My brother's mid-life crisis [and affair]

[Whoknew30]

My stance is I refuse to meet with her. My brother wanted for us to have lunch together and I refused. Told him I would NOT be a part of it. There's nothing I could tell this woman to desuade her from not seeking out my brother. My brother is THE responsible party here.

 

Agreed but you asked for advice & if speaking to him isn't working & you don't want to try with her. My advice is not to even let him talk about to you. Let him figure it out himself then. All you can do, until your SIL catches him or he really ends it.

[Gigi2015]

then you are contributing to the gaslighting. and that is abusive Gigi. please don't continue that any longer.

 

 

Yes and therein lies my conflict...I love my brother. I don't believe this is what he's all about. I think he's confused but--I think he's beginning to see the light. I call him out when he says things about my SIL...when he's re-writing marital history. It's like he's all of a sudden a teenager and my SIL becomes his mom(interfering with his good time). I feel that this is a once in a lifetime screw up for my brother....I don't want for it to ruin his life or my SIL's life....it's all so STUPID and classic mid-life crisis...my brother is at least acknowledging and recognizing traits this OW has that he doesn't like. He may be coming out of affair fog. I keep suggesting IC and MC. I don't want for him to throw away a good life .

[Whoknew30]

having an affair is not a mistake. Its a choice. a poor one.

deciding not to have someone in your life because they are making poor choices is called boundaries. And its the healthy way of establishing and honoring your own values.[/quote

 

So if one of your kids ever has an affair, you'll follow your own advice & tell their spouse? You'll cut them off to keep your boundaries & morality?

[S2B]

She worked and worked to support Gina detoxify home en while he was in jail...

And he repays her by cheating on her?

 

And you call him a good guy? What is good about his behavior? I'd like to understand this part.

[Gigi2015]

Agreed but you asked for advice & if speaking to him isn't working & you don't want to try with her. My advice is not to even let him talk about to you. Let him figure it out himself then. All you can do, until your SIL catches him or he really ends it.

 

You're right of course...but-- I feel I may be the only reasonable soundboard my brother is accessing. If I really thought he was simply a detestable cake eater I wouldn't be trying to help. I'm trying to get him to IC BEFORE he self- destructs.

[dreamingoftigers]

No...the OW is a person I don't want to even entairtaim having a relationship with. She's been married numerous times, has children from numerous marriages, and still has a husband who takes care of her and HER children financially( although she's cheating on him) She is nothing special. She's a drunk with huge fake knockers....and not even as pretty as my SIL.but 8 years younger...I seriously don't need to talk to this person. I don't give my brother advice. Simply ask questions that he has to answer to himself...as to maybe provide clarity.

 

You could send your SIL an anonymous clue.

[Whoknew30]

You're right of course...but-- I feel I may be the only reasonable soundboard my brother is accessing. If I really thought he was simply a detestable cake eater I wouldn't be trying to help. I'm trying to get him to IC BEFORE he self- destructs.

 

I wouldn't ever give up on my brother either...pretty much no family member. Charity starts at home in my opinion & if I could help without destroying my sil in the process, I would to. You love & want the best for both of them in their marriage...totally get it.

 

I think some people just aren't that close to their siblings. Even when my brother screws up, I love & want the best for him.

[Gigi2015]

She worked and worked to support Gina detoxify home en while he was in jail...

And he repays her by cheating on her?

 

And you call him a good guy? What is good about his behavior? I'd like to understand this part.

 

No...it's not ok...I also know he was driven in his accomplishments to make her proud. He furthered his education and career to honor her....I know it sounds weird. He had never cheated...not that that gives him a free-pass. I simply saying he got lost somewhere along the way....and it seems he's trying to find his way back....and I don't want him to lose the true love of his life...he's told me how he feels about her(his wife).

[dreamingoftigers]

It's her brother. She loves him, she's not cutting him or sister Inlaw out. Do you follow this advice of cutting everyone out that makes mistakes? Your wife mistakes was against you, completely understand but you go cutting people out bc of bad choices you'll see one day when you've made a bad choice/mistake no one will be there for you. IMO, it's very lonely being perfect.

 

It's not about "perfect."

 

How judgmental and condescending.

 

It's about being an abusive arsehole.

 

When I see someone being an abusive arsehole, with no intention to change that, I disassociate from them.

 

I'm not going to sit around doing mental gymnastics to be supportive of their abusive self. Not a chance.

 

Frankly, I've rarely seen this type of personality keep their abuse limited to one person. It has a fallout on everyone around them. See how the brother treating his wife like garbage even affects his sister? What crap.

 

I have not regretted removing an active abuser / addict from my life, ever.

 

I have a very abusive Uncle for instance. I became well aware of how he treated his children. And I don't want to play nice and sit across from him at a BBQ yakking about how he's such a great "this and that." He isn't. And his children suffer from his abusive Narcissism. If he stopped taking a massive dump on his family, and we had been closer, then that's something worth reviewing.

 

Otherwise, not my circus, not my monkeys.

