Affair and mental issues

[Spectre]

you are entitled to have that opinion...and i even respect that that is your opinion. However...your opinion is not my opinion.... This is the way you feel...and you have every right to express it.

 

Now i will tell you why i disagree with you....and i wont ask you to agree with my opinion.

 

Marriage is hard work whether affected by infidelity or not....and infidelity certainly complicates things...and leaves it's mark. But that mark will remain on the couple regardless of divorce or reconciliation. Just because you divorce a cheater...doesn't mean you don't forever carry the scar of the infidelity. You still have to deal with it. For some...the only answer is divorce...and that is absolutely the best thing for them. But for others ....reconciliation is the right answer. I have 43 years invested in a man i love and adore and want to spend the rest of my life with. I cheated...then he cheated....but we both decided that staying together was what we both wanted. I assure you...neither of us is a doormat. We are a mature couple who has grown together in so many wonderful ways. We have a beautiful family and a wonderful life.

 

The only regret i have in life...is that i cheated in the first place.

 

The thing is though most doormats will not admit to being doormats. You are also right in that marriage is complicated. Not everything is black and white, right? But see let us think about that phrase for a sentence. Not EVERYTHING is black and white. Meaning somethings are indeed black and white. One of those things are cheating. You just don't do it if you love your partner. It's a warped and sick kind of love(to me) that spawns any kind of cheating.

 

You say you are a mature couple but to me there is nothing mature about a couple where both have been unfaithful. Sorry, as you have your opinion I have mine.

[Spectre]

I am not sure that foregiveness and doormattedness are necessarily related or that one leads to the other. I think they can be completely independent of each other.

 

 

to me the definition of a doormat in this context is someone who is being harmed by their WS's infidelity but doesn't do anything to either stop the infidelity or remove themself from the situation. Allowing yourself to continue to be harmed, humiliated, disrespected, exposed to disease, denied your partner's love and affection etc etc etc is clearly doormat.

 

 

Foregiveness may not have a thing to do with that. I don't see anything that indicates the OP in this situation foregives her. He is simply allowing it to happen, allowing it to continue to hurt him and finding excuses in his mind to support and accommodate her to keep screwing her BF.

 

 

That is clearly weakness and doormatness. Has nothing to do with forgiveness.

 

 

Conversely, someone else may have discovered the A, smacked it down, drew a line in the sand and enforced their boundaries, worked through the issues and drew up a new contract and worked through the process, evaluated all options, decided that reconciliation was the better long term option based on all the circumstances and in time forgave the transgression and moved forward towards the new reality.

 

 

That isn't being a doormat.

 

 

forgiveness means that you reach a point you aren't going to dwell on it or put any more time and energy into it any more and are going to move on. That can occur whether the decision is made to reconcile or divorce.

 

 

People can divorce and still not forgive and can still be doormat.

 

 

And as Mrs John Adams pointed out, even if there is a divorce, you still have to work through most of the same stuff anyway. divorce doesn't make everything go away and be all sunshine and butterflies either.

 

 

Forgiveness may very well mean you've delt with it, did what you needed to do, can't really do anymore about it and have decided to put it behind you and move forward with everything else in your life. That has nothing to do with being a doormat and if done right means that you've taken charge of doing what you need to do for your own self. That is the opposite of being a doormat.

 

I guess you are correct and I feel I worded my post poorly. A person isn't a doormat if they forgive. They are merely doormats if they stay with the cheater and deceive themselves into thinking such a person has any love or respect for them. So you are correct forgiving and actually moving on(and I do stress the moving on part) isn't a sign of a doormat.

Edited December 27, 2015 by Spectre

[Mrs. John Adams]

The thing is though most doormats will not admit to being doormats. You are also right in that marriage is complicated. Not everything is black and white, right? But see let us think about that phrase for a sentence. Not EVERYTHING is black and white. Meaning somethings are indeed black and white. One of those things are cheating. You just don't do it if you love your partner. It's a warped and sick kind of love(to me) that spawns any kind of cheating.

