Study: Men (and women) find thinner women more attractive

[xxoo]

 

 

There's only one thing worse than getting men's attention, and that's not getting men's attention.

 

But see, I'm married. I'm also close to the "ideal" BMI, per this study. I'm not going to change my body to be less attractive to random men, but what good does it do me to be attractive to them? I certainly don't care what they think.

 

If I were a different BMI/size, and my husband and I were both quite pleased with my shape, I would care just as little about the opinions of other men, research studies on male attraction, etc.

 

So, outside of ONE man, the attention or non attention of "men" in general is insignificant to me, except when the attention becomes rude and creepy.

[Jabron1]

Picking my nose would be far more rewarding than listening to this tripe.

 

Some of us tire of hearing how it's a constant drag to be pretty and get so much attention

 

Hamlet:

Madam, how you like this play?

 

Gertrude:

The lady protests too much, methinks.

[elaine567]

But see, I'm married. I'm also close to the "ideal" BMI, per this study. I'm not going to change my body to be less attractive to random men, but what good does it do me to be attractive to them? I certainly don't care what they think.

 

If I were a different BMI/size, and my husband and I were both quite pleased with my shape, I would care just as little about the opinions of other men, research studies on male attraction, etc.

 

So, outside of ONE man, the attention or non attention of "men" in general is insignificant to me, except when the attention becomes rude and creepy.

 

True.

"Male attention" is superfluous to those in relationships or to those who do not want a relationship.

"Male attention" is only pertinent to those who crave it as an ego trip perhaps, or those who are single and looking for a mate.

[Toodaloo]

Some of us tire of hearing how it's a constant drag to be pretty and get so much attention

 

Hamlet:

Madam, how you like this play?

 

Gertrude:

The lady protests too much, methinks.

 

I protest because I see far too many young men and women both on these boards and in real life starving themselves, mutilating their bodies into some grotesque form because they read tripe like this and think that being skinny is the be all and end all.

 

Its not.

 

I do not want the future of youngsters to be all about looks and the right swipe on tinder. Because its not. There is far more out there.

 

I do not go on about how pretty I am. I am realistic. I know that I am not everyones cup of tea. I also know that when I can be bothered I can turn heads. Its not my body nor my looks its my attitude that causes it.

 

The difference is that I do not value my worth on what strangers think of my picture.

[Els]

 

Some interesting findings:

1. Peak health occurs around BMI 23, so researchers expected peak attractiveness around BMI of 23-24.

 

2. Instead, all 3 racial groups rated the lowest BMI and body fat % to be the most attractive. This fell around a BMI of 19 and body fat of 20%. For example, that is a woman around 5'1 and 100 lbs, or 5'6 and 120 lbs.

 

I don't find this surprising - it's fairly well known that what the average person finds 'physically attractive' has everything to do with cultural norms and very little to do with health. This is demonstrated by perceptions of attractiveness varying widely across eras and cultures (I know the study polled several cultures, but they missed plenty, and I'm not just talking about body weight), whereas the actual indicators of health in homo sapiens have pretty much been the same for centuries.

 

BBC - Future - The myth of universal beauty

 

Fortunately, 'average person' does not necessarily mean 'all', and not everyone feels the same way. Also, it is probably a good idea to not let random strangers' perception of physical attractiveness dictate your self-worth (although I definitely understand that it's easier said than done).

 

I would say the same to short men as well.

[Kamille]

I read the study. The authors themselves refute the evolutionary perspective and suggest it could be cultural.

[Jabron1]

Also, it is probably a good idea to not let random strangers' perception of physical attractiveness dictate your self-worth (although I definitely understand that it's easier said than done).

 

Self-worth is a completely different thing. But, when dating, our worth to others becomes a major factor.

 

Hell, it's a factor in all walks of life. Dating, jobs, social circles, etc.

 

I don't find this surprising - it's fairly well known that what the average person finds 'physically attractive' has everything to do with cultural norms and very little to do with health.

 

It's a typical feminist frame to try and label 'society' as the reason behind everything. Because society can be changed, and manipulated - whereas biology cannot.

 

Even saw someone on here once claim that 'gender is a social construct'

 

BBC - Future - The myth of universal beauty

 

Ahh, the BBC. That same paragon of truth that had us going into Iraq, attempting to curry favour for invading Syria, and the same BBC that was proven to be biased towards keeping Scotland in the United Kingdom.

 

You can find a study to back up any agenda.

 

Personally, I'll prefer life experience as a resource point.

