Limitless159 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Yes not gender biased. Its hard for both sides. I think if you live downtown in a big city it makes finding someone easier. More people, and more professional people available. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Rejected Rosebud Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 I think you just need to focus on why you are only attracting - or attracted TO - the types of women on your list. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Rejected Rosebud Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 I ask because girls are always telling me "why do you date beneath you? You have a business, house, cars, financial security, no bad habits, tall, good looking, no debt" etc. I don't know if they realize the idea of "self sufficient" women almost seems to be a myth. Are all these girl friends of yours total losers like the girls you choose to date are??:( So it's easy to get a gf, but it just seems you either have to totally take care of them financially, or deal with a lot of other more serious issues. No, all you have to do is stop going out with messed up girls. From my point of view it's really obvious that you have some kind of REASON to "date beneath you." We are younger than you but my friends and family don't even have ANY people like the ones you are talking about. You have to actively be looking for it. One thing - your attitude about women is really standing in your way. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
solway86 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 There are such people who are single, but it takes time and effort - and a bit of networking - to meet them. However, many of these self-sufficient women, will have "baggage", i.e. be divorced and have either teenage or grown-up children, or a very young child and have other life issues to deal with (as I believe the protagonist of the new film Joy which stars Jennifer Lawrence, is, or was). Link to post Share on other sites
MissBee Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 (edited) I am divorced and 38. I own a business and do well for myself. I have many single guy friends in my same position, who are also self sufficient, good looking, and we all have dating/relationship horror stories. Now one would think that in this day and age there would also be tons of single self sufficient women looking to meet a similar guy. But where are they? These are some of the things I encounter. A. Daddies girl. Dad still supports her into her 30's. I dated a girl who couldn't get more serious because dad would take away her things if she moved in with or married a guy. B. The in debt girl. She has a career, job, nice clothes. But she is 200k in debt and under enormous stress. College loans, credit cards. Etc C. Girl who lives off men. May have been married before, stayed home, and wants the same again. And quickly. Never earned a dime and doesn't appreciate being taken care of anyway. Just a guys duty. Or they just want to move in quickly and you take care of them. D. The sugar baby. Younger girl who wants to date you and be "taken care of" E. The girl who can't manage money. Makes decent money but throws it away on ridiculous things. Soon throws yours away. Always a financial crisis. F. The girl who can't hold a job. Every two weeks she starts a new job, loves it, then quits and asks to borrow money. So when I tell friends about the girls I date, if they are girls, they laugh and tell me I meet the wrong ones. But if I look at their lives, they fit into one of the above classifications as well. Hahaha So do they exist? That self sufficient well balanced egalitarian female who just wants to be loved? In your list, I think two of these people are being wrongly classified as not self-sufficient. If you want someone with no college loans or grad school loans, you will likely have to find some girl who was fortunate enough to have parents who paid for all her schooling (which ironically, you also seem not thrilled about), but likely self-sufficient women would have had to pay for their schooling in some part and will have debt for that reason. For me, I don't see how that impedes your dating unless they are asking you to pay back their loans. Likewise, the woman who makes money but spends it on things you find ridiculous...is she asking you to pay for her stuff? If not, then she's self sufficient, even if she's not spending money in the way you would. I would agree that the rest are not self-sufficient, but people who have careers and loans or debt or people who have careers but spend on things you wouldn't, I don't see that as not being self-sufficient. Maybe you have different "money-styles" which is fair to say and fair to want someone with similar ideas about money as you, but I don't think it's not self-sufficient. In any event, I don't think there is a special place to meet who you're looking for, but perhaps events in your field or professional networking mixer events. IMO though, you may need to reevaluate what you really mean by self-sufficient. For me, a self-sufficient person is one who pays their own bills, can afford their lifestyle, has a career and ambitions and isn't expecting that I should support them financially, this person may have some debt from school or some credit cards but for the most part can pay them and isn't up to their eyeballs swimming in it to the point that they can't really live a normal life. I'm not going to not date a guy because he has loans from college or med school or law school, that's absurd to me. I think those are smart loans and were obviously for a reasonable end. If we're getting married then of course things like our credit scores and so on become important, but as we're dating I don't think one should be evaluating the other's college debt, car note etc. Besides from obvious mismanagement of money where they cannot pay their bills or things like that, in dating, I don't even know too much about the finances of my SOs because I had no reason to, as they didn't ask me for money and seemed to be able to pay for stuff just fine...and that was fine for me in terms of just the category of self-sufficient. Now whether they are good with money is another thing, but self-sufficient, yes, they are. Edited January 19, 2016 by MissBee 2 Link to post Share on other sites
