Dealing with wife's affair.

[Naively.Sensitive]

Do you know how cheap that sounds, your forgiveness is based on the level of depravity she is willing to show you? Exchanging forgiveness for sex is just the wrong reason for staying in a relationship. If your asking her to do things with you she did with other man that she wasn't willing to do with you before is different to what I believe your asking her for. I think you need to talk to a counsellor before you really mess this up any more then it already is. Make sure o/m's wife got your note, try sending it by registered mail so she signs for it.

 

I know it sounds cheap (atleast I'm being completely honest and responsible by expressing my needs for recovery), but the reality is that I don't expect it in a "demeaning" way, but rather as an expression of love and care of a wife who would easily do this for her husband (and there is nothing immoral if its within the boundaries of this sacred relationship). More in particular because my wife also enjoyed the sex and passion as was evident to me from times (during the first 3 months of hysterical bonding) when she was enthusiastic about video taping (She even asked why I didn't buy a second videocamera for another angle).

If she also enjoys the sex and attention (I have always been very respectful and attentive of her needs during sex) and it helps her husband get over the trauma, what is wrong with that expectation that I have?

 

I also did ask my individual counsellor about if the sex videos would be damaging in any way (psychologically) to her, (in her presence I asked) and the psychologist said it would not be damaging if my wife was wiling (And she was willing in the first 4 months after DDay).

 

We may soon start seeing a joint counsellor again and I will bring up this fact that I suffer from the mental images and trauma and what I know will help me (the sex videos).

 

I will start a separate thread on this topic or perhaps start another thread on "hysterical bonding" as they are related.

[aliveagain]

Friend, I was where you are today on more then one occasion. Your giving her to much control by expecting someone this broken to save you because she may not be able to. Your betting your recovery and future relationship on someone that after 8 months is still sleeping in another bedroom and wants more time to think about staying or leaving the relationship. As I said in an earlier post, none of you would be in this position if she hadn't allowed sex to be put on the table, no rape occurred and she kept going back for more until she was put in a position of discovery. If she thinks that he is now a predator what does she think of you and your new demands? Sex happens when two people agree to it, as an example you and your wife or your wife and other man.

 

Making you a sandwich or a coffee doesn't make you a couple committing to the marriage equally does. My point is, wouldn't you want a fully committed partner to be in a relationship with? If she can't commit to you stop trying to negotiate a position. Don't make it her decision because you'll still be in limbo a year from now. There is only one way to push someone off the fence, don't waste your life on someone that can't or won't give you what you want.

[Naively.Sensitive]

I think I see where you are coming from. You desire that she use sex to prove that she wants you and only you, and that you are not Plan B.

 

However, your focusing on the sex as showing remorse,, will be your undoing. You are using it almost as a weapon. You will forever taint sex. You should stop this immediately. IF YOU WISH TO RECONCILE, seperate your sex life from the infidelity.

 

However you wish to proceed, change course on this approach. Take sex COMPLETELY off the table. Then go silent on the topic. This may go against everything you feel right now, but twisting sex for any reason, other than the joy of it, is playing with fire.

 

This will require enormous strength. But it is time you started showing some.

 

I don't bring up this desire in conversation with her. I have not, for the past 5 months. There were about 3 or 4 instances over 5 months ago when I initially suggested it and when I did get angry (on one occassion) when she was a little apprehensive and I desperately needed to feel a sexual connection. In the last 5 months I have never brought this up, but she does confront me about it from time to time when I'm in pain or in an angry mood. When she does confront me about it, I honestly do tell her that I think sex would help me.

 

The approach I have been trying is to not deny mentioning this need of mine of sex from her (only if she asks again and again). I don't bring it up myself and am silent about it.

 

I deal with my need to feel sexually worthy by watching some porn (when she is not around).

 

I cannot NOT deal with what I need to overcome times in the day of extreme trauma and pain. All I can do is not involve her in my needs. But eventually, her unwillingness to help me in my pain is also adding more pain and building a belief within me that she really does not care about or love me. That belief is something I cannot easily change, as reality and facts always present themselves by her behaviors and actions.

