Curious about this sentiment . . .[there is no excuse for cheating]

[central]

The rationale is that if things are bad, you leave. Of course, that's not always easy, especially if the spouse is controlling so that you have no resources or connections to help you. Not every community has a women's shelter or other means of assistance. When you lack a means of physical escape in very bad circumstances, you may turn to emotional escape.

 

 

Sure, it's not a good idea, but an abusive spouse has made it easier to make bad choices, and may - in some few cases - even deserve any pain and suffering they experience as a result. Of course, if they are abusive, they may hurt you or even kill you if they find out.

 

 

Anyway, I don't think cheating is ever a good choice, but it may seem like the only escape, sometimes. And an abusive - or even controlling or neglectful spouse - has already compromised the marriage and their vows, so need to take some responsibility for their role. Few BSs are completely without contributing faults, IMO.

[katielee]

 

Few BSs are completely without contributing faults, IMO.

 

contributing faults to a marriage for sure but as agreen light for their spouse to have an affair, um no.

[understand50]

Put me in the no reason to engage in cheating because a marriage is bad camp.

 

If your spouse is physically abusing you, that is a legal matter, and one should really leave. As for the general issue, "I am unhappy", "I am not getting enough sex, or no sex", there are paths that can be worked out between you and your spouse. One is divorce, another a "open" marriage, or working to solve the issue. In the end, separating is the honorable path, before thinking and engaging in cheating.

 

Infidelity, is not the only problem that can happen in a marriage. Many, but not all times, there are other things going on that lead to one spouse being open to the thought of cheating. Infidelity, makes all issues in the marriage, much harder to work on, as the basic trust has been shattered. Being able to set aside infidelity by one side to look at the others grievances, is a hard thing. This does need to happen, as problems, issues and grievances, cannot be allowed to "Come" together and grow, until they are insolvable. Dealing with the here and now is lost, or hard, when you add cheating to the mix. I think the whole idea, of your "cheating" trumps anything else I am doing or not doing in the marriage, is wrong, but as things go, it is a large problem, that will over shadow everything else. It also tends to keep giving. Reconcile for a time, and something happens, not infidelity, the earlier cheating is a another weight on the scale when deciding if you should stay and try again, or leave. Why add that? For the rest of your time with your loved one, they know you betrayed them in a very basic way.

 

Infidelity, is never justified. If a marriage is such, that it is a option in your mind, one should be thinking separation and divorce.

 

My Two cents.........

[Liam1]

I continually read everywhere that no matter what was happening in the M, no matter how awful the BS was, there is no excuse for cheating. Is that correct?

 

So, is the assumption then that infidelity trumps all other hurts, abuses, misbehavior, and betrayals in an M? There is never even an abusive or painful marital 'tie'????

 

Well, I had an affair. When I first came to this forum I felt it was wrong and did trump all other abuses.

 

However after sorting through my thoughts here and reading other posts I think there are many forms of emotional abuse in a marriage that equal the emotional abuse of an affair.

 

Is the affair wrong? Yes. Is it ever justified? MAYBE.

 

Is belittling or degrading or ignoring or withholding affection forms of abuse that are wrong? Yes. Is it ever justified? Maybe.

 

In my case, I feel resolutely, after participating on this forum, that the affair saved my marriage. It was a wake up call to both my wife and to me.

 

The affair forced my wife into counseling, after stubbornly refusing it for years, and refusing to even acknowledge that there were issues in the marriage that were causing marital dysfunction.

 

A good INFIDELITY counselor, one who specializes in adultery will eventually, after addressing the affair, help the BS take a look at their part in the dysfunctional marriage.

 

Some people throw about the word divorce far too easily, as if that is a more acceptable betrayal than an affair.

 

I don't agree.

 

A divorce is a major upheaval and also leads too distrust going forward.

 

Particularly if the spouse that does NOT want the divorce had somehow convinced themselves that there was no marital dysfunction to such a degree, that they are blindsided by the divorce request, just as they are blindsided by the affair.

 

My infidelity counselor, one chosen by my wife, one day point blank sat down in front of my wife, looked her in the eyes and asked my wife if she would have preferred that I had simply asked her for a divorce.

