Women wearing distracting outfits to work

[USMCHokie]

But this is not about his choice of dress...it's about two women in the office...and quite frankly...it is not any of his business how they dress.

 

I work in an all male environment. If one of them said one word about my clothes I would go directly to the owner of the company.

 

Now if the owner said something about my clothes...I would do as he says or find a new job.

 

This is not rocket science. This is someone's opinion about others he works with. He has brought it to the attention of the office manager who thinks everything is ok.

 

He is higher in the chain of command than the office manager...so her being "ok" with it is rather irrelevant...?

 

Management structures are established so that supervisors at each level can manage the employees within that level. As a supervisor at any level, I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate your subordinates undermining your authority and going straight to the "owner" because her feelings were hurt.

 

It is opinion. It doesn't affect his job. If he is distracted it is his issue.

 

Last time I checked, as a direct supervisor of individuals, my opinion mattered. A lot. Actually, my opinion was all that mattered. This attitude reeks of entitlement complex...but then again, I probably could never work in corporate America...

[USMCHokie]

Eh, he defers to me on most stuff. I could definitely institute whatever kind of change I want, but like I said earlier, I think office chemistry is REALLY important. So although I think the outfits are unprofessional, I still wonder if I should make a stink about it. It's just like with parenting...you have to pick your battles. I like both women. They work hard.

 

I have a feeling that if they are hard working, then they value their jobs and more importantly, they value the work that they do. And part of doing that work is looking the part, especially in a legal atmosphere.

 

My initial reaction is that if these employees had an issue with professional attire in a law office, then I'd be wary of their actual maturity and professional value as employees. If we were talking about what people wear working at the mall, it'd be a different story. But if your office chemistry would completely go to sh*t because you recommended that fellow employees dressed a little more professionally with clients coming in and out, then I'd worry that your chemistry isn't as good as you think it is...

[BrokenManAgain]

Oh for Pete sakes, either you are a leader or you are not! Put up or shut up.

[AngeliqueC]

I've read through all the comments, and as a "mature" woman (slightly over 50!), allow me to make a few observations:

 

I second the opinion that the 20 year old (and likely the 45 year old too!) probably doesn't make as much as the OP and therefore her clothing budget might be as tight as her leggings. (BTW, a pair of leggings at WalMart sells for $6.97 - I've bought three pair this month for 'around the house' wear. Compare this to the last pair of nice slacks I bought at Chico's - $99 - and you might begin to understand the 'leggings vs torn jeans vs nice slacks' budget issues that may be facing your female coworkers.)

 

That said, one way to encourage them to 'fix' their wardrobe 'problem' is to give them a raise or bonus phrased as a "clothing allowance" with the understanding that it will be for business wear or business casual attire.

 

Another form of encouragement - and as a man, you will have to be careful with this, but give it a try anyway - is to be sure to compliment these ladies when they are more appropriately dressed. For example, with the older woman, you could let her know that she looks "ten years younger" when she is appropriately dressed - she will be shopping for age-and-business appropriate clothing immediately after hearing that!! The twenty year old is a different matter, unless this is a quasi-family business and she is family (and will be staying with the business for the next thirty or forty years or more) - in which case, a family member needs to talk with her. Otherwise, I'd let the twenty year old keep dressing like a twenty year old, because chances are good she won't be there in another couple of years - she will be out of college/entry level jobs/etc, maybe go off and get married and be a stay at home young mom, or move into another job or career field. She's young and these things happen, especially when you least expect it.

 

As for writing a dress code, bear in mind that you catch more flies with honey!! Avoid being Draconian; in conversation, mention how it boosts your self-esteem when you have a new suit that fits well, or how good it made you feel when someone noticed your new tie brings out the color of your eyes. It might get others thinking about themselves and their wardrobes! (On the other hand, they might just think you're either self-absorbed or a bit light in the loafers...but that's the risk you take for a better dressed workplace!)

[Got it]

I've read through all the comments, and as a "mature" woman (slightly over 50!), allow me to make a few observations:

 

I second the opinion that the 20 year old (and likely the 45 year old too!) probably doesn't make as much as the OP and therefore her clothing budget might be as tight as her leggings. (BTW, a pair of leggings at WalMart sells for $6.97 - I've bought three pair this month for 'around the house' wear. Compare this to the last pair of nice slacks I bought at Chico's - $99 - and you might begin to understand the 'leggings vs torn jeans vs nice slacks' budget issues that may be facing your female coworkers.)