[Naively.Sensitive]

Friend, I was where you are today on more then one occasion. Your giving her to much control by expecting someone this broken to save you because she may not be able to. Your betting your recovery and future relationship on someone that after 8 months is still sleeping in another bedroom and wants more time to think about staying or leaving the relationship. As I said in an earlier post, none of you would be in this position if she hadn't allowed sex to be put on the table, no rape occurred and she kept going back for more until she was put in a position of discovery. If she thinks that he is now a predator what does she think of you and your new demands? Sex happens when two people agree to it, as an example you and your wife or your wife and other man.

 

Making you a sandwich or a coffee doesn't make you a couple committing to the marriage equally does. My point is, wouldn't you want a fully committed partner to be in a relationship with? If she can't commit to you stop trying to negotiate a position. Don't make it her decision because you'll still be in limbo a year from now. There is only one way to push someone off the fence, don't waste your life on someone that can't or won't give you what you want.

 

That is why I have decided to give the relationship a chance for only a timebound constraint of another 6 months. (and explicitly mentioned my decision to her about the time constraints). That way we know what we only have a certain amount of time to try things and there would be no regrets.

[road]

It is fair for the BH to get the same hot sex the WW gave the OM.

 

 

Specially when the WW did things with the OM that she never did with her BH.

 

 

Double when the WW did things with the OM that she refused to do for her BH in the past.

 

 

Problem is when the BH says Do It that does not put the WW in the mood to Do It.

 

 

Also when the WW is trying to forget the OM and lose the feelings for the OM the BH's requests make her remember the OM.

 

 

Something's were never wise to do before an affair, during an affair, so those things still will never be wise to do after an affair.

 

 

Such as sex videos. There is nothing stopping her OM from putting up sex videos of WW on the internet. I am sure your WW regrets making those videos. The BH saying you made sex videos with the OM, so you have to make sex videos with or I will not be able to get over your affair is basically black mail. Specially when she regrets making those sex videos now.

 

 

Black mail is not how the OM made your WW a porn star.

[66Charger]

Being reduced to watching porn because of a affair, must really suck. I dont think any of us are saying that you are "wrong" but perhaps you are handling it wrong. Nevertheless, I see flashes of anger coming from you now. You may be entering the anger phase. The indignity of this all will now come into focus. Keep posting. Change is coming.

[Naively.Sensitive]

It is fair for the BH to get the same hot sex the WW gave the OM.

 

 

Specially when the WW did things with the OM that she never did with her BH.

 

 

Double when the WW did things with the OM that she refused to do for her BH in the past.

 

 

Problem is when the BH says Do It that does not put the WW in the mood to Do It.

 

 

Also when the WW is trying to forget the OM and lose the feelings for the OM the BH's requests make her remember the OM.

 

 

Something's were never wise to do before an affair, during an affair, so those things still will never be wise to do after an affair.

 

 

Such as sex videos. There is nothing stopping her OM from putting up sex videos of WW on the internet. I am sure your WW regrets making those videos. The BH saying you made sex videos with the OM, so you have to make sex videos with or I will not be able to get over your affair is basically black mail. Specially when she regrets making those sex videos now.

 

 

Black mail is not how the OM made your WW a porn star.

 

There were no videos made between the WW and OM, to the best of my and her knowledge, although the OM did secretly record an audio clip in which the WW confessed her love towards him. The OM sent that audio clip to the WW, blackmailing her into apologizing to his wife for the affair. Probably so that he could try to still keep his own wife and marriage, inspite of the affair.

 

I am doing nothing of the sort of blackmail towards my wife. Just explicitly saying what I need to recover when asked.

[Naively.Sensitive]

Being reduced to watching porn because of a affair, must really suck. I dont think any of us are saying that you are "wrong" but perhaps you are handling it wrong. Nevertheless, I see flashes of anger coming from you now. You may be entering the anger phase. The indignity of this all will now come into focus. Keep posting. Change is coming.

 

I'm really a tormented human and have been for the past 9 months. My wife cheated on me, moved out of the bedroom, expects me to forget and forgive her and I have to deal with all this **** and also deal with my own emotional pain and suffering, literally hanging off a thread in emotional disarray, needing to speak to a few friends on the phone, just to know that I'm not going insane. None of this even seems real. I feel like its all just a bad dream, but a dream that may last a very very long time.