 

Before she could answer, the counselor then reminded my wife that she had refused my requests for marriage counseling for years and that choice was solely on her.

 

The counselor said that she took the option to address marital dysfunction before the affair away from both of us by repeatedly refusing requests to meet with a marriage counselor.

 

The counselor than moved her chair closer to my wife, looked her in the eyes and told her to think about her answer until the next session.

 

My wife did, and at the next session my wife said that "no, she would NOT have preferred that I simply divorced her."

 

My wife said she would have been MORE devastated had I simply came home one day and handed her divorce papers.

 

So, in my case, the affair was something that woke us both up and forced us to address the issues plaguing the marriage.

 

Lastly, I also feel that staying in an unhappy marriage is wrong and is also a betrayal of trust and living a lie. Why pretend everything is hunky dorey if it is not. Be honest. Don't live a lie.

 

If a person is unhappy and will not seek counseling, but continually engages in behaviors that belittle or berate or shame or guilt trip the other spouse that is also a form of emotional abuse.

 

Therefore, after a few years, if a person is continually bashing the WS over the head with the affair as a way to lay guilt or gain control of a situation or win an argument, then that is abusive and that person needs to address that abuse, just as the person who has an affair needs to address the abusive aspects of that course of action.

 

A person who is so unhappy in a marriage that they are emotionally abusing their spouse, has the option to divorce, too or they can seek counseling.

 

Otherwise they are living a lie. And, as we all know lies are destructive.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Liam1

[Mrs. John Adams]

I guess I would then ask another question...

 

If a relationship is so damaging... So abusive.. That infidelity is an acceptable answer....

 

Then is murder also an acceptable answer?

 

The logic is clearly the same.

 

 

The answer to an abusive relationship is to get out... Call family... Call friends... Contact your church or synagogue...family services...

 

But get out. Screwing someone else will not fix the issue.. It will compound it.

 

I would also like to point out... That we are all morally capable of deceit. Even those who join forums and pretend to be someone we are not ...

 

You may have better morals than I do in that you have not screwed someone other than your spouse... But you too have been deceitful.

[katielee]

I doubt many people would say an affair saved their marriage.

I bet if you had come home and handed your wife divorce papers, Liam, that would have woken her up the same as your affair, which I believe is NEVER justified.

Divorce leads to distrust? Not even close to what an affair does to distrust.

[Liam1]

I doubt many people would say an affair saved their marriage.

I bet if you had come home and handed your wife divorce papers, Liam, that would have woken her up the same as your affair, which I believe is NEVER justified.

Divorce leads to distrust? Not even close to what an affair does to distrust.

 

Actually, according to my counselor that is not accurate. She claims that she has counseled many people who feel the affair saved and improved their marriage.

 

This is often mentioned in numerous books about affairs.

 

The affair forced the couple to seek counseling.

 

You might want to read a book by Anne Bercht. She claims it saved her marriage. She has a website and book the delves into it extensively.

 

My wife has stated many times that she feels our marriage is improved vastly.

 

That is one reason why our reconciliation is successful. If she did not feel that way, it would really be easier for us both to divorce. But neither of us wants to divorce.

 

Obviously you feel differently. You feel the affair destroyed your marriage beyond repair. If so, I am sorry, but I am sure you have reasons for staying in the marriage still, even though you feel it is destroyed rather than just divorcing.

 

Divorce is not always an easy option for everyone, for various reasons.

 

Handing someone divorce papers out of the blue leads to distrust, too.

 

Personally, too, I think using a divorce as a lever is wrong and immoral. I would not use divorce unless I meant it.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Liam1

[JohnAdams]

I would say beyond any doubt, given the choice of being served divorce papers or being cheated on, I would choose the divorce papers.

 

 

Either one is a wake up call. But, with the divorce papers you know how unhappy your spouse must be and you now have the option of divorcing or trying to work it out with your spouse. With an affair, the choice was taken away from you.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Obviously we can really only relate our own situations and experiences.

 

My marriage is better than it ever has been not because of my affair but in spite of it.

 

If I had come to John and said honey I have a date with someone tomorrow...

 

It would have been a wake up call... No divorce papers needed.

 

If a cheating spouse is honest ... They know had they disclosed the upcoming affair.. Their spouse would have not only objected ... But would have asked what can I do to make things better?

