her seriously and just continues to live in his own world. she meets her OM & he aggressively pursues her and they have an affair.

 

now... we can put the responsibility on the OM for pursuing the WS - why can't we put the responsibility on the BS for neglect?

 

You obviously have no experience with the bunny boiling, stalking, harassing, will do anything to get what she wants OW.

 

but harrassing & stalking OWs/BSs aren't really the norm - they aren't the majority; and when discussing adultery... we mostly focus on the average. it's pretty hard to cover ALL stories. the average OW won't let go of the affair relationship easily but she won't insult & harrass the BS either - for THAT... it takes someone who is already on the edge.

 

Its impossible to focus on the marriage until you get them out of the picture.

 

i agree - but getting them out of the picture is not something YOU have control over, no? that's something your WS needs to do and you can be his support but it's not like you can control who he does or doesn't meet. same, you cannot "ban" the OW from contacting your WS and reaching out.

 

If you ignore their blame, you wont realize you need to get them out of the pic.

 

i disagree - i think it's pretty clear to every BS that the affairs need to stop + that all contact with the other person needs to disappear. being angry and holding the other person accountable is understandable and even healthy - but it quickly turns into making the other person a villain while turning the WS into that other person's victim. in the end, you have a BS who forgave the WS but holds a ton of resentment and anger towards the other person - and that's a very dangerous territory.

[minimariah]

Unless of course, it is convenient for them.

 

not sure what you mean by convenient... i think we all respect our vows and marriage when it's convenient and we WANT to. i've seen a lot of adulterers who respect their long marriages & vows with someone else (AP or someone new, doesn't matter) - through thick and thin. and at times, it certainly wasn't convenient to do so.

[purplesorrow]

through contributing to our marital problems which contributed & lead to his affair - pretty much. that was definitely my little piece of responsibility. at the end though... my xH is EXCLUSIVELY to blame for his affair; my point was to show how far we can go when it comes to responsibility.

 

one example --- married couple. a man doesn't want to have sex with his wife anymore; she tries to communicate and comes up with different solutions which are all rejected by her husband. she tries to work on the marriage but the husband doesn't take her seriously and just continues to live in his own world. she meets her OM & he aggressively pursues her and they have an affair.

 

now... we can put the responsibility on the OM for pursuing the WS - why can't we put the responsibility on the BS for neglect?

 

 

 

but harrassing & stalking OWs/BSs aren't really the norm - they aren't the majority; and when discussing adultery... we mostly focus on the average. it's pretty hard to cover ALL stories. the average OW won't let go of the affair relationship easily but she won't insult & harrass the BS either - for THAT... it takes someone who is already on the edge.

 

 

 

i agree - but getting them out of the picture is not something YOU have control over, no? that's something your WS needs to do and you can be his support but it's not like you can control who he does or doesn't meet. same, you cannot "ban" the OW from contacting your WS and reaching out.

 

 

 

i disagree - i think it's pretty clear to every BS that the affairs need to stop + that all contact with the other person needs to disappear. being angry and holding the other person accountable is understandable and even healthy - but it quickly turns into making the other person a villain while turning the WS into that other person's victim. in the end, you have a BS who forgave the WS but holds a ton of resentment and anger towards the other person - and that's a very dangerous territory.

 

This isn't everyone's experience and it wasn't mine. Thanks for sharing.

[velvette]

 

but harrassing & stalking OWs/BSs aren't really the norm - they aren't the majority; and when discussing adultery... we mostly focus on the average. it's pretty hard to cover ALL stories. the average OW won't let go of the affair relationship easily but she won't insult & harrass the BS either - for THAT... it takes someone who is already on the edge.

 

 

I don't think that's really true. We hear about them here frequently from BS. They aren't represented as often in the OW forum, because like I said they aren't the sort of people to recognize what they are doing is aberrant and seek help.

 

 

Most of the OW I know of in real life, not just my H, are crackpots on the edge or actually bunny boiling or on the verge of it. They love nothing better than engaging with and provoking the BS, especially when they can no longer get the attention of the WS.

