Curious about this sentiment . . .[there is no excuse for cheating]

[Liam1]

Perhaps there is no excuse, but there are many reasons for cheating, and "horrible person" isn't the only reason.

 

My partner cheated, he's a good person with a caring heart. I cheated, I may not describe myself as positively as I do my partner, but I am def. not Lucifer.

 

Lucky for us, we also have considered our transgressions forgivable offenses, and love each other despite our failings.

 

To some, cheating is the ultimate offense, personally I place other things (physical / mental abuse for instance) much higher up on the "terrible" scale.

 

Well said.

 

My sense of ethics also says that there are things that occur in a marriage that are far worse than an affair.

 

I think when people like Esther Perel, Anne Bercht, Peggy Vaughn or others counsel that an infidelity can improve a marriage, based on numerous success stories, perhaps it likely threatening to many people. That's why some people insist that no there is never a valid reason for infidelity.

 

That is not, however, reality.

 

Even if there were no reason for the infidelity, that still does not ensure the marriage will not thrive afterward.

 

Marriage requires work, just like a garden,but in order for a marriage to work, both spouses need to tend to the Garden. I think that is just normal and should be understood.

 

In marriages people can get very lazy about tending to the garden and then they may be outraged when the other spouse also stops tending to the garden.

 

Like you, my wife was not outraged by the infidelity. She realized she was not pulling her weight in the marriage.

 

That is why our marriage has not only survived but thrived. I think it is important for people to know that a marriage can be much better after an infidelity. It is my hope that some people read our positive posts and are encouraged.

 

However, IMO, if people feel cheating is a deal breaker for their marriage that is okay, too.

 

For my part, just like you and your spouse. My spouse and I love each other despite both our failings.

[wmacbride]

Well said.

 

My sense of ethics also says that there are things that occur in a marriage that are far worse than an affair.

 

I think when people like Esther Perel, Anne Bercht, Peggy Vaughn or others counsel that an infidelity can improve a marriage, based on numerous success stories, perhaps it likely threatening to many people. That's why some people insist that no there is never a valid reason for infidelity.

 

That is not, however, reality.

 

Even if there were no reason for the infidelity, that still does not ensure the marriage will not thrive afterward.

 

Marriage requires work, just like a garden,but in order for a marriage to work, both spouses need to tend to the Garden. I think that is just normal and should be understood.

 

In marriages people can get very lazy about tending to the garden and then they may be outraged when the other spouse also stops tending to the garden.

 

Like you, my wife was not outraged by the infidelity. She realized she was not pulling her weight in the marriage.

 

That is why our marriage has not only survived but thrived. I think it is important for people to know that a marriage can be much better after an infidelity. It is my hope that some people read our positive posts and are encouraged.

 

However, IMO, if people feel cheating is a deal breaker for their marriage that is okay, too.

 

For my part, just like you and your spouse. My spouse and I love each other despite both our failings.

 

 

What rubs people the wrong way isn't the idea that a marriage can be better after an affair, what rubs them the wrong way is the insistence that

(a) a bs is to blame for their spouse cheating

(b) cheating is okay so long as the bs doesn't find out

© people in other cultures cheat, so if I cheat, that's okay

(d) the failings in the marriage are 100% the fault of the bs

(e) it's okay to quite literally bully one's bs into accepting the blame for the affair

 

I think this is why many support post affair support groups for bs clearly state that they are for the bs, not the ws, as the bs needs time post a to heal

to quote at least one site ( Beyond Affairs Network, or BAN)

"BAN is NOT for those who have had affairs themselves. No Spouses"

 

btw, I looked into the Brechts's web pages. Some of it makes sense, some is pure bunk, ad a lot fo it is click bait.

[RecentChange]

Blame….

 

I think perhaps, why my relationship not only survived, but thrived after infidelity – was a lack of finger pointing and blame games.

 

When he cheated – he never said “you weren’t doing X, Y, and Z so I cheated, its your fault!” Rather, he honestly conveyed the unhappiness within himself that he had been hiding, his own confusions and destructive coping mechanisms. I never blamed him and made him a villain – I understood how and why it happened, my role in it happening and as long as he was ready and willing to make changes TOGETHER I was still in it.

 

Then years later…. When I wandered. Again, we didn’t play blame games. I took full responsibility for my actions, and actually pleaded that he not attempt to make this “his fault” or to blame himself in any way. He, like myself years earlier, recognized his role in our relationship, and its unhealthy state.

 

We never said hateful things to each other, instead we showed empathy. We shared in the pain we caused each other, but also appreciated the love that we have, which was stronger than the pain.

 

I know it may sound insane to some, but working through this. Finding love, trust, and forgiveness in the face of infidelity has really taught me something about unconditional love.

 

I don’t know if I would go as far to say that I am glad that these things happened – but I do feel confident saying that our relationship has been stronger, deeper, and more open as a result of overcoming it.

 

I will add…. Neither of us had what I would call a full blow “affair” – ie, a long term, really emotionally charged relationship / that included bad mouthing the spouses, professions of love etc – no more like “flings” – short term excitement, ego stroking, and sex.

