Dealing with wife's affair.

[ShatteredLady]

I couldn't agree with this more, "That doesn't mean you should stop teaching".

 

I was so desperate when I came to this forum. I had sunk so low & was so incredibly terrified of so many things. I'd lost all self esteem & didn't even know who I was anymore.

 

Dear Mrs Adams has made such a difference in my life. Words can't express

 

There are members here who are compassionate, empathic & KNOWLEDGABLE. It's so sad when people don't listen & DON'T realize that they are being handed a gift by generous people who could be doing a lot of other things with their time.

 

If many experienced members are saying pretty much the same thing & receiving loads of 'likes' isn't it worth giving serious thought to what they're saying rather than instinctively arguing, denying or twisting it into a philosophical musing?

 

Yes!! They can weild a hefty 2x4 & it smacked some desperately needed clarity into my spinning broken head.

 

You want advise? Read with clear, unbiased, eyes. Don't be defensive. Read the words as if you're studying a school subject. Read without thinking "But! But? But....". Read with an open mind....

[MuddyFootprints]

I'll go along with the thread jack and agree. At some point we, as Fws, have to have some hope of self forgiveness.

 

Re-earning our forgiveness every single day for the rest of our marriage after being 'allowed' to stay? It just doesn't speak to true reconciliation for me.

 

If being unwilling to kiss my Fbs ass for the rest of my life is considered unremorseful behaviour for a Fww, then consider me that person.

 

Eventually, a FWS deserves empowerment in the relationship.

[Mr Blunt]

By NS

My first IC appointment is later next week.

I don't believe it will help much. I have tried IC counseling before, and its mostly just a role play of emotions and beliefs for me.

What I seek is a very spiritual path, something way beyond psychological solutions.

I will give IC a try anyway. I have nothing to lose.

 

NS, you believe that IC counseling is role play and emotions and beliefs and will not help you much. Do you really believe that all IC is unable to help you or are you unable to listen to them because you think that you can get out of your mess with your abilities? You are a person that is a mess and you will rule out all IC?

 

 

You say that you “seek a spiritual path”. However, you get very defensive against someone (Mrs JA) that is so very spiritual and tries to help you. In addition, Mrs. Adams has been in R for 33 YEARS and has a very successful marriage. I would think that you would not be so defensive with her as she has walked the walk and has been a success for many years. Have you asked Mr. John Adams to give you advice on your actions and attitudes? He is a BS that has shown tremendous success and strength. That is something that you desperately need. If you have consulted with John then my next question is did you act on his advice? IF you really want to get better then you act on advice from EXPERIENCED and SUCCESSFUL people that have proven themselves for YEARS! John is not the only one on this forum that has experience and success but he is the one Male BS that has the longest R of anyone that I know.

 

 

You are the one that told us that you want to seek a spiritual path. If you are really meaning what you say then will you consider people that have had huge success. Also, you may want to pay attention to the attitude of those that have successes. You may want to pay attention to their humbleness and great gratitude they have for their gift of forgiveness. This post is in relation to you and not your wife. We already have heard enough about your wife in this 1000+ thread. You can only charge you. To be blunt you need to be humbled, broken, forgiven, and revitalized with a new positive attitude. You cannot get that from your wife or women or men friends. You need to concentrate on getting yourself forgiven for your infidelity to God first so that you can get strong enough to do more.

 

You could stop being defensive towards people on this thread that have tried to help you. One that comes to my mind that you have been defensive towards is Mrs. John Adams. Instead of being defensive you may benefit by reading her post reprinted below.

 

By Mrs. JA to NS

 

NS....

In none of my comments to you have I ever said that you do not deserve forgiveness. Not one.

 

And you are very right....I do not deserve forgiveness....not from My Savior...not from my beloved husband.

Forgiveness is given freely from those who choose to give it. It is not earned.

 

..I repented of my sins....I asked for forgiveness....and My God has removed my sin as far as the east is from the west. I have been washed clean by the blood of the lamb. That is my belief....and there are those who do not share my Christian belief and I respect that.

 

I have lived the past 33 years in complete transparency to my husband. Everyday...because i WANT TO....I tell him my schedule....what I am doing...where I am going....etc. With the invention of internet and cell phones....I am in constant communication with him. The reason? To make him feel safe. I am well aware of the pain I caused him....it brings me to my knees...how even all these years later he still carries the scars that i caused. I cannot undo my sin....I wish I could say...just kidding...it never happened.I have had dreams where I can go back in time and remove this nightmare....but I cannot. I have made so many mistakes in my life.....and I certainly am not deserving of the love and compassion I have been given by others.....especially my husband. His forgiveness is a gift to me that I cherish....and I have made it my mission to live my life proving to him that i am grateful. I do not deserve it....you are right....

NS, did you notice the attitude, the humbleness, the gratefulness, and the 33 years of positive actions?

 

 

The bottom line is SUCCESS after infidelity! Mr. and Mrs. John Adams are a huge SUCCESS!

 

 

Isn’t that what you want?

[Mrs. John Adams]

My forgiveness response was in answer to NS who said I did not deserve it. I appreciate all of the support given to me....and I thank you. I know how forgiveness feels. I made it very clear that i know and understand that others have differing religious beliefs....and I was not in any way trying to convince anyone else that their beliefs are wrong. I am well aware that NS is not of the Christian faith.....he has told us that on many different occasions. My post was of a personal nature and not meant to be judgmental of any one else.

 

My attempts in this thread have been to help and support NS in his recovery from this horrible thing that has happened to him. He now feels that I am attacking him...I disagree...but if that is his perception...then perception is truth. I will bow out and say no more.

 

I would say to muddyfootprints...we all handle our reconciliation the way we deem best. Your comments were cutting...almost degrading. I assure you our reconciliation is real and true...our relationship is equal in every way. I do what I need to do in the manner that i deem best for us. We live a life of mutual respect. We place the needs of the other above our own...and it works for us.

 

This thread has taken many twists and turns... lets turn it back to NS....

Edited February 28, 2016 by Mrs. John Adams

[BetrayedH]

...I would never tell a BS 'it's time to forgive' within less than a year from Dday just no matter how distorted his thinking. It even sounds like he's got a firmly entrenched case of entitlement - as if he's been justifying his 'friendship' as revenge, which turns my stomach, too. But that doesn't mean he should, therefore, be instructed to 'forgive.' I mean, he's so far from understanding, much less embracing that concept...

 

Agree much with the above.

 

Like NS, I was also loathe to divorce. I searched my brain for any any other avenue. I had lengthy threads here where the faceless voices screamed to stop being a cuckold ane a doormat and to divorce. I defended forgiveness but most certainly didn't really comprehend what I was asking of myself when dealing with a wayward that wasn't truly remorseful.

 

In the midst of a torturous existence, I also found a sense of entitlement. I was jealous of her affair and felt that I deserved one of my own. I can only hope that NS avoids that path. He sounds a bit too much like me in those days.

 

I snapped at about 7 months or so. NS, be wary of how much you push yourself to stay. Your reserves are about empty. And you've got nothing refilling them.

[Mr Blunt]

Quote of Merrmeade

Sure, we all express opinions that probably emanate directly from our personal belief system, which may or may not be tied to a religious faith. But what I see and heartily dislike is using one's religious beliefs as a legitimate reason to impose those values on others.

I don't think forgiveness can EVER be commanded or even explained (except carefully) - only modeled. imho, it's definitely not a reason to impose it.

I am the one that mentioned forgiveness to the OP-NS so I will respond to merrmeade’s post above.

 

 

Merrmeade, many of the posts on this forum are, as you have stated, “OPINIONS that probably emanate directly from our personal belief system” That is exactly what I did in my post. In fact that is exactly what you did in your quotes above.

 

 

 

Your opinion is that religious beliefs are not a legitimate reason to impose those values on others. The first point about your statement is that I did not IMPOSE my values on NS; so your statement changed the meaning of my post. What I did was to express my opinion, like you do in your posts, in an effort to possibly help the OP. An opinion has a very different meaning than IMPOSE. Written words on an internet forum cannot IMPOSE values on anyone. I gave my opinion and a suggestion in hopes of helping but did not IMPOSE my values because that is impossible to do on an internet forum.

 

Then there is your Statement of “I don't think forgiveness can EVER be commanded or even explained (except carefully) - only modeled. imo, it's definitely not a reason to impose it.”

 

 

Not only did I not impose forgiveness on NS but I did not command it. What I did do was ask NS to ask John Adams for advice on forgiveness. John Adams has forgiven his wife and Mr. and Mrs. Adams have a very successful R. That is what NS indicated that he wants, successful R, so I think that John would be a great source of help. Some one that has 33 years of marriage after infidelity is someone that may could help NS. The OP could use all kinds of help and John is a BS husbands that has long term success with marriage and an R and has walked the walk not just talk the talk.

 

 

Merrmeade, you say that forgiveness can be “Modeled”. That is exactly what John Adams is; a model of a BS husband that has forgiven and that is why I mentioned John in my post.