 

You say you are a mature couple but to me there is nothing mature about a couple where both have been unfaithful. Sorry, as you have your opinion I have mine.

 

Mature as in age....

Married almost 44 years

Reconciliation for 32 years

 

Fact....not speculation...not opinion

 

The only opinion that matters about our relationship...is ours.

[Mr Blunt]

Originally Posted by Spectre

Yep and I know what I say next some will not agree with but: any man who forgives his wife for screwing another man is a doormat. Every woman who forgives her husband for screwing another woman is a doormat. There's just no sane reason to do it. You love them? Coolness, but maybe love yourself a bit more. Don't think you will ever find anyone else? Meh, being alone is better then being a doormat and a blowup doll or a hooker will have more respect for you then a cheating spouse.

 

Spectre, you are posting on the forum for “INFIDELITY”

You only give the advice for one way to handle infidelity. Anyone that does not agree with your way you call them a doormat.

 

Whether a spouse divorces or chooses to R if they choose forgiveness they will be better off.

I doubt that you suggesting that the BS be alone with a blowup doll or a hooker will help them any.

 

The OP will be much better off if he forgives and builds himself back up.

It takes a much stronger person to forgive than call people names.

Spectre, how much experience do you have with forgiveness?

[srife27]

Update for all who are following this thread. She left me on Christmas Day. I bore my soul and gave her the ultimatum. She balked left that night returned 9:00AM 12/26 and said I'm leaving. Hey I tried she is being a selfish child and I have her family and friends on my side of this. There were completely shocked as I was. But whats done is done she will now be someone elses problem. She left me with the house and both kids so the situation is going to be a little complicated as I file for divorce and we work out a custody agreement and I work on a way to care for the kids full time. This will all come crashing down on her eventually and by then it will be to late. But in the mean time i'm devastated by all this. I love her. I know I shouldn't I know I should be an uncontrollable ball of rage but I still care for her. I'm in that hard stage where i don't want to believe whats going on. I'm crying in front of the kids. The kids are coming to me asking where mommy is. I'm trying to be strong. I really am.

[Ruffian1]

srife

 

She did not leave you on Christmas Day. She left you when she started up with her OM. She just didn't tell you. I have No doubts her and OM have been talking about getting together when the time is right. Be prepared for her to get Nasty, mean and start demoning you. It is a good thing that she left, you just can't see it right now. So sorry you were hurt by a cheater.

[RightThere]

Update for all who are following this thread. She left me on Christmas Day. I bore my soul and gave her the ultimatum. She balked left that night returned 9:00AM 12/26 and said I'm leaving. Hey I tried she is being a selfish child and I have her family and friends on my side of this. There were completely shocked as I was. But whats done is done she will now be someone elses problem. She left me with the house and both kids so the situation is going to be a little complicated as I file for divorce and we work out a custody agreement and I work on a way to care for the kids full time. This will all come crashing down on her eventually and by then it will be to late. But in the mean time i'm devastated by all this. I love her. I know I shouldn't I know I should be an uncontrollable ball of rage but I still care for her. I'm in that hard stage where i don't want to believe whats going on. I'm crying in front of the kids. The kids are coming to me asking where mommy is. I'm trying to be strong. I really am.

 

Good luck my friend. It's going to be a tough road, but don't allow yourself to be her back up plan/crying shoulder for when she comes crawling back (because they often do).

 

Just remember that she has so little regard for you and her own children, that she would leave them and never look back.

[ladydesigner]

I am not sure that foregiveness and doormattedness are necessarily related or that one leads to the other. I think they can be completely independent of each other.

 

 

to me the definition of a doormat in this context is someone who is being harmed by their WS's infidelity but doesn't do anything to either stop the infidelity or remove themself from the situation. Allowing yourself to continue to be harmed, humiliated, disrespected, exposed to disease, denied your partner's love and affection etc etc etc is clearly doormat.

 

 

Foregiveness may not have a thing to do with that. I don't see anything that indicates the OP in this situation foregives her. He is simply allowing it to happen, allowing it to continue to hurt him and finding excuses in his mind to support and accommodate her to keep screwing her BF.

