Rape culture.

[SwordofFlame]

"ROOSH" is quite open about his beliefs that it should not be illegal. His seminars are open to everyone - well, if you're a guy anyway - and anyone can read his forum or look at his YouTube channel. Where you can find him espousing about how rape should be legal on private property.

 

I don't deny that rape culture exists in some places, like college campuses for example. How do we fix that? Women should take self defense classes? I'm all for it.

[Jimmysss]

I don't deny that rape culture exists in some places, like college campuses for example. How do we fix that? Women should take self defense classes? I'm all for it.

 

that's a good suggestion

[Woggle]

I don't even know who this Roosh guy is but anybody who follows him is a scumbag as well. That being rape culture is not some secret society that all men secretly belong the way some feminists tell it.

[BlueIris]

You aren't even allowed to suggest things like that, because they will accuse you of victim blaming, even though simple steps to protect oneself from harm seem rather reasonable, IMO.

 

It's gotten to the point where men almost need to get a notarized sex contract in some places.

 

It sounds awful

[RedRobin]

If men are worried about being falsely accused of rape, then they can take the same measures as women who are afraid of being raped.

 

 

As for the taking self-defense class thing... I took judo when I was younger. Not because I was afraid of being raped, but because it seemed more interesting than golf (blech). Plus I got to wrestle with cute guys

 

 

Rape culture and college campuses... hmm... well, it's been awhile since I was a student, but here's what I remember...

 

 

I was at a fraternity party. Invited by one of my HS friends who was in a sorority. The booze was flowing. I was dancing with one of the 'brothers' and he got a smirk on his face as he looked over my shoulder at someone. I whipped my head around to see some guy making a finger in a hole gesture. yuckity-yuck-yuck.

 

 

All I was doing was dancing. Wasn't even dirty dancing. Pretty innocent. I left. Never went to another fraternity party again. Never dated a guy who was in a fraternity while in college.

 

 

I don't have a lot of respect for women who join sororities... I'd be happy if so-called Greek life died. It's a cesspool. If 'rape culture' exists... and not convinced that it does... then it has its roots there. Yep. Kill Greek life on campus and I bet most of the problem will be solved, not to mention racist BS that goes along with fraternity life.

 

 

... as for guys like this Roosh character... he's a garden variety sociopath. Probably not all that different than Trump. They both attract angry sheep who think that being violent will make them more attractive or successful or safe.

Edited December 16, 2015 by RedRobin

[RedRobin]

It sounds awful

 

 

Oh please. This is just whining by guys who want to have anonymous or nearly anonymous sex without consequences or risks.

 

 

Anyone who has sex with strangers or near strangers ought to feel there is risk involved. The fact that more men have to wonder about what might happen if things go too far is not terribly tragic, if you ask me. Maybe they will lay off the hard sell on date one or three.

 

 

I'm not holding my breath.

[Woggle]

Oh please. This is just whining by guys who want to have anonymous or nearly anonymous sex without consequences or risks.

 

 

Anyone who has sex with strangers or near strangers ought to feel there is risk involved. The fact that more men have to wonder about what might happen if things go too far is not terribly tragic, if you ask me. Maybe they will lay off the hard sell on date one or three.

 

 

I'm not holding my breath.

 

Just because somebody has sexual values you might not agree with does not mean they should be accused of a crime they didn't commit.

[sambolini]

Just because somebody has sexual values you might not agree with does not mean they should be accused of a crime they didn't commit.

 

That's not the vibe I got from her post. What I think she meant is that there is inherent risk involved for both genders. While Red doesn't have much sympathy for men in that scenario, I also get the impression that she doesn't have much sympathy for women in that scenario either. There is risk involved for both, and to say "I don't care about your risk because my risk" is wrong.

 

Seems reasonable to me.

 

Unless I'm totally wrong, in which case Red is free to correct me.

[RedRobin]

Just because somebody has sexual values you might not agree with does not mean they should be accused of a crime they didn't commit.

 

 

The number of false accusations is quite low (see the link I posted earlier).

 

 

The fact that there is a CHANCE of being falsely accused, however, ought to be enough that SMART men think twice about taking home a stranger.

 

 

Idiots and *ssholes abound. Of both genders. Caveat Emptor.

[sambolini]

There is no doubt this Roosh character is a sleazeball. But it appears that men don't have a monopoly on crazy (even though they want you to think that they do).

 

[RedRobin]

That's not the vibe I got from her post. What I think she meant is that there is inherent risk involved for both genders. While Red doesn't have much sympathy for men in that scenario, I also get the impression that she doesn't have much sympathy for women in that scenario either. There is risk involved for both, and to say "I don't care about your risk because my risk" is wrong.

 

Seems reasonable to me.

 

Unless I'm totally wrong, in which case Red is free to correct me.

 

 

I actually have sympathy for both genders in both scenarios. I work with a lot of young people, and I'd never want anything bad to happen to them. Ever.

 

 

I don't think that clueless women 'deserve' to be raped. Nor do I think that clueless men 'deserve' to have false charges against them. That said, the number of false charges is quite low. Not enough for anyone to be walking around whining about getting a contract before sex. If that's how they feel, it's only because they are not used to needing any kind of discretion.

 

 

I'm pretty 'free love' in the big scheme of things. Quite sexually open and adventurous. But it's kinda like jumping out of an airplane at 10,000 feet. Only idiots (ok, and the young) do it without packing their own parachute and planning ahead.

[sambolini]

The number of false accusations is quite low (see the link I posted earlier).

 

 

The fact that there is a CHANCE of being falsely accused, however, ought to be enough that SMART men think twice about taking home a stranger.

 

 

Idiots and *ssholes abound. Of both genders. Caveat Emptor.

 

You lose me a little bit here, Red. That'd be like saying, "The fact that a black person can get falsely accused of burglary should keep them from going to convenience stores at night. Caveat emptor."

 

This also implies that it's good for someone to be falsely accused of a crime they didn't commit. I honestly can't see how that could ever be a positive situation.

[sambolini]

The number of false accusations is quite low (see the link I posted earlier).

 

 

The fact that there is a CHANCE of being falsely accused, however, ought to be enough that SMART men think twice about taking home a stranger.

 

 

Idiots and *ssholes abound. Of both genders. Caveat Emptor.

 

I actually have sympathy for both genders in both scenarios. I work with a lot of young people, and I'd never want anything bad to happen to them. Ever.

 

 

I don't think that clueless women 'deserve' to be raped. Nor do I think that clueless men 'deserve' to have false charges against them. That said, the number of false charges is quite low. Not enough for anyone to be walking around whining about getting a contract before sex. If that's how they feel, it's only because they are not used to needing any kind of discretion.

 

 

I'm pretty 'free love' in the big scheme of things. Quite sexually open and adventurous. But it's kinda like jumping out of an airplane at 10,000 feet. Only idiots (ok, and the young) do it without packing their own parachute and planning ahead.

 

Fair enough. But I don't think any man here ever said a clueless woman deserves to be raped. This also raises the question: clueless how? I don't see women as hapless, stupid individuals. I see them as highly intelligent human beings who are capable of determining for themselves, "Yes I want this sexual encounter" or "No I do not want this sexual encounter".

 

I think it does a disservice to women to suggest otherwise.

[BlueIris]

Oh please. This is just whining by guys who want to have anonymous or nearly anonymous sex without consequences or risks.

 

 

Anyone who has sex with strangers or near strangers ought to feel there is risk involved. The fact that more men have to wonder about what might happen if things go too far is not terribly tragic, if you ask me. Maybe they will lay off the hard sell on date one or three.

 

 

I'm not holding my breath.

 

I was being sarcastic. Didn't come through I guess.

 

Yeah, the threat of false accusation is the REAL issue in discussions of rape. The threat of false accusation must be just awful. (sarcasm)

[sambolini]

I was being sarcastic. Didn't come through I guess.

 

Yeah, the threat of false accusation is the REAL issue in discussions of rape. The threat of false accusation must be just awful. (sarcasm)

 

No one said it's the "real" issue. Honest, good men who have never hurt a woman in their lives simply don't want to be falsely accused.

 

This statement does not invalidate how horrendous of a crime rape is in any way.

[Rejected Rosebud]

You aren't even allowed to suggest things like that, because they will accuse you of victim blaming, even though simple steps to protect oneself from harm seem rather reasonable, IMO.

 

It's gotten to the point where men almost need to get a notarized sex contract in some places.

That's very ignorant.

 

We women SHOULD be able to protect ourselves and do what we need to do to take care of our own safety.

 

That is in NO WAY related to RAPISTS. Rapists are criminals doing a criminal act of violence. What you'd like to suggest women do is not appropriate, maybe you should figure out some suggestions for would-be rapists instead. Victims of rape, whether women or other men or children even, don't cause the criminal to commit the crime.

 

If YOU think you need to get a notarized contract in order to be sure you are having consensual sex, then you probably really ought to get one. :(

[BlueIris]

… This law has essentially made almost all men a rapist. Modern day feminism at work.

 

No, just men who don’t talk to and care about their prospective partner(s).

 

Know the person you’re having sex with. Care about him or her. If you don’t understand and trust someone it isn’t a good idea to have sex with him or her whether this law exists or not.