SincereOnlineGuy Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 I am divorced and 38. Where to meet single self sufficient women? Do they exist? Of course they 'exist', but, as they are single, self-sufficient women, they have neither an interest in meeting you, nor a need to meet you. You'd have done very well in 1937. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author oregon0011 Posted January 19, 2016 Author Share Posted January 19, 2016 Well, my male friends are business owners. And make very good money. The women we come across are from all walks of life. I live in a major city. I met them on the internet, grocery store, gas station, bar etc. I simply have not met any self sufficient women. And no, you don't need massive debt to go to college lol. That's a choice. Neither do you need credit card debt. Another choice. And I'm not talking about 10k. I have met many girls who are up to 6 figures in just credit card and college debt. Until I see different, I feel the "modern self sufficient" woman is largely a media myth. Link to post Share on other sites
No_Go Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 You probably do not read all the posts? I can say EXACTLY the same for the dudes that I have dated but still do not generalize for your gender as a whole. In 3 relationships that I had 2 of the dudes I supported 80-100%, the current one is getting more or less equal to me but I put effort in it. Still I don't say all men are mooches.... Btw from my girl friends there are more than 3-4 with house husbands - talking healthy men 30-40 yo staying home to take care of their kids and houses. How would you comment on that? Well, my male friends are business owners. And make very good money. The women we come across are from all walks of life. I live in a major city. I met them on the internet, grocery store, gas station, bar etc. I simply have not met any self sufficient women. And no, you don't need massive debt to go to college lol. That's a choice. Neither do you need credit card debt. Another choice. And I'm not talking about 10k. I have met many girls who are up to 6 figures in just credit card and college debt. Until I see different, I feel the "modern self sufficient" woman is largely a media myth. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author oregon0011 Posted January 19, 2016 Author Share Posted January 19, 2016 You probably do not read all the posts? I can say EXACTLY the same for the dudes that I have dated but still do not generalize for your gender as a whole. In 3 relationships that I had 2 of the dudes I supported 80-100%, the current one is getting more or less equal to me but I put effort in it. Still I don't say all men are mooches.... Btw from my girl friends there are more than 3-4 with house husbands - talking healthy men 30-40 yo staying home to take care of their kids and houses. How would you comment on that? my friend was telling me pit bulls bite people. And I had to disagree because I have a friend that goes around biting pit bulls!!! So I tend to ignore threads hearing about women who choose to support men. It is odd and unnatural, and seems to be co dependent. Link to post Share on other sites
Rejected Rosebud Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Until I see different, I feel the "modern self sufficient" woman is largely a media myth. You're nearly 40, you probably have lots of married friends - are they ALL married to moochers and bimbos? Are ALL your female friends moochers and bimbos? You really don't know ANY women with good careers and incomes, home owners, business owners?? Most women in their late 30's are through paying off their student loan debt but even if she does have some, if she's self sufficient she's taking care of it and it doesn't have to be any business of yours at all. Seriously. Since hardly anybody on this thread of yours even KNOWS women like that, rather than calling us all a "media myth" :rolleyes: why not take a good honest look at yourself. You are obviously choosing this type of woman over other types. Maybe you feel threatened by self sufficient women and subconsciously steer towards women ("girls" as you call them) that you can feel superior to. :confused: Maybe? If you live in a major city in Oregon and are dating within your age group, or even a decade younger, you are surrounded by self sufficient women. Everywhere! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
No_Go Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Well you got it then!! Good luck getting used and abused with by not self sufficient women because you obviously PREFER these So on one side woman supporting a man is "odd and unnatural", then your ladies-mooches don't do it for you as well... Go figure out what you're looking for You made my day, thanks my friend was telling me pit bulls bite people. And I had to disagree because I have a friend that goes around biting pit bulls!!! So I tend to ignore threads hearing about women who choose to support men. It is odd and unnatural, and seems to be co dependent. Link to post Share on other sites
