MuddyFootprints Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 WhoKnew - you're the only one suggesting we've said the WS should hate the AP. No one has... there should be indifference... I am disgusted by my AP. I hope to never see him. If I did (and I am 6 years out as well) I would get out of line and leave that establishment out of respect for my husband.... but as you said, people are different. I'm glad this arrangement is working for you. but you asked for other opinions. That's not indifference. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Whoknew30 Posted November 21, 2015 Author Share Posted November 21, 2015 If they knew you were married, they weren't pulled. Yes, you and your H were responsible for the M. But the AP's were adults who chose to get involved. So they do share some responsibility. The "if it wasn't them it would have been someone else" reasoning doesn't absolve them. I don't think a outside person holds responsibility in my marriage. My husband & I hold it. As adults we know life isn't fair & I feel that is the way it is with affairs. You're married, you brought another person in, you hold the responsibility. We wouldn't have been able to fix our marriage if we had been concerned about them in anyway. Once we both said goodbye, that was it. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Whoknew30 Posted November 21, 2015 Author Share Posted November 21, 2015 Whoknew I just recently experienced as a BS broken NC with the MOW in our situation. My WH showed me the message that was sent to him. I wasn't even thinking about his A or her or anything we were going about our life. She sent a (semi-nude) photo of herself with a bunch of childish hashtags. You wouldn't want to know about this? Especially if your spouse has cheated in the past? I'd want to know how she's messaging him. My ExAP has no way of getting a hold of me & if she was doing that to my husband, why do I need to fight or get upset about what she's doing if he doesn't care? I've never worked that way, when I was younger or now. If you don't want someone, you're an adult, take care of it. Asking for advice is different but if he has no intention with her, why can he not take care of it himself? Block her & let it go, why do I want to see & deal with that, you dont want her, be a man & get rid of her. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ladydesigner Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 I'd want to know how she's messaging him. My ExAP has no way of getting a hold of me & if she was doing that to my husband, why do I need to fight or get upset about what she's doing if he doesn't care? I've never worked that way, when I was younger or now. If you don't want someone, you're an adult, take care of it. Asking for advice is different but if he has no intention with her, why can he not take care of it himself? Block her & let it go, why do I want to see & deal with that, you dont want her, be a man & get rid of her. Well she was stalking him. It was a new account. So our MOW is very stalkerish! Link to post Share on other sites
Author Whoknew30 Posted November 21, 2015 Author Share Posted November 21, 2015 WhoKnew - you're the only one suggesting we've said the WS should hate the AP. No one has... there should be indifference... I am disgusted by my AP. I hope to never see him. If I did (and I am 6 years out as well) I would get out of line and leave that establishment out of respect for my husband.... but as you said, people are different. I'm glad this arrangement is working for you. but you asked for other opinions. You seem to be disgusted with yourself for having an affair & evidently your AP brings that back. I'm not, I forgave not only my husband but myself too. My AP wasn't some douche bag, bad man. I knew one day a woman would be lucky to have him & im happy he found that as he said he was happy my life has worked out for the better (he saw me emotional & was there for me beyond sex). I'm no longer guilty & neither is my husband. We're passed that. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Whoknew30 Posted November 21, 2015 Author Share Posted November 21, 2015 Well she was stalking him. It was a new account. So our MOW is very stalkerish! Then he needs to do what he needs to do to take care of it. If it's that bad, new email, blocked Facebook, blocked phone. There are a million way to have no contact or simply don't even open her messages. When I don't care, I erase, it's simple. Link to post Share on other sites
ladydesigner Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 I think someone is stirring the pot... Link to post Share on other sites
ladydesigner Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Then he needs to do what he needs to do to take care of it. If it's that bad, new email, blocked Facebook, blocked phone. There are a million way to have no contact or simply don't even open her messages. When I don't care, I erase, it's simple. Well he wanted to show me the broken NC. So on that level I'm proud that he told me. He has never done that in the past. I really think he is trying to move forward on a better foot with me and us. Normally that is what is asked of WS's after an A. Full transparency and honesty. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Whoknew30 Posted November 21, 2015 Author Share Posted November 21, 2015 Well he wanted to show me the broken NC. So on that level I'm proud that he told me. He has never done that in the past. I really think he is trying to move forward on a better foot with me and us. Normally that is what is asked of WS's after an A. Full transparency and honesty. I'm different, I'd rather if your intentions are good, just take care of it. Like I said I don't want to clean up an adult's mess. Once I forgive & trust, I'm done with it. If she sent him a naked pic, I'd rather my husband erase it, not respond & move on like any other day. What's the point of me knowing, if he's not doing anything? I only want to know, if he's up to no good. Link to post Share on other sites
