Particpant to Cheating, What constitutes responsibility?

[sweet_pea]

Responsibility for the affair and responsibility for upholding the vows/commitment are two separate issues.

 

Also, I think this needs repeating for the folks in the back.

[cocorico]

If you participate in a situation where other people are hurt then you are responsible in part for that hurt.

 

An analogous situation: hockey trials. The team has 11 players, plus maybe a reserve. 20 kids show up for the trials. I've never been much into sport, but I've decided to give it a go, and it turns out I'm really nippy on the left wing,many I get given a place in the team. Tina, who played left wing last hockey season, is devastated not to make the team.

 

Who is responsible for Tina's hurt? Me, for going along to trials rather than backing off, because Tina was left wing last year and so it's "her" spot in the team? The coach, for choosing me rather than Tina, given that I'm a noob while Tina lives for hockey? Tina, for spending all summer on the beach instead of the athletics track, getting out of condition and performing badly in the trials?

 

Should I feel remorse, withdraw from the team, because Tina's feelings got hurt when coach chose me instead of her for left wing? Should I regard Tina as collateral damage - 20 kids for 11/12 places was always going to leave someone on the sidelines? Should I express sympathy to Tina while hanging on to my place?

 

If, as the quoted post claims, I am responsible for Tina's hurt because I chose to participate in trials, then we are all constantly responsible for the hurts of others, whether we know it or not. You got the last chocolate donut? It's your fault the kid further back in the queue is crying. You earned a promotion at work? It's your fault Bob's wife is going to walk out on him for being such a loser to get bypassed again. You won the lottery? It's your fault Meg from Blackpool will be out on the streets tomorrow...

 

We live in a capitalist world order. We constantly compete for scarce resources. Some people get, others don't. I find it bizarre that people that embrace capitalism and its basic philosophy feel so outraged when that same principle is applied in personal relationships. Someone gets out competed in the workplace? That's life. In a personal relationship? You horrible horrible person, you! Go sit on the naughty step!

[wmacbride]

An analogous situation: hockey trials. The team has 11 players, plus maybe a reserve. 20 kids show up for the trials. I've never been much into sport, but I've decided to give it a go, and it turns out I'm really nippy on the left wing,many I get given a place in the team. Tina, who played left wing last hockey season, is devastated not to make the team.

 

Who is responsible for Tina's hurt? Me, for going along to trials rather than backing off, because Tina was left wing last year and so it's "her" spot in the team? The coach, for choosing me rather than Tina, given that I'm a noob while Tina lives for hockey? Tina, for spending all summer on the beach instead of the athletics track, getting out of condition and performing badly in the trials?

 

Should I feel remorse, withdraw from the team, because Tina's feelings got hurt when coach chose me instead of her for left wing? Should I regard Tina as collateral damage - 20 kids for 11/12 places was always going to leave someone on the sidelines? Should I express sympathy to Tina while hanging on to my place?

 

If, as the quoted post claims, I am responsible for Tina's hurt because I chose to participate in trials, then we are all constantly responsible for the hurts of others, whether we know it or not. You got the last chocolate donut? It's your fault the kid further back in the queue is crying. You earned a promotion at work? It's your fault Bob's wife is going to walk out on him for being such a loser to get bypassed again. You won the lottery? It's your fault Meg from Blackpool will be out on the streets tomorrow...

 

We live in a capitalist world order. We constantly compete for scarce resources. Some people get, others don't. I find it bizarre that people that embrace capitalism and its basic philosophy feel so outraged when that same principle is applied in personal relationships. Someone gets out competed in the workplace? That's life. In a personal relationship? You horrible horrible person, you! Go sit on the naughty step!

 

That has got to be one of the least apt analogies I have ever heard.

 

"Someone who tries out for a hockey team doesn't get picked, and finds it hurtful. That's not the fault of the person who was picked, so therefore, let's extrapolate from that to being the ow or om".

 

If one views relationships as situations where you have to constantly compete with other women actually speaks to the shallowness with which one views their marriage and the depth of the affections of their spouse.

 

 

It's one thing for a wife to want to look good for her husband, to treat him well, and to be as good a rleationship partner for him as she can possibly be because she loves and wants him to be as happy as he can be. That is done with love and because she knows he loves her.