 

 

That is clearly weakness and doormatness. Has nothing to do with forgiveness.

 

 

Conversely, someone else may have discovered the A, smacked it down, drew a line in the sand and enforced their boundaries, worked through the issues and drew up a new contract and worked through the process, evaluated all options, decided that reconciliation was the better long term option based on all the circumstances and in time forgave the transgression and moved forward towards the new reality.

 

 

That isn't being a doormat.

 

 

forgiveness means that you reach a point you aren't going to dwell on it or put any more time and energy into it any more and are going to move on. That can occur whether the decision is made to reconcile or divorce.

 

 

People can divorce and still not forgive and can still be doormat.

 

 

And as Mrs John Adams pointed out, even if there is a divorce, you still have to work through most of the same stuff anyway. divorce doesn't make everything go away and be all sunshine and butterflies either.

 

 

Forgiveness may very well mean you've delt with it, did what you needed to do, can't really do anymore about it and have decided to put it behind you and move forward with everything else in your life. That has nothing to do with being a doormat and if done right means that you've taken charge of doing what you need to do for your own self. That is the opposite of being a doormat.

 

Sort of a t/j would I be considered a doormat for staying in limbo currently. I do not let what my WH does affect me anymore, but we are not emotionally connected due to the nature of his last A. I have let him know where my feelings currently are for him and yet he still wants to fight for R? end t/j

[ladydesigner]

Spectre, you are posting on the forum for “INFIDELITY”

You only give the advice for one way to handle infidelity. Anyone that does not agree with your way you call them a doormat.

 

Whether a spouse divorces or chooses to R if they choose forgiveness they will be better off.

I doubt that you suggesting that the BS be alone with a blowup doll or a hooker will help them any.

 

The OP will be much better off if he forgives and builds himself back up.

It takes a much stronger person to forgive than call people names.

Spectre, how much experience do you have with forgiveness?

 

For me it wasn't even forgiving my WH more than I needed to forgive myself for staying. Definitely build yourself back up regardless of the WS.

[aliveagain]

She is married to you for two years. You have two children that she is willing to leave on Christmas Day for her boyfriend. Who wants a wife that has a boyfriend and won't hesitate to leave her children for after only being married two years? No one I know, change the locks, change your banking, start the process with your lawyer, leave the trash in 2015, make 2016 about you and your children. 180,180, 180, keep any communication with her through your lawyer, make the 180 your new mantra. It is only going to get worse before it gets better, the less interaction you can have with her the sooner your healing will start. Her decision to leave you was made before she suggested an open marriage, even if you had agreed to it she still would have left you at some point.

[drifter777]

Update for all who are following this thread. She left me on Christmas Day. I bore my soul and gave her the ultimatum. She balked left that night returned 9:00AM 12/26 and said I'm leaving. Hey I tried she is being a selfish child and I have her family and friends on my side of this. There were completely shocked as I was. But whats done is done she will now be someone elses problem. She left me with the house and both kids so the situation is going to be a little complicated as I file for divorce and we work out a custody agreement and I work on a way to care for the kids full time. This will all come crashing down on her eventually and by then it will be to late. But in the mean time i'm devastated by all this. I love her. I know I shouldn't I know I should be an uncontrollable ball of rage but I still care for her. I'm in that hard stage where i don't want to believe whats going on. I'm crying in front of the kids. The kids are coming to me asking where mommy is. I'm trying to be strong. I really am.

 

 

Get some help with the kids right now. You say you have family and friends on your side - call them and ask them straight up for help. You are in an emotional crisis right now and your kids don't need to see and experience all of this. I know you will do the best you can for them but you really need some help.

 

Console yourself with the fact that your marriage did produce those wonderful kids and that the two of you had your share of good times. Then start closing that door behind you and living in the here and now. Get going with the divorce, counseling, and being a father. Staying busy with positive actions is the best medicine for you right now.

 

Please don't have any unnecessary contact with WW as it is nothing but a source of pain and negativity for you. Don't go backwards.

