Having a hard time going through with divorce and filing papers

[Mr. Lucky]

There's a quote from Marianne Williamson that says "Sometimes it's easier to love people when there is a healthy distance between us."

 

Your H falls into that category, plan accordingly...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Popsicle]

I read somewhere that the #1 fear that grips people when it comes to deciding to divorce is that they will regret it one day afterwards - that they will realize that the divorce was a mistake and have to live with that. Well, if it's any consolation, I have never once, not even for a second, regretted my divorce (and I don't hate or despise my ex either).

[oldshirt]

I don't regret dumping or getting dumped by any of my former relationships either. I had a period of being sad and being bummed that the relationship was over in the immediate aftermath of the break ups, but never any regrets.

 

 

And these were all decent women and reasonably healthy relationships for the most part. A couple of them had cheated on me but none had ever pee'd on me or tried to set me on fire.

 

 

I can't guarantee you that you will never feel a twinge of regret at some point if you divorce and move on.

 

 

But I think all of us can pretty much assure you that you will regret staying if you don't. I just hope that staying doesn't put you in the burn unit or in the hospital or in the grave.

[merrmeade]

I wish I could hook you up with my exW to gain some insight on that. For myself, dealing with it was an outgrowth of what I learned in MC prior to deciding to divorce, essentially to accept the good times and the not so good times and that, in our case, the love was gone and it was time to move on. I had some distractions from caring for a terminally ill person at the time but overall it wasn't too bad. Life throws stuff at us and we handle things as best we can. None of us is perfect.

 

If you need some help getting the ball rolling, try a couple sessions of IC to clarify things in your mind and then give the filing part a shot. If you have a lawyer, they make it easy, essentially grab details, plug them in, ask what motions you want filed and what grounds and they have their clerk take care of the rest. If you're doing it yourself, the court is an excellent resource. Ours had a self-help desk which compiled the documents and filed them with the clerk of the court.

 

Once we had everything sorted, they told us what to bring for our last visit, they filed the forms while we were there, requested judgment by mail and we had our dissolution the next day. ExW and I were on good terms so I took her out to one last lunch the day of filing, where we reflected on our ten years or so of being together. That's life. It'll work out

This ^^^ is pretty good advice on the whole, cja. I like the suggestion to schedule IC sessions before going in to file.

 

But overall, everyone is right, honey. It's really, really bad for YOU not to acknowledge that his treatment of you must not be allowed for your sake, for his sake, for the sake of all that's right and just. I mean, you don't want to see it for how bad it is because you are dependent on him for reasons you're unaware of that are extremely unhealthy for you and keep you from seeing clearly. You think the good makes up for it, but not really - not something this demeaning. In this kind of situation, people are so used to being treated this way they cannot be objective about it.

 

I think all these decent men posting here are right that you deserve so much better. I deserve better, too, but you - you absolutely must allow yourself to be rescued from this situation.

 

It seems bad now and terribly, terribly scary. But try the IC for help and a plan for getting through it. Don't think, look or listen to any talk that makes you doubt yourself; you've already thought this through many times. Just focus on the task and get through it. You deserve to be happy.

[cja]

Hi again. I'm truly always surprised that I still have people posting and offering patient advice. The logical part of me realizes I'm ridiculous: if you are familiar with Myers Briggs personality "types" I'm an INTP through and through: so though I'm sure I don't appear so, I'm aware of the cognitive dissonance. I'm just too emotionally dim witted and disconnected to the "feeling" side that I can become sort of paralyzed in action. Also the P in me has the downside of too much open ended ness and too little action. I'm kind of a big mess but I appreciate the patience this forum has extended. It's a true virtue.

 

Per all your suggestions, I am going to try to find an IC that can help me. I'm afraid though as the one I had eventually came to the point of encouraging me to work things out with my husband, reinforcing my already strong guilt complex. What should I look for?

 

My counselor actually initially recommended that I leave my spouse but then after meeting with my spouse seemed to change his stance stating that he was just so hurt and I was strong (he said I didn't ever appear "emotional") and so I should just be able to let go of any personalized hurt from the things my husband said or did to me, that I should drop my "armor" because he never would drop his defenses but I could.

 

I haven't seen this counselor since posting here again because I know if I did the guilt feelings would lead me back to our home. And though I'd love to believe in the fantasy of us having an equal partnership, it's like believing that the sun won't come up tomorrow. Although I don't know for sure that the sun will rise, the cycle has been consistent enough to warrant faith in its rising: same can be said for the cycle of meanness and inequality with my husband. And as much as I'd like to believe it isn't so, night has always pushed up day.