 

It's quite another to feel like one is continually being tested and as if they are on trial basis, and if they slip up, hubby may very well look elsewhere. That's not love, it's desperation, incredibly unhealthy and speaks more to a wife not feeling loved by her H at all. It also speaks to her H not caring much for her , as he is always looking for an upgrade.

 

As for the concept of an ow or om having zero culpability in an A, I don't get why this is so difficult for some to understand, and it seems there is some willful blindness going on.

 

I'll break it down to a very simple equation.

 

A man, whatever the circumstances may be , has decided to engage in an affair. Whetter he went looking for it or it just "sort of happened" is irrelevant. He and the ow get involved with one another.

 

If the declined to enter the A, that particular affair would never have happened. She was not forced, she had other choices, she could have said "no". but she chose not to do so.

 

Now, it could be very true that the mm could have simply found someone else- but he didn't. He found that particular woman, and but for her actions, that particular affair would never have happened. He could not have had that particular affair on his own.

 

Both are equally responsible for the affair happening. The fallout that occurs because of the affair is on them, and if both parties had not engaged in that particular affair, that particular affair would not have been hurtful to anyone.

 

I find it really odd that people who place so little value on M get married in the first place. Why bother?

[Toodaloo]

My personal opinion is that I "do unto others as I would have done to myself".

 

Ergo even if I am single, as soon as I find out a potential beau has a partner I walk away. It really is that simple.

 

For me personally its also a major turn off. I just do not fancy men who are attached to others regardless of other traits.

 

Perhaps I am selfish in that I do not want to share and am not prepared to bring drama and strife into my life with out just cause.

 

I am not perfect. When very young I slept with a married man and it broke my heart to say good bye. C'est la vie though. I should have got in there before he walked down the isle. My fault.

 

Cocorico - I admire your openness, I really do. You are very brave to stand up and speak out. But you seem to be making a lot of excuses for what happened. I also get the feeling that under the bravado you are hurting a lot more than you would care to admit. Just an observation... Good luck. Will have my fingers crossed that you find yourself in a happier, more fulfilling situation.

[velvette]

An analogous situation: hockey trials. The team has 11 players, plus maybe a reserve. 20 kids show up for the trials. I've never been much into sport, but I've decided to give it a go, and it turns out I'm really nippy on the left wing,many I get given a place in the team. Tina, who played left wing last hockey season, is devastated not to make the team.

 

Who is responsible for Tina's hurt? Me, for going along to trials rather than backing off, because Tina was left wing last year and so it's "her" spot in the team? The coach, for choosing me rather than Tina, given that I'm a noob while Tina lives for hockey? Tina, for spending all summer on the beach instead of the athletics track, getting out of condition and performing badly in the trials?

 

Should I feel remorse, withdraw from the team, because Tina's feelings got hurt when coach chose me instead of her for left wing? Should I regard Tina as collateral damage - 20 kids for 11/12 places was always going to leave someone on the sidelines? Should I express sympathy to Tina while hanging on to my place?

 

If, as the quoted post claims, I am responsible for Tina's hurt because I chose to participate in trials, then we are all constantly responsible for the hurts of others, whether we know it or not. You got the last chocolate donut? It's your fault the kid further back in the queue is crying. You earned a promotion at work? It's your fault Bob's wife is going to walk out on him for being such a loser to get bypassed again. You won the lottery? It's your fault Meg from Blackpool will be out on the streets tomorrow...

 

We live in a capitalist world order. We constantly compete for scarce resources. Some people get, others don't. I find it bizarre that people that embrace capitalism and its basic philosophy feel so outraged when that same principle is applied in personal relationships. Someone gets out competed in the workplace? That's life. In a personal relationship? You horrible horrible person, you! Go sit on the naughty step!

 

 

I suppose if you view relationships as competitive sport (which in fact many OW/OM do) this all makes sense to you.

 

 

There's a world of difference in intentionally engaging in an A where you know that more than likely one or more people will be hurt because of your actions and taking the last donut that someone else might want.

 

 

Really? You're comparing and adults pain over betrayal to a child not getting the flavor of donut they want? How silly.

 

 

All the interactions you described are governed by expected standards of conduct that most people live by. First in line, gets first choice, etc.

[ASG]

 

I find it really odd that people who place so little value on M get married in the first place. Why bother?

