qubist Posted November 4, 2015 Posted November 4, 2015 Up until the last few days, every conversation ended in a screaming argument and her clamming up. I've agreed not to press the issue constantly and she has agreed to be more open. So far , we've been a lot more civil over the last few days. So she doesn't want you to press the issue as it would only lead to screaming argument, instead you let go and she is more open, do you mind elaborate more? What do you mean by open?
kgcolonel Posted November 4, 2015 Posted November 4, 2015 We/She/I That doesn't really matter, does it? She made the appointment. What is the goal? Save the marriage? Maybe. Ultimately, I need to be happy. I'd like there to be a "we" component to that but if that's not the case, so be it. I was wondering if the C was for you and the kids or for you and the ww. Just wondering if the kids might be interested in talking to someone on a professional level.
Author Doorstopper Posted November 5, 2015 Author Posted November 5, 2015 I was wondering if the C was for you and the kids or for you and the ww. Just wondering if the kids might be interested in talking to someone on a professional level. Rather not discuss the kids much here but lets just say all bases are covered. Right now, with C, its just me and the wife together. This will continue and we expect to both get IC as well. 1
Author Doorstopper Posted November 5, 2015 Author Posted November 5, 2015 So she doesn't want you to press the issue as it would only lead to screaming argument, instead you let go and she is more open, do you mind elaborate more? What do you mean by open? Here's a scenario of conflict between us. Her version of exactly how everything started doesn't exactly make sense. She says he found her on a dice game, started chatting and it went from there. But, you can't search people in the dice game, unless its on Facebook and she says it wasn't. So I press the issue about what really happened, she says she doesn't know, big arguments ensue. Truth is unless shes hiding all kids of contact methods that I don't know about, her story is relatively accurate. By "More Open": She has agreed to answer specific questions as long as they don't devolve into a "you're lying, I want to know what really happened" argument. And I do generally see that but we are not really having a good conversation about this (can you ever, LOL). I think she really wants me to just STFU about all this for a day or two and then I think I might be able to get a free flow of info. But honestly, at this point, I don't think there is much of anything that I don't know with exception of a few lingering issues.
qubist Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 Here's a scenario of conflict between us. Her version of exactly how everything started doesn't exactly make sense. She says he found her on a dice game, started chatting and it went from there. But, you can't search people in the dice game, unless its on Facebook and she says it wasn't. So I press the issue about what really happened, she says she doesn't know, big arguments ensue. Truth is unless shes hiding all kids of contact methods that I don't know about, her story is relatively accurate. By "More Open": She has agreed to answer specific questions as long as they don't devolve into a "you're lying, I want to know what really happened" argument. And I do generally see that but we are not really having a good conversation about this (can you ever, LOL). I think she really wants me to just STFU about all this for a day or two and then I think I might be able to get a free flow of info. But honestly, at this point, I don't think there is much of anything that I don't know with exception of a few lingering issues. exactly what I thought, the problem is she is not willing to do the heavy weight lifting a WW supposed to do in order to reconcile. she rather see you sweeping it all under the rug. at best she isn't aware of your emotional struggles at worse she doesn't care about them. I hate to say it but I'm afraid you are wasting time effort and money on MC. the problem is not the marriage the problem is her she needs IC good luck
Author Doorstopper Posted November 5, 2015 Author Posted November 5, 2015 exactly what I thought, the problem is she is not willing to do the heavy weight lifting a WW supposed to do in order to reconcile. she rather see you sweeping it all under the rug. at best she isn't aware of your emotional struggles at worse she doesn't care about them. I hate to say it but I'm afraid you are wasting time effort and money on MC. the problem is not the marriage the problem is her she needs IC good luck She has an appointment in a couple of weeks and we have to workout the details IC. I think we need both the MC and IC. It is helpful, but this is going to be a long walk to a resolution. One of the things I said to the MC is that when I walked in last week, I would not be surprised if W had said "lets talk about unwinding this marraige". W has been numb. I don't think its quite sweeping under the rug that she wants, but she hasn't yet come to term with it. In addition to everything else, I work for myself and have been mostly unemployed for the last 2 weeks, since I can't quite function normally. I am getting better and stronger by the day, but this just plain sucks. On the divorce side, I've started to become much more actively involved n my daughters life (not that I wasn't previously). She is nearly attached to the hip of W and I don't want to "lose" her if we separate.