Edited January 7, 2016 by cja

[turnera]

I know my husband was at times abusive and mean to me but the bulk of our shared time together was good. It's hard to let go of the memories. I have always been into outdoor activities and have never had cable TV. I love reading and talking philosophy while walking arm in arm with my husband and dog. We walked every evening together and enjoyed no tv intimate dinners every night. We had a very active sex life at least five times a week and sometimes more on long weekends. I loved waking up to passionate sex on Saturdays, then taking a long bike ride or jog, having a picnic in the park, and the going home only to have sex again. We would do yoga together and laugh and play. We would ride our bikes to the grocery store and pick out something amazing to cook together for dinner and just make a whole day of it. He would indulge me in watching kids movies that I love like inside out and Kung foo panda. We'd watch thought provoking documentaries together and then just sit outside and watch the stars or look through the telescope he bought. We'd spend the day gardening together, take our dog for a walk and then spend the evening giving each other long massages ending with making love.

This person is not the same as this person:

Turns out he really just found himself behind another woman and thought that the grass was greener there. Then a few months later, I guess he found that it wasn't really so he came back, sort of. He blamed me for the affair, after he finally admitted he had one and that he wanted to work things out. He has a habit of being very mean to me, calling me a bi*ch, a burden, etc. when he is angry and over the past year of trying to reconcile he has still gone to these dark places and called me names and yelled at me

The second man is the real man. The first man, probably a narcissist, was Grrrreat! As long as HE was getting what he wanted.

 

Once he wasn't, guy #2 showed up. And THAT is the man you'd have to live with if you swallowed your pride and begged him to keep you.

 

As for IC, search for one who specializes in abuse.

[cja]

I literally cringe reading the word "abuse". That can't describe my relationship: it's different somehow. Why is that there?

[turnera]

I literally cringe reading the word "abuse". That can't describe my relationship: it's different somehow. Why is that there?

You can't be serious. You're a smart, successful business woman, and you can't LOGICALLY see the abuse? Let me spell it out for you:

 

I was sexually abused as a teen and though I've done a lot of therapy to overcome that I still carry a guilt that I'm not worthy of being treated with respect. [sexually abused females are the prime target for abusers - they welcome the abuse because they have been trained to believe they deserve it]

My husband left me a year ago via a text message

He blamed me for the affair,

He has a habit of being very mean to me, calling me a bi*ch, a burden, etc. when he is angry and over the past year of trying to reconcile he has still gone to these dark places and called me names and yelled at me

I inadvertantly contributed to his straying [abuse victims always blame themselves]and to his current name calling

When I talk about his affair and how it hurts me it makes him very uncomfortable and angry and he becomes extremely defensive, even when I am trying my very, very best not to be blaming.

I'm always walking on eggshells but I still seem to hurt him.

my husband says I'm fuc*ing stupid

and I wonder if he's right?

I got pregnant but he convinced me to abort as he said a child would ruin his life

I know I'm healthy outwardly and yoga fit and thin though I feel as ugly as my husband makes me feel,

I've been with my husband so long that I feel that I have to have contributed to this somehow [abuse victim talk]

I just don't know how to be better and fix things

My therapist seems very sympathetic to my husband and at least from my perspective makes excuses for his name calling and harsh language.

he kept yelling 'fu'k you' over and over and stating that I was such a burden to him, then slammed the door in my face.

I have talked with my husband about my concerns over his behavior and treatment of me as unacceptable and borderline abusive

he calls me names like a 'snotty bit^h' it is not acceptable but that I have to take some accountability too for bringing him to that point.

took him three days to even apologize but it was only a half apology where he kept saying that I need to apologize too.[abusers always blame the victim]

I ended up apologizing for him feeling hurt and unappreciated but I still don't feel I did anything wrong.

I should be able to talk to my husband about my feelings without it blowing up like that.

These are not things I can talk with my family or friends about (I know not a good sign)

one time going as far as pouring gasoline on me

his belief that I overreact to things l

explaining that his (and this time I did use the word) abuse had been breaking me down so much over all these years

has been the one actively trying to get me to come back to him. He gets on to me all the time for not treating him like a human being by not always talking to him or taking his calls.

my sense of self-worth is already so fragile

He was quite shocked that I left over something as small as that (his words).

I am very, VERY, VERY f*9ng afraid of EVER being mad at my husband

My husband is in desperation mode I think. He went from blaming me that I was using him but unwilling to give anything at all, to anger that I was giving up so quickly without trying, to now I was right and he promises to change and will never ever allow name calling or f yous again..[read up on the cycle of abuse - tension, explosion, honeymoon, etc.] Cycle of Abuse and Power Control Wheel | jchs

spiraling in guilt

HE PEED ON ME before going outback to get the gasoline can.