No_Go Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Nah, for OP financially stable women are "odd and codependent"... See his response to me. He IS looking for dumb bimbos and when he receives a response from a woman not matching his template, he is in denial You're nearly 40, you probably have lots of married friends - are they ALL married to moochers and bimbos? Are ALL your female friends moochers and bimbos? You really don't know ANY women with good careers and incomes, home owners, business owners?? Most women in their late 30's are through paying off their student loan debt but even if she does have some, if she's self sufficient she's taking care of it and it doesn't have to be any business of yours at all. Seriously. Since hardly anybody on this thread of yours even KNOWS women like that, rather than calling us all a "media myth" :rolleyes: why not take a good honest look at yourself. You are obviously choosing this type of woman over other types. Maybe you feel threatened by self sufficient women and subconsciously steer towards women ("girls" as you call them) that you can feel superior to. :confused: Maybe? If you live in a major city in Oregon and are dating within your age group, or even a decade younger, you are surrounded by self sufficient women. Everywhere! 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Author oregon0011 Posted January 19, 2016 Author Share Posted January 19, 2016 (edited) Nah, for OP financially stable women are "odd and codependent"... See his response to me. He IS looking for dumb bimbos and when he receives a response from a woman not matching his template, he is in denial Ummmm. Yeah if you are a woman and have to support a man 100% that wreaks of desperation. It is a rarity. I mean is he a drug user? Alcoholic? Felon? I don't know what percentage of women do this, but I am guessing it is quite low You are right though. The women who do provide usually pick the above type of men to do so for Edited January 19, 2016 by oregon0011 Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Yea, I think women that are open to it are in the minority. I still believe most women rely on a friend or family member setting them up with "this great guy I know" and online dating, rather than being approached randomly in public. Yup - that's me to a tee. And as it so happens, I was set up with my husband by mutual friends Link to post Share on other sites
No_Go Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Eh OP, it really doesn't ... More like a bad picker because I was focused on my education and career and haven't dated at all until I reached my late 20s. The dude that I supported 100% presented himself as a tech entrepreneur and quickly made me sign a lease with him because he "loved me so much" yes, he turned to be alcoholic, ex-convict and what not, but hiding it quite well initially (background search showed nothing because he uses his middle name). The dude I supported 80% was my first everything, and lost his business a week before we met... So I thought to give him a hand, because he went through quite an ordeal but was an awesome human in my opinion back then. See, i think you have a similar problem... I'm sorry if I overreacted in my previous post but it is quite a sensitive topic for me. Ummmm. Yeah if you are a woman and have to support a man 100% that wreaks of desperation. It is a rarity. I mean is he a drug user? Alcoholic? Felon? I don't know what percentage of women do this, but I am guessing it is quite low You are right though. The women who do provide usually pick the above type of men to do so for Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 I So do they exist? That self sufficient well balanced egalitarian female who just wants to be loved? Of course they do. You could rule out some of the women you describe by asking the right questions before you take them out. Ask how long they have been on their job, what are their future goals, what was their last relationship like, why did they split, etc. You can ask enough questions to find out what type they are before you get involved with them. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BlueIris Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Odd and unnatural? In 40% of families with children in the US women are either the sole or primary earner. And that’s just families with minor children. Households without children, such as many single people, aren’t included and they’re likely majority self-supporting. So your experience is actually atypical in general. Rather than argue, why not be glad that that's true? You’re attracting and attracted to exactly the women you perceive and accept- dependent women. It might also be that you only perceive women who glom on out of need and you view self-sufficient balanced women as standoffish or too slow because they don't latch on quickly and they assess you as much as you assess them. It's worth thinking about if you truly want this to change for you. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
kidm Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 B. The in debt girl. She has a career, job, nice clothes. But she is 200k in debt and under enormous stress. College loans, credit cards. Etc. Debt is not a bad thing if the person can manage it. I know several girls (including my sister- sorry she's taken) with JD, MBAs, MDs with six figure debt but in the 1-3% income bracket at a young age (mid 20s-early to mid 30s). Great if you can find someone who was able to fund their schooling without loans but some people take out loans and pay them back responsibly. Link to post Share on other sites
Author oregon0011 Posted January 19, 2016 Author Share Posted January 19, 2016 Odd and unnatural? In 40% of families with children in the US women are either the sole or primary earner. And that’s just families with minor children. Households without children, such as many single people, aren’t included and they’re likely majority self-supporting. So your experience is actually atypical in general. Rather than argue, why not be glad that that's true? You’re attracting and attracted to exactly the women you perceive and accept- dependent women. It might also be that you only perceive women who glom on out of need and you view self-sufficient balanced women as standoffish or too slow because they don't latch on quickly and they assess you as much as you assess them. It's worth thinking about if you truly want this to change for you. Yeah. No idea about those stats lol. Unless you are including single mom households. Link please Link to post Share on other sites