Author Doorstopper Posted November 5, 2015 Author Posted November 5, 2015 Why don't you ask her to write out her timeline of exactly how it happened? When it started, how she participated including dates and times... She should be in a position of "offering" info to you, not protecting what is real. Then you would have it in writing and can sit down calmly and go through all the details - by asking questions you want answers to. I'm going to bring up a timeline at MC next week. If I ask her now, the answer will be no and an argument. The cell phone access issues last week went the same way but once the MC told W that she can expect no privacy whatsoever, W had no problem with the request. 1
turnera Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 She has agreed to answer specific questions as long as they don't devolve into a "you're lying, I want to know what really happened" argument. And I do generally see that but we are not really having a good conversation about this (can you ever, LOL). I think she really wants me to just STFU about all this for a day or two and then I think I might be able to get a free flow of info. But honestly, at this point, I don't think there is much of anything that I don't know with exception of a few lingering issues. So she's right that you two don't need to be arguing about this. It accomplishes nothing. If you can't talk to her without arguing, stop talking to her until you can. I assume she's back from the hotel, right? Just agree not to talk to each other for the rest of the week, BUT continue to monitor her phone. THAT IS NOT NEGOTIABLE. Make it clear that if she's not willing to let you monitor her phone and computer, you're moving forward with separation. Her choice. But if she's giving you that, just move forward, don't talk about the affair until you meet up with MC again. And go to the book store today and buy the book Not Just Friends and give it to her. Ask her to read it. Now that you're backing off on arguing, she might be amenable. It will open her eyes as to what she's been doing. Also pick up the book His Needs Her Needs, and start reading it together, a little each night. It will be eye opening to both of you, and give you a path forward and most importantly, HOPE for both of you. Don't feel guilty about telling anyone. The more people who know, the more likely she is to give up her 'fantasy' and return to the marriage. And the people who know will help you and her stay on track. 1
qubist Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 but she hasn't yet come to term with it. In addition to everything else, I work for myself and have been mostly unemployed for the last 2 weeks, since I can't quite function normally. I am getting better and stronger by the day, but this just plain sucks. this is what every one here is warning you. you are spending so much energy on this mentally which is exhausting you and keeping you from looking out for yourself. you need to look out for your benefit. live well and focus on yourself,your daughter and your job. you won't be able to do it if you are exhausting your energy on "tolerating" her fantasies. she gotta deal with that on her own. in addition, whistle you hope for the best it is always wise to prepare for the worst, you wanna mentally prepared to move on if the sh**T hits the fan. On the divorce side, I've started to become much more actively involved n my daughters life (not that I wasn't previously). She is nearly attached to the hip of W and I don't want to "lose" her if we separate. good step, you have to start preparing for a possible life without her, it is good for you whether you stay together or not. who knows how long it would take her to finally "come to term" but you have to force her to expedite things. 1
DKT3 Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 Your wife isn't as numb as you think, I bet her insides are doing backflips. What she is doing is trying to control the flow of information, by doing this she is buying time and attempting to control how you react. This isn't a woman that you can work out anything with at this point. It would be smart to start doing the 180 thing and work on being detached from her. In short order her unwillingness to be open and honest will drive you crazy and force your love to turn hateful. Gain some emotional distance and then take another look in. MC is a waste of money at this point, I doubt if anything said there will ring any bells for her and it sure as hell won't progress your marriage while she isn't on your team. Make no mistake its not you AND her its you VS her.
Buckeye2 Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 (edited) On the divorce side, I've started to become much more actively involved n my daughters life (not that I wasn't previously). She is nearly attached to the hip of W and I don't want to "lose" her if we separate. Your wife isn't as numb as you think, I bet her insides are doing back flips. What she is doing is trying to control the flow of information, by doing this she is buying time and attempting to control how you react. What she’s afraid of losing is the stability and security you provide. If you make it clear right out of the box that there is no way she will ever lose those things then she has no reason to come clean or change. She will just stall as DKT3 said until you get tired of causing trouble. Here is an example of how important stability and security are that was posted today: My wife wasn’t remorseful when I confronted her over the end of this past summer and didn’t show any remorse until I exposed her to all of our family and friends and I had her served with divorce papers. After she was served and I moved out of the marital house she had an emotional breakdown and started to beg for a second chance to save our marriage Edited November 5, 2015 by Buckeye2 3
qubist Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 What she’s afraid of losing is the stability and security you provide. If you make it clear right out of the box that there is no way she will ever lose those things then she has no reason to come clean or change. She will just stall as DKT3 said until you get tired of causing trouble. Here is an example of how important stability and security are that was posted today: man, I can give him 1000 example from this forum, I even suggested that he goes and read some of these stories himself. what sh is doing is typical, but what the OP needs to realize is the A is like drug addiction you can cure it by leaving the addicted person having access to the drug and wishing one day he would magically stop.