He once interrogated me for hours trying to have me recall every person I'd every done anything sexual with from my youth forward[my abusive ex did the same thing - gives him AMMUNITION to use against you, call you a slut, make you 'earn' his worthiness]

He also called me some nasty names for having been sexually abused as a teen, that I was dirty and tainted from that. [YOU were tainted because some GUY abused you? Do you see how SICK that is?]

He actually threatened to slit the guys throat.

 

I can't believe nobody's gotten you to read this book yet. Please start reading it tonight: https://www.ecok.edu/sites/default/files/siteContent/administration/centers-programs/brandon-whitten-institute/Why%20Does%20He%20Do%20That.pdf

 

And for starters on how to live the rest of your life, for one, NEVER EVER EVER speak again to a man WHO PEES ON YOU. For a man, that is the ULTIMATE act of disrespect. You are lower than an ant to him.

[William]

Since it appears many/most responses are rooted in content posted in another thread, I'm going to merge them.

[cja]

Thank you, Turnera. That was hard to read, but I forced myself to do so twice. I appreciate you taking the time to condense all of that. I don't like looking at it but that's why I thank you.

[BluEyeL]

I just wonder if anyone has come out stronger on the other side of an affair?

Yes, I did.

 

My ex was also a huge ******* and I did come out stronger at the end of his affair(s). I dumped the cheater, I worked on myself (therapy, self-help books, meditation, weight loss) and a few years later I found love again, I've been with someone else for almost 2 years and we plan to get married eventually. I have never been happier in my entire life and I finally understood how much time of my life was wasted on the ******* ex husband.

 

I suggest you do the same.

 

What you shouldn't do is not go back and forth to this abuser. I didn't dump him immediately and I wasted extra 3 years of my life. This is where you should not do the same. It was stupid.

[NewLeaf512]

I literally cringe reading the word "abuse". That can't describe my relationship: it's different somehow. Why is that there?

 

 

It's there because it is the truth.

[cja]

Writing here instead of calling my husband back just to go round and round in circles chasing our tails again. I feel guilty for not taking all his calls and not always responding to texts, but I've already said what we are doing and why: "We are getting a divorce because we are not good together, don't bring out the best in each other and I don't feel we can be."

 

I steer clear of saying it was an abusive or toxic relationship as that just leads to discussion about how we and he will break the cycle and this time is different , we can be an equal and loving couple, etc and that can go on for hours.

 

He called late last night when I was in bed. Now this was after he'd texted earlier in the day some I love you, I'm in a lot of pain and I miss talking to you and want to talk etc messages so I did eventually send back, "I hope you are well and don't wish any pain on you but I don't want to talk tonight. We only need to find a date to file the papers."

 

Even though I had told him I didn't want to talk, when that late Friday night call woke me, I immediately called him back. I was afraid he was really calling to check in on me as I think he feels that I may be seeing someone. He keeps saying that he knows "something else" is behind me wanting to "isolate" myself from him. When I ask what he means he just answers "I'm not stupid." Then when I explain I just I want to proceed with a divorce, it's like he's only listening enough to counter what I say. I seriously get so twisted up, its exhausting.

 

When I realized he was just wanting to rehash why he believes we can work together to build a strong relationship but my "constant negativity" is what holds us back, I tried getting off the phone saying there was no point in talking more. he said I was so uncaring and dismissive of him as a person and I feel bad. I did eventually get off the phone but then I had a hard time sleeping. I often do when I talk to him.

 

He texted a few times again today about how he knows I'm in pain and just wants to help. Etc. Then called again but I didn't answer. I texted back to say I don't see the point in talking.

 

He says if we are going to get a divorce, we should do it in a kind way together. He wants to meet to fill out the paperwork together over dinner at our house. I feel that is probably not a smart choice. But then I feel so, SO guilty about being afraid to be alone with him. I berate myself to the point of distraction over what right do I have to SUDDENLY be afraid?!? I mean I just lived with him for two months from August to October, and for a long time prior. He hasn't threatened my safety in literally years, that gasoline incident happened over five years ago now. Something powerful in me says "where the he!! do you get off? I mean what the fu(k! Who the he!! do you think you are some spoiled drama loving victim?" And on and on the broken record goes....

 

Thanks LS for being my sat night outlet.