[turnera]

IWhat was suggested early on was basically we each get a day or two a week to spend the with the Other leaving the home as a safe haven for the children. We would still act and be family with the children and in our home we would just have romantic and intimate relations outside the home.

Don't forget the monthly STD tests you'd have to start getting.

 

I hope you've seen a lawyer. Because you KNOW she's gonna come back at you with both guns ablazing, expecting to get the kids AND the house AND your money.

[merrmeade]

I'm so sorry she's done this to you, srife, but try to remember it's not your fault. It's nothing you did or could/should have changed. She did it, and she did it to you and the children. It's not fair, and you are left with the fallout. Yes, you must grieve, but I hope your anger kicks in soon. It will balance feeling sorry for yourself and the situation and put the blame squarely where it belongs.

 

Do let family and friends help with the kids. Do focus on taking care of yourself in all ways—physically, emotionally and any other way that's important to you (spiritual, artistic—whatever brings you fulfillment).

 

Just keep posting as you deal with things. It's all relevant.

[Mr Blunt]

Originally Posted by Mr Blunt

Spectre, you are posting on the forum for “INFIDELITY”

You only give the advice for one way to handle infidelity. Anyone that does not agree with your way you call them a doormat.

 

Whether a spouse divorces or chooses to R if they choose forgiveness they will be better off.

I doubt that you suggesting that the BS be alone with a blowup doll or a hooker will help them any.

 

The OP will be much better off if he forgives and builds himself back up.

It takes a much stronger person to forgive than call people names.

Spectre, how much experience do you have with forgiveness?

 

By ladydesigner

For me it wasn't even forgiving my WH more than I needed to forgive myself for staying. Definitely build yourself back up regardless of the WS.

 

My definition of forgiveness is to get rid of bitterness, hate, revenge etc. Forgiveness has nothing to do with being a door mat. What helped me get that forgiveness was a lot of me building myself up, the support of my family, and my faith. I was fortunate as I was able to do all three to some degree. Forgiveness is greatly helped when you are becoming a person that you are more internal contented with.

Ladydeigner, I do not know your story but forgiving yourself involves you letting go of those negative feeling you have for him and yourself. You are so worthy of self restoration and forgiveness. A lot has to do with you believing that you have a lot to gain beginning now and into your future then taking positive actions. Your husband is not your whole life and neither are the mistakes and negative thoughts that you may have of yourself. Your future emotional and spiritual life is NOT depending any on your past no matter what you did or how much you kick yourself for staying. You cannot change what happened in the past but you can change a LOT of what your future holds; life is for the living now and in the future.

 

Do something that is positive every day or every week.

[Mr Blunt]

 

Originally posted by srife27

Update for all who are following this thread. She left me on Christmas Day. I bore my soul and gave her the ultimatum. She balked left that night returned 9:00AM 12/26 and said I'm leaving. Hey I tried she is being a selfish child and I have her family and friends on my side of this. There were completely shocked as I was. But whats done is done she will now be someone elses problem. She left me with the house and both kids so the situation is going to be a little complicated as I file for divorce and we work out a custody agreement and I work on a way to care for the kids full time. This will all come crashing down on her eventually and by then it will be to late. But in the mean time i'm devastated by all this. I love her. I know I shouldn't I know I should be an uncontrollable ball of rage but I still care for her. I'm in that hard stage where i don't want to believe whats going on. I'm crying in front of the kids. The kids are coming to me asking where mommy is. I'm trying to be strong. I really am.

Force yourself to concentrate on you and your children. When thoughts of your wife come to your mind force them out and replace them with positive thoughts. Your wife has made a very strong and very selfish decision and there is nothing you can do about that. You are a good man and so make sure that you kill those thoughts that tell you made mistakes. Of course you made mistakes abut NONE of them made your wife abandon and betray her children and marriage.

You must know that you are a good man, reject any thoughts that you are not, and then take actions every chance you get to build yourself up. Even though you are hurt to the bone right now you can get through this and be contented again. This too shall pass!