I have to play games with my mind, to acknowledge the pain just enough so that it doesn't return to me more furiously.

 

Yes, I also get really angry at many times during the day. Angry with life, angry with destiny, angry at myself and most of all, angry at my wife.

When a person does not even remember haven chosen to be born, and is handed so much suffering and pain, yes, Life IS f*c*ing unfair.

[S2B]

How do you expect her to save you when she can't save herself?

[Naively.Sensitive]

How do you expect her to save you when she can't save herself?

 

What does "saving herself" really mean? Being able to get over her guilt? Or something else?

If she seems to be getting along with her life and doing what is needed to live it on a daily basis, doesn't that mean that she has already "saved herself"?

[ch72]

I stand by my last post, if she can't emotionally connect with you after 9 months, file for divorce.

 

BTW, save yourself 1st before thinking about her. Don't let her sink and drag you down with her.

 

File for divorce, and if she just walks away then you know she never wanted to reconcile with you.

 

Things she could say

 

You aren't fighting for me. (BS, she should be fighting to get you back)

 

I need more time and space. (The divorce will give her all the time and space she needs)

 

I can't reconnect with you physically yet. (The other man took 7 months to cough*seduce*cough her, yet you're at the 9 month mark and she's blowing you off still)

 

What do I see, it's all about her and she knows you're just going to let her do it. Because you've never put your foot down and say "F" this "S", it's my way now. You bluster, fluff your feathers but in the end when she scowls you slink away and pout in silence.

 

It's simple

 

Honey, it's been 9 months and it's time for a change. If you can't meet my needs it's time for us to divorce and go our own way.

 

Then just walk away from her. Don't even wait for a reply, just walk away, out of the house and go hang out with a friend. She'll either blow up your phone or she'll finally realize it's over and give you a divorce. Either way, you'll finally know what path you're going to take and move on with your life. Limbo sucks, don't be one of those who get stuck it in and 10 years later you realize that you should have bailed at this point.

 

STOP WAITING FOR HER TO MAKE A DECISION.

 

My wife gave me 24 hrs at the end. She waited a month with me going back and forth trying to have both the wife and the OW. When she finally realized it wasn't going to change, I had 24 hrs. Stay or GET OUT.

[Jersey born raised]

Enough, it has been 8 months. A lot of advise needs to be viewed with that in mind. Yes or no, Has she been NC, is she where she should be when she be there? Either shyt or get off the pot. I understand triggers but your acting the Martyr.

 

Learn to be bold in speaking with your wife. How many months did she spend in the other bedroom because she thought you didn't want her in your's? Good communication eh? Accept you need to be blunt, but not crude when any women.

 

At one point you stated the marriage was good before the affair. In fact she described it as still in the honeymoon stage. Two sentence later you state you had been in MC for three years. Huh?

 

Adultery is not fair, it never will be. If you truly reconcile it will not be fair she gets a better marriage and got to F$ck around. At some point So What ?

It comes down to living aware, but taking a leap of blind faith and going all in.

 

LIVE AWARE that is the key and stop dragging her though the mud.

[HereNorThere]

After reading this long thread, there's something that's just painfully obvious.

 

You haven't hit the acceptance stage of grief yet. It's like you somehow think there is path that leads back to your old life (or at least what you thought was your old life.)

 

Here are some of the things you need to accept:

 

Your wife isn't in love with you anymore. Sorry, but she just isn't. Hell, she won't even sleep in the same bed with you. She may love you, but she isn't in love with you. Most likely, she's just scared of moving on just like you are.

 

Your wife isn't a victim. If I buy a gun at Wal-Mart, am I a victim of Wal-Mart? Every woman knows that a lot of men will say or do whatever to have sex with someone. I bet your wife wouldn't walk around the ghetto flashing money trying to buy crack at 3 a.m. She's smart enough to know that would probably get her robbed. Sorry man, but she's not that naive. If it wasn't her boss, it would have been some other sleazy guy and mostly like has been before.

 

Your wife doesn't have the same capacity for empathy as you do. That's why she is unable to console you when you need it. Let's face it, if she had the level of empathy that's required to save your relationship, she wouldn't have done this in the first place.