Author Doorstopper Posted November 6, 2015 Author Posted November 6, 2015 (edited) man, I can give him 1000 example from this forum, I even suggested that he goes and read some of these stories himself. what sh is doing is typical, but what the OP needs to realize is the A is like drug addiction you can cure it by leaving the addicted person having access to the drug and wishing one day he would magically stop. GIVE ME A BREAK! ITS BEEN 10 FREAKING DAYS! Am I suppose to fly across country to get my marraige license so I can file? And at least as of today, if I move out, I'll be in a homeless shelter. As far as reading other stories, post some threads and I'll take a look. I tried looking and gave up after a while. Edited November 6, 2015 by Doorstopper 1
qubist Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 (edited) GIVE ME A BREAK! ITS BEEN 10 FREAKING DAYS! Am I suppose to fly across country to get my marraige license so I can file? And at least as of today, if I move out, I'll be in a homeless shelter. As far as reading other stories, post some threads and I'll take a look. I tried looking and gave up after a while. Doorstopper: first of all, Sorry if I pressured you in a way that made you uncomfortable or if I offended you in any way. That was never my intention. I wish you nothing but success. I wish from the bottom of my heart that everything would be fine between you and your wife without any struggle. I really do. If you think I'm offending you please let me know and I will never post a word in your thread. I'm not a relationship expert, I'm only basing my opinions on experiences similar to yours. I do not know all the details of your life I'm just pointing to some obvious facts good luck Edited November 6, 2015 by qubist
Author Doorstopper Posted November 6, 2015 Author Posted November 6, 2015 Doorstopper: first of all, Sorry if I pressured you in a way that made you uncomfortable or if I offended you in any way. That was never my intention. I wish you nothing but success. I wish from the bottom of my heart that everything would be fine between you and your wife without any struggle. I really do. If you think I'm offending you please let me know and I will never post a word in your thread. I'm not a relationship expert, I'm only basing my opinions on experiences similar to yours. I do not know all the details of your life I'm just pointing to some obvious facts good luck No I'm OK, with any and all comments but, this is still overwhelming. If I'm in the same place in a month, please tell me to wake up. I did tell W that I was preparing to file. This caused an emotional breakdown, on her part last night last night, and things were different this morning. I've made it very clear that none of this will ever be swept under the rug and forgotten. 3
Author Doorstopper Posted November 6, 2015 Author Posted November 6, 2015 While we'd all like to think that going easy on the one that cheats suddenly makes them become faithful again - it just doesn't happen. Rarely does any person stop doing something that's pleasurable to them with severe consequences. Losing something big has to outweigh the pleasure they are getting. Nothing changes if nothing changes. That change isn't likely to come from them - they want their pleasure fix. The change usually is instigated by the betrayed one who allows them to experience what they will lose or how uncomfortable they will get if they keep chasing what their pleasure fix is. Take away their comfort zone and suddenly they start to grow a conscience. If she's still comfortable = she's not likely to change. How can you help her get uncomfortable enough to start changing? I think the comfortably is slowing going away. In addition to my divorce revelation, one of our daughters, who is relatively neutral (or at least doesn't hater her) came home from school for the weekend last night. W would not say a word to her except to say hi. She is having a hard time dealing with this, and its leading to progress.
qubist Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 No I'm OK, with any and all comments but, this is still overwhelming. If I'm in the same place in a month, please tell me to wake up. I did tell W that I was preparing to file. This caused an emotional breakdown, on her part last night last night, and things were different this morning. I've made it very clear that none of this will ever be swept under the rug and forgotten. make sure you are taking care of yourself, the mistake that many betrayed spouses do when A is revealed is they spend all their energy on fighting jealousy, anxiety, trying to comprehend or convincing their wayward spouses to do things, focus on yourself you are at your most vulnerable state. don't forget to keep yourself busy doing things that you like, with friends or kids.
qubist Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 Divorce revelation? Did you file for divorce? What has changed that has made her uncomfortable? Sorry, I'm a bit confused, can you explain what action you've taken that has her feeling uncomfortable now? read what he wrote below I did tell W that I was preparing to file. This caused an emotional breakdown, on her part last night last night, and things were different this morning. I've made it very clear that none of this will ever be swept under the rug and forgotten.
Author Doorstopper Posted November 8, 2015 Author Posted November 8, 2015 More ups than down over the weekend. W still wants it to just go away, but she now understands that there are no circumstances under which that will happen, except divorce. W says that beyond the first few days, she has no desire for contact, now or ever, and has not even thought of him in more than a week. I'm a little skeptical of this, and can't imagine that there wouldn't be some lingering feelings, so soon (less than 2 weeks) after it ended. I'm still working on the D paperwork, but may hold off filing, depending on how things progress. There is movement in the right direction. BTW, is there a list or acronyms used here. I've started trying to read through some other threads but I get confused by some of the acronyms. NC, OW are pretty easy to understand. AP (affair partner)? BH/BW (bitter Husband/WIfe?)
CarrieT Posted November 8, 2015 Posted November 8, 2015 AP (affair partner)? Yes. AP (affair partner)? BH/BW (bitter Husband/WIfe?) Usually BETRAYED Husband/Wife, but bitter works... 2
qubist Posted November 8, 2015 Posted November 8, 2015 More ups than down over the weekend. W still wants it to just go away, but she now understands that there are no circumstances under which that will happen, except divorce. W says that beyond the first few days, she has no desire for contact, now or ever, and has not even thought of him in more than a week. I'm a little skeptical of this, and can't imagine that there wouldn't be some lingering feelings, so soon (less than 2 weeks) after it ended. it is possible that she is out of the fog, trust but always verify. i would continue the counseling and see from there. did she say why she was doing it. I'm still working on the D paperwork, but may hold off filing, depending on how things progress. There is movement in the right direction. it is definitely an improvement. hold on to filling but do not let her know that. again trust but verify. if she wants to reconcile she needs to do what's expected from her. I suggest you print the pinned thread what wayward spouse need to do, and give it to her to read.
Marc878 Posted November 8, 2015 Posted November 8, 2015 Although it seems that the sex part destroys my manhood or maybe excites it, If there wasn't a relationship component between them, I think there would not many issues. She talked to me about how they made a special connection. It really wasn't about sex, it was about the relationship she got. In a way I understand that and that scares me far more than the sex part. We haven't been there for each other. She is the one who called it an affair. She called her mon the next morning to tell her that she cheated on me The issues we need to work out go beyond this. We seemed to get a bit of a compromise tonight. No contact at all. I get phone access but will not read individual texts or messages. I think she's beginning to think he's a sleaze ball but I don't know if I'm being played. If this gets to divorce, it would be her decision. We did go to marriage counseling many years ago. She stopped when she realized that maybe she was responsible for some of the things that have happened. I am worried about her giving up on us. Telling the kids was painful and the two college daughters was difficult. After this happened my wife insisted that all my kids hated me and I needed to hear that wasn't the case. Oldest was home and heard and will not give me any support. Was it right? No, I should have kept my mouth shut. There has been a lot of yelling over the last 2 1/2 days but tonight has been quiet. This site has given me an outlet to vent, and its extremely helpful. Tonight I feel very angry, very sad but or the first time in 3 days I do not feel overwhelmed. The truth is always the best. It has a way of putting a good perspective on things. Why would you not at their age?
Author Doorstopper Posted November 8, 2015 Author Posted November 8, 2015 it is possible that she is out of the fog, trust but always verify. i would continue the counseling and see from there. did she say why she was doing it. it is definitely an improvement. hold on to filling but do not let her know that. again trust but verify. if she wants to reconcile she needs to do what's expected from her. I suggest you print the pinned thread what wayward spouse need to do, and give it to her to read. Thanks,I have given this to her. As I was reading through it, I realized, that it puts into words almost exactly how I feel, in a detail that I could never successfully convey. I think she doesn't yet fully comprehend how I feel, and this will help.
qubist Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 Thanks,I have given this to her. As I was reading through it, I realized, that it puts into words almost exactly how I feel, in a detail that I could never successfully convey. I think she doesn't yet fully comprehend how I feel, and this will help. It is good that you gave her that article to read. It is normal that he feel like it applies to you because it is a based on many experiences. Hopefully she'll read it.
Heatherknows Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 Thanks,I have given this to her. As I was reading through it, I realized, that it puts into words almost exactly how I feel, in a detail that I could never successfully convey. I think she doesn't yet fully comprehend how I feel, and this will help. Give MC a good long try. Divorce is final.
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