[dreamingoftigers]

I wouldn't ever give up on my brother either...pretty much no family member. Charity starts at home in my opinion & if I could help without destroying my sil in the process, I would to. You love & want the best for both of them in their marriage...totally get it.

 

I think some people just aren't that close to their siblings. Even when my brother screws up, I love & want the best for him.

 

Part of loving people and wanting the best for them is not enabling them.

 

Being a support during a time of duress is a lot different than being part of a conspiracy against an abused partner.

[harrybrown]

Before this blows up, you should try to get your brother to stop all contact with his AP and get tested for stds.

 

Fooling around with a married woman could get your brother killed by an angry husband.

 

Let the AP's husband know about the A.

 

That should stop it.

[dreamingoftigers]

No...it's not ok...I also know he was driven in his accomplishments to make her proud. He furthered his education and career to honor her....I know it sounds weird. He had never cheated...not that that gives him a free-pass. I simply saying he got lost somewhere along the way....and it seems he's trying to find his way back....and I don't want him to lose the true love of his life...he's told me how he feels about her(his wife).

 

Until he didn't. Then he abused his wife and ran off with OW.

 

I feel very bad for your SIL, really trying etc. And getting tossed away for someone so conniving and trashy.

 

I can't imagine what level of "confusion" would cause that and I sincerely hope she is gifted with the truth.

[Gigi2015]

You could send your SIL an anonymous clue.

 

Yes I could....but--I'm afraid to cause colossal damage. So this is the thing: my brother went NC with OW for 6 weeks! He had been getting a sanitized version of her due to limited contact and NATURE of contact. I think he's coming out of affair fog. I'm trying to convince him of going to IC and MC....where he may be able to confess and repair things in a less volatile environment. If this doesn't resolve and I see my SIL continuing to receive damage and despair, I do do believe myself capable of exposing him. But--I'm afraid to interject too soon as he seems to be waking up

[katielee]

I would cut off my own child, yes, in order not to be an accomplice in abusing someone else. That's is what is going on here - abuse and enabling. I agree with dreamingoftigers.

[Whoknew30]

It's not about "perfect."

 

How judgmental and condescending.

 

It's about being an abusive arsehole.

 

When I see someone being an abusive arsehole, with no intention to change that, I disassociate from them.

 

I'm not going to sit around doing mental gymnastics to be supportive of their abusive self. Not a chance.

 

Frankly, I've rarely seen this type of personality keep their abuse limited to one person. It has a fallout on everyone around them. See how the brother treating his wife like garbage even affects his sister? What crap.

 

I have not regretted removing an active abuser / addict from my life, ever.

 

I have a very abusive Uncle for instance. I became well aware of how he treated his children. And I don't want to play nice and sit across from him at a BBQ yakking about how he's such a great "this and that." He isn't. And his children suffer from his abusive Narcissism. If he stopped taking a massive dump on his family, and we had been closer, then that's something worth reviewing.

 

Otherwise, not my circus, not my monkeys.

 

 

Im not pretending to know her brothers whole history, like others are. He's not making the right choices now but that doesn't mean he's been some awful person his whole life & IMO, to make that assessment from one post, is being EXTREMELY judgmental. To tell people to just cut off family members from one post about infidelity is IMO a way over reaction. He's not showing much of any different actions that most WS show.

 

If you don't want to talk to your uncle fine, but that's not a sibling you've lived your whole life with.

[Whoknew30]

I would cut off my own child, yes, in order not to be an accomplice in abusing someone else. That's is what is going on here - abuse and enabling. I agree with dreamingoftigers.

 

You'd cut off your own kid for a bad choice. Yet, you don't cut out your H that has had multiple A. See I don't understand giving advice one doesn't flow themselves. So your H means more than your kids?

 

We're just extremely different.

[katielee]

You'd cut off your own kid for a bad choice. Yet, you don't cut out your H that has had multiple A. See I don't understand giving advice one doesn't flow themselves. So your H means more than your kids?

 

We're just extremely different.

 

 

yep we're different. and once my child stopped the abusive behavior they would be back in my life... same as husband was after I left him for a while.

[dreamingoftigers]

having an affair is not a mistake. Its a choice. a poor one.

deciding not to have someone in your life because they are making poor choices is called boundaries. And its the healthy way of establishing and honoring your own values.

 

So if one of your kids ever has an affair, you'll follow your own advice & tell their spouse? You'll cut them off to keep your boundaries & morality?

 

If my son or daughter is outright abusing their spouse, I have no problem making it very clear that I have major issues with that.

 

I may advise their spouse on how to get out.

Edited February 1, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Gigi2015]

Until he didn't. Then he abused his wife and ran off with OW.

 

I feel very bad for your SIL, really trying etc. And getting tossed away for someone so conniving and trashy.

 

I can't imagine what level of "confusion" would cause that and I sincerely hope she is gifted with the truth.

 

This is the part that makes me sick: So his business diners doubled(dates with OW). Whenever SIL would question what was going on, he'd say she was being controlling and insecure---when I called out my brother he said "sure--but she doesn't really know for sure...she's simply trying to control me'.