Author oregon0011 Posted January 19, 2016 Author Share Posted January 19, 2016 B. The in debt girl. She has a career, job, nice clothes. But she is 200k in debt and under enormous stress. College loans, credit cards. Etc. Debt is not a bad thing if the person can manage it. I know several girls (including my sister- sorry she's taken) with JD, MBAs, MDs with six figure debt but in the 1-3% income bracket at a young age (mid 20s-early to mid 30s). Great if you can find someone who was able to fund their schooling without loans but some people take out loans and pay them back responsibly. No. I mean the type making 30k a year. Not high earning doctors, dentists, lawyers. Link to post Share on other sites
lino Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Your OP is almost spot on. Not long ago there was a woman on here claiming that she was in the top earning percentile bracket in the USA yet still demanded men paid everything on the dates she went on It is amazing how little women want to contribute to a relationship financially even in 2016. They'll have no problem blowing thousands of dollars on rubbish like a hand bag or cocaine but don't dare ask them to pitch in $30 for a meal! Where I live, housing prices are 10x the annual salary and rents are just as high. University fees are high too. Short of an inheritance, there is no way a 38yo person can have an education and live independently and not be struggling with debt. Unless of course mummy and daddy paid for their education and housing - which then puts them into another of your categories. I'm no expert on the American tertiary education system but I'm pretty sure it's a lot tougher than ours is. I don't think they have an equivalent of HECS (or whatever it's called these days) there. I don't know many 38 year olds who are overcome with debt. Also, if the 67 in your screen name is your birth year, wouldn't uni have been free back when you'd have been there? I always heard that in the 70s/80s, uni was free here. A lopsided "come find me" mindset is part of the problem. It means only 1 person out of the two is putting effort into finding someone. And once again, majority of women that love books, and hangout at bookstores, sure as hell dont want to be approached by men while enjoying their time there. Now you know exactly what its like for most men in the dating world, being judged mostly on our job and finances. Women need to learn that just because a guy is successful doesn't mean he knows how to treat a woman or offer a great relationship. But sadly, that's one of the key traits most women look for. Just having a job, paying your bills, and living a modest life isn't attractive to many women any more. Somewhere along the line women started looking at men like the stock market. They want someone that keeps growing and rising up through the ranks, earning more money, and climbing the ladder. Its unbelievable how many women put it on their profile that they wont date a guy that is content with his job and position. Years ago, it was normal for most men to have the same job and position for 30 years. Now, all of a sudden, you have to be an overachiever just to get women to look at you. Brilliantly said. It'd be nice to be seen as something more than a job title and education credentials but that's reality for blokes. Link to post Share on other sites
BlueIris Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 (edited) Yeah. No idea about those stats lol. Unless you are including single mom households. Link please Pew Research and New York Times Breadwinner Moms | Pew Research Center http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/30/business/economy/women-as-family-breadwinner-on-the-rise-study-says.html (lol) How would single mom households not be households with self-sufficient women? Edited January 19, 2016 by BlueIris 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author oregon0011 Posted January 19, 2016 Author Share Posted January 19, 2016 (edited) Pew Research and New York Times Breadwinner Moms | Pew Research Center http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/30/business/economy/women-as-family-breadwinner-on-the-rise-study-says.html (lol) How would single mom households not be households with self-sufficient women? They could be on welfare making 500 a month and still be the primary breadwinner in a single parent home. I am sure there is an entire subculture of millions of Americans like this, but that isn't my dating pool. A woman could divorce and get a ton of alimony while keeping the child, and still be the primary breadwinner in her household. I think amongst married couples, 75 to 80 percent of men are the primary bread winners. Also more accurate for me would be to include only married Caucasian couples recording no govts benefits Edited January 19, 2016 by oregon0011 Link to post Share on other sites
BlueIris Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 I think amongst married couples, 75 to 80 percent of men are the primary bread winners. Link please. The Pew article indicates that that isn't the case, but I could be wrong. Link to post Share on other sites
Author oregon0011 Posted January 19, 2016 Author Share Posted January 19, 2016 Link please. The Pew article indicates that that isn't the case, but I could be wrong. It's in the article you sent me if you scroll down. Also I am Caucasian. I know in different cultures in America the woman typically is the breadwinner. And I am not including welfare cases either. I think it would then be closer to 90 percent males are the primary bread winners Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts