Dealing with wife's affair.

[OneLov]

I would shut down if my wife did this to me.

 

^^^ Me too. I've actually ended a LTR because of it. It was a very conflicting and confusing time in my life. She was so good in almost every way, but there was something that caused the death of all intimacy. I wanted to avoid her; I'd cringe when she touched me. I was so confused. Then I learned about psychological enmeshment; it all made sense after that.

 

NS, please try to give her some space before you push her out of reach.

 

 

"When we feel lonely we keep looking for a person or persons who can take our loneliness away. Our lonely hearts cry out, "Please hold me, touch me, speak to me, pay attention to me." But soon we discover that the person we expect to take our loneliness away cannot give us what we ask for. Often that person feels oppressed by our demands and runs away, leaving us in despair. As long as we approach another person from our loneliness, no mature human relationship can develop. Clinging to one another in loneliness is suffocating and eventually becomes destructive." ~ Henri Nouwen

Edited February 16, 2016 by OneLov

[BettyDraper]

This is an example of a BH that only wants to punish his WW. Sadly he will not get the professional help he needs to heal. His actions are also not allowing his WW to heal.

 

 

OP, you have been posting here a long time, not open to suggestions and doing your things your own way.

 

 

So how well has your been working out for you? Not well from reading your posts.

 

 

Time to change how you are handling things. At this point get professional help then make the decision with their professional guidance to divorce or recover. Then follow the right steps to take which ever path that you take.

 

I must say that when someone posts here for advice, refuses to consider suggestions and keeps asking the same questions repeatedly....I am far less amenable to helping that particular LS member.

 

Obviously nobody is required to follow our advice but then I can't see the reason for starting threads in the first place.

 

NS, my sense is that you don't care what we have to say. It's going in through one ear and out the other. It's heartbreaking to watch you push away your wife.

[Naively.Sensitive]

IDK, how would you comfort yourself if you suffered a trauma and you had never married her? Oh, right - you would just DO IT.

 

The problem here is that you have TRANSFERRED all your weight onto her and you are suffocating her. Why do you think she moved out of the bedroom?

 

What we have been trying to tell you is this - please read it very carefully:

 

She was wrong to cheat. We all acknowledge it. But what you did AFTER she cheated is NOT normal, NOT healthy, and will NOT get you OR her the peace you both need. Yes, BSs cry. They obsess. They ask questions. But the DEGREE to which you are doing it - nine months later - is bordering on mental health issues. YOURS, not hers.

 

This is no longer about her, or what she did, or what she owes you. This is now about what are YOU going to do with YOUR therapist, with YOUR doctor, with YOUR life...to grab your britches, get your butt up off the floor, and start living life. You are harming yourself by being THIS MESSED UP this far along, you are harming her and any chance you have at reconciliation (I predict she's going to file for divorce in the next two or three months), and you are ABSOLUTELY harming your CHILDREN with your inability to get a grip.

 

This is the legacy you are leaving them. Think about it. My parents interacted with me maybe 4 or 5 days' worth of time about all their troubles, and it's profoundly messed me up for life. Your kids are having to LIVE this sh*t, day in and day out, and you are shaping how messed up they are going to be for life, and I promise it will be far worse than I've dealt with.

 

If you won't get your sh*t together - with the help of a team of professionals - for yourself, at LEAST do it for them.

 

I'm able to recognize that I really need help. I am **** scared of my conditions, of the extreme pain, panic and confusion.

I'm going to take the first available appointment with an individual counselor and also get onto the right medication as soon as possible.

[Naively.Sensitive]

^^^ Me too. I've actually ended a LTR because of it. It was a very conflicting and confusing time in my life. She was so good in almost every way, but there was something that caused the death of all intimacy. I wanted to avoid her; I'd cringe when she touched me. I was so confused. Then I learned about psychological enmeshment; it all made sense after that.

 

NS, please try to give her some space before you push her out of reach.

 

 

"When we feel lonely we keep looking for a person or persons who can take our loneliness away. Our lonely hearts cry out, "Please hold me, touch me, speak to me, pay attention to me." But soon we discover that the person we expect to take our loneliness away cannot give us what we ask for. Often that person feels oppressed by our demands and runs away, leaving us in despair. As long as we approach another person from our loneliness, no mature human relationship can develop. Clinging to one another in loneliness is suffocating and eventually becomes destructive." ~ Henri Nouwen

 

I am able to see all these perspectives. Thank you for telling me all this. I will do something to deal with my own loneliness and not depend on my wife to console me. If she does console me of her own accord, I will take it, but I will not expect or demand it. I realize what is happening here. I was feeling entitled, because she is my wife and because it was HER wrong doings that caused me this massive injury, but I will ween off this feeling of entitlement, even though its very hurtful to feel like the one person whom I thought would be there for me no matter what is the same person I have to let go off. I have to try to make myself believe that I really AM all alone in the world and if I have to heal, it is only upto me.

[turnera]

I have to try to make myself believe that I really AM all alone in the world and if I have to heal, it is only up to me.

As it always has been. For all of us.

 

Marriage is supposed to be supplemental to our own happiness. Not the lifeforce of it. I'm glad you're getting help.

[Naively.Sensitive]

You have said quite a lot of times that when it comes to your emotional reactions you don't have a choice. I recognize that feeling but when describing myself I've said, '....but I have to get up every single day & be perky for my kids. I don't have a choice!'.

 

If your wife wasn't taking all the weight with your kids you could be leaving her all weekend to think about things while you're out having fun, quality time... That's why I wrote those posts to you before. I believe that I've coped better (with lots of things, my spine, my health etc) because I've had to!

 

There's the saying "Fake it until you make it!". It will make you feel better! If you divorce you will be alone with your kids every other weekend anyway.

 

No matter what someone has done to you they will eventually run out of stamina trying to live with the constant yo yo, roller coaster, passive aggressive, "love me", "Don't touch me!", "show me passion", "no I won't hold your hand", "hold me when I cry", "get out of the bedroom!"..... I know it sounds horrible but when you constantly display your emotions (which you have no grip on) it makes it IMPOSSIBLE for your wife to know what to do from one moment to the next.

 

She contacted you from the airport just to connect, to show she was thinking of you. If you had responded, "Good! Sally looked so cute in that new dress you bought her & Harry said that he is missing you already ?" or whatever, you're far more likely to get a "I love you & miss you too" kind of response. Your communication isn't natural because you're picking apart & second guessing everything she says & does.

 

 

It's been 9 months (about 7 since my true d-day) of course there are going to be bad days & terrible triggers. I understand your pain, I truly do but isn't this endless misery exhausting?

 

You can't carry-on like this. Somethings got to give. She says "Hello" & you say "What does that mean?". Both of you must be so close to the edge by now. I'm frightened that you're going to get served with divorce papers when you could of reconciled. I believe that reconciliation is what BOTH of you want but she's only going to be able to tolerate so much.

 

Some may argue that she's getting everything she deserves. Kick harder!!

 

I'm lost really.

 

I understand everything you're saying. If my pain wasn't so severe, things might have been a little different. I have an appointment for Individual Counseling, starting in about 2 weeks. In the meantime, I plan to get prescriptions for anti-depression and anxiety.

I think I'm going to try really hard to "fake it till I make it". I will have to fake my feelings for her, until they really develop. The other aspect to this whole thing is that she has not been reaching out to me for any pain that she may be feeling. Does this mean she does not feel any pain or guilt or does it mean something else, like maybe she does not want to include me in her pain or in her life?

Can I ever expect her to say something like this to me one day, "I am feeling so guilty for my actions. I don't know what to do. Can you help me feel better by giving me a hug and telling me that you will not abandon me and that someday you will be able to completely forgive me?"

Why has she never been able to open up like that? Why has she not involved me in her life?

You know, to feel needed is very important for me, (and for any man I think). Her behavior only suggests that she does not need me. Why is she doing this?

[Naively.Sensitive]

As it always has been. For all of us.

 

Marriage is supposed to be supplemental to our own happiness. Not the lifeforce of it. I'm glad you're getting help.

 

While that maybe the truth and reality that both my wife and I am in the process of discovering, it is certainly not the cultural and social conditioning that we have grown up in.

In the cultural environment we have grown up in, there are romantic movies, sacrifice of feelings and emotions for the one you love, struggle against society to be with the one you love, the concept of "soul mate" and the union of 2 souls and 2 bodies into one. Its all very sacred, and a significant part of life in those cultural societies. It is very revered.

I'm not saying its right or wrong, but it has worked for so many couples.... Where one's happiness lies in the joint happiness of the family,... where there are no individual agendas to happiness.

This is the culture we have grown up in. Its a very very different culture.

[S2B]

While that maybe the truth and reality that both my wife and I am in the process of discovering, it is certainly not the cultural and social conditioning that we have grown up in.

In the cultural environment we have grown up in, there are romantic movies, sacrifice of feelings and emotions for the one you love, struggle against society to be with the one you love, the concept of "soul mate" and the union of 2 souls and 2 bodies into one. Its all very sacred, and a significant part of life in those cultural societies. It is very revered.

I'm not saying its right or wrong, but it has worked for so many couples.... Where one's happiness lies in the joint happiness of the family,... where there are no individual agendas to happiness.

This is the culture we have grown up in. Its a very very different culture.

 

And she obviously isn't living by the same standards that you subscribe to...

 

Glad you're getting some help now.

 

How do you know for sure she is on a business trip? Did anyone go with her?

[Naively.Sensitive]

NS, why are you so resistant to the idea of seeing a therapist?

You need far more help than Loveshack, your wife or anyone else can give you.

 

The level of obsession and neediness is very unhealthy and I don't blame your wife for being worried about you. I would be concerned about your mental state as well if I was in her position.

 

Stop depending on your wife for your emotional health. Both of you have children to be concerned about and it is imperative that you focus on your mental health for them. I saw that you mentioned being worried about your wife cheating during her business trip.....do you realize that your relentless insecurity is exactly what could push her into the arms of another man? Women don't respect men who constantly pressure them for comfort.

 

Find a therapist. TODAY.

 

I booked an appointment with my older therapist today. The first available one was 2 weeks away, so I have to find a way to keep going for 2 weeks. I plan to get prescriptions for antidepression and mood stabalizers from my local family doctor. I need to be able to survive from the emotional pain on a daily basis. That is currently a huge challenge for me.

[Naively.Sensitive]

And she obviously isn't living by the same standards that you subscribe to...

 

Glad you're getting some help now.

 

How do you know for sure she is on a business trip? Did anyone go with her?

 

I can't be sure, but she did video Skype with the kids from her hotel room and apparently also pointed the camera to say Hello to her female coworker who was traveling with her. I wasn't part of that video call, but I could hear her speak to the kids in that call.

[MJJean]

The other aspect to this whole thing is that she has not been reaching out to me for any pain that she may be feeling. Does this mean she does not feel any pain or guilt or does it mean something else, like maybe she does not want to include me in her pain or in her life?

Can I ever expect her to say something like this to me one day, "I am feeling so guilty for my actions. I don't know what to do. Can you help me feel better by giving me a hug and telling me that you will not abandon me and that someday you will be able to completely forgive me?"

Why has she never been able to open up like that? Why has she not involved me in her life?

You know, to feel needed is very important for me, (and for any man I think). Her behavior only suggests that she does not need me. Why is she doing this?

 

You have been so weak and needy, do you honestly think you inspire confidence in her? How could she possibly go to you with her feelings of guilt or her fears or her pain when you are such a wreck? You can't help yourself, so of course she doesn't look to you for help.

[BettyDraper]

I booked an appointment with my older therapist today. The first available one was 2 weeks away, so I have to find a way to keep going for 2 weeks. I plan to get prescriptions for antidepression and mood stabalizers from my local family doctor. I need to be able to survive from the emotional pain on a daily basis. That is currently a huge challenge for me.

 

Good for you! Exercise helps. Journaling can help as well. Borrow some books from your local library about infidelity.

If you can't find any, there is always amazon or Barnes and Noble. The doctor will decide if you need medication.