[velvette]

 

 

 

 

 

i agree - but getting them out of the picture is not something YOU have control over, no? that's something your WS needs to do and you can be his support but it's not like you can control who he does or doesn't meet. same, you cannot "ban" the OW from contacting your WS and reaching out.

 

 

 

i disagree - i think it's pretty clear to every BS that the affairs need to stop + that all contact with the other person needs to disappear. being angry and holding the other person accountable is understandable and even healthy - but it quickly turns into making the other person a villain while turning the WS into that other person's victim. in the end, you have a BS who forgave the WS but holds a ton of resentment and anger towards the other person - and that's a very dangerous territory.

 

 

The affair had stopped. My H had made clear to her he wanted nothing more to do with her and was NC.

 

 

When he wouldn't talk to her, she started harassing me. She wasn't reaching out to him except I suppose indirectly.

 

 

And, I absolutely did control it at least temporarily, by making it very unpleasant for her to contact me and giving her consequences she didn't like when she did.

 

 

I hold her accountable for what she's accountable for. Has nothing to do with what I hold my H accountable for.

[minimariah]

We hear about them here frequently from BS.

 

that's true but i don't think we can rely on LoveShack - to be honest. a very small group of people writes here... for example, if i was to make conclusions from LS - i would say that married folks almost NEVER leave for their AP; so far, life has proven me that the reality is quite different.

 

i honestly, in real life, don't know many harrassing nutjobs OWs. sure, there is definitely some cyber stalking going on... posting cryptic messages to forums and social networks, reaching out to the WS... but i know very few of them who were harrassing and directly abusing the BS through calls or texting or confrontations... we all judge from our own experiences.

 

it's hard to cover all possible stories.

[jen1447]

Civil court cases have often held that the foundation of infidelity granted awards for the social stigma and financial impact it had on the Betrayed spouse. Both the Wayward and the offending partner have had tort cases garnered against them. Puryear vs Devin is an example of the "mistress" being held accountable. So the courts have spoken.

 

while it may be more common and oddly acceptable to forgive affairs and the partners, the courts do have venues to seek damages under civil law.

 

the topic was "responsibility on the cheater or the accomplice", I beleive my post addressed the matter from a civil level.

 

This was largely mistaken tho too, or exaggerated. The civil torts we're talking about are criminal conversation and alienation of affections (as applied to a spouse), both largely non-existent now, remaining only in 7 states and most prominently in NC as far as I can tell. (Puryear and Shackelford most notably.) Everywhere else the torts simply don't exist. (And somewhat disturbingly, the basis of those laws is a property claim.)

[Rejected Rosebud]

Many of us don't believe in getting romantically involved with married people. I think we feel that we'd be doing harm if we did so. It's a boundary and an ethical stance for me personally. I won't put myself in the position.

 

If I did succumb to temptation and get involved with a married man, I would DEFINITELY feel that I'd done something wrong.

 

I believe in actively respecting the relationships that other people have and to not destroy them. I actually think that most people do. I am surprised by all the people I'm hearing from on this thread that think it's some kind of sportive competition to get other peoples' wives or husbands to have sex.

 

OR that the "BS" could possibly in ANY way be responsible for that outcome. Of course they can be hugely responsible for the failing of their own marriage. What their spouse chooses to do about it, though, is 100% on them. I mean if the BS was bad with money so the WS robbed a bank, would that also be the fault of the bs??

[ChickiePops]

Wrong thread

[wmacbride]

 

but harrassing & stalking OWs/BSs aren't really the norm - they aren't the majority; and when discussing adultery... we mostly focus on the average. it's pretty hard to cover ALL stories. the average OW won't let go of the affair relationship easily but she won't insult & harrass the BS either - for THAT... it takes someone who is already on the edge.

 

 

I don't think that's really true. We hear about them here frequently from BS. They aren't represented as often in the OW forum, because like I said they aren't the sort of people to recognize what they are doing is aberrant and seek help.

 

 

Most of the OW I know of in real life, not just my H, are crackpots on the edge or actually bunny boiling or on the verge of it. They love nothing better than engaging with and provoking the BS, especially when they can no longer get the attention of the WS.

