this just happened

[katielee]

I would also like to add that i don't think hubby has been one to engage in talking about women at work. He's just not that way. So when that text came through, and I know he doesn't really talk like this, I thought this must be serious.

[Mrs. John Adams]

A "Dont you wish you were golfing on my team with sherry from...," that implies either of them or both has the crush.

 

He said he didn't. I have to believe him. But I wasn't wrong for asking. He said he would have asked too.

 

Behavior patterns? There was nothing different during his affairs. None. I just happened upon a text as I walked by on my way to the bathroom. Similar to this. I suppose that's why I triggered so much. The text has become a small thing now. I understand after we talked several times.

The not understand what it did to me and WHY I needed to talk about it ? Disappointing.

Im not going to spy. I don't feel the need to. That isn't the issue...

 

Then you have resolved it and you are satisfied.

 

I understand your disappointment in this The not understand what it did to me and WHY I needed to talk about it ? Disappointing.

 

He screwed up yet again.

 

I screw up all the time.....thank Goodness John loves me in spite of it.

 

I just want to be comfortable...and I am willing to bet that's what you want to....and it sounds like that's what your husband wants to.

 

So the bottom line is how to we best achieve being ourselves...being loved and accepted for who we are...and living in peace and harmony with our spouse?

 

The secret of life

[katielee]

Katielee,

 

I have two questions; do not feel as though you need to answer them or further explain yourself.

 

1. What was your specific goal(s)/expectations of going back to MC? Both for yourself and of him? I believe you said one was your desire/need for more adequate emotional transparency. Were there any other specific ones?

 

2. Did the MC discuss or give you guidance on how to accomplish these goals together and how to help your spouse individually?

 

It seems to me like you know where you want to go but may not know how to get there. Is that a fair statement?

 

I asked to go to MC because he just didn't understand why it was a big deal that he went to an event that OW2 helped organize, and would likely be at. It's where they met. And he told me about it later. I couldn't believe it.

 

The MC is the one who suggested he needed to be more emotionally transparent.

[LivingWaterPlease]

The commercial - I guess as a FWW I wouldn't put myself in the living room of my AP or his BS. It would be easier if they never saw me, I'm sure.

There were comments from women around town about how hunky hubby is. It created anxiety for me. I know that is my thing. But after an affair, you try to not create any more anxiety for the BS. They already have enough to deal with.

The fitness bootcamp place I used to workout at wanted to put me on their Facebook page as someone who is middle aged and fit, with a picture. I declined. I didn't want hubby to feel that anxiety of me being "out there."

 

I missed the part about him being in the living room of his AP or AP's BS. Got it, and understand your issue.

 

Hmmm, about the fitness boot camp place, it would seem to me to be a little pretentious to do that as a customer. If your routine work was modeling talent, then I doubt anyone would pay much attention to it. The bank commercial's a little different to me but again, since it was in his AP's living room, that changes things.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I asked to go to MC because he just didn't understand why it was a big deal that he went to an event that OW2 helped organize, and would likely be at. It's where they met. And he told me about it later. I couldn't believe it.

 

The MC is the one who suggested he needed to be more emotionally transparent.

 

Katielee....I am curious

 

Has he ALWAYS had a problem being emotionally transparent?

and if this is his character....how does he become someone he isn't?

and is it fair for you to expect him to?

 

Did the Therapist address this? if so what did she say?

[katielee]

I missed the part about him being in the living room of his AP or AP's BS. Got it, and understand your issue.

 

Hmmm, about the fitness boot camp place, it would seem to me to be a little pretentious to do that as a customer. If your routine work was modeling talent, then I doubt anyone would pay much attention to it. The bank commercial's a little different to me but again, since it was in his AP's living room, that changes things.

 

When I say in their living room I mean they would be watching it on TV.

It wasn't a bank commercial, he did this for a friend.

[katielee]

Katielee....I am curious

 

Has he ALWAYS had a problem being emotionally transparent?

and if this is his character....how does he become someone he isn't?

and is it fair for you to expect him to?

 

Did the Therapist address this? if so what did she say?

 

Mrs JA - two other issues we've had he's come to me. The academic dishonesty when he was doing his MBA. And stealing tax returns from the bank he previously worked at. While he did these things, he came to me first and we dealt with it together. I was pissed but didn't over react.

 

I guess I look at it this way. I cheated. I better change myself. I better be radically honest no matter how uncomfortable it is for me. If keeping feelings to yourself causes trouble in your life, shouldn't you do things differently?