 

 

You seem to want to keep opinions posted that have a religion bases out of this forum. If that is what the forum authorities agree with and stipulate then I will gladly leave. Can someone tell me if my posts are in violation of some rules of this form?

Edited February 29, 2016 by Mr Blunt

[S2B]

My forgiveness response was in answer to NS who said I did not deserve it. I appreciate all of the support given to me....and I thank you. I know how forgiveness feels. I made it very clear that i know and understand that others have differing religious beliefs....and I was not in any way trying to convince anyone else that their beliefs are wrong. I am well aware that NS is not of the Christian faith.....he has told us that on many different occasions. My post was of a personal nature and not meant to be judgmental of any one else.

 

My attempts in this thread have been to help and support NS in his recovery from this horrible thing that has happened to him. He now feels that I am attacking him...I disagree...but if that is his perception...then perception is truth. I will bow out and say no more.

 

I would say to muddyfootprints...we all handle our reconciliation the way we deem best. Your comments were cutting...almost degrading. I assure you our reconciliation is real and true...our relationship is equal in every way. I do what I need to do in the manner that i deem best for us. We live a life of mutual respect. We place the needs of the other above our own...and it works for us.

 

This thread has taken many twists and turns... lets turn it back to NS....

 

No one here gets to decide what you deserve or don't deserve. Certainly not NS.

 

Don't hand him all your power by allowing him to make you angry.

 

NS - what has happened in counseling lately? Why wouldn't you tell your wife you're angry with her - instead of misdirecting it here towards someone trying to help you?

[Naively.Sensitive]

Just thought I would respond to some posts, while also posting my own recent (in the last 2 days) experiences.

 

So, yes, I did feel a little attacked in the recent posts by Mrs. John Adams, and thats probably why I lashed out a little in an angry reaction.

What I felt was less of an attack, but more like a "pressure" towards a certain path for reconciliation: Comments, like, "Why don't you file for divorce?", or "What actions have you been taking? None of those are real actions.", and other such comments.

I apologize if I hurt anyone's feelings in my reactions. I certainly did not intend to. I was simply being very assertive about how I felt.

 

My other point is that no 2 reconciliation paths, stories, and methods are the same. There are many variables, factors, personalities, circumstances and expectations. One example that I earlier mentioned was how complete transparency of my wife's phone, email and conversations were not as important for me as her support towards me in my time of need (which was paramount).

I don't subscribe to the traditional view of God, Christianity or Religion. Infact, I stay away from Religion. I don't mean any disrespect to any religion when I say that. Its just my belief system. By spirituality, what I really mean is being able to harness my true, full potential in its greatest capacity of a soul embodied in human existence. I believe that I'm capable of growing from this experience and from being "larger" than I currently am. I may not necessarily use the word "forgiveness", because a part of me does not even recognize what that word truly means. The part of me that does know the standard dictionary definition of it, is not even convinced that forgiveness is even relevant. What is relevant is whether I'm able to live my life peacefully, happily and if my wife is also capable of being peaceful and happy, living with me and whether we are able to provide each other with what we truly need, going forward.

 

Anyway, I wanted to post some recent experiences and revelations that I seem to be coming to:

1) I'm learning that my happiness is independent of the circumstances that surround me. There are people living in terrible external conditions that are still extremely happy. This also means that to a large extent (not to a full extent), the relationship with my wife is irrelevant in deciding my happiness. As long as we are not bashing each other by our actions (which we are not anymore), our happinesses depend on our individual selves.

2) I'm learning about the "Law Of Attraction" which has proved (and is continuing to prove) to be a true law. I'm changing what I ask for, think, feel and believe. I have consciously started to "create" what I want to manifest in my life. This means I'm only going to focus on everything positive and good in my life and that is what will grow.

3) I'm changing the focus from thinking and analyzing to "feeling". If I feel good in my life, that will change my perception of life.

 

Last week, I chose to put all future marriage counseling sessions on hold, because we were not getting anywhere. We already know what we need from each other, but I'm not getting what I need. However, I have changed my focus completely to realize that my happiness does not depend on my wife meeting my needs, but rather in me feeling good about myself. I'm changing the focus to feel good about myself and be happy and if the relationship has to work out as a result of that, it will.

 

I'm going to be practicing Nichiren Buddhism because it fosters self empowerment from within one's true spiritual identity, to be courageous, strong and attain happiness from within oneself. All of those appeal to me and don't involve any dependence on my wife.