ladydesigner Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 I'm different, I'd rather if your intentions are good, just take care of it. Like I said I don't want to clean up an adult's mess. Once I forgive & trust, I'm done with it. If she sent him a naked pic, I'd rather my husband erase it, not respond & move on like any other day. What's the point of me knowing, if he's not doing anything? I only want to know, if he's up to no good. When you are dealing with an accomplished liar, him telling me there was broken NC was the truth! So it was a win for me and him. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Whoknew30 Posted November 21, 2015 Author Share Posted November 21, 2015 I think someone is stirring the pot... Um no. My husband & I are pretty honest & open. We always were, minus one really bad year of our marriage. Before that year & ever since we've been fine. I just don't get why, I'd want to talk & bring up things that are way over. It takes two to tango, if one isn't participating then there is no tango. No OW would ever make me feel insecure. If he ever wanted to truly be with her (or anyone else) I'll say bye. I don't want to be with (& sure as hell won't fight for) anyone that doesn't want me. Wether that's my husband or not. The only people that get my fighting honor are my kids. That's it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Whoknew30 Posted November 21, 2015 Author Share Posted November 21, 2015 When you are dealing with an accomplished liar, him telling me there was broken NC was the truth! So it was a win for me and him. If that's a win for you, that's great! I'm not saying it isn't, in your situation. In mine, I simply don't want to deal with old crap that's already been dealt with on my end. My husband wasn't an accomplished liar & ive known him since ive been young, which probably makes a difference. Link to post Share on other sites
katielee Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 That's not indifference. It's as close as I can get.maybe the disgust is for myself.. I stand by my statement that hate is not what were going for here... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
katielee Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 That's not indifference. You seem to be disgusted with yourself for having an affair & evidently your AP brings that back. I'm not, I forgave not only my husband but myself too. My AP wasn't some douche bag, bad man. I knew one day a woman would be lucky to have him & im happy he found that as he said he was happy my life has worked out for the better (he saw me emotional & was there for me beyond sex). I'm no longer guilty & neither is my husband. We're passed that. See and I guess I feel that anyone who is involved with another married person is a douchebag. I've changed.my husband changed. I have no idea if our APs changed but its not my concern. I'm not sure how you can think of someone having an affair with a married person as a "good" person who would be lucky to be married to.... They're complicit liars. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Whoknew30 Posted November 21, 2015 Author Share Posted November 21, 2015 It's as close as I can get.maybe the disgust is for myself.. I stand by my statement that hate is not what were going for here... Ok, not hate but when you forgive anything (wether that's for yourself or anything else) you at some point have to let it go. People say they forgive but then continue the same path, when you truly from the bottom of your heart forgive & let go, the path changes. I'll never run, bc I'm not scared or worried about seeing him. When I said care, I don't mean I'm in love with him forever. I mean he wasn't some kind of demon trying to ruin my life. He was a nice guy that got caught up in a messed up situation. Things happen in life, some we're proud of, some not but I can't & wont live in that time period forever. When I say I forgive & I'm over something, I am. Link to post Share on other sites
katielee Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 How is a guy who does another mans wife nice? 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Whoknew30 Posted November 21, 2015 Author Share Posted November 21, 2015 See and I guess I feel that anyone who is involved with another married person is a douchebag. I've changed.my husband changed. I have no idea if our APs changed but its not my concern. I'm not sure how you can think of someone having an affair with a married person as a "good" person who would be lucky to be married to.... They're complicit liars. People want to demonize everyone that's ever had an affair, I don't & wont ever agree with that. Sometimes people let their hearts put them in the wrong postion. Doesn't mean they're bad for life. Also, everyone lies at some point in life about something. No gets out of this life mistake free. Yes people lie but that doesn't mean that defines their whole life. Do you consider yourself a "good" person? Running out of a line or store bc you see a ExAP (IMO) doesn't make a difference. Not if you have no intention of any wrong doing. I'm an adult, I don't run out of anywhere unless someone is trying to kill me. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
MuddyFootprints Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 It's as close as I can get.maybe the disgust is for myself.. I stand by my statement that hate is not what were going for here... I understand what you are saying and what you are feeling. Don't ever let someone change the course of your day, though. We are still entitled to our pride. Stay in line. Pick up one of those gossip rags and read the most engrossing article you've ever read in your life. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
katielee Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 People want to demonize everyone that's ever had an affair, I don't & wont ever agree with that. Sometimes people let their hearts put them in the wrong postion. Doesn't mean they're bad for life. Also, everyone lies at some point in life about something. No gets out of this life mistake free. Yes people lie but that doesn't mean that defines their whole life. Do you consider yourself a "good" person? Running out of a line or store bc you see a ExAP (IMO) doesn't make a difference. Not if you have no intention of any wrong doing. I'm an adult, I don't run out of anywhere unless someone is trying to kill me. I have to live according to my values and that includes making my husbands emotional safety a priority... I'm not bad for life. But I have no idea if my AP is. He certainly was when he was in an affair. Link to post Share on other sites