 

You misunderstand. I do value marriage. Or rather, I value commitment. Whether a paper has been signed or not is irrelevant.

 

But I think the full fault of the cheating is on the cheating partner. 100%. If my boyfriend cheats on me, that's HIS fault. Not whoever girl he cheated with. HE was the one who should have kept it in his pants.

 

This might be going off on a tangent, but I'm always annoyed when I see these memes on FB, that say something along the lines of "why you should date me" and one of the reasons is "I'm too ugly to cheat on you".

 

I don't want someone who is not cheating on me because he has no options!!! WTF?!?! I want someone who HAS options and chooses, every time, to not cheat.

 

I find this the same thing with the topic at hand. Sure, the affair partner could say no. And if every single person in the world said no, the cheating partner would not be able to cheat. But honestly, how is that any good??? Someone who isn't cheating on you because they CAN'T isn't really the person I'm looking for....

[kztar]

The bolded is a question you will have to answer for yourself.

 

 

I don't agree with you that most people don't care about hurting others even if they don't know them. That's not my experience. And, fortunately selfish self centered people are pretty obvious after you spend a few minutes with them.

 

 

Of course, that doesn't work with people who are willing to sleep with other peoples spouses, because they know what they are doing is wrong, so they are slinking around in the shadows to hide what they are doing.

 

Honestly I just don't care. It's not my relationship so it's not my job to decide how to proceed with my actions based on THAT relationship. Now if it's my relationship, that's a different story. The person in the relationship needs to take responsibility for their own actions. If im single and available that's me, that doesn't make others single and available. It's a choice they make.

[kztar]

You misunderstand. I do value marriage. Or rather, I value commitment. Whether a paper has been signed or not is irrelevant.

 

But I think the full fault of the cheating is on the cheating partner. 100%. If my boyfriend cheats on me, that's HIS fault. Not whoever girl he cheated with. HE was the one who should have kept it in his pants.

 

This might be going off on a tangent, but I'm always annoyed when I see these memes on FB, that say something along the lines of "why you should date me" and one of the reasons is "I'm too ugly to cheat on you".

 

I don't want someone who is not cheating on me because he has no options!!! WTF?!?! I want someone who HAS options and chooses, every time, to not cheat.

 

I find this the same thing with the topic at hand. Sure, the affair partner could say no. And if every single person in the world said no, the cheating partner would not be able to cheat. But honestly, how is that any good??? Someone who isn't cheating on you because they CAN'T isn't really the person I'm looking for....

 

Agree, if my boyfriend were to cheat on me I wouldn't go start some drama with the girl. She has nothing to do with HIS actions. HE made that choice. HE could have thought about the relationship HE was in. The girl, she engaged in behavior with him but she was not in a relationship with us so her behavior is technically irrelevant.

 

I remember one time about 2 years ago I started sort of screwing around with my college ex (He was 27 at the time) while he was dating this other girl that was WAY older than him and 10 years older than me. I was 24 and this girl was 34 (A GROWN mature woman) compared to me. Apparently she found out we were screwing around so she called me to tell me she was his gf, that he told her I was his college sweetheart but that was it, and all this other nonsense. (I actually didn't know he had a gf, I thought he had a few LOL) My response to her was well "you're telling me this because?....1)I don't care 2)He's no longer my problem and 3)Don't contact me anymore because whatever issues you have with him, are with him not with me.

 

This girl became so furious when she realized I didn't care.

 

This stupid girl went crazy sending me pictures through text of them waking up together and doing things. I couldn't help but laugh because him waking up next to her, or a monkey meant nothing to me. I contacted him and told him to control that chick. He took care of the issue and finally never heard from this stupid girl again.

 

 

I am with you too. I value marriage and commitment 150%. But others cheating on their partners. Not MY issue. Me cheating on MY partner, my problem, my issue.

[Liam1]

We live in a capitalist world order. We constantly compete for scarce resources. Some people get, others don't. I find it bizarre that people that embrace capitalism and its basic philosophy feel so outraged when that same principle is applied in personal relationships. Someone gets out competed in the workplace? That's life. In a personal relationship? You horrible horrible person, you! Go sit on the naughty step!

 

I could not agree more, Cocorrico.

 

People are not slaves. Married or otherwise. The comparisons to rape and killing other people really don't apply. It's comparing apples to oranges.

 

For one, rape and murder are illegal. Secondly: The person who is raped or murdered is not consenting to the action. It is forced.

 

In an affair, both people are consenting adults. If not, then it is rape and it's a crime.

 

Also, people are talking about how it's wrong to hurt ANYONE, yet they are hurting people here with words, by passing judgment without knowing the entire story.

 

Perhaps the person who is seeking solace in an affair is justified in doing so.

 

For example even killing is condoned, if it is done in self defense. Sometimes an affair is a self defense survival mechanism.

 

There are psychologists who have stated publicly that sometimes an affair is justified. It depends on what is going on in the marriage.

 

It's amazing to me how many BS's claim that they are perfect spouses.

 

Really, If a BS is the perfect spouse and their unfaithful spouse a total irresponsible no good lout why in Heavens name would they want to stay married to them. Obviously thinking that way is an indication that one no longer respects or loves their spouse.

 

Personally, If my wife had a temporary sexual fling affair, it would not really bother me. So what. I am confident enough to understand that she may occasionally lust after someone, but can still love me and prefer to spend the rest of her life with me.

 

Now, if she came home and told me she fell in love with the affair partner, that would be a deal breaker. But just sex. No.

 

Lust and love are not the same thing. If she were hiding money or using shared marital assets to fund the affair, that might bother me. But not all people share all their assets.

 

Also, if she failed to keep the affair secret, and all our friends and family knew, that would bother me. But just a sexual fling. No.

 

 

An analogous situation: hockey trials. The team has 11 players, plus maybe a reserve. 20 kids show up for the trials. I've never been much into sport, but I've decided to give it a go, and it turns out I'm really nippy on the left wing,many I get given a place in the team. Tina, who played left wing last hockey season, is devastated not to make the team.

 

Who is responsible for Tina's hurt? Me, for going along to trials rather than backing off, because Tina was left wing last year and so it's "her" spot in the team? The coach, for choosing me rather than Tina, given that I'm a noob while Tina lives for hockey? Tina, for spending all summer on the beach instead of the athletics track, getting out of condition and performing badly in the trials?

 

Should I feel remorse, withdraw from the team, because Tina's feelings got hurt when coach chose me instead of her for left wing? Should I regard Tina as collateral damage - 20 kids for 11/12 places was always going to leave someone on the sidelines? Should I express sympathy to Tina while hanging on to my place?

 

If, as the quoted post claims, I am responsible for Tina's hurt because I chose to participate in trials, then we are all constantly responsible for the hurts of others, whether we know it or not. You got the last chocolate donut? It's your fault the kid further back in the queue is crying. You earned a promotion at work? It's your fault Bob's wife is going to walk out on him for being such a loser to get bypassed again. You won the lottery? It's your fault Meg from Blackpool will be out on the streets tomorrow...

 

We live in a capitalist world order. We constantly compete for scarce resources. Some people get, others don't. I find it bizarre that people that embrace capitalism and its basic philosophy feel so outraged when that same principle is applied in personal relationships. Someone gets out competed in the workplace? That's life. In a personal relationship? You horrible horrible person, you! Go sit on the naughty step!

[ChickiePops]

You misunderstand. I do value marriage. Or rather, I value commitment. Whether a paper has been signed or not is irrelevant.

 

But I think the full fault of the cheating is on the cheating partner. 100%. If my boyfriend cheats on me, that's HIS fault. Not whoever girl he cheated with. HE was the one who should have kept it in his pants.

 

This might be going off on a tangent, but I'm always annoyed when I see these memes on FB, that say something along the lines of "why you should date me" and one of the reasons is "I'm too ugly to cheat on you".

 

I don't want someone who is not cheating on me because he has no options!!! WTF?!?! I want someone who HAS options and chooses, every time, to not cheat.

 

I find this the same thing with the topic at hand. Sure, the affair partner could say no. And if every single person in the world said no, the cheating partner would not be able to cheat. But honestly, how is that any good??? Someone who isn't cheating on you because they CAN'T isn't really the person I'm looking for....

 

So if your boyfriend was sleeping with your best friend, you'd dump him and remain best friends with her?