 

That said, one way to encourage them to 'fix' their wardrobe 'problem' is to give them a raise or bonus phrased as a "clothing allowance" with the understanding that it will be for business wear or business casual attire.

 

Another form of encouragement - and as a man, you will have to be careful with this, but give it a try anyway - is to be sure to compliment these ladies when they are more appropriately dressed. For example, with the older woman, you could let her know that she looks "ten years younger" when she is appropriately dressed - she will be shopping for age-and-business appropriate clothing immediately after hearing that!! The twenty year old is a different matter, unless this is a quasi-family business and she is family (and will be staying with the business for the next thirty or forty years or more) - in which case, a family member needs to talk with her. Otherwise, I'd let the twenty year old keep dressing like a twenty year old, because chances are good she won't be there in another couple of years - she will be out of college/entry level jobs/etc, maybe go off and get married and be a stay at home young mom, or move into another job or career field. She's young and these things happen, especially when you least expect it.

 

As for writing a dress code, bear in mind that you catch more flies with honey!! Avoid being Draconian; in conversation, mention how it boosts your self-esteem when you have a new suit that fits well, or how good it made you feel when someone noticed your new tie brings out the color of your eyes. It might get others thinking about themselves and their wardrobes! (On the other hand, they might just think you're either self-absorbed or a bit light in the loafers...but that's the risk you take for a better dressed workplace!)

 

I disagree with this approach. If the OP takes this way of "more flies with honey" he will find himself easily slapped with a potential sexual harassment or inappropriate attention claim. A man, complimenting a woman on her dress, regardless of how he dresses it up (pun intended) can be misinterpreted greatly and puts him ultimately in a very awkward situation.

 

The only way to change this is to get the owner partner onboard with a dress code change and have an office wide change on what is considered appropriate dress. While they don't need to swing all the way to super conservative, but can easily go to a more formal of just dark jeans, tailored fit on clothing, nothing tight, loss or sheer enough to show undergarments, etc. No pj, sweat, or similar bottoms, no shorts or tee shirts, etc.

 

More of a business casual but a step up from what they currently have.

 

For all my ribbing, I do agree a more formal dress code is "better" based on my own preference though what annoys me with dress codes are they are by default focused on women and what others/men deem as distracting.

 

As a full sweep approach it doesn't target any one person as the idea of complimenting or steering an individual does.

 

OP- if you would like a more formal dress code policy that is still somewhat casual I would be happy to post for you.

[MightyPen]

Got It,

 

I wouldn't mind seeing it as an example anyway. I mean it can't hurt.

 

And I'm stiiiiiilllllll waiting for the clarification that you don't really think I'm egotistical. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to start my morning hair routine.

[Got it]

This is probably more than what is needed but a general policy that is more focused on business casual than formal attire. This is for a company that has both white collar and blue collar workers ergo some of the restrictions.

 

Dress, grooming, and personal cleanliness standards contribute to the morale of all employees and affect the business image that XXXXXX presents to its visitors and customers. To favorably impress our customers and visitors to the office, it is important that all employees' business attire present a clean, neat, and professional appearance as well as avoiding extremes of any kind.

Hair must be clean, and neat. Nails must be clean and trimmed. Excessive or dangling jewelry is not permitted when working with or around machinery that may cause an entrapment hazard or injury.

Tattoos that are visible (i.e., neck and forearms) must be non-offensive in nature. Any visible tattoos which contain wording or pictures which include nudity, gang affiliations, profanity and/or are offensive in nature, are prohibited and must be covered with sleeves or neck garments while working.

Visible body modification (i.e. piercings) should be minimal. Ornamentation should be limited to two (2) per ear. Eyebrow, tongue, nose, or lip piercing ornamentation are not permitted while working.

Appropriate safety coverings must be worn on open sores, cuts, abrasions, or other wounds.

Undergarments are NOT permitted to show while working. Appropriate undergarments must be worn.

Business Casual wear is allowed in the office. Garments with offensive logos, phrases, or pictures, which contain nudity or profanity, are not permitted. Excessively tight clothing, short shorts or skirts, low-cut tops, and/or muscle tank type shirts are not permitted.

Employees should discuss any accommodation needs with their supervisor. If an employee dresses inappropriately, he or she will be counseled by a supervisor. Dress code violations that are exceptionally unprofessional or unsafe may result in the employee being sent home without pay. Good judgment is the main guideline to follow. All employees should practice common sense rules of neatness, good taste, and comfort.