 

I had one like that. While I can't speak as to whether the majority of ow or om are like that, if you find yourself dealing with one, it can really make your life frustrating.

 

The continued harassment and unwanted contact to some pretty harsh measures to resolve. Part of me still feels bad for her, as she is a disordered person and it can't be a happy life to be in her shoes. mind you, if asked I expected she'd say otherwise, and would see nothing wrong with what she had done.

Edited April 22, 2016 by wmacbride

[elaine567]

 

I had one like that. While I can't speak as to whether the majority of ow or om are like that, if you find yourself dealing with one, it can really make your life frustrating.

 

The continued harassment and unwanted contact to some pretty harsh measures to resolve. Part of me still feels bad for her, as she is a disordered person and it can't be a happy life to be in her shoes. mind you, if asked I expected she'd say otherwise.

 

Yes the OW may be a crackpot, but how much was she primed and egged on to believe in, her own importance, and her entitlement to berate and harass the awful woman who was making "her" MM so miserable or refusing to let him go...

[Sub]

but harrassing & stalking OWs/BSs aren't really the norm - they aren't the majority; and when discussing adultery... we mostly focus on the average. it's pretty hard to cover ALL stories. the average OW won't let go of the affair relationship easily but she won't insult & harrass the BS either - for THAT... it takes someone who is already on the edge.

.

 

I agree. But just as the average OW/OM isn't unhinged, the average M affected by an A doesn't include neglect to the point in your example. There are a lot of grey areas, and I think it takes a little bit of this, a little bit of that, a little more of this, a little more of that....and everything goes South. Literally and figuratively.

 

To use my own experience: the OM was/is a regular guy. Not crazy by any stretch. He and my W had been work friends. A conversation occurs about their R's. He starts off giving her advice about how to work it out. A sympathetic ear. A few weeks later, they're talking...he kisses her. She gets the rush. The A begins over time, and he's periodically questioning my parenting (which she shuts him down for), he asks her if he can come over to the house while I'm away (which she's reluctant about and never happens)....things like that. Little insinuations. Maybe I'm having my own A? (Yeah, no buddy). But it was all part of the recipe. So, while my W and I were 100% responsible for the state of our M up until the A started, there was then a third person involved who I had no idea was even present. An extra set of ears for her, an extra voice with their own opinions, but one that's benefitting from the R in a way a regular friend wouldn't. I don't think the majority of OW/OM are just single people dating as if they're in any other R. They have input and should be responsible for that input.

[velvette]

Yes the OW may be a crackpot, but how much was she primed and egged on to believe in, her own importance, and her entitlement to berate and harass the awful woman who was making "her" MM so miserable or refusing to let him go...

 

 

I've known her for 20 years or so. She's always had a distorted view of her own importance and displayed a sense of entitlement about most everything.

 

 

I assume its a FOO issue.

Edited April 22, 2016 by velvette

[Liam1]

Well, I also believe that it is illegal in Mississippi law to have a second illegitimate child (one is apparently ok) and it is illegal to feed any butter substitute not prescribed by a doctor in any state institution in Wisconsin....

 

just sayin'. There are some wacky laws out there.

 

While I certainly do not condone adultery and i think it is wrong, it should not be illegal, that's just crazy.

 

edited to add: you should not be able to use the court and tax payer money to punish your spouse over a personal matter.

 

Most of the USA states that still list it as a crime have not prosecuted anyone in many many years.

 

And, exactly for the reason you stated. Why waste taxpayer money on personal issues.

 

That's what divorce court is for. The two can duke it out in a contested divorce.

 

Also a handful of states still have so called "bluelaws" which make having oral sex with a spouse a crime. No one pays attention, though.

Edited April 22, 2016 by Liam1

[Liam1]

I don't know you. Can I hit you with my car? I mean..I don't know you so why should I care if I leave you bloody and mangled and in a ton of pain?

 

Maliciously hitting someone with a car known as assault and is a crime.

 

And, again, the person who you are hitting with your car is not CONSENTING to be hit.