 

I have been hearing several audios by "Abraham Hicks" on YouTube and Google, relating to "The Law Of Attraction"

Edited February 29, 2016 by Naively.Sensitive

[Robert]

Moderation has reviewed some of the latest responses and noted that a spiritual belief system is tuned to an individuals person pursuit of what helps them in their time of need. There is another forum on these boards to discuss religion.

 

As a reminder, all members [including the OP] are asked to respect each other even if you don't agree with another member's opinion or views.

 

Please continue with respect to keeping these guidelines in mind.

 

~ V

[merrmeade]

I think that you have made a decision about how you are going to proceed. You seem to have taken what you want from the over 1200 posts and are dealing with your wife's affair.

[Naively.Sensitive]

So, after 1200+ posts on my situation (I thank all the folks who have taken the time to help and advice me), I think I have overcome a lot of my neediness resulting from the trauma, have become much more emotionally stronger, filtered out a lot of ideas about what does not work for me, and am on my way to happiness!

 

I think I have simultaneously also hit my midlife crises woes, and am recovering from those as well, although I managed to get through without splurging my money on expensive toys on that pretext.

 

I will take a break from LS for a while and go live my life and be happy. I got this. I may check in and post as and when I feel inclined to, maybe many weeks, or maybe many months later, or if a dire need for advice emerges.

 

Thanks y'all. Keep on keeping on.

[understand50]

So, after 1200+ posts on my situation (I thank all the folks who have taken the time to help and advice me), I think I have overcome a lot of my neediness resulting from the trauma, have become much more emotionally stronger, filtered out a lot of ideas about what does not work for me, and am on my way to happiness!

 

I think I have simultaneously also hit my midlife crises woes, and am recovering from those as well, although I managed to get through without splurging my money on expensive toys on that pretext.

 

I will take a break from LS for a while and go live my life and be happy. I got this. I may check in and post as and when I feel inclined to, maybe many weeks, or maybe many months later, or if a dire need for advice emerges.

 

Thanks y'all. Keep on keeping on.

 

Well...............

 

 

Good luck to you in any case, but remember that honesty, openness, faithfulness, forgiveness, and understanding are the only way to keep and protect a marriage, relationship. I think some time reflecting on yourself and how you deal with life and what it throws at you would be helpful for you.

[MadJackBird]

Because I'm not inclined to part with half my hard earned money to fulfill a contract that was legally but unethically broken by the other party.

And because I will be able to recover from the illusion that I need a passionate relationship with my wife in order to live a happy life.

 

Please don't make finances your one reason for not getting divorced. A good lawyer will protect your rights. I actually found finances to be liberating after my divorce. I really couldn't control her spending when we were married, now the amount she gets from me is very fixed. I live pretty frugally and feel better off financially then I did while married.

 

I don't think you'll really heal if you are living with her. You should at least separate. It seems as if you have taken a step forward in detaching from her. Initially you were focused on reconciliation, now you seem to just vilify her. Why life with someone you hate. It will be triggering and depressing.

 

Good job pursuing same gender friends, that will be good for you healing. I continue to caution about getting emotionally close with an opposite gendered friend. While you are still married that is called emotional adultery and is no better then what your wife did to you. Just end it so you don't compromise your virtues and morals, I feel like you are already stepping over the line a little bit.

 

I second the comments about focusing on yourself and YOUR KIDS! It seems like you have concrete things for you, but what about your kids. Why not start doing something with them just you and them. Take them on walks/bike rides. Start working on a puzzle with them. Pick a goofy Netlfix show and carve out an hour a day and watch a few episodes. We powered through all of the Good Luck Charlie's together as our new little family. Goofy and Silly, but good family bonding time too.

 

Good Luck

[drifter777]

Forgiveness is given freely from those who choose to give it. It is not earned.

Not everyone sees it the same way you do. In fact, there are hundred's of books on forgiveness since it promises to help a betrayed come to peace with the betrayer yet remains elusive. Many of us find a philosophy in those books or through counseling or a bible or whatever and find a great deal of relief. We then pass our new philosophy on forgiveness to other people with the good intention of helping them forgive like we did. You know what's coming next, right? We are all, every one of us, different. What works swimmingly for you might seem ridicules for me. I can follow all of the sage advice from others and still not find that one thing that can help me forgive - according to my definition of forgiveness.