 

 

Our reconciliation is a work in process.. To declare it successful Is premature.

[Liam1]

I would say beyond any doubt, given the choice of being served divorce papers or being cheated on, I would choose the divorce papers.

 

 

Either one is a wake up call. But, with the divorce papers you know how unhappy your spouse must be and you now have the option of divorcing or trying to work it out with your spouse. With an affair, the choice was taken away from you.

 

That's very interesting John. I am sure there are people who feel as you do, too. And, that is okay.

 

For my part, If I was the one refusing counseling, I would prefer my wife had a revenge affair, rather than simply coming home one day and handing me divorce papers.

 

But everyone is different.

 

I am simply offering varying perspectives.

[waterwoman]

His affair improved our marriage. But it was a bit of a kill-or-cure solution (not that that he did it to provide a solution) and it could just have easily killed as cured. It would have been better if he have been grown-up enough to say that it wasn't working and we needed to do something about it. I could have said it as well. But neither of us did. Not loudly enough or clearly enough.

 

So now we have a far better marriage in many ways. But I still have a little hole in my heart and my soul that may never be healed and he has to carry a pile of guilt and shame. And boy have we both hurt over the last few years....

 

You might say that an affair is an childish and PA solution to marital issues in a marriage where resentment on both sides had held sway for a while. Better to have a grown-up marriage with sensible, straightforward people in it but..... we're human beings not saints.

[sandylee1]

Rather than just come home with divorce papers and blindside your spouse ... you say I've talked about the problems .... I've suggested counselling..... I've done X and I've tried y... and nothing has changed ..... this isn't the marriage I want for us.. if there is no agreement for counselling or any improvement.. I will file for a divorce in 6 months time.

 

Then you MAKE SURE you follow through if there is no change. You can always halt the divorce if things change.

 

Surely this ^^^^^^ is better than having an affair.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Liam... Since you were the cheater and not cheated on... I can see why you would say this and I think you truly feel this way.

 

If the shoe was on the other foot however.. You might feel differently.

 

You argue that your wife's rejection was abusive and a form of cheating. I view it as an illness ... An issue that should have been addressed by other professional means...

 

You did not ask your wife if it was ok to cheat... You took that decision upon yourself based wholly on you and not on her.

 

What's done is done... We cannot change it...

But you constantly come across as selfish and unfeeling where she is concerned. You know that the majority of members here are betrayed spouses and everytime you blame shift onto your wife it slaps them in the face.

 

You have no idea how it feels to find out your spouse was intimately involved with another person. It rattles everything in you to know the one person you loved and trusted in sickness and in health until death do us part... Betrayed you.

 

Your world as you knew it comes crashing around you... And no one asked your opinion... No one gave you the Chance to repair or leave... All of your choices were removed. It is a helplessness that is completely overwhelming.

 

Even living with a non sexual spouse... Is a choice you get to make. It may not be fair but you still have the choice to stay or leave. Adultery does not give equal choice to both partners. It allows one partners needs to become more important than the other....

[elaine567]

Liam...

You argue that your wife's rejection was abusive and a form of cheating. I view it as an illness ... An issue that should have been addressed by other professional means...

 

You did not ask your wife if it was ok to cheat... You took that decision upon yourself based wholly on you and not on her.

 

What's done is done... We cannot change it...

But you constantly come across as selfish and unfeeling where she is concerned. You know that the majority of members here are betrayed spouses and everytime you blame shift onto your wife it slaps them in the face.

 

 

Agreed, the blame shifting is getting ridiculous, more arrogant and more "entitled" and "justified" by the day.

 

[]

Edited March 24, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[TrustedthenBusted]

Why justify the actions of a cheater? They justify it enough themselves already.

[Horton]

Your spouse made you cheat on them by being so awful. Clearly you had no other option but to have an affair. All of the solutions to your marital woes can be found in another person's genitals. You're not to blame for your sins, somebody else is.

 

 

Feel better yet?

[Whatnotagain]

So, is the assumption then that infidelity trumps all other hurts, abuses, misbehavior, and betrayals in an M? There is never even an abusive or painful marital 'tie'????