[Zenstudent]

From this discussion as well as others, it's obvious to me, that there are three groups of people when it comes to infidelity (not as in agreed upon extramarital sex):

 

1. Those who think it's wrong

2. Those who think it's okay

3. Those who think it's wrong, but does it anyway because... XYZ

 

... and then there is of course those who believe that betrayal and dishonesty improves a relationship - they might fit into group 2 and 3 though.

 

I'm aware that group 1 is the minority, but boy I wish that somehow those in groups 2 and 3 could just date and mate each other - and let those in group 1 have a loving relationship with likeminded, full of peace and joy. It's a nice thought at least.

 

In answer to the OP, group 1 would say "no, there are no excuses", group two doesn't need an excuse, and group three would say "of course there are excuses - how many do you need to feel justified?"

 

I only remember very few who changed their position from groups 2-3 into group 1. More often you see people who used to stay loyal, change their position, when they realize that they are married to someone from 2 or 3.

[cocorico]

I must have been unclear since the logic got twisted, so let me rephrase. Lack of sex can be raised as a problem by the one who perceives it as a problem. It can be talked about and dealt

with. If no solution is found, you have the opportunity to leave.

 

This isn't the case when one spouse cheats. The offended partner can't voice it, can't deal with it and can't leave because of it - because they don't have the facts.

 

When you're deprived of sex, you know there's a problem, and it's within your powers to do something about it.

 

so - withholding sex - the "victim" perceived a problem, so can address it.

Infidelity - no one perceives a problem, and so...? Why the need to address it, if it's not perceived as a problem?

[cocorico]

From this discussion as well as others, it's obvious to me, that there are three groups of people when it comes to infidelity (not as in agreed upon extramarital sex):

 

1. Those who think it's wrong

2. Those who think it's okay

3. Those who think it's wrong, but does it anyway because... XYZ

 

4. Those who have not, and would not (as far as they are able to predict with confidence) do so themselves, but understand that some others have found themselves in a position where that seemed like the only / "least bad" option, and refuse to condemn them for that

5. Those who recognise that not everyone shares the same moral codes, and that what may not be OK for them might be OK for someone else

6. Those who thought it was OK enough to do themselves, but then got caught, and now thinks it's totally wrong for anyone, ever

7. Those who did it, felt uncomfortable, 'fessed up, addressed the issues and now think it's wrong and would never go there again

8. Those who think it's wrong for others, but they're a special snowflake who has had a really rough life, so deserve to live by different rules to mere mortals...

[Liam1]

so - withholding sex - the "victim" perceived a problem, so can address it.

Infidelity - no one perceives a problem, and so...? Why the need to address it, if it's not perceived as a problem?

 

Excellent point, Cocorico:

 

Also, once infidelity is revealed if the other so called loyal spouse feels it is too much to bother discussing it before leaving. They also have the choice to divorce.

 

I was fully prepared for the possibility that my wife might divorce me because of the affair.

 

I however was at the point where I no longer cared if she chose that option.

 

I wanted the marriage to work, so we both chose not to divorce. Had she refused to acknowledge her own failings and chosen divorce, I would have understood and accepted that.

[Liam1]

Blame….

 

I think perhaps, why my relationship not only survived, but thrived after infidelity – was a lack of finger pointing and blame games.

 

Ditto. My marriage is surviving and thriving and is a much better version of our marriage because BOTH of us were willing to acknowledge our failings and compromise to save the marriage.

 

 

We never said hateful things to each other, instead we showed empathy. We shared in the pain we caused each other, but also appreciated the love that we have, which was stronger than the pain.

Ditto. And, I feel it is important for other couples in reconciliation to understand the need for this type of behavior, if they want to salvage their marriage.

 

I know it may sound insane to some, but working through this. Finding love, trust, and forgiveness in the face of infidelity has really taught me something about unconditional love.

 

I don’t know if I would go as far to say that I am glad that these things happened – but I do feel confident saying that our relationship has been stronger, deeper, and more open as a result of overcoming it.

Again, Ditto, and well stated.

 

I will add…. Neither of us had what I would call a full blow “affair” – ie, a long term, really emotionally charged relationship / that included bad mouthing the spouses, professions of love etc – no more like “flings” – short term excitement, ego stroking, and sex.

Same here. I do think if the unfaithful spouse gives the "I love you but I am not in love with you" speech to the loyal spouse or if there was badmouthing of the loyal spouse to the AP, or if they claimed they loved the AP, it likely causes far greater damage.

[waterwoman]

One of the reasons I chose to stay after dday was because H never once blamed me. Not once. I was so distressed at the time that if he did try to put all the blame at me I would have been done. And even more heartbroken.

 

He didn't. We had a chance to get over the initial shock before the post-mortem was in full swing.

 

He did and said the right things and as time went by I was able to accept that there were things that were wrong that needed to be addressed. Mine as well as his. Mine, perhaps, in response to his and vice versa. In any long marriage I don't beleive it is ever as simple as 'he/she did that, so I did this!' It's far more like a long litany of minor hurts and resentments that you swallow down with varying degrees of success over the long years on both parts.

 

Addressing of pre-affair marital issues should happen as a natural result of the reconciliation process, not as a stick to beat the the other spouse with.

[NYWoman]

L2163

 

 

The truth is I cheated on my first husband for no good reason, and was determined not to do the same with the second.

First husband, never should have and should of with my second