[thecharade]

After I had been married a while, I started feeling my H disappear. He grew more quiet, the decisions were mine to make virtually alone, he stopped taking care of himself and exercising, he just became completely agreeable in an almost invisible way--went to work and then came home and did as he was told. He was not the guy I dated who lifted weights and rode his bike daily, had hobbies and friends, and had very different views and interests. I begged him to look at himself. Why had he changed? We fought more, and he constantly said, "I love you." All I heard was, "I need you. Take care of me." It gave me the creeps, like an icky old man breathing on my neck. I started telling people, "I don't have three kids, I have four! But I really wish I had a husband!" But it was not funny. At all. I felt so, so, so alone. I went to IC weekly. One of my IC's asked about my H. "Oh, he's a nice guy. It's not him, it's me." I still remember the look on her face-- so sad for me. After years of drama and an A and a separation, we are both still in IC. He is trying to find himself again, realizing that he expected me to fill every void.

 

I am the life raft; he is drowning. And I just want a D. I want a partner. I did not sign up for this.

 

This is a cautionary true tale. Don't be us.

[ShatteredLady]

Oh NS you want this,

 

"Can I ever expect her to say something like this to me one day, "I am feeling so guilty for my actions. I don't know what to do. Can you help me feel better by giving me a hug and telling me that you will not abandon me and that someday you will be able to completely forgive me?"

 

From a woman who doesn't even know if she can reach to hold your hand or lay next to you on the bed. You're asking for vulnerability when you repeatedly state that you have no control of your emotions or reactions.

 

She doesn't know if you will hug her or push her away. She will not bare her soul to you until she knows that her words won't be used as ammunition against her. You can't have it both ways.... I'm controlled by my emotions so we can't predict how I will react at any given time AND I want you to need & be vulnerable for me.

 

If "How was your morning" can be twisted into a passive aggressive pedantic twist of words, what could "I need" result in?

 

You're being verbally abusive as your wife says. She does deserve it!!! She hurt you terribly. If you need to hurt her back. I get it. I truly do...but you don't get a reconciled loving, supportive relationship with passive aggressive behavior...it's a bloody nightmare to live with. For me, nothing raises the protective walls faster.

 

I clearly remember the moment that I decided that I was going to stop talking, really talking to my H. I knew it was a huge mistake for our relationship. Probably the beginning of the end. I analyzed my options & it was the only real choice I had. I couldn't take the silent treatment & the passive aggressive crap a moment longer. It was killing me.

 

I felt like I was on trial every moment of my life. It broke me! Completely killed the lady I used to be. If I'm always wrong. If every word or action can be used as ammunition against me, I'll just suffer in silence.

Edited February 17, 2016 by ShatteredLady

[turnera]

While that maybe the truth and reality that both my wife and I am in the process of discovering, it is certainly not the cultural and social conditioning that we have grown up in.

In the cultural environment we have grown up in, there are romantic movies, sacrifice of feelings and emotions for the one you love, struggle against society to be with the one you love, the concept of "soul mate" and the union of 2 souls and 2 bodies into one. Its all very sacred, and a significant part of life in those cultural societies. It is very revered.

I'm not saying its right or wrong, but it has worked for so many couples.... Where one's happiness lies in the joint happiness of the family,... where there are no individual agendas to happiness.

This is the culture we have grown up in. Its a very very different culture.

Yeah, and then most of us grow up and realize that's all just bullsh*t you watch on tv and it's not real life. Just took you a little longer to see it, is all.

[S2B]

If/when you can become a whole person who is independent and stands on their own - then you can add a healthy, whole person to a relationship.

 

That will be the bright side of all this. That you can progress and rely on yourself for your happiness.

 

I hope you will!

[OneLov]

I am the life raft; he is drowning. And I just want a D. I want a partner. I did not sign up for this.

 

^^^^ exactly like the enmeshed relationship I described in my previous post. I wanted a partner. The situation makes me think of that old Bob Dylan song, "It Ain't Me Babe."

[merrmeade]

... Can I ever expect her to say something like this to me one day, "I am feeling so guilty for my actions. I don't know what to do. Can you help me feel better by giving me a hug and telling me that you will not abandon me and that someday you will be able to completely forgive me?"

Why has she never been able to open up like that? Why has she not involved me in her life?

...Why is she doing this?

What if the answer is that she doesn't love you enough?

 

Furthermore, I don't think "why" matters any more. The fact is that she doesn't do these things, so what will YOU do about that.

[Mr Blunt]

Naively.Sensitive is not only Naïve and sensitive he is also stubborn and refusing to face reality. NS talks about his environment of ROMANTIC MOVIES and wanting his wife to be a DISNEY PRINCESS which shows that he is thinking like a teenager.

 

 

Originally Posted by Naively.Sensitive

In the cultural environment we have grown up in, there are romantic movies, sacrifice of feelings and emotions for the one you love, struggle against society to be with the one you love, the concept of "soul mate" and the union of 2 souls and 2 bodies into one.

 

By turnera

Yeah, and then most of us grow up and realize that's all just bullsh*t you watch on tv and it's not real life. Just took you a little longer to see it, is all.

 

BY: Naively.Sensitive

I admited to the counselor that although I had tried to independently heal, I had not been successful in that effort.I also explained to her why I felt that was so.

I explained to her that my entire idea of life (my dream) was of a wonderful relationship with a "disney princess", my wife, who would always be there for me, no matter what. I told her that I could not imagine my life with this dream continuing to be shattered.

The counselor tried to stress that perhaps I should try to imagine a "new dream", but I told her that I had tried to do that, but it was not possible for me.

By Blunt

Stop with the excuses and your dreams of a Disney princess!

The Disney princess is only at fantasyland in Disney world.

 

 

Now NS can TALK a good line but he takes very little action to back up his word as reprinted below. NS made the below statement a long time ago about his view on how to “heal independently” but has not taken enough strong action to get a lot stronger.

 

The vast majority of posts are in agreement about what NS should be doing and have been saying the same thing for over 800 posts over a period of months. NS keeps asking questions without enough action on the advice that he has asked for.

 

 

 

The TAM posters have tried soft approaches, encouraging approaches, hard approaches and more but it all boils down to NS; he has to make himself do more. Yes he should get all the help that he can because that is very important but he has to do more for himself. Thousands of men like NS have got a LOT better and much more self-sufficient and so can NS. He just has to talk less and take more actions.

 

 

 

 

NS are you going to ditch your naivety and face reality then take action so that you can get a lot better?

 

BY: Naively.Sensitive

Now, its just a matter of healing myself individually, and I'm NOT waiting for her to help me do it. Maybe this is exactly what Life has presented me with, to make me stronger, to heal independently so that I will never be codependent on someone ever again

[merrmeade]

What if the answer is that she doesn't love you enough?

 

Furthermore, I don't think "why" matters any more. The fact is that she doesn't do these things, so what will YOU do about that.

NS, I reread this page this morning and regret this post ^^^^. Now, that I reread your post #1157, I feel we're finally getting somewhere. As far as I'm concerned, it's the most insightful thing you've said about yourself.

[brothers343]

Infidelity is hard for anybody....especially man. I know I wouldn't be able to forget my wife but In the end its up to you to forgive. You have young kids and that would make it harder to leave. The questions that remain are; are you willing to forgive her and know that you will never be the same man again with her and your marriege will never be the same again either. Good luck.

[merrmeade]

Yeah, and then most of us grow up and realize that's all just bullsh*t you watch on tv and it's not real life. Just took you a little longer to see it, is all.

NO! This ^^^ is not at all what he's saying.

While that maybe the truth and reality that both my wife and I am in the process of discovering, it is certainly not the cultural and social conditioning that we have grown up in.

In the cultural environment we have grown up in, there are romantic movies, sacrifice of feelings and emotions for the one you love, struggle against society to be with the one you love, the concept of "soul mate" and the union of 2 souls and 2 bodies into one. Its all very sacred, and a significant part of life in those cultural societies. It is very revered.

I'm not saying its right or wrong, but it has worked for so many couples.... Where one's happiness lies in the joint happiness of the family,... where there are no individual agendas to happiness.

This is the culture we have grown up in. Its a very very different culture.

NS, I feel this pain for you because I know and love this aspect of your culture. As I've told you privately, I've spent many years of my life there. I have seen and been close to this attitude and reality you describe. I have seen how people "fall in love" after marriage (rather than before) and treat each other with tenderness and deep respect for life as they dedicate themselves to their families together. It absolutely works there and is beautiful to see when it does.

 

I've wondered what your wife's background is. Was she born here or there? Did she grow up with the same ideals intact as you? Because it is not working for you either individually or as a couple, and you must figure out what you must do about that.