 

I didn’t read the CA Code section you’re referring to, but here’s something on the “Yes means Yes” laws generally. I agree with this view:

 

“But the case for affirmative consent is “compelling,” he says. Mr. Schulhofer has argued that being raped is much worse than having to endure that awkward moment when one stops to confirm that one’s partner is happy to continue. Silence or inertia, often interpreted as agreement, may actually reflect confusion, drunkenness or “frozen fright,” a documented physiological response in which a person under sexual threat is paralyzed by terror. To critics who object that millions of people are having sex without getting unqualified assent and aren’t likely to change their ways, he’d reply that millions of people drive 65 miles per hour despite a 55-mile-per-hour speed limit, but the law still saves lives. As long as “people know what the rules of the road are,” he says, “the overwhelming majority will comply with them.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/28/opinion/sunday/judith-shulevitz-regulating-sex.html

 

I see many benefits to people talking openly with each other, and if it is too awkward or difficult for someone to talk and listen to someone that he or she wants to have sex with, that’s a problem that he or she ought to solve. Be as comfortable talking about sex as having sex.

 

I can see this impacting stranger hook-ups or people in bad relationships (uncaring, dishonest, intimidation or threats, and the like) but I don’t see the value of protecting those situations outweighing the value of preventing rape.

 

There are communities that already recognized the importance of affirmative consent and continuing consent by making safe words a standard. So this isn't completely out of left field.

Edited December 16, 2015 by BlueIris

[jay1983]

Yeah go ahead and verbally ask her and watch her dry up quicker than some organic glue. There's no way to prove whether or not she was asked and the courts know that.

Edited December 19, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
rude ~T

[Woggle]

For the record no woman should ever be blamed for rape and any rapist should have the book thrown at him. That being said laws should not be vague and open to interpretation. If it is just a big grey area that nobody really understands then all it does is make every single male into a suspected rapist.

[sambolini]

Did you even read the wording of the law?

 

“Lack of protest or resistance does not mean consent, nor does silence mean consent. Affirmative consent must be ongoing throughout a sexual activity and can be revoked at any time.”

 

If we are all being honest here, many people don't really ask for sex anyway, it just happens. I have never once in my life came out and asked a woman if I can have sex with her. Now, not only must we come out and ask for sex like a child asks for candy, but as the part in bold states, we must continue asking for permission during the act of sex. This law reminds me of one of those stupid laws that have been on the books for 150 years and people laugh about. Except this law is new. Thanks to feminism, I, along with many other men posting in here, are technically rapists, according to their idiotic law.

 

We should actually do this. Stop right in the middle of the act and ask, "Are you ok with continuing?" If they say yes, then ask her to sign an affidavit to that effect.

 

Then watch what happens.

 

::grabs popcorn::

[xxoo]

You guys lack imagination.

 

"Yes! Yes! **** me! Give my your **** ****! YES!" <--verbal consent

[BlueIris]

You guys lack imagination.

 

"Yes! Yes! **** me! Give my your **** ****! YES!" <--verbal consent

 

:laugh:

 

Exactly.

 

And what's sexier than saying, "what's your safeword?" Nothing!

 

Talking is an aphrodisiac.

[sambolini]

You guys lack imagination.

 

"Yes! Yes! **** me! Give my your **** ****! YES!" <--verbal consent

 

Great in spirit, lacking in execution.

 

All she has to do is say "he raped me", in spite of the fact she enthusiastically gave her consent during. But with no documentation to that effect, it's his word against hers. Who would the courts believe based on how the law is written?

 

Even if we accept the assertion that the number of false accusations are low, it's prudent not to put oneself in a potentially dangerous situation.

 

Never have sex in California (unless you're David Dochovny).

Edited December 17, 2015 by sambolini

[xxoo]

 

Even if we accept the assertion that the number of false accusations are low, it's prudent not to put oneself in a potentially dangerous situation.

 

Never have sex in California (unless you're David Dochovny).

 

Given the rate of false accusation vs. the rate of sexual assault, by this logic advise to women would be: never be alone with a man.

 

Of course, that's absurd.

 

Women (and girls) live with the risk of sexual assault. The fact that we need laws defining what is and is not consent stems from the high rate of sexual assault.

[sambolini]

Given the rate of false accusation vs. the rate of sexual assault, by this logic advise to women would be: never be alone with a man.

 

Of course, that's absurd.

 

Women (and girls) live with the risk of sexual assault. The fact that we need laws defining what is and is not consent stems from the high rate of sexual assault.

 

And some women never choose to be alone with a man. That's their right.

 

It doesn't matter if you believe it's absurd. The decision is not up to you, and your feelings are irrelevant.

 

Consent is a two way street. And some men choose to not consent.