 

Your wife doesn't really want to reconcile. Tough to hear, but even the worst people can fake it long enough to get what they want. The minimal amount of effort that she's put it into this only proves my point.

 

When she does try to console you, it's not because she cares about your feelings. The truth is that seeing you fall apart is a reminder of her poor character. Your tears inconvenience her, so of course she would like it to stop.

 

Despite what anyone says here, statistically speaking, she's much more likely to cheat again (google it!) You may hear some anecdotal evidence that this situation makes her less likely to cheat, but the numbers do not back that up. I do think there are some people who had their whole life destroyed by cheating and learned a lesson, but those are usually people who faced some sort of consequence. She has zero investment in you or your relationship, so threatening to divorce isn't much of a threat to her. I suspect she just wants you to pull the plug so it will be easier to blame this mess on you.

 

And here's the thing that's going to be the hardest thing that you have to accept - You were wrong about her. You had an idea of who she is and what she is capable of and you were wrong. Most of us have a pretty fragile ego and it's hard to accept that we made such a monumental mistake when judging someone's character. I mean, this is the person you chose to have children with and now you know that they have to spend the rest of their lives with a mother that doesn't really care about their well-being as much as you do. It's hard to admit that to yourself, I know. However, it's still best that you start dealing with all this now so that you can be in a better position to protect them in the future. It won't be long until she still parading a ton of different men into their lives and you need to be prepared for that.

 

Good luck and godspeed. Please, get yourself into some intensive therapy with a real doctor. We're all rooting for you and I promise you that once you remove this cancer from your life, things will start to get better. Focus on yourself (health, working out, making friends, looking for apartments, etc) and spending time with your children. Every moment you can spend not thinking about her is a victory!

Edited December 30, 2015 by HereNorThere

[Naively.Sensitive]

I'm a BH and my WW cheated on me about a year ago, in a 4 month long affair.

One of the realizations that I have come to is that we both came from dysfunctional families (most people fall into this category in the world, so i'm not trying to gather any sympathy) and had developed fairly moderate to large codependencies between each other as a result of our emotional imprints from childhood and youth.

 

My question is this:

Would this codependency come in the way of either or both of us deciding if the relationship and marriage is worth salvaging?

I'm (the betrayed husband) in terrible pain and suffering for the last 9 months and have been desperately trying to "make things work". My wife has also not "walked out" (She claims our relationship was bad enough before her affair). We are both trying to make things work since the last 9 months, but the reality is that our relationship has been completely destroyed and the trust, respect and feelings have also disappeared.

I'm not sure if I will ever be able to develop feelings of love and passion for her ever again, and I'm guessing she may be in the same predicament.

Could it be that the only reason we are continuing is that we may be codependent on each other because of being in marriage for 15 years with 2 kids?

If this is true, then how long could we go on like this and what are the psychological implications? Would our codependency just worsen as a result of this over time?

What would be other ways of dealing with this? Should we try to break our codependencies first, before working on the relationship or the other way around?

It seems to me that my happiness is also deeply connected to the relationship and to wanting a very passionate relationship. Should I allow myself this "want", or try to develop an emotional detachment, using the affair as an opportunity to do so? Is the relationship more likely to heal if we first try to break the codependencies?

 

Here is an account of my experience of the affair, if it helps answer the above questions:

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/561922-dealing-wife-s-affair

[TaraMaiden2]

You've created five threads in 27 minutes, on the same subject. I'm afraid I think you're coming across as needy and desperate.

Are you seeing a therapist?

Seriously, I think you really should.

For your own good.

 

Don't take this as an insult, I'm genuinely concerned you're uber-focusing on pain, rather than progress....

[VeveCakes]

Yes, it's been 9 months...what has triggered you today?

[HereNorThere]

You may be codependent on her, but it doesn't seem like she has any co-dependency issues relating to you. She's so independent of you that she moved out of the bedroom and started seeing other people.