[Got it]

If you google dress code policy examples you will find other company's posted online for more examples. Or if you join SHRM, minimal cost, has numerous policy examples for a wide range of HR needs.

[AngeliqueC]

Got_it, my point was to avoid being Draconian in a dress code - instead of a long list of "no" this or that or "do not" wear that or this, something more positive, such as "business casual" and maybe some examples of what business casual means for the company.

 

Likewise, avoid being overly vague - I worked in Arizona at an educational institution, and one summer, a new "policy" was dropped on us out of the blue from a dean (an obese older woman, btw) decreeing that "summer attire" would not be permitted. When I inquired further, her idea of summer attire wasn't simply shorts or tanks tops - it was ANYTHING even remotely "summerish" in color or style. I had just dropped nearly a thousand bucks on a summer wardrobe from Coldwater Creek - summer whites (slacks and blouses), nautical themed blouses and blazers, etc - NONE of it was "approved" for the office. I was steamed, but there really wasn't much to do except take the hit and make my spring stuff go thru a very long and HOT summer.

 

Word to the wise - when dealing with women and their clothing, err on the side of positivity and bear in mind there remains a wage gap between men and women, management and support staff that decent bosses should consider when enacting a policy. (i have one friend, a CPA, who was even told which high end brands of business suits were approved/required for her company - and she wasn't in the fashion industry!!)

[Got it]

Here is an example from a quick google search from SHRM:

 

Objective

 

[Company Name] employees contribute to the corporate culture and reputation in the way they present themselves. A professional appearance is essential to a favorable impression with customers, regulators and company shareholders (owners). Good grooming and appropriate dress reflect employee pride and inspire confidence on the part of such persons.

 

Procedures

 

[Company Name] department managers may exercise reasonable discretion to determine appropriateness in employee dress and appearance. Employees who do not meet a professional standard may be sent home to change, and nonexempt employees will not be paid for that time off.

 

Basic guidelines for appropriate attire

 

Basic elements for appropriate and professional business attire include socks or stockings and clothing that is in neat and clean condition. Basic guidelines for appropriate workplace dress do not include tight or short pants, tank tops, halter tops, low-cut blouses or sweaters, or any extreme style or fashion in dress, footwear, accessories, fragrances or hair.

 

Although it is impossible and undesirable to establish an absolute dress and appearance code, [Company Name] will apply a reasonable and professional workplace standard to individuals on a case-by-case basis. Management may make exceptions for special occasions or in the case of inclement weather, at which time employees will be notified in advance. An employee unsure of what is appropriate should check with his or her manager or supervisor.

 

If a supervisor or manager decides that an employee’s dress or appearance is not appropriate as outlined in this policy, he or she may take corrective action and require the employee to leave the work area and make the necessary changes to comply with the policy.

 

Business casual

 

Business casual dress will be permitted on Fridays, except during specified and announced periods when casual days will be suspended. Some departments may require specific guidelines that differ from the business casual guidelines. Employees who must leave work to change clothes for business reasons will use personal time or vacation time to do so. When meeting clients, business dress guidelines must be observed, unless the client has specifically requested otherwise.

 

Business casual for Fridays is defined as follows:

 

Casual shirts:All shirts with collars, business casual crewneck or V-neck shirts, blouses, golf and polo shirts. Examples of inappropriate shirts include T-shirts, shirts with inappropriate slogans, tank tops, muscle shirts, camouflage and crop tops. In specified circumstances, T-shirts may be approved and provided for specific events only.

Pants:Casual slacks and trousers and jeans without holes, frays, etc. Examples of inappropriate pants include shorts (except for walking-length shorts), camouflage and pants worn below the waist or hip line.

Footwear: Casual slip-on or tie shoes, dress sandals with heel straps and athletic shoes if approved by the department. Examples of inappropriate footwear include floppy sandals, flip-flops and construction or hunting boots.