 

This makes no sense at all. The affair partner, unless they are fully lied to and told that the person is single, knows the potential pain and devastation that their actions will cause another person. And any children who are involved. But their own selfish desires and competitive nature get in the way and they open their hearts and legs to someone who is a known liar and cheater. Who they have no right to and who they have no reason to trust.

 

If another car cuts me off and I ram my own car into it with only the intention of injuring the driver, there's no guarantee that I won't also hurt the other passengers in the car, along with any passengers in my own car. Now, the driver is the one who cut me off, and he's the one I'm aiming for, but there is a ton of risk for collateral damage that I'm taking anyway just to get what I want. If I kill the passenger, am I innocent because I was only aiming for the driver because the driver did something to me first?

 

Why is causing physical pain so different from causing emotional pain?

[wmacbride]

You misunderstand. I do value marriage. Or rather, I value commitment. Whether a paper has been signed or not is irrelevant.

 

But I think the full fault of the cheating is on the cheating partner. 100%. If my boyfriend cheats on me, that's HIS fault. Not whoever girl he cheated with. HE was the one who should have kept it in his pants.

 

This might be going off on a tangent, but I'm always annoyed when I see these memes on FB, that say something along the lines of "why you should date me" and one of the reasons is "I'm too ugly to cheat on you".

 

I don't want someone who is not cheating on me because he has no options!!! WTF?!?! I want someone who HAS options and chooses, every time, to not cheat.

 

I find this the same thing with the topic at hand. Sure, the affair partner could say no. And if every single person in the world said no, the cheating partner would not be able to cheat. But honestly, how is that any good??? Someone who isn't cheating on you because they CAN'T isn't really the person I'm looking for....

 

I understand where you are coming from , and in many respects I agree 100%.

 

The op asked he question

 

"Just read a thread where an individual had sex with another, knowing the other had a BF and attempted to claim that he had no responsibility as "he" wasn't the one cheating.

 

My question is: Where is society today if we all take this same approach of complete self interest? Is this truly where our society is, that one can knowlingly participate in a cheating interaction and truly feel that they have no fault or ownership in any wrong doing?

 

Maybe I am just shocked or maybe I just don't want to believe that our society is as morally void of ethics as this might indicate. Very sad if this is where we are.

 

What are your thoughts?"

 

Thus, the question wasn't really about whether or not a spouse or rleationship partner should be held responsible or their part in cheating, as they obviously should be.

 

The question was about the responsibility of the om/ow and their responsibility for the affair, and also how can one act in such a way that is only in self interest without considering the affect it may have on others.

[WasOtherWoman]

 

The question was about the responsibility of the om/ow and their responsibility for the affair, and also how can one act in such a way that is only in self interest without considering the affect it may have on others.

 

So, this is a tricky area, I think. I consider myself a very moral person, I am ethical in business, have never stolen anything, devote a great deal of my salary to animal rescue (thanks, Husband ) and am generally a decent person. Yet, I did engage in an affair once.

 

I allowed myself to get involved with someone else's husband, instigated it, in fact. (all despite having been a BS ten years prior).

 

Am I proud of it??? Certainly not. It is all about what you can justify to yourself. And, when you really want something, sadly, somehow you can justify it, at least enough to proceed with it.

 

It wasn't that I didn't care about his wife. Honestly, I did. It was just that I cared about ME more.

 

It isn't pretty, but that is the blatant truth.

[GunslingerRoland]

So if your boyfriend was sleeping with your best friend, you'd dump him and remain best friends with her?

 

 

Totally different situation. If you are friends with a person and you sleep with their partner you are betraying your friendship to that person.

 

 

If you don't know someone, and sleep with their partner, you're betraying what exactly, your complete non relationship with that other person?

 

 

It's the person cheating's fault, plain and simple. A lot of misplaced blaming in these situations IMO.

[purplesorrow]

The fact of the matter is if they can live with doing it then it isn't a problem for them. I have to live with the fact that they did it. Some people just do not care and that's fine. I choose not to f u c k with people who operate that way. For me, do no harm but take no shyt.

[purplesorrow]

Totally different situation. If you are friends with a person and you sleep with their partner you are betraying your friendship to that person.

 

 

If you don't know someone, and sleep with their partner, you're betraying what exactly, your complete non relationship with that other person?

 

 

It's the person cheating's fault, plain and simple. A lot of misplaced blaming in these situations IMO.