 

Truthfully, all marriages require some level of codependency and that's okay. The real issue here is that YOU are in a marriage, but she's not. She broke the rules and had a taste of what it's like to be single and free without telling you. At this point, you are in a competition with all the other men for her attention and nothing turns a woman off faster than a needy man. You shouldn't have to deal with garbage like this, but if you choose to, you need to realize what is really going on here. You won't win her back by trying to salvage the relationship, but you may be able to by acting like a meat head at a frat house (but I still wouldn't recommend it.)

 

The faster you realize that your wife has regressed into a horny teenage girl, the better equipped you will be to deal with all of this.

[Naively.Sensitive]

Wife had a 4 month affair. Husband (I) have been completely broken and in severe pain for 9 months, since she confessed.

This I know..... I truly loved her before the affair and could have given my life for her (maybe not unconditionally, but certainly as much as was humanly possible for me). Now, I have completely lost those feelings for her in which I could do anything for her, other than just basic care as I would care for a human being and the mother of our 2 kids. I still do love her, but not to the extent I once did.

 

I obviously don't have unconditional love for her, and even though I have been trying to develop it, these are the worst circumstances under which I can try to develop unconditional love for anyone, let alone my wife.

 

Now, my questions are these:

 

1) If I'm expecting hysterical bonding or sex (expecting but not demanding or manipulating to try to get) from her, and if she is not able to give it to me willingly out of her own initiative (she moved out of the bedroom about 5 months ago), then is that a sign that she has also lost feelings for me? (or lost feelings for me even before the affair happened). Everyday, I'm in terrible emotional pain and some physical pain, with many bouts of crying profusely through the day. I hardly get much sleep at night and have lost much appetite. Anyway, inspite of all this, if she is not able to support me emotionally, physically and sexually, does it mean that she no longer has any feelings left for me?

 

If she truly loved me, would she have been there for me, doing anything I needed for recovery? (That happened in the first 4 months of hysterical bonding, and after that she moved out of the bedroom to another bedroom). If she is not able to passionately reconnect with me (emotionally and sexually), is that a sign she does not love me anymore or could it be a sign of some other reason?

 

2) Is there a possibility that her guilt and loss of self-esteem overrides her love and she feels unworthy of being intimate or having sex with me and passionately trying to reignite the relationship in kinky and sexy ways of my choosing?

 

3) Is my decision to stay and try to work it out with her (inspite of my tremendous pain) ANY expression of my love towards her, or would that not be considered any particular expression of love? I even once told her that I'm pretty sure I could eventually forgive her if she is able to make me feel truly loved by her, doing anything legal and moral (emotionally and sexually) that I needed, to feel secure and "resolved" with trauma of her affair.

 

Here is my original post, detailing the affair (if it helps answer my questions above):

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/561922-dealing-wife-s-affair

[VeveCakes]

You need to read what was posted in your other thread. How many threads are you going to post today?

[Naively.Sensitive]

Yes, it's been 9 months...what has triggered you today?

 

I have been trying to deal with the affair in many different ways. Nothing has completely worked, other than just providing some temporary relief.

My posting on this forum is an "all out" effort to try even this, not just for relief, but for perspectives and solutions that could possibly permanently heal me and get rid of the pain.

Also, I have been off from work, so this has been the perfect opportunity for me to type all these verbose messages to explain all the problems and try to find a solution from the gracious and giving members here (Whom I am very grateful for by the way)

[VeveCakes]

One big thread might be more helpful.

 

This forum is a great place for advice so I would read the replies and let it sink in what others have been through.

[ladydesigner]

I have been trying to deal with the affair in many different ways. Nothing has completely worked, other than just providing some temporary relief.

My posting on this forum is an "all out" effort to try even this, not just for relief, but for perspectives and solutions that could possibly permanently heal me and get rid of the pain.

Also, I have been off from work, so this has been the perfect opportunity for me to type all these verbose messages to explain all the problems and try to find a solution from the gracious and giving members here (Whom I am very grateful for by the way)

 

(((Naively.Sensitive))) how far out are you from Dday? how many Ddays have you had?

[Naively.Sensitive]

You may be codependent on her, but it doesn't seem like she has any co-dependency issues relating to you. She's so independent of you that she moved out of the bedroom and started seeing other people.