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Another that is more broad in its coverage:

 

Practice Note

 

This sample Attire and Grooming Policy establishes guidelines for appropriate workplace appearance, clothing, grooming, natural and artificial scents, and hygiene. It provides that department heads will establish guidelines appropriate for the specific work setting and for the work being performed, as well as for exceptional circumstances, such as weather and holidays. The policy establishes procedures for instructing employees about the guidelines and gives examples of inappropriate attire. It addresses positions requiring special dress or grooming standards and positions requiring company uniforms. It also specifically addresses guidelines for casual or dress-down days and business attire. The policy provides for corrective action for individuals who do not comply with the guidelines, and it addresses situations involving personal hygiene and body odors. The policy specifically addresses reasonable accommodations for religious beliefs. In enforcing the anti-discrimination provisions of the Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission takes the position, “An employer may require all workers to follow a uniform dress code even if the dress code conflicts with some workers’ ethnic beliefs or practices. However, if the dress code conflicts with religious practices, the employer must modify the dress code unless doing so would result in undue hardship.” See Religious Garb and Grooming in the Workplace: Rights and Responsibilities. For a sample policy on uniforms, see Uniforms Policy and Procedure. For a discussion of dress and appearance issues generally, see Managing Employee Dress and Appearance.

 

 

 

Objective

 

[Company Name] strives to maintain a workplace environment that is well functioning and free from unnecessary distractions and annoyances. As part of that effort, the company requires employees to maintain a neat and clean appearance that is appropriate for the workplace setting and for the work being performed. To that end, [Company Name] department heads may determine and enforce guidelines for workplace-appropriate attire and grooming for their areas; guidelines may limit natural or artificial scents that could be distracting or annoying to others.

 

Procedures

 

All [Company Name] staff members are expected to present a professional, businesslike image to clients, visitors, customers and the public. Acceptable personal appearance, like proper maintenance of work areas, is an ongoing requirement of employment with [Company Name].

 

Supervisors should communicate any department-specific workplace attire and grooming guidelines to staff members during new-hire orientation and evaluation periods. Any questions about the department’s guidelines for attire should be discussed with the immediate supervisor.

 

Any staff member who does not meet the attire or grooming standards set by his or her department will be subject to corrective action and may be asked to leave the premises to change clothing. Hourly paid staff members will not be compensated for any work time missed because of failure to comply with designated workplace attire and grooming standards.

 

All staff members must carry or wear the [Company Name] identification badge at all times while at work.

 

Specific requirements

 

Certain staff members may be required to meet special dress, grooming and hygiene standards, such as wearing uniforms or protective clothing, depending on the nature of their job. Uniforms and protective clothing may be required for certain positions and will be provided to employees by [Company Name].

 

At the discretion of the department head, in special circumstances, such as during unusually hot or cold weather or during special occasions, staff members may be permitted to dress in a more casual fashion than is normally required. On these occasions, staff members are still expected to present a neat appearance and are not permitted to wear ripped, frayed or disheveled clothing or athletic wear. Likewise, tight, revealing or otherwise workplace-inappropriate dress is not permitted

 

Reasonable accommodation of religious beliefs

 

[Company Name] recognizes the importance of individually held religious beliefs to persons within its workforce. [Company Name] will reasonably accommodate a staff member’s religious beliefs in terms of workplace attire unless the accommodation creates an undue hardship. Accommodation of religious beliefs in terms of attire may be difficult in light of safety issues for staff members. Those requesting a workplace attire accommodation based on religious beliefs should be referred to the human resource (HR) department.

 

Casual or dress-down days

 

Departments that adopt casual or dress-down days must use the following guidelines to define appropriate casual attire.

 

 

 

Appropriate

 

Inappropriate

 

Slacks

 

Khakis or corduroys

Jeans (must be clean and free of rips, tears and fraying; may not be excessively tight or revealing)

Skorts, capris

Sweatpants, leggings, exercise wear

Shorts, low-rise or hip-hugger pants or jeans

Shirts

 

Polo collar knit or golf shirts

Oxford shirts

Company logo wear

Short-sleeve blouses or shirts

Turtlenecks

Blazers or sport coats

Jackets or sweaters

Shirts with writing (other than company logo)

T-shirts or sweatshirts

Beachwear

Sleeveless blouses or shirts

Exercise wear

Crop tops, clothing showing midriffs, spaghetti straps

 

 

Shoes

 

Boating or deck shoes, moccasins

Casual, low-heel, open-back shoes (e.g., mules, sling backs)

Sandals, thongs, flip flops, open-toe shoes

Athletic shoes, tennis shoes, Croc-like sandals

 

Business attire

 

The following guidelines apply to business attire:

 

For men, business attire includes a long-sleeved dress shirt, tie, tailored sport coat worn with dress trousers (not khakis) and dress shoes.

For women, business attire includes tailored pantsuits, businesslike dresses, coordinated dressy separates worn with or without a blazer, and conservative, closed-toe shoes