 

In an affair, there are two CONSENTING adults.

[mellywell]

Maliciously hitting someone with a car known as assault and is a crime.

 

And, again, the person who you are hitting with your car is not CONSENTING to be hit.

 

In an affair, there are two CONSENTING adults.

 

I am not sure if it is intentional, but this misses the point entirely. The point of the thread is that it is the BS being hit by the car. Yes, the WS is driving it, but the OW/OM have no problem sitting in the passenger seat.

[Sub]

Maliciously hitting someone with a car known as assault and is a crime.

 

And, again, the person who you are hitting with your car is not CONSENTING to be hit.

 

In an affair, there are two CONSENTING adults.

 

I think you misunderstood. The non-consenting adult in the scenario - the BS - is the one getting hit. Or robbed.

[wmacbride]

Yes the OW may be a crackpot, but how much was she primed and egged on to believe in, her own importance, and her entitlement to berate and harass the awful woman who was making "her" MM so miserable or refusing to let him go...

 

 

Honestly, the time they had known each other, form the first IM until D-day was less than six weeks, and I think the actual "A" was less than a month.

 

After having seen messages between them, it was, oddly enough, the ow who was running me down.

 

She was/is ( I guess) a serial ow, who went form mm to mm. In our case, I chose not to let me blow up my life.

 

She had something in her personality that's way off. This was a person who sent someone who was deployed on a comabt mission an "anonymous" message that his bs is at home cheating on him, using a WAN that she knew would stamp it with her ID and the time/date.

[Oldman66]

My first marriage blew up when 1st wife cheated. After marriage was over I was the OM many times. I never chased married women but I didn't turn them down if they came after me. I now regret what I did NOT because of any harm to the woman but because sometimes kids were involved, and the poor men that I screwed over as I was screwed over. I did NOT consider it cheating because I was not cheating they were, what I was after was the conflict with the Betrayed Spouses. I wanted to get into fights because I had not allowed myself to harm the OM in my case. (37 years later I still think about it!) I was a Viet Nam vet and had gone to all black schools when there was no political correctness at all. My PTSD started in summer school going into 7th grade. Nam just gave me additional skills. Since I have come back from Nam I have never allowed myself to lose my temper, I have and can get angry but NEVER totally lose it. I figured if they came after me it was self defense and I wouldn't go to jail. Nobody ever rose to the bait. I did have a couple of times when they came over and confronted me but even when the wife was at my apt and I told them that she did not want to leave they wouldn't fight. I am over that point of my life by many years but I still regret hurting those men (emotionally) They did nothing to me, my anger was misdirected. SO as far as I was concerned at the time I was NOT cheating they were. If they wanted to use me as their weapon so be it. Thankfully I think I have grown up since then. No longer do those things as I no longer want to hurt random people.

[Rejected Rosebud]

Gosh! I find the "physical department" paramount? Wherever did I claim that - or is that simply projection, or an attempt to discredit my opinion?

 

You chose to use a sport team tryout as an analogy - including how Gina (or whatever her name is) didn't keep up in the gym over the summer and thus lost her skillz ...

 

You must have chosen that very physical analogy for a reason.

 

"After I pass the age of 30 or so" - you clearly have no idea how old I am, if you think 30 is in my future. You also don't know me at all if you think 23 was my prime.

 

I don't know anything about you at all, that's for sure! I don't think I've ever read any posts by you. I just think you sounded like a teenager or very young 20's to liken a longterm, committed relationship to annual rugby team tryouts! Where every spot is open every year and free for the taking by the most able competitor.

 

I was thinking that as you matured you might develop a different view of how people choose to forge meaningful and lasting relationships ... rather than seeing them as a combo between competitive sports where the physically most able will prevail, and a form of free market economy! :( That just makes me feel super sad, honestly. I mean what is the point of marriage if there is no room for love, honor, trust, honesty, integrity, support, etc.?

 

Sorry, seriously I just garnered my point of view from that single post. I sincerely hope that you continue to earn your place on your husband's rugby team every year when the spots are open for new fresh players!