 

MC looked at him and said you must do this. Not much more said. Maybe it's talked about in IC, I don't know. Hes close lipped about IC.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Mrs JA - two other issues we've had he's come to me. The academic dishonesty when he was doing his MBA. And stealing tax returns from the bank he previously worked at. While he did these things, he came to me first and we dealt with it together. I was pissed but didn't over react.

 

I guess I look at it this way. I cheated. I better change myself. I better be radically honest no matter how uncomfortable it is for me. If keeping feelings to yourself causes trouble in your life, shouldn't you do things differently?

 

MC looked at him and said you must do this. Not much more said. Maybe it's talked about in IC, I don't know. Hes close lipped about IC.

 

So the examples you gave are to show me that he came to you in times of trouble....and you worked through them together.

 

But this happened PRE your affair.

 

Do you not realize that his whole world was shattered....and perhaps he doesn't feel safe coming to you anymore like he did then.

 

If you are disappointed in him....in his reactions....in his emotional transparency....could it be that he feels the very same way toward you?

 

and he is not capable of being emotionally transparent to you because you betrayed him.

 

Cause-effect. You cheated...he lost all faith in you...he lost his trust in you...and he has built walls around his heart because you broke it.

 

cause-effect. he cheated to pay you back...you lost all faith in him...you lost your trust in him....and you have built walls around your heart because he broke it.

 

and you are two different people with different personalities, and strengths and weaknesses....and infidelity has brought out the worst and the best in both of you.

 

He cannot expect you to react like he reacts and you cannot expect him to react the way you react.

 

You might say...but I am emotionally transparent to him and he needs to reciprocate....

but you must understand...just because you are capable of reacting that way does not mean he is.

 

He may NEVER be able to be more emotionally transparent to you...it may be the scar he carries from your betrayal.

 

 

You have worked very hard at becoming a "better" person....but the hurt your betrayal caused is still present and it always will be. You cannot undo it or take it away. You have concentrated on you so that you can be a better person and wife....and he knows that....but you cannot repair or take away the damage you caused.

 

We have talked often about rebuilding trust...and we all seem to agree that while it returns...it never returns to 100%.

 

Emotional transparency requires trust.....

 

 

SO you must ask yourself....is it a deal breaker? only you can answer that.

 

Are you at an impasse?

[katielee]

I do realize I shattered him. I understand why he wouldn't trust me.

But why stay in a marriage like this? If he doesn't feel safe enough with me I get that. What is he getting out of it then? The same as me? You could ask us both, why not leave then?

I guess we're both in the same place. I KNOW he doesn't trust me. If he did, his job, and doing well at it, wouldn't be as important to him as it is. I can feel that.

I just don't know what to do. I suppose some would suggest trust him explicitly and maybe he'll start trusting you... I don't know if I'm strong enough to do that. I wish I was.

[OneLov]

Katielee,

 

Does he know how to go about becoming more emotionally transparent? Did the MC suggest ways to change his current behavior? Did you both discuss strategies that would improve communication?

 

Maybe he does not know how? Or maybe he may have trust issues and has built a wall like Mrs. JA suggest? Do you believe he wants to or can change?

[Mrs. John Adams]

I do realize I shattered him. I understand why he wouldn't trust me.

But why stay in a marriage like this? If he doesn't feel safe enough with me I get that. What is he getting out of it then? The same as me? You could ask us both, why not leave then?

I guess we're both in the same place. I KNOW he doesn't trust me. If he did, his job, and doing well at it, wouldn't be as important to him as it is. I can feel that.

I just don't know what to do. I suppose some would suggest trust him explicitly and maybe he'll start trusting you... I don't know if I'm strong enough to do that. I wish I was.

 

Why do many people stay in marriages? You are no different than those of us who stay....

 

Katielee...look at John and I....we stayed for thirty years yearning for trust to return....yearning for forgiveness.....yearning for remorse. Hoping all the while those things would come. and for us...they did...but they don't for everybody.....and it took thirty years for us to reach this stage.

 

I am not telling you not to hope....I am telling you...you may have to settle...and if settling is not what you want...then you may have to get out.

He has told you he is willing to settle.

 

Look around you...how many couples do you know...who seem to just exist together? Are they wrong to settle? They may not be head over heels in love....they may be in marriage with no sex.....they may live separate lives ....yet they stay married.

 

by the way...you cannot force yourself to trust....it is not something you can fake. You either trust or you don't. and your trust in him...has nothing to do with his trust in you.

[OneLov]

I just don't know what to do.