[cocorico]

Update for all who are following this thread. She left me on Christmas Day. I bore my soul and gave her the ultimatum. She balked left that night returned 9:00AM 12/26 and said I'm leaving. Hey I tried she is being a selfish child and I have her family and friends on my side of this. There were completely shocked as I was. But whats done is done she will now be someone elses problem. She left me with the house and both kids so the situation is going to be a little complicated as I file for divorce and we work out a custody agreement and I work on a way to care for the kids full time. This will all come crashing down on her eventually and by then it will be to late. But in the mean time i'm devastated by all this. I love her. I know I shouldn't I know I should be an uncontrollable ball of rage but I still care for her. I'm in that hard stage where i don't want to believe whats going on. I'm crying in front of the kids. The kids are coming to me asking where mommy is. I'm trying to be strong. I really am.

 

Tell them the truth - that their mother isn't well.

 

Chances are she will return and expect you to be good with it all - to sweep your ultimatum under the rug and accept her back on her own terms. Or, she may hold out, and beg to come back later, thoroughly broken, appealing to your sense of compassion, promising you the world. Be wary of both of these. You will not be doing the kids any favours if you take her back in either situation. Rather, let her go off and heal, and let her come to terms with her issues, and if - once she is well, and properly able to consider all of her actions in a mature, responsible fashion - she wants to return and is willing to do what it takes to make the M work for you both, then consider it. Not before. Messing the kids about does them no favours.

 

Take time for yourself. Let family help with the kids. She has been the focus for too long. You need to recharge, too.

[aliveagain]

Friend, document everything, carry a VAR on you whenever you need to interact with her. She knows your in pain but she can't understand why you can't get over it. You can not negotiate or reason with crazy. Use the Courts to get full custody of your children.

[ShatteredLady]

I know what it's like trying to care for little kids 24/7 while you're in agony. It's so very hard to pretend to be 'normal' & perky. Please get some close family (your side) & friends to take them out, even if it's just for a couple of hours to the park...my friend did this for me a few times when I was at my worse & just being able to fall apart for a little while really helps.

[Cephalopod]

Change the locks on the house. She doesn't get back in without a court order.

 

When my xWW left me and our daughter for her OM, I filed for full custody. I also filed a requisition to not pay her alimony since she abandoned us. The court later gave me full custody. I still had to pay alimony but the judge cut it in half from what I would have had to pay.

 

I know how you are feeling and the extreme pain you are going through because I went through the same betrayal. I wish I could mail you a pill to take to remove the pain but I cannot. You just have to work through it, and it will take years to get over. Counseling and talking to people helped me a lot. Make sure you are talking to someone. Make sure you tell all your family, friends and everyone why she left the marriage. Do not let her blame the divorce on you.

 

My xWW never tried to come back to me. Her relationship with her OM failed after only a couple of months, but she immediately moved on to a new OM, ,and then another and another. She has hopped from bed to bed for the last four years. My xWW, like yours, is a broken human. I hope yours gets the help she desperately needs, but for now, your focus needs to be on your own healing and on your children.

 

Get the meanest, nastiest shark lawyer you can find. Clean house on your WW and make sure you get the best outcome possible for yourself. The time for being fair is long over.

[Spectre]

Dude you are crying and all that..this woman is DESTROYING YOU!!! I swear to god I just..after your post about how upset you are and all this all it tells me is you need this person out of your life. I get that you love here, but she is killing you inside and she will continue to do so if she is in your life. Think of that THAT will do to your kids.

 

Mature as in age....

Married almost 44 years

Reconciliation for 32 years

 

Fact....not speculation...not opinion

 

The only opinion that matters about our relationship...is ours.

 

I never said my opinion mattered. But you willingly put forth information about your relationship on this forum. I am happy for you if you are happy. But in my opinion a marriage where both people have cheated is no marriage at all. If you are fine with that kind of set up then more power to you.

 

But like you said, it is of course your marriage, nobody ever said otherwise. But again I stress you did put forth information so you can't really get uppity when people give an opinion on it. It's not like I knocked on your front door and began questioning you.

Edited January 7, 2016 by Spectre

[TX-SC]

I just finally read through your post. What a horrible way for a person to treat their spouse and children. I am very sorry that this is happening to you. Keep your head up and work towards a better life for yourself and for your kids. Your wife has made her choice and now has the closure she sought. Now you need closure so you can move forward with your own life.

 

Your wife may very well have mental issues, buts he made a conscious choice and you now need to move on with the knowledge that she chose someone else or at least a different lifestyle. Be proud of yourself for not being willing to undermine your own morals and values to satisfy her whims. You are a strong man and can get through this. It may not seem like it now, but better times await you and your kids.

Edited January 7, 2016 by TX-SC

[Spectre]

Exactly! There comes a point where you have to worry more about you and your kids. This woman is toxic. Get her out of your life so she can get the help she needs without utterly destroying you life like she is doing right now.

 

It's why I said from the very beginning that mental issues aren't much of an excuse. Your wife is just plain awful. If you have cancer and you know you have cancer you need to do everything you can to remove it.

[kgcolonel]

Agreed with the divorce, primary goal....protect the kids. My own mother was BP and the feeling i had when my Dad left and i was alone with her at 7 was that literally, i was the man of the house. That is too young and too much pressure for a child. Get a court order that if she gets custody, it is to be supervised as she is not stable.

 

Continue to go to therapy to both get the help you and your kids will need but also to document the damage and her instability.

 

I am betting big time that her OM was happy getting some on the side but when he has to deal with her full time, his d__ck will fail to rise too....(hope i don't get into the doghouse with that) This is a symptom of the stress you have been going through.

 

Be the world's greatest DAD your kids have ever seen or could hope for!!! Surround yourself with friends and family and make time to do something everyday (even just for a few minutes) just for you. Do not let her see you suffer or sad.....be strong buddy!!!

[Mrs. John Adams]

Dude you are crying and all that..this woman is DESTROYING YOU!!! I swear to god I just..after your post about how upset you are and all this all it tells me is you need this person out of your life. I get that you love here, but she is killing you inside and she will continue to do so if she is in your life. Think of that THAT will do to your kids.

 

 

 

I never said my opinion mattered. But you willingly put forth information about your relationship on this forum. I am happy for you if you are happy. But in my opinion a marriage where both people have cheated is no marriage at all. If you are fine with that kind of set up then more power to you.

 

But like you said, it is of course your marriage, nobody ever said otherwise. But again I stress you did put forth information so you can't really get uppity when people give an opinion on it. It's not like I knocked on your front door and began questioning you.

 

I am not here asking for your input or opinion about our 43 year old marriage. I was answering someone else...and you decided to give your opinion about OUR relationship. OUR relationship is not in question. I did not ask for help...i did not ask for advice...i did not ask for assistance. I am here just like you....answering the op....You are entitled to have your opinion about our marriage....and i even understand your reasoning....However...it is irrelevant...and it has NOTHING to do with the OP.

 

By the way....I am not the least bit uppity....I am grateful.

[Spectre]

I am not here asking for your input or opinion about our 43 year old marriage. I was answering someone else...and you decided to give your opinion about OUR relationship. OUR relationship is not in question. I did not ask for help...i did not ask for advice...i did not ask for assistance. I am here just like you....answering the op....You are entitled to have your opinion about our marriage....and i even understand your reasoning....However...it is irrelevant...and it has NOTHING to do with the OP.

 

By the way....I am not the least bit uppity....I am grateful.

 

You still willingly offered me information about your relationship. Which opens it up for comments. Yes it has nothing to do with the OP I grant you that, but you DID share the info nonetheless.

 

You responded acting like I told you my opinion about your life truly mattered and you should take my advice to heart, it was just an observation.

 

I also don't get your comment about being grateful. I wasn't saying you were uppity about your marriage, but about me commenting on it. Unless you meant you were grateful for me commenting, which would be strange given the overall tone of your posts.