 

Infidelity in and of itself is abusive and hurtful so what you are asking is, is it is OK to respond to abuse and hurt with abuse and hurt. Have you ever heard the old adage two wrongs don’t make a right? You may not agree that cheating is abusive but read the stories here from those who have been on the receiving end of all the lies and deception and you might understand what it does to them physically and emotionally. Even if they never find out there is likely a whole lot of negativity that is building in their relationship as their partner works to deceive them on a daily basis. Over time this takes a toll on the person who is being deceived and they are sitting there thinking, what the hell is going on. It is a very selfish thing and cheaters often heap a ton of negativity on their partner to justify what it is that they are doing.

 

 

So why not approach the partner first and seek to repair the relationship or end it, before entering into another one. One way puts you in a place where you are better than the person who is hurting you and the other makes you just like them.

[flickofthecoin]

I would rather be served divorce papers than be cheated on. What does cheating do to you that divorce papers won't?

In my experience as a BS, cheating will:

- give you nightmares, even months from DDay. You will wake yourself up struggling to breathe, with images of him, of her, of taunts and more betrayals.

- give you a fear for your health and wellbeing, knowing that your WS did not care to consider you when he chose to engage in a sexual affair.

- break your ability to trust your WS or anyone who follows, and that is lonelier than you know.

- instil in you a self-inadequacy which will impact in other areas of your life.

 

Divorce is talked about more than infidelity, and you're likely to get greater support for it. Infidelity on the other hand, is a much more lonelier road with a hell of a lot more judgement.

[Quiet Storm]

My personal integrity has nothing to do with my husband's actions.

 

I am not a cheater.

 

I want to be a good and honest person. If my husband turns into an assh0le or cheats on me, I'm not going to suddenly throw up my hands and say "Welp, my husband's a jerk so I can stop being a good person now!"

 

Sure, he might not deserve my loyalty anymore, but it doesn't mean all my values just go out the window.

 

My actions and behavior are a reflection of who I am. My character doesn't change based on what other people do to me.

[Ladyjane14]

NOTHING JUSTIFIES CHEATING. Nothing.

 

There is ALWAYS a better option. Just because you can't see the wound, doesn't mean it's not there. Just because you can't see the heart's blood, doesn't mean it isn't bleeding. Just because it may heal, doesn't mean there's not a permanent scar.

 

It IS a gut-punch. Just because it's not physical, doesn't mean it's not abuse.

 

Honesty can be expensive, I'll grant that. But if people would take the time to really understand the level of trauma they're creating in another human being, I truly believe that most would make a different choice.

[Marc878]

There are a lot of morons in the IC/MC field. Ask/read around.

[Ladyjane14]

Well, I had an affair. When I first came to this forum I felt it was wrong and did trump all other abuses.

 

However after sorting through my thoughts here and reading other posts I think there are many forms of emotional abuse in a marriage that equal the emotional abuse of an affair.

 

Is the affair wrong? Yes. Is it ever justified? MAYBE.

 

Is belittling or degrading or ignoring or withholding affection forms of abuse that are wrong? Yes. Is it ever justified? Maybe.

 

In my case, I feel resolutely, after participating on this forum, that the affair saved my marriage. It was a wake up call to both my wife and to me.

 

The affair forced my wife into counseling, after stubbornly refusing it for years, and refusing to even acknowledge that there were issues in the marriage that were causing marital dysfunction.

 

A good INFIDELITY counselor, one who specializes in adultery will eventually, after addressing the affair, help the BS take a look at their part in the dysfunctional marriage.

 

Some people throw about the word divorce far too easily, as if that is a more acceptable betrayal than an affair.

 

I don't agree.

 

A divorce is a major upheaval and also leads too distrust going forward.

 

Particularly if the spouse that does NOT want the divorce had somehow convinced themselves that there was no marital dysfunction to such a degree, that they are blindsided by the divorce request, just as they are blindsided by the affair.

 

My infidelity counselor, one chosen by my wife, one day point blank sat down in front of my wife, looked her in the eyes and asked my wife if she would have preferred that I had simply asked her for a divorce.

 

Before she could answer, the counselor then reminded my wife that she had refused my requests for marriage counseling for years and that choice was solely on her.