 

Also to add I did actually meet with a lawyer and get to the point of filling out the paperwork last June. I met him for a walk in the park with the paperwork all filled out. It took me two months of looking at it every day on my kitchen counter to finally get the courage to put ink to paperwork that ironically was nothing more than a financial contract. We had a nice walk and picnic dinner (that was always our thing I'll take a walk and picnic I the park every day over a loud crowded restaurant). When I handed him the papers, he ripped them up. He went on a long talk about what I meant to him and how he would fight for me. That's when he went on his first ten day meditation, and then when he got back, I went on my own. So I think I have reason to maybe not want to fill it out together. I'm just lost.

Edited January 9, 2016 by cja

[Popsicle]

No, no... you are smart not to meet with him alone to fill out the papers. Do not do that. There is no reason why you two can't come to your agreements in writing through email or something. That is how my xH, who had anger issues, did it. Or, rather, I insisted that we did it that way so I didn't have to deal with his anger and/or attempts to manipulate me in person and then get angry when I didn't give in. Who knows what he would do? I wasn't going to put up with any abuse. So, we negotiated everything we could through email, even though he hated that, and/or through lawyers when that didn't work.

[cja]

Is it okay to not answer his calls? I mean as long as I text that I just don't want to talk, I NEVER completely ignore him: I know that's probably not right. But I wonder if not answering is just me being some small-minded braty person not willing to step back and see the bigger picture?

[Popsicle]

Is it okay to not answer his calls? I mean as long as I text that I just don't want to talk, I NEVER completely ignore him: I know that's probably not right. But I wonder if not answering is just me being some small-minded braty person not willing to step back and see the bigger picture?

 

It is okay. My ex badgered me so much, that I had it put in our divorce decree that we were only to communicate about the kids strictly by written email. Email is better because it gives him time to think before he speaks and there is a digital copy of it. Later on, text became okay too, albeit sporadic, but I wouldn't respond to any phone calls right after our divorce until he calmed down a few years later. Now we do phone calls, but I can stop those at any time and revert back to email if he acts crazy again. He's been good for a while now so all is well, but it wasn't that way at first.

[turnera]

Of course it's ok not to answer his calls! None of this would even be happening if it weren't for him. HE caused this, not you. You gave him WAY too many second chances, and he blew every one of them.

 

You are DIVORCING. That means you're no longer going to be in each others' lives. You'll never see each other again. You'll have no reason to talk to him again. Ever. So why would you need to talk now?

 

And if he bugs you nonstop to meet, just respond with "Fine. I'll meet you. Me and my mother (fill in whichever person you can get to come with you). When do you want to meet?"

 

He will back off. He doesn't WANT to meet you to fill out the paperwork. He wants to meet so he can use the Abuser 101's textbook method of sweettalking/guilting you into taking him back. That is ALL he is thinking of. You'll see that in the Why Does He Do That? book. Abusers are Master Charmers. It's their lifeline to getting people into their lives.

Edited January 10, 2016 by turnera

[Mr. Lucky]

Is it okay to not answer his calls? I mean as long as I text that I just don't want to talk, I NEVER completely ignore him: I know that's probably not right. But I wonder if not answering is just me being some small-minded braty person not willing to step back and see the bigger picture?

 

If you've already made a well-considered decision to divorce, what do you have to talk about ?

 

While your lawyer may need to talk to his, there will be legal and strategic reasons you shouldn't engage him. That's not small-minded, that's the big picture...

 

Mr. Lucky

[cja]

I have made an appointment with a lawyer tomorrow. I know about time I got my d@mn head out of the sand!

 

I'm wanting a little feedback prior to going in concerning my thoughts over splitting assets etc. for the dissolution. I'm thinking of just splitting the house I own 50/50 with him due to the fact that he did all the renovations on it and he says he put in as much money, well now he says it was more than I did. I also think the divorce laws dictate that all assets acquired during the marriage are split 50/50 and the marital home (the one I own) is definitely 50/50.

 

He is now saying that I can have the first X amount to cover what I bought it for plus the cost to put in the geothermal. Yeah, I know putting a geothermal system was stupid given that you can't recoup that when you sell, but at the time I thought we were going to make a life there in a cold state. It made sense. Then he says he will take whatever is above that amount.

 

I don't think I want to agree to this though as when we were talking dissolution before, that is what he put out as the agreement. Then when it came time to actually file, he got really angry and accused me of being some money grubbing gold digger etc. Then he said that he actually put more into the house than I did, and I have no way of verifying that since I made the initial purchase (a nice foreclosure during the downturn bought outright with money I saved) and I paid for the geothermal (not a cheap system to put in, more than 20k). But I don't really know what he spent as he had his uncle help him and then did a lot of the renovations with contractors under the table etc. So he could have put in more and he put in what he calls sweat equity in doing a lot of work himself and that's true so I give him that. At the time I said 'okay we'll go 60 /40 so he gets his and I'll pay the realtor expenses/ fees). Actually that was one of the worst fights we had over this last year, where he really tore into me and I feel kind of bad about not trusting that he put in more money than I did. Should I still go with that and just be done with it? Give him 60 and just take 40?