 

I am from a western culture. My parents had a very strong marriage and were very independent people. It worked for them. But I do not compare their marriage with the marriages I've seen in your culture. Also, NS, there is more and more divorce in your culture as well. It does NOT work for everyone these days.

 

The cultural expectations absolutely cannot be underestimated here, and you MUST explain them very carefully to your therapist. THEN, NS, you must promise me that you will watch and listen carefully to whether or not your therapist really and truly gets it and adjusts his/her guidance accordingly. If not, you must change and keep up your hope.

 

Next, and most important, I want you to think about this, NS, and consider making it a theme of your therapy:

You are - in my opinion - possibly grieving the loss of this cultural ideal and expectation that you

so

eloquently describe in post #1157. You are staggering and confused from this loss because you don't know how to replace it or with what. This is what therapy is about for any of us.

Edited February 17, 2016 by merrmeade

[Naively.Sensitive]

After I had been married a while, I started feeling my H disappear. He grew more quiet, the decisions were mine to make virtually alone, he stopped taking care of himself and exercising, he just became completely agreeable in an almost invisible way--went to work and then came home and did as he was told. He was not the guy I dated who lifted weights and rode his bike daily, had hobbies and friends, and had very different views and interests. I begged him to look at himself. Why had he changed? We fought more, and he constantly said, "I love you." All I heard was, "I need you. Take care of me." It gave me the creeps, like an icky old man breathing on my neck. I started telling people, "I don't have three kids, I have four! But I really wish I had a husband!" But it was not funny. At all. I felt so, so, so alone. I went to IC weekly. One of my IC's asked about my H. "Oh, he's a nice guy. It's not him, it's me." I still remember the look on her face-- so sad for me. After years of drama and an A and a separation, we are both still in IC. He is trying to find himself again, realizing that he expected me to fill every void.

 

I am the life raft; he is drowning. And I just want a D. I want a partner. I did not sign up for this.

 

This is a cautionary true tale. Don't be us.

 

That is scary. But don't abandon your H when he needs you the most. Yes, he is needy, but I can understand how you may not be able to fill every need of his. Can you atleast not abandon him? Yes, you did sign up to be there for him, in sickness and in health, when you married him. That is what marriage means. You promised and took a sacred vow. Don't break that vow.

 

Is your husband clinically depressed? Is he the one that had the affair?

Is he taking medication or help?

 

I don't want to be your husband, but it sounds like I am in that state. I wasn't like that. I was full of hobbies, joy, energy. It was my damn wife who had the affair. Now, I'm like your husband. I freaking mess. I am going to take help, as I mentioned. Is my wife going to abandon me? Are you going to abandon your husband? Don't. Drag him to counseling, drag him to a psychiatrist, drag him to meditation, yoga, do something, but don't leave his side, unless he's not a nice guy or is evil or something. If he is weak, that does not mean he is evil. He needs you.

[Naively.Sensitive]

Infidelity is hard for anybody....especially man. I know I wouldn't be able to forget my wife but In the end its up to you to forgive. You have young kids and that would make it harder to leave. The questions that remain are; are you willing to forgive her and know that you will never be the same man again with her and your marriege will never be the same again either. Good luck.

 

Yes, I can forgive. When I ask myself that, I know that I can, however, I have not been able to 100% forgive as yet. This is partly because my wife has been getting on with her life, living it as if nothing happened, putting forth more and more of her own emotional needs, when my pain is so severe and I need her badly. How do I even begin to forgive in this scenario? I WANT to and I CAN, but not under these circumstances.

I can completely forgive if she commits to me 100% and helps me heal. That would be proof that she really stood by me in my pain.

 

Forgiveness is very hard and is not automatic. I should be able to feel that she deserves to be forgiven. Many times I don't, because of how she behaves.

 

Maybe I need to learn about unconditional forgiveness? Maybe this is what life is trying to teach me and will not stop bothering me unless I learn this lesson?

[Naively.Sensitive]

If/when you can become a whole person who is independent and stands on their own - then you can add a healthy, whole person to a relationship.

 

That will be the bright side of all this. That you can progress and rely on yourself for your happiness.

 

I hope you will!

 

Yes, I'm heading in that direction, with medication if necessary.