 

I truly believe if you both committed to becoming assertive communicators, your chances of rebuilding trust, his demonstration of emotional transparency, and your self-esteem would greatly improve.

[katielee]

Onelove - did you send me those links? I read them. I feel I'm assertive at communicating... I would like it if we did this.

[xxoo]

A "Dont you wish you were golfing on my team with sherry from...," that implies either of them or both has the crush.

 

He said he didn't. I have to believe him. But I wasn't wrong for asking. He said he would have asked too. .

 

Sure, I'd ask about it, too.

 

But I wouldn't expect my husband to disclose that Jim from accounting sent an obnoxious text about Sherry if I hadn't seen it.

 

I know "Jim from accounting" and his type. THat guy probably makes lots of obnoxious comments.

[katielee]

Xxoo - I'm not sure I need to hear about all of these things either. But the one time I see it is a chance for us to talk about boundaries. Me seeing it was a big deal.

[xxoo]

Xxoo - I'm not sure I need to hear about all of these things either. But the one time I see it is a chance for us to talk about boundaries. Me seeing it was a big deal.

 

I absolutely would ask about that text! It's not even a trigger for me, and I'd still ask. I'm nosy, and a wee bit prone to jealousy

[katielee]

Katielee,

 

Does he know how to go about becoming more emotionally transparent? Did the MC suggest ways to change his current behavior? Did you both discuss strategies that would improve communication?

 

Maybe he does not know how? Or maybe he may have trust issues and has built a wall like Mrs. JA suggest? Do you believe he wants to or can change?

 

No. There were no suggestions by the MC.

He probably doesn't know how. He is probably afraid. He is afraid and frustrated by any anger I show. Or any uncomfortable issue I bring up.

I believe he thinks he doesnt have an issue. My inability to trust is the only issue, in his eyes...

[Mrs. John Adams]

No. There were no suggestions by the MC.

He probably doesn't know how. He is probably afraid. He is afraid and frustrated by any anger I show. Or any uncomfortable issue I bring up.

I believe he thinks he doesnt have an issue. My inability to trust is the only issue, in his eyes...

 

But you do not know that.....if he is not emotionally transparent....you do not know what he feels or what he is thinking or what he is afraid of.

 

My bet is he is thinking...she cheated...I cheated....let's move on.

You are the one analyzing everything and picking it apart and trying to apply what you have learned to the relationship to make it better.

 

You are the one going to therapy...you are the one reading books...you are the one going to forums.

 

Meanwhile...he is working hard on his career and burying it all there.....and just wants it to all go away. He is not unusual...he is not alone.....he is doing what he thinks is best....moving on.

 

and you are doing what you think is best....and you can't do it his way...and he can't do it your way....but you both want the same thing.....for it to just go away.

 

I am not saying either one of you is wrong or right.....but it is what it is....and there has to be compromise.

 

Pick your battles ....even those within yourself.

[xxoo]

No. There were no suggestions by the MC.

He probably doesn't know how. He is probably afraid. He is afraid and frustrated by any anger I show. Or any uncomfortable issue I bring up.

I believe he thinks he doesnt have an issue. My inability to trust is the only issue, in his eyes...

 

Can you express your desire for this kind of intimacy without it being about trust/i.e. affairs?

 

I'm thinking of the conversation you should have had with him 10 years ago, pre-affairs. What was missing then? Trust wasn't an issue for you, so what was? What kind of interactions and behaviors would've met that need?

[Mrs. John Adams]

Can you express your desire for this kind of intimacy without it being about trust/i.e. affairs?

 

I'm thinking of the conversation you should have had with him 10 years ago, pre-affairs. What was missing then? Trust wasn't an issue for you, so what was? What kind of interactions and behaviors would've met that need?

 

you know...you are a very lucky woman...you have never experienced infidelity....

 

for those of us who have.....your question is almost impossible to answer....especially someone like me ....

 

There was NOTHING wrong....our relationship was just fine...I cannot answer for Katielee...but i can tell you...in my case...john was not doing anything wrong.....his behavior was fine...and there would not have been a conversation about missing pieces or trust or behaviors that were wrong.

 

As hard as that may be to believe....sometimes it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the spouse and it has EVERYTHING to do with the betrayer.

 

I appreciate your input...because you are very insightful....but sometimes....if you have not been there...you just don't get it.

[xxoo]

you know...you are a very lucky woman...you have never experienced infidelity....

 

for those of us who have.....your question is almost impossible to answer....especially someone like me ....