 

The counselor said that she took the option to address marital dysfunction before the affair away from both of us by repeatedly refusing requests to meet with a marriage counselor.

 

The counselor than moved her chair closer to my wife, looked her in the eyes and told her to think about her answer until the next session.

 

My wife did, and at the next session my wife said that "no, she would NOT have preferred that I simply divorced her."

 

My wife said she would have been MORE devastated had I simply came home one day and handed her divorce papers.

 

So, in my case, the affair was something that woke us both up and forced us to address the issues plaguing the marriage.

 

Lastly, I also feel that staying in an unhappy marriage is wrong and is also a betrayal of trust and living a lie. Why pretend everything is hunky dorey if it is not. Be honest. Don't live a lie.

 

If a person is unhappy and will not seek counseling, but continually engages in behaviors that belittle or berate or shame or guilt trip the other spouse that is also a form of emotional abuse.

 

Therefore, after a few years, if a person is continually bashing the WS over the head with the affair as a way to lay guilt or gain control of a situation or win an argument, then that is abusive and that person needs to address that abuse, just as the person who has an affair needs to address the abusive aspects of that course of action.

 

A person who is so unhappy in a marriage that they are emotionally abusing their spouse, has the option to divorce, too or they can seek counseling.

 

Otherwise they are living a lie. And, as we all know lies are destructive.

 

You could still have got her attention by handing her those divorce papers, and would likely have had the same outcome. All you needed was for her to see that you're serious.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy things are working out for you. But it's not the cheating that fixed it. It's the fact that you both had a "come-to-Jesus" moment in your marriage that forced you into real honesty. There are other, less scarring, ways to do that.

[thecharade]

Interesting responses. I enjoyed reading them, thanks.

 

I have a friend with a cold wife. (They both have issues, no doubt.) I have met her many times, and she is not a warm person. Wife refuses MC, not interested. He went alone but grew frustrated. He refuses to get a divorce. Says he is willing to work on things, so he is NOT going to lose 50% or more of his time with his kids just because his W has checked out and is 'messed up'. He says his wife offers "I lie there and look at the clock" sex. Only. She says she is happy like this. He is miserable! But he does not want to be 'punished' with divorce.

 

He is on the prowl for an A. No takers yet. I do not know what to say to him.

He is not justified? At all?

[Ladyjane14]

Interesting responses. I enjoyed reading them, thanks.

 

I have a friend with a cold wife. (They both have issues, no doubt.) I have met her many times, and she is not a warm person. Wife refuses MC, not interested. He went alone but grew frustrated. He refuses to get a divorce. Says he is willing to work on things, so he is NOT going to lose 50% or more of his time with his kids just because his W has checked out and is 'messed up'. He says his wife offers "I lie there and look at the clock" sex. Only. She says she is happy like this. He is miserable! But he does not want to be 'punished' with divorce.

 

He is on the prowl for an A. No takers yet. I do not know what to say to him.

He is not justified? At all?

 

Nope. He should hand her the divorce papers. He'll be less miserable either way it goes. She'll either get on board in the marriage, or he can be a great Dad to his kids half the time and enjoy his own pursuits when they're with Mom.

[Gloria25]

Nope. He should hand her the divorce papers. He'll be less miserable either way it goes. She'll either get on board in the marriage, or he can be a great Dad to his kids half the time and enjoy his own pursuits when they're with Mom.

 

I hear the divorce stories all day long on my fav podcaster's radio station. Divorce sometimes creates more problems than it solves....

 

The kids have their lives destroyed, worst if parents remarry and/or have more kids...An abusive spouse, upon divorce may extend that abuse towards the kids and/or use the kids to abuse the ex and courts aren't always fair and/or just in resolving disputes.

 

My fav podcaster advocates staying till the kids are 18 and pick up hobbies instead of cheating. She also says better to not divorce unless there's abuse, addictions, and/or affairs.

 

That's one reason why I never married and/or had kids. I used to see my mom just sit around in sadness and I swore I'd never allow myself to be "trapped" by sharing my money with some guy, by legal docs (marriage) and/or 18 year sentences (having kids).

 

So, people who cheat probably feel "trapped" and rationalize that they have a right to cheat and as long as they keep it on the downlow, the can survive the bad marriage without shaking things up.