 

Truthfully, all marriages require some level of codependency and that's okay. The real issue here is that YOU are in a marriage, but she's not. She broke the rules and had a taste of what it's like to be single and free without telling you. At this point, you are in a competition with all the other men for her attention and nothing turns a woman off faster than a needy man. You shouldn't have to deal with garbage like this, but if you choose to, you need to realize what is really going on here. You won't win her back by trying to salvage the relationship, but you may be able to by acting like a meat head at a frat house (but I still wouldn't recommend it.)

 

The faster you realize that your wife has regressed into a horny teenage girl, the better equipped you will be to deal with all of this.

 

She did move out of the bedroom, but is not seeing other people (to the best of my knowledge and her direct responses to my questions)

 

I do realize the psychological impact of being a needy and weeping husband towards a wife who cheated. That is only my natural reaction and its very hard to digress from it.

 

My question is this: Lets say I somehow fake myself by not being so needy, but yet ask her for a deep emotional connection, and ask her for passionate sex like never before. Would that not be enough motivation or attraction for her to continue to want to be that horny teenage girl that she might have wanted to be and just "go for it" with her husband? Heck, even I would like for her to be a horny teenage girl, except with me, not with someone else. I mean, I want the same thing she does, but why is she not going for it with me? 3 days ago, when on vacation, she did want to shower with me and so I did, and she kissed me on my lips. Why is it taking so long for her to emotionally reconnect with me and let me give her orgasm after orgasm with my dick and send shivers of pleasure through her body?

 

We had already discussed sexual attraction several months ago and she told me that sexual attraction or attraction towards me as a mate was not an issue for her. I know this because for many months she was the one who used to approach me for sex, although very subtly and shyly.

 

If she was and is missing it, then why all the fuss when your husband is giving and asking it of you and it will also help him recover from the trauma of your affair?

[Naively.Sensitive]

(((Naively.Sensitive))) how far out are you from Dday? how many Ddays have you had?

 

Its been almost exactly 9 months.

 

The first 4 months had some very good hysterical bonding and sex and to a large degree it was starting to help me, but then she stopped and moved out of the bedroom.

 

I have tried to analyze why, but her response was that she was not able to deal with my dual and opposing reactions of anger, disgust, pain vs. a feeling of positivity that things were working out and that I would be able to forgive her. She once told me that she felt used and felt that after I recovered, I may eventually dump her anyway. I assured her that I was not "using" her. She seemed to think I was manipulating her to just use her for sex. That is completely untrue. I also sent her some articles highlighting that it was common for people to feel strong opposing emotions when in extreme trauma. She is also aware of my slight bipolar tendencies when I was in depression and meds, about 6 years ago when my aunt passed away.

 

Now, I'm trying to get back to that phase of hysterical bonding that we were in, 9 months ago.

[HereNorThere]

Face it, dude - She's just not that into you. It's that freaking simple. When I say she is a horny teenage girl, I'm not referring to her libido. I'm referring to her level of maturity and how seriously she takes relationships.

 

In her mind, she's single and free now. You may speak with words, but women are much more symbolic and rely on "feelings" more than men do. You can talk to your blue in the face and it doesn't matter to her because she's primal. It's like trying to explain physics to a pug when you really just need to put a gate so it doesn't fall down the stairs. She is showing you with her actions that this relationship is OVER. I mean, how much more does she need to show you? If moving out of the bedroom, denying you intimacy while having relationships with other people isn't enough for you, what is? Does she need to stab you with a rusty hatchet?

 

You aren't going to think or talk your way out of this. That life you had is completely over now and there is no way you ever, ever get it back. This all seems new to you, but she checked out a long time ago. If there was any pain or issues for her, she's had a lot longer to get past them. She was dealing with this long before she started the affair. The affair was a symptom of her checking out, not the other way around.

 

And I could be completely wrong, but in my experience with these issues, she's denying you sex because she doesn't want to cheat on her boyfriend. He's probably told her that he won't sleep with her if she sleeps with you and/or has a lot of things he can blackmail her with. I can't prove it, but I would bet money on it. There are lots of little things in your post that make me believe she's never actually stopped cheating. By her actions alone, she either has zero interest in saving the relationship or she is still in the affair fog. My money is on the fog, straight up.