 

I also know that when I can be bothered I can turn heads. Its not my body nor my looks its my attitude that causes it.

 

And I know that I'd get a lot less dates if I put on a tonne of weight. That's one of the things I like about dating: you get a harsh dose of reality, and real time feedback. If forces people to live in the real world.

 

I seriously doubt that you'd turn any heads at 20 stone, regardless of attitude.

[Els]

 

It's a typical feminist frame to try and label 'society' as the reason behind everything. Because society can be changed, and manipulated - whereas biology cannot.

 

If you disagree with something, you are generally expected to provide actual points as rebuttal. "Feminist agenda, booooooo" is not generally considered a point among debaters with even the barest minimum level of intellect.

 

If it helps, this is the point you are expected to address:

This is demonstrated by perceptions of attractiveness varying widely across eras and cultures (I know the study polled several cultures, but they missed plenty, and I'm not just talking about body weight), whereas the actual indicators of health in homo sapiens have pretty much been the same for centuries.

 

Ahh, the BBC. That same paragon of truth that had us going into Iraq, attempting to curry favour for invading Syria, and the same BBC that was proven to be biased towards keeping Scotland in the United Kingdom.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_body_shape#Cultural_perceptions

 

But yes, of course, all of Wikipedia's contributors have a similar agenda I am sure. And all the sculptures and paintings of old were clearly faked by modern feminists trying to push this "agenda".

 

Personally, I'll prefer life experience as a resource point.

Certainly explains why you are pooh-poohing the life experiences of several women.

[serial muse]

 

Women dictate the male ideal of good looks, and men dictate the ideal of female good looks. I don't think I've ever heard any man dispute that. I have heard plenty of women dispute it though. It shows a complete disregard for reality.

 

Actually, if you read the study in question, they asked both men and women to rate women's looks. The question on the table, stemming from this research, is not whether men are dictating what's attractive; it is: what does society at large find attractive? And the surprising find here was that a slimmer body was found to be more attractive across ethnic and cultural lines, as well as across gender lines -- which is in contrast to conventional wisdom.

 

From there we're getting into the much more fraught arena of determining what's driving that, and I don't think the data really support your conclusions, if reality is the thing you're concerned with. The authors themselves suggest that this points to a convergence of societal viewpoints rather than any innate preferences of men or of different cultures. We are apparently homogenizing.

 

But this kind of theorizing -- specifically the kind you're doing -- is why studies like this are so fraught and frustrating. The data are the data, but people will twist them to say what they have really believed all along. No one likes to think that their strongly-felt preferences may have come from external sources, and many men in particular hold dear to the idea that women but not men are influenced by the media (which is silly and demonstrably untrue).

 

You are indeed influenced by images and messages that have been fed to you all your life. That's not feminism, I'm afraid. It's reality. Now whether that's behind the data in this particular study, I couldn't say, nor can anyone else. But it's just as likely as anything else.

[losangelena]

If you disagree with something, you are generally expected to provide actual points as rebuttal. "Feminist agenda, booooooo" is not generally considered a point among debaters with even the barest minimum level of intellect.

 

If it helps, this is the point you are expected to address:

This is demonstrated by perceptions of attractiveness varying widely across eras and cultures (I know the study polled several cultures, but they missed plenty, and I'm not just talking about body weight), whereas the actual indicators of health in homo sapiens have pretty much been the same for centuries.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_body_shape#Cultural_perceptions

 

But yes, of course, all of Wikipedia's contributors have a similar agenda I am sure. And all the sculptures and paintings of old were clearly faked by modern feminists trying to push this "agenda".

 

Certainly explains why you are pooh-poohing the life experiences of several women.

 

Was going to respond similarly, but won't. You've stated my thoughts exactly.

[Els]

I seriously doubt that you'd turn any heads at 20 stone, regardless of attitude.

 

20 stone is 280 lbs. Did you even bother to read the OP? The conversation here is about why a BMI of 23 was found less attractive by several participants despite being well within the healthy range. A BMI of 23 for most women is between 120lbs and 150 lbs. Not 280. Stop with the red herrings already.

[Toodaloo]

20 stone is 280 lbs. Did you even bother to read the OP? The conversation here is about why a BMI of 23 was found less attractive by several participants despite being well within the healthy range. A BMI of 23 for most women is between 120lbs and 150 lbs. Not 280. Stop with the red herrings already.

 

Even with the red herring I know a woman fairly well who is a UK size 30 and around 4ft11... She has at least 5 men in tow normally more... She must be near 20 stone if not over.