minimariah Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) ...he asked me how to handle the OW & I said however you chose. yeah... i'd be annoyed with this question. why is he asking YOU what to do? he can't think of anything by himself...? blocking the other woman and going strict no contact never occured his mind without your approval? he doesn't need to run the other way when he sees her, just walk straight by her like he'd walk by any other stranger. i don't get it. Edited November 21, 2015 by minimariah Link to post Share on other sites
minimariah Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 If it's been a long time, why does BS want to know if WS has run into ExAP? trust. when you're a BS - you know one thing and one thing only for sure... your WS is capable of lies and deceit. so when you hear from someone else that your WS was seen chatting with the other person or with them in the same store or a park or whatever... the doubt rises yet again. you trust your WS but you are also very aware of the fact that they already did all of those things you're afraid they're doing again and chances are pretty high that they'll repeat it. so to avoid that doubt being out in the open again - you address the elephant in the room and talk about it. being over an affair, contrary to the popular belief, doesn't mean that you shouldn't discuss it ever again. it actually means being able to discuss it without feeling the bile rise in your throat. these things need to be addressed in a conversation about boundaries, trust, honest and transparency. so sit down with him and communicate. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
drifter777 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 People want to demonize everyone that's ever had an affair, I don't & wont ever agree with that. Sometimes people let their hearts put them in the wrong postion. Doesn't mean they're bad for life. Also, everyone lies at some point in life about something. No gets out of this life mistake free. Yes people lie but that doesn't mean that defines their whole life. I guess it depends on what "bad" means to you. I think that a person who cheats and lies to their spouse is a cowardly, selfish, narcissist. It certainly doesn't mean they are evil or bad but if I knew a person had cheated I wouldn't date them. It's just too risky to try to have a romantic relationship with a known cheater. Link to post Share on other sites
MuddyFootprints Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Except you are. You have. And, you will. Come on, Drifter. You choose to live the risk every single day. Link to post Share on other sites
fellini Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) First off WhoKnew, thank you for you thread, and your attempt to clarify your personal situation in spite of a dozen people who simply do not agree with you nor pretend to understand you. What I see is that for you there is a higher level of trust. And this is the trust I seek in my WW. I am not, as in your situation, a WH and BH. Just a BH. And I see that for me the most important step would be for me to have the definition of trust that you currently have, the both of you: I trust you not to step back into that world. I suppose the only way to actually know that is true is when NC is temporarily broken through chance encounters. If total NC is the only way, then a BS has no way of knowing if they are truly in a space of trust. My situation is far more complicated than yours because my WW feel in love with a single, divorce ex BH. And he remains that way. And he awaits that the same fate that hit him will pass through me and give him back my wife. And to make matters more complex, they work together in the same university faculty so visual contact is inevitable week after week. I have to live with this reality. Knowing that all her close colleagues are his too. Knowing that they will both retire from this faculty years from now. Knowing that one day the administration might throw them together in an obligatory commission of some sort. And what I DONT need is to have my wife walk around telling me she HATES her AP because I know she does not and has little to disrespect him for. Certainly NOTHING that comes from their time together. Besides, she pursued him relentlessly. What I need to know, where trust comes for me is when she can move freely through her workplace and not think or worry about "bumping" into him. What matters to me is not him or her in NC (which they have) but trusting her to move on and not nurture any previous feelings for him. This is what you have, and you have bent over backwards in trying to convince everyone that this level of trust is more important. I believe you are right, but I also believe this comes from years of working through all the other issues. I cannot expect this from my WW just 2.5 years post DDAY. But if we are to remain married, I will need to see and feel it somewhere down this path. In the meantime, yes, I want her to tell me if she bumped into him in any "significant" way, meaning her colleagues had her ear and called him over to talk. I don't need to hear from her she "saw" him in the parking lot going into the building. This is not trust. Trust is telling me he said "hi" to her passing each other in a hallway and she moved on. But in 2 years I hope I don't need to hear anything because there is nothing to say regardless. I have listened to her recount these stories and she seems to understand that the important meaning for her is how her body responded to these encounters, and she is clearly "over him" in that regard. Again thanks for you clear, interesting and detailed explanation of your particular situation. Very helpful to me. Edited November 21, 2015 by fellini 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ladydesigner Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Whoknew30 this is my last post to you because I will never understand your frame of thinking as it does not apply to my situation at all. When you have been with a serial cheater who breaks NC and the gift of False R, blind trust will never be given again, but that's me and I'm okay with that. Those are MY values. Link to post Share on other sites
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