 

There was NOTHING wrong....our relationship was just fine...I cannot answer for Katielee...but i can tell you...in my case...john was not doing anything wrong.....his behavior was fine...and there would not have been a conversation about missing pieces or trust or behaviors that were wrong.

 

As hard as that may be to believe....sometimes it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the spouse and it has EVERYTHING to do with the betrayer.

 

I appreciate your input...because you are very insightful....but sometimes....if you have not been there...you just don't get it.

 

Katielee has said in the past that there was something missing before the affairs: the deep intimacy. I'm not presuming anything here.

[Mrs. John Adams]

understood...katielee can address it for her...sometimes it is difficult to follow her story....

[frogss29]

I have found this post so interesting........just reminds me , again, how we are all on the same journey.

Different paths but the same journey.

I think, once infidelity has invaded a relationship, we are always on guard to try and insure that it NEVER happens again.

Or, more importantly, that we don't make the same mistakes that can lead to serious misunderstandings, distance, dissatisfaction etc that can lead to boundaries being compromised.

In a 'before infidelity' relationship, the work should be done to keep the relationship healthy.

But, 'after infidelity' , maybe there is a sad edge to the work we do????

So, reading odd text messages that previously would have just started an enquiring conversation now has an edge to it.

And if something odd happens that we either don't understand or triggers usI think it is normal to get unexplainably angry and a little irrational. It isn't nice. It is quite embarrassing, really. But it is what happens after you have been betrayed in the most hideous way by the one person who you thought you could completely trust.

And I know we shouldn't generalise but I think men often have a harder time talking through all the negative feelings etc than women do.

I seem to NEED to talk through things again and again in order for me to realise that everything is fine while my husband seems to think if everything is fine we don't need to talk about it. And I know he is afraid of the anger that seems to erupt because, in his eyes, that means we haven't healed at all. But, for me, it is just the opposite. It is his response to that anger that helps me heal......

Does any of this make sense ????

[Mrs. John Adams]

I have found this post so interesting........just reminds me , again, how we are all on the same journey.

Different paths but the same journey.

I think, once infidelity has invaded a relationship, we are always on guard to try and insure that it NEVER happens again.

Or, more importantly, that we don't make the same mistakes that can lead to serious misunderstandings, distance, dissatisfaction etc that can lead to boundaries being compromised.

In a 'before infidelity' relationship, the work should be done to keep the relationship healthy.

But, 'after infidelity' , maybe there is a sad edge to the work we do????

So, reading odd text messages that previously would have just started an enquiring conversation now has an edge to it.

And if something odd happens that we either don't understand or triggers usI think it is normal to get unexplainably angry and a little irrational. It isn't nice. It is quite embarrassing, really. But it is what happens after you have been betrayed in the most hideous way by the one person who you thought you could completely trust.

And I know we shouldn't generalise but I think men often have a harder time talking through all the negative feelings etc than women do.

I seem to NEED to talk through things again and again in order for me to realise that everything is fine while my husband seems to think if everything is fine we don't need to talk about it. And I know he is afraid of the anger that seems to erupt because, in his eyes, that means we haven't healed at all. But, for me, it is just the opposite. It is his response to that anger that helps me heal......

Does any of this make sense ????

 

makes perfect sense...accept that...I am the one who wanted to "just move on" ....and i cheated first just like Katielee. So I think it has to do with the personality rather than the gender.

 

My john analyzes...obviously so does Kaitelee....My john has the temper...so does Katielee

 

so what does all of this mean? God only knows....

[katielee]

But you do not know that.....if he is not emotionally transparent....you do not know what he feels or what he is thinking or what he is afraid of.

 

My bet is he is thinking...she cheated...I cheated....let's move on.

You are the one analyzing everything and picking it apart and trying to apply what you have learned to the relationship to make it better.

 

You are the one going to therapy...you are the one reading books...you are the one going to forums.

 

Meanwhile...he is working hard on his career and burying it all there.....and just wants it to all go away. He is not unusual...he is not alone.....he is doing what he thinks is best....moving on.

 

and you are doing what you think is best....and you can't do it his way...and he can't do it your way....but you both want the same thing.....for it to just go away.

 

I am not saying either one of you is wrong or right.....but it is what it is....and there has to be compromise.

 

Pick your battles ....even those within yourself.

 

I understand this. The burying himself in work concerns me. Dont buried things always raise to the surface?

 

To be clear, I wanted emotional intimacy, but I didn't even give him the chance to work on that with me. If I would have asked he might have given. We'll never know. And now I'm asking him to be vulnerable in a situation I've created with mistrust.