 

I see what you're saying but if the ap is completely innocent why is it that some don't want anyone to know? My ex's ow begged me not to expose her. She gave that he took vows speech, I simply agreed. A month later when she wanted to 'apologize' she said she could see her role in the hurt and 'sincerely apologized' for it.

[Rejected Rosebud]

An analogous situation: hockey trials.

 

We live in a capitalist world order. We constantly compete for scarce resources. Some people get, others don't. I find it bizarre that people that embrace capitalism and its basic philosophy feel so outraged when that same principle is applied in personal relationships. Someone gets out competed in the workplace? That's life. In a personal relationship? You horrible horrible person, you! Go sit on the naughty step!

 

Wow. That makes me feel really sorry for you. Are you going to just quietly move on after you pass the age of about 30 or so?? Because you will definitely never be able to "compete" in the physical department, which you seem to find of paramount importance, with the millions of women everywhere who are much younger and more attractive than you will be. Heck no matter how fit and beautiful you are right now even in your prime of about 23 or so, there are probably women who are even more so, who your husband might be looking at right this moment!

 

If relationships are analogous to being chosen for a competitive sport team, you might as well just obsolete yourself. Nobody comes up on top of that kind of competition when they are past peak physical performance. :(

 

For some of us, love, commitment and being there for each other is not about competing with other people for a spot. it's just between the two people involved. This kind of relationship is able to last into times of less than perfect physical, career, social, etc. performance peaks!!! Thank goodness for that, if I felt like I had to be competing with every woman on the planet to be loved by my guy, I would just join a celibate religious order or something!!

[serial muse]

You misunderstand. I do value marriage. Or rather, I value commitment. Whether a paper has been signed or not is irrelevant.

 

But I think the full fault of the cheating is on the cheating partner. 100%. If my boyfriend cheats on me, that's HIS fault. Not whoever girl he cheated with. HE was the one who should have kept it in his pants.

 

 

Hm. I guess the thing is that it's pretty unrealistic to suggest that it's some sort of black and white thing -- either the AP is responsible for cheating or bears no responsibility at all and is some sort of neutral third party. It's semantics, IMO, but I suppose I would generally agree that as far as the concept of cheating within a marriage is concerned, the wayward partner bears that responsibility. But does that mean that the AP has no responsibility for anything to do with the situation (assuming that s/he knew what was going on)?

 

I personally don't think so. Were I an AP, I would feel guilt. When I was a BS, I felt by turns sorry for and angry at the OW. I didn't exactly blame her for cheating, but she certainly took part in the situation, lied to my face (we weren't friends, but she was a coworker of my former WS so I met her several times), and participated in a lot of the deception specifically designed to keep me in the dark (not to mention participated in talking smack about me, a person she barely knew and could have no personal opinion of, as a way to justify what was going on).

 

Does that make her responsible for cheating? Not exactly, I guess. I divorced the guy who was. But it makes her selfish and thoughtless and at times even cruel, in my book, so really not a great human being (at least in that situation). So I'm not sure that it matters to me a whole lot to me how one apportions specific blame. They're both people I hope never to interact with again.

Edited April 20, 2016 by serial muse

[jen1447]

I understand where you are coming from , and in many respects I agree 100%.

 

The op asked he question

 

"Just read a thread where an individual had sex with another, knowing the other had a BF and attempted to claim that he had no responsibility as "he" wasn't the one cheating.

 

My question is: Where is society today if we all take this same approach of complete self interest? Is this truly where our society is, that one can knowlingly participate in a cheating interaction and truly feel that they have no fault or ownership in any wrong doing?

 

Maybe I am just shocked or maybe I just don't want to believe that our society is as morally void of ethics as this might indicate. Very sad if this is where we are.

 

What are your thoughts?"

 

Thus, the question wasn't really about whether or not a spouse or rleationship partner should be held responsible or their part in cheating, as they obviously should be.

 

The question was about the responsibility of the om/ow and their responsibility for the affair, and also how can one act in such a way that is only in self interest without considering the affect it may have on others.

 

It actually wasn't a question at all, or at best a loaded one, since the conclusion was already stated in the premise - "OM/W are bad, bad ppl."