 

I am just using her as an example because She is one of the few people I know who are grossly over weight. She is still pretty though. She has pluck about her and guys seem to flock to her...

 

There are no rules...

[No_Go]

That's an exception of the rule. The idea in discussion is what humans find statistically more attractive.

 

Like fertility e.g.: everybody knows a woman that had a baby at 45, but statistically the fertility is higher under 35.

 

Even with the red herring I know a woman fairly well who is a UK size 30 and around 4ft11... She has at least 5 men in tow normally more... She must be near 20 stone if not over.

 

I am just using her as an example because She is one of the few people I know who are grossly over weight. She is still pretty though. She has pluck about her and guys seem to flock to her...

 

There are no rules...

[No_Go]

Every experiment that is well designed should change only one variable. The authors wanted to study the reaction to BMI, not e.g. eye color. That would be a separate experiment/study.

 

I asked because you seem to personalize it. My experiments were with bacteria, not humans, and still I'd personalize the outcome sometimes depending on my desires

 

This study just says that women with BMI 19 and men with BMI 24 are most attractive in comparison to people with different BMI. They don't look at the total package (taking pictures in stead of X-Rays) because it will defeat the purpose of the study (to look at BMI and BMI only).

 

And absolutely - BMI can be misleading for athletes and people with some body structures etc, but they are not studying that.

 

I have been all ends of the spectrum from hideously skinny to hideously fat.

 

I have NEVER had a problem attracting men. The right men yes, but that is another topic.

 

What I am saying is that is is completely ridiculous to base "attraction" on a few x rays. So many other factors come into play. So the whole "experiment" is fatally flawed from the outset.

 

Not all men are attracted to skinny beans just as not all men like women with a bit of meat on them for want of a better phrase. Just as some women like skinny men others love a bit of love handle...

 

THAT is REALITY.

 

You may as well run a study on which emoji you most want to have sex with...

[thefooloftheyear]

The good news here is that no matter the trends or studies, one can usually find what they are looking for, even if it goes against the conventional wisdom of the day or what "society" or some fringe group is trying to shove down the throats of people..

 

TFY

[jen1447]

Even with the red herring I know a woman fairly well who is a UK size 30 and around 4ft11... She has at least 5 men in tow normally more... She must be near 20 stone if not over.

 

I am just using her as an example because She is one of the few people I know who are grossly over weight. She is still pretty though. She has pluck about her and guys seem to flock to her...

 

There are no rules...

 

There's certainly a wide degree of intangibility to attraction. I'd think that's so obvious it's almost self-evident. It's why 280 lb. women do (amaze!) have partners too, among other shockers.

 

I don't find this surprising - it's fairly well known that what the average person finds 'physically attractive' has everything to do with cultural norms and very little to do with health. This is demonstrated by perceptions of attractiveness varying widely across eras and cultures (I know the study polled several cultures, but they missed plenty, and I'm not just talking about body weight), whereas the actual indicators of health in homo sapiens have pretty much been the same for centuries.

 

Isn't the hip-waist ratio thing more biology-oriented and somewhat universal tho Els? As opposed to say liking blue eyes or whatever.

 

 

As to the 'men define beauty in women' thing, setting aside the reality of homosexuality and bisexuality for the moment lol (and the large portions of the population who apparently have no impact on defining beauty ), I actually find the notion that women define women's beauty due to competition more compelling. Tho of course either notion that an entire gender is solely responsible for a cultural aesthetic or biological imperative is silly.

[losangelena]

The good news here is that no matter the trends or studies, one can usually find what they are looking for, even if it goes against the conventional wisdom of the day or what "society" or some fringe group is trying to shove down the throats of people..

 

TFY

 

Ain't that the truth.

[Jabron1]

The data are the data, but people will twist them to say what they have really believed all along.

 

I completely disregarded this study (and most studies) as a waste of time.

 

20 stone is 280 lbs. Did you even bother to read the OP?

 

Was responding to someone's post - not this study.

 

this is the point you are expected to address:

 

You don't get to dictate what I choose to address.

 

You can fill the TV screens with obese people, and force-feed the idea that 'big is beautiful'. But human competition will always be a factor. The men and women that take care of themselves will always be more desired.

 

Men dictate the ideal of female good looks and vice versa. The media take that ideal and use it to attract men and women to products, TV shows, etc.

 

Attraction isn't a choice.