 

Also as for other assets, I have a decent amount saved up, ball park of enough for a down payment on a modest home. He owns two houses as rental properties in his name. I did help him when he was buying those by loaning him money and he did purchase them after we were married. While we were living abroad, I worked a regular job covering all our insurance etc and he did his real estate investing. He owns the investment properties, no mortgage (money he earned while contracting abroad). We also both have new cars in our own names. We don't have any debt.

 

I also have a decent 401K and a few years in a pension system. I'm thinking we just take what is in our own names and call it a day? I just wonder if I should also give him half of what I have liquid? Also, I pay his medical insurance as he is a contract worker so he does not receive insurance? So I'm going to ask the lawyer about whether I will have to cover his for a while after D.

 

Anything else that I should consider before meeting the lawyer? Any advice? I want to go in prepared? Thanks!

[carhill]

Make a spreadsheet of all the assets/debts and ballpark numbers. Real estate will need an appraisal unless the parties agree on value. Decide what your main focus in resolving this is and what you can give on. Present everything to the lawyer and let them chew on it. Tip: the more work you do, and the better you present your case details, the fewer billable minutes go against your account. Ignore this if you make as much or more per hour than your lawyer and if necessary time reduces your income.

[cja]

Thanks carhill. I certainly do not make more per hour than a lawyer. So I will work on a spreadsheet. My main focus in resolving this is to:

1) get it DONE and not backtrack

2) try not to make H angry so that it gets ugly

3) try to come out of this with enough $$to start over out west where I plan to move to be closer to family

[carhill]

My lawyer asked me what was the one thing I wanted to get out of the divorce. One thing. For me it was my business so I could earn money to take care of my mom until she passed. He then laid out a plan of action to achieve that goal.

 

Think about that for your situation. What's the smoothest path to a reasonable, but important, goal when dissolving the partnership? Work that.

 

If I could pass on two tips from the process it would be to take each day one at a time and work to avoid getting wound up in the little stuff.

 

Oh, and something which lightened my psychic burden was watching an old flick about love, marriage and divorce called 'War of the Roses' with Michael Douglas, Danny DeVito and Kathleen Turner.

 

No, I didn't piss on the fish. But I wanted to

 

Humor. You'll get through it.

[66Charger]

This is why you allow a lawyer to handle it.

A renovation could cost from $7000 to $70, 000. Major cost are electrical, flooring, plumbing and foundation work. If you take out the day to day repairs, how long did the major repairs take? Was he splitting the mortgage 50/50?

 

It appears that he has other investments that acquired during the marraige. If he is looking at your house, you need to take a good look at them also.

 

From what you posted, he may be better walking away from the house without a split. If your lawyer finds this information, everything aquired during the marriage comes into play.

 

Let him know that if he wishes to go this route, then he needs to prepare some spreadsheets for your lawyer. If he doesnt wish to do this, tell him to just walk away from your house.

 

All of it. As long as you are going to negotiate, be ruthless.

 

He might say never mind

Edited January 13, 2016 by 66Charger

[cja]

He did not pay on a mortgage. I didn't get one for our home, just paid outright. It was a foreclosure and I am a saver so it all worked out. Like I've said we never mixed money except for a household account, and even then only for things we both used like laundry detergent etc. I think the one thing I'd like to come out with is enough to start over. I don't want any part of his assets: I'd never l sit right with it, yet I don't know what part of mine is really ours? I feel like he kept his money more separate than mine.. Hence I purchased our home, the geothermal and really all the expenses for years abroad were paid by me, while his liquid cash plus much of mine as interest free loans were tied up in his houses.

 

I honestly don't need help in the financial realm, I just need some emotional reassurance. I feel guilty and just wrong.... Like I should just give my husband everything or that means I'm a, well, expletive. I'm f'ed up and only just now accepting it.

Edited January 13, 2016 by cja

[LAGirl65]

Yes I was thinking the same thing. She is being emotionally abused and she is buying into the vision he is selling of her. He gets mad when she is hurt about HIS behavior. So she cannot move on because he is NOT SORRY he is still blaming her. It is very hard to imagine him changing if he thinks he has done nothing wrong.