 

She asked him to say a prayer for their marriage...He became angry and called her manipulative.

 

She found entries about a gophone....he erased the ones that pointed out it was a personal account....she found coffee stirrers on the passenger seat's door cubby--he said he threw them there(from passenger seat, as if it it didn't make sense to pomace them on his side). He picked fights and went and spend the night at a hotel, shut phone off and didn't communicate.

[Whoknew30]

yep we're different. and once my child stopped the abusive behavior they would be back in my life... same as husband was after I left him for a while.

 

Id never cut my kids off for a bad choice. If it was over & over again maybe it'd be different but for an A. Never. Especially after I had one & was never cut off from anyone. That wouldn't have helped it at all. It would have built resentment towards my family.

[Gigi2015]

 

If my son or daughter is outright abusing their spouse, I have no problem making it very clear that I have major issues with that.

 

I may advise their spouse on how to get out.

 

He seems to be making progress....he went NC. I'm afraid to ruin things. I think he's being a horrible jerk...yep...I told him that...but---I think he's coming around. I wish I didn't know anything but I do. The worst part

[katielee]

This is the part that makes me sick: So his business diners doubled(dates with OW). Whenever SIL would question what was going on, he'd say she was being controlling and insecure---when I called out my brother he said "sure--but she doesn't really know for sure...she's simply trying to control me'.

 

She asked him to say a prayer for their marriage...He became angry and called her manipulative.

 

She found entries about a gophone....he erased the ones that pointed out it was a personal account....she found coffee stirrers on the passenger seat's door cubby--he said he threw them there(from passenger seat, as if it it didn't make sense to pomace them on his side). He picked fights and went and spend the night at a hotel, shut phone off and didn't communicate.

 

oh hon - this is NOT good. He's really being cruel.

[dreamingoftigers]

Im not pretending to know her brothers whole history, like others are. He's not making the right choices now but that doesn't mean he's been some awful person his whole life & IMO, to make that assessment from one post, is being EXTREMELY judgmental. To tell people to just cut off family members from one post about infidelity is IMO a way over reaction. He's not showing much of any different actions that most WS show.

 

If you don't want to talk to your uncle fine, but that's not a sibling you've lived your whole life with.

 

My siblings are both autistic.

 

So no, I somewhat lack the reference.

 

Nor am I telling her she "has to" ( Jesus).

 

However, AT THIS POINT IN TIME, not "forever" he is abusing his wife.

 

And that being the case, I would cut him out.

 

That's not being "judgmental" that's being rational.

I don't associate with abusers.

 

If they stop and take stock, that becomes a different story.

 

I don't associate with my father (unless it involves my mother, I.E. her birthday party) and since he's actually an abuser that lost control of me years ago, he doesn't associate with me. My life isn't this vast gulf of loneliness. It's peaceful. I have people that know about love and respect around me.

 

I don't knock "forgiveness" and if my father ever STOPPED spreading trash about myself and my husband, and stopped degrading my mother in front of her friends (I.e. at her birthday party) AND if he became even the least bit fun to associate with, without incurring enough baggage for three therapy sessions, I'd consider associating with him again.

 

Until then, no. It was hard enough to get away from someone willing to strangle me in an attempt to to try to literally kill me. And that's what happens when you follow abusers down the rabbit hole.

 

The more you get drawn into their garbage, the more detrimental to your life it becomes.

 

If OP hadn't been so close to her brother when he started abusing his wife emotionally and Verbally, she would feel like she has to carry this nasty secret from SIL. she wouldn't have to be turning down lunch dates with OW. She would have to feel in a position to "protect her brother" from his own disregard for his family. But she was, and he's taken license to treat hos wife like garbage and try to drag his sister into it. The closer you get to someone actively abusing someone else, the nastier things get.

 

My life experience, 110%.

 

Contrary to what many end up thinking and feeling, there's more to life than working up tons of empathy for someone who abuses others. What about empathy for the actual victim? That matters more IMHO. My first act of support would be to not support the abuser. And the abuser in my case would not be able to hide behind being "family" because its still wrong to abuse.

 

It isn't even all about the abuser. It's about self-preservation.

[katielee]

every time he chooses to gaslight her and throw her off track he IS doing it again and again. It's serial abuse. And this must be so hard for the OP to watch. I really feel for you.

[Whoknew30]

Part of loving people and wanting the best for them is not enabling them.

 

Being a support during a time of duress is a lot different than being part of a conspiracy against an abused partner.

 

He's treating her like crap for sure & definitely being a jerk. She's putting up with it though. You can't help someone that doesn't want to help themselves. Abusers can't abuse someone that won't allow it. I would say why are you putting up with it. My brother had a girlfriend that used to call me & say he was being a jerk all the time & he was. He was seeing other girls & she was always upset, I told him he was wrong but I also told her, you have a choice to leave. 6 years later she still comes running back!

 

I'm not going to stop talking to him when she keeps dealing with it. Then my brother & I would have a strained relationship over a person who truly enables it.

 

No one even saying how SIL continues to enable Jos behavior more than his sister.