[serial muse]

I completely disregarded this study (and most studies) as a waste of time.

 

 

 

Was responding to someone's post - not this study.

 

 

 

You don't get to dictate what I choose to address.

 

You can fill the TV screens with obese people, and force-feed the idea that 'big is beautiful'. But human competition will always be a factor. The men and women that take care of themselves will always be more desired.

 

Men dictate the ideal of female good looks and vice versa. The media take that ideal and use it to attract men and women to products, TV shows, etc.

 

Attraction isn't a choice.

 

OK, you've got your opinion and you're sticking to it, I guess. But then, you don't get to make pronouncements and expect other people to believe them just because you do. It really doesn't matter how firmly you state them as fact; facts they are not and facts they will never be.

 

Anyhoo. Some of us actually thought it was worth talking about the study rather than regurtitating the same old same old talking points.

[mike_89]

The good news here is that no matter the trends or studies, one can usually find what they are looking for, even if it goes against the conventional wisdom of the day or what "society" or some fringe group is trying to shove down the throats of people..

Yup. The physical attractiveness of one person is only one part of the equation, other factors have a major influence as well (such as the attractiveness of the other person, as people generally end up with persons who are about as attractive as they themselves are, self-esteem, promiscuity, status, money, ....).

[elaine567]

I don't believe if you filled the TV screens with fat people, everyone would overnight change their opinion, but if you subtly introduced the idea that fatter was more desirable, higher class, and something to aspire to, then perceptions would change.

Persuading people that fat is beautiful is a lot easier I would guess than persuading the population to diet and keep fit. People in general love cheesecake and obesity rates are still rising...

If you filled the media with "thicker" actresses and models very slowly, drip, drip drip... then I believe that there would be shift in the perception of "beauty" after a few years, a few decades perhaps.

Edited March 23, 2016 by elaine567

[Jabron1]

I don't believe if you filled the TV screens with fat people, everyone would overnight change their opinion, but if you subtly introduced the idea that fatter was more desirable, higher class, and something to aspire to, then perceptions would change.

Persuading people that fat is beautiful is a lot easier I would guess than persuading the population to diet and keep fit. People in general love cheesecake and obesity rates are still rising...

If you filled the media with "thicker" actresses and models very slowly, drip, drip drip... then I believe that there would be shift in the perception of "beauty" after a few years, a few decades perhaps.

 

I'm all for it.

 

Those of us who have some standards, and aren't so easily led will have more options than ever

[Imported]

 

You don't get to dictate what I choose to address.

 

You can fill the TV screens with obese people, and force-feed the idea that 'big is beautiful'. But human competition will always be a factor. The men and women that take care of themselves will always be more desired.

 

Men dictate the ideal of female good looks and vice versa. The media take that ideal and use it to attract men and women to products, TV shows, etc.

 

Attraction isn't a choice.

 

Attraction is subjective dude. Well, what I mean is if a 280lbs women is being pursued by a few men, you can probably lay pretty good odds that these men are unable to do much better than a 280lbs women because of their own weight issues, their lack of success for life in general or they are really socially awkward and are aiming low.

[thefooloftheyear]

I don't believe if you filled the TV screens with fat people, everyone would overnight change their opinion, but if you subtly introduced the idea that fatter was more desirable, higher class, and something to aspire to, then perceptions would change.

Persuading people that fat is beautiful is a lot easier I would guess than persuading the population to diet and keep fit. People in general love cheesecake and obesity rates are still rising...

If you filled the media with "thicker" actresses and models very slowly, drip, drip drip... then I believe that there would be shift in the perception of "beauty" after a few years, a few decades perhaps.

 

 

While this is actually happening(maybe on a subtle level) for women, my question is why is there not the same type of "slack" being afforded to men?

 

Seems to me that the standard for men seems the same...No one is starting any movement for acceptance of moobs and double chins on men, and the whole "dad bod" thing is just kind of a joke really......

 

TFY

[jen1447]

While this is actually happening(maybe on a subtle level) for women, my question is why is there not the same type of "slack" being afforded to men?

 

Seems to me that the standard for men seems the same...No one is starting any movement for acceptance of moobs and double chins on men, and the whole "dad bod" thing is just kind of a joke really......

 

TFY

 

I think bc historically women have been the ones moreso judged first by their bodies, and men by their accomplishments or success. Not saying it's right or wrong or femi-commenting, just answering.

 

btw I agree that the social physical norm for women has changed substantially with the big butts and 'thickness' pride groundswells of the last couple decades.