 

Forgiveness can't be encapsulated in bumper-stickers or pop-psychology catch phrases. I'm one of many, many people who believe there are level's of dealing with a betrayal like infidelity. There's wrong ways such as the false forgiveness offered to the betrayed early in R for many reasons. The BS might believe they will magically feel better once they "unburden" themselves from the hurt, shame, sadness, and anger they feel. They might feel that forgiving will help them put it all behind them and move forward. False forgiveness is driven by denial and is the heart of rug-sweeping. It may help the BS reconnect with WS quickly but that connection is superficial and can lead to resentment and contempt that needs to be addressed later on.

 

True forgiveness must be earned and takes effort by both BS & WS. Sometimes a BS refuses to to give the WS an opportunity for true forgiveness but is able to get to a place where they accept that their spouse has proven remorse and has rebuilt trust and accepts them as a partner. But for these people, infidelity is an unforgivable offense and reaching a certain peace of mind through acceptance is the best they can ever do.

 

But, hey, you believe what you want to believe. NS has been sorting out what forgiveness means to him for months and is circling in on the definition that will work for him. Also, working toward forgiveness does not mean reconciliation. In fact I've always advocated divorce in cases like NS's because I'm convinced he will heal & find peace when he doesn't have to live with her anymore.

 

I don't understand all of the flack NS has generated because he has decided to see another woman. He is separated and has no intention - at this time - to reconcile with WW. He told her he's seeing the other woman and as long as they agree on the dating rules then what's the big deal? There are separations that people do so they can clear there minds and decide if and how to proceed with R. In this case the couple generally agree to NOT see other people since their separation is part of the reconciliation process. If and/or when the couple decide to divorce than dating/sex/whatever with other people is their business. Even in that case I think it's best to at least inform each other of their intentions so that if they decide to R down the road the seeing other people thing isn't a surprise to either of them.

[just got it 55]

Coming to 1300 posts. Let's do a summary...

 

Your wife cheated. That's horrible, destructive, heartbreaking. We know that agony.

 

She confessed. That's very positive to reconciliation.

 

You subjected her to humiliating acts to 'heal' you & she did it ALL for 3 months.

 

Your wife discovered that you were sharing marital secrets (including the humiliating depths she sank to for you to record in various ways) with your OW & shut down.

 

You've spent well over a THOUSAND posts eliciting pity & understanding from the members here. You've led us to believe that you're so broken that you can't even spend time with your kids or hold your wife's hand, spend your time mourning in bed. In reality you're using your pain to woo your OW into an EA. Blaming your wife the whole time for the distance between you.

 

To heal you need passionate sex & more videos & to heal you your wife wants you to STOP telling your OW every personal detail of your relationship. Neither of you are giving eachother what you want.

 

When we call you out on your behavior & the dangerous direction you are traveling in you AGAIN insult & belittle a cherished member (Mrs Adams) of this forum.

 

Refusing to hear advise, bizarre diatribes on society & laws spew as usual.

 

I have to ask 'What do you want from us?'. Are we just a sounding board for your EA fodder?

 

You won't spend your time supporting your children. Oh yeh that's some societal wrong that demands you be a role model for your intrinsically flawed offspring! You would rather have a hiking pity party with your OW while your wife AGAIN spends the whole weekend providing stability & life for your children.

 

You have repeatedly stated that you want reconciliation. Not sure why anymore, comfort, money, whatever. If you truly want that, STOP your EA, STOP the pity party & focus on your family. (Like Mrs Adams has for DECADES)

 

 

Almost 1300 posts and unless I missed it.......

 

 

Has anyone mentioned NS would benefit from institutional (IN Patient) therapy

 

 

Look NS I am very late to this thread but have checked in from time to time so I just want to give you my two cents

 

 

 

Not to pile on sorry But this

 

 

I hope you really have come to terms with your wife's inability or unwillingness to help you for your pain.

 

 

1. If you were dying of thirst and there is only water to be had by digging a well and there is no one there to dig Would you not start digging on your own.

 

 

2.You will never have relief from your pain until you are ready to face it head on......on your own with the help of a Physiatrist.

 

 

You have regressed young man And soon your children will take a serious emotional hit

 

 

You may now think .......Hey that's my wife's fault but here is the thing at some point you are fully responsible. And I believe that that time has come quite a while ago.

 

 

The sooner you put your children at the front of your goals that make you happy the more clarity you will get for your own happiness.

 

 

It may be hard for you to accept you are hurting them.

 

 

Most all say to a BH be the best man and Dad you can be.

 

 

 

 

55

Edited February 29, 2016 by just got it 55

[Robert]

Being that the OP has decided to take a break from the forum, this thread will be closed. If the OP would like to give an update in the future, please use the Alert Us button to ask moderation to re-open the thread.

 

Thank you for all that participated within guidelines. ~ V