 

Personally not interested in taking the bait and being a piñata for 'hit piece' forumry. Start an honest thread looking for honest, dispassionate discourse and I'll play. Start a thread recruiting bashers to bash a selected target, no thanks. :-/

 

I applaud cocorico and ASG et al for taking it on but it's a zero sum game.

[Woggle]

I don't understand how any man can look at himself in the mirror after sleeping 38th another man's woman. We all on we want to kill om when we are betrayed so why become the enemy. Have some pride in yourself.

[AlwaysGrowing]

So, this is a tricky area, I think. I consider myself a very moral person, I am ethical in business, have never stolen anything, devote a great deal of my salary to animal rescue (thanks, Husband ) and am generally a decent person. Yet, I did engage in an affair once.

 

I allowed myself to get involved with someone else's husband, instigated it, in fact. (all despite having been a BS ten years prior).

 

Am I proud of it??? Certainly not. It is all about what you can justify to yourself. And, when you really want something, sadly, somehow you can justify it, at least enough to proceed with it.

 

It wasn't that I didn't care about his wife. Honestly, I did. It was just that I cared about ME more.

 

It isn't pretty, but that is the blatant truth.

 

I respect your honesty.

 

I respect the fact that you do not deflect your role in the affair onto the WS.

 

Or come up with hockey analogies to explain your thought processes.

[mightycpa]

Given what I read from many here, I guess I don't need to feel so bad about buying blood diamonds, clothes made by near-slave labor, energy from polluters, products from companies that eschew ethnic and sexual diversity and the like.

 

All that stuff is just problems in the relationships between other people, and I don't really have anything to do with it. As long as the prices are good and the customer service is tip-top, I'm cool.

 

It IS a lot simpler this way.

[wmacbride]

So, this is a tricky area, I think. I consider myself a very moral person, I am ethical in business, have never stolen anything, devote a great deal of my salary to animal rescue (thanks, Husband ) and am generally a decent person. Yet, I did engage in an affair once.

 

I allowed myself to get involved with someone else's husband, instigated it, in fact. (all despite having been a BS ten years prior).

 

Am I proud of it??? Certainly not. It is all about what you can justify to yourself. And, when you really want something, sadly, somehow you can justify it, at least enough to proceed with it.

 

It wasn't that I didn't care about his wife. Honestly, I did. It was just that I cared about ME more.

 

It isn't pretty, but that is the blatant truth.

 

At least you are honest and not rationalizing.

I admire that, it is something that is rather uncommon these days.

[wmacbride]

It actually wasn't a question at all, or at best a loaded one, since the conclusion was already stated in the premise - "OM/W are bad, bad ppl."

 

Personally not interested in taking the bait and being a piñata for 'hit piece' forumry. Start an honest thread looking for honest, dispassionate discourse and I'll play. Start a thread recruiting bashers to bash a selected target, no thanks. :-/

 

I applaud cocorico and ASG et al for taking it on but it's a zero sum game.

 

The only one seeing the 'ow are bad, bad people" seems to be you,and I can't understand why.

 

All people are questioning is whether or not an ow holds any responsibility for the pain a bs feels due to an A.

[wmacbride]

An analogy i once read for the situation was of a bartender who offers a man , who is obviously intoxicated and who he saw drive up in his car a free drink.

 

The man accepts it, then gets in his car to drive home.

 

The man gets in an accident and his wife and children pay a high price for his drinking.

 

Is this the bartender's fault? she he have foreseen what could have happened and not given the man a drink?

 

The man exercised his free will and took the drink. The bartender didn't pour it down his throat.

 

In many jurisdictions, the bartender can be held ethically responsible for letting the man drive drunk, and should an accident occur, he can be held legally responsible as well.

 

this does not absolve the driver of any of his guilt over driving while intoxicated.

[ChickiePops]

Totally different situation. If you are friends with a person and you sleep with their partner you are betraying your friendship to that person.

 

 

If you don't know someone, and sleep with their partner, you're betraying what exactly, your complete non relationship with that other person?

 

 

It's the person cheating's fault, plain and simple. A lot of misplaced blaming in these situations IMO.

 

Who said anything about betrayal? You are knowingly causing pain to another human being. How can someone be ok with intentionally hurting someone else regardless of whether they know them?

 

If I murder a stranger should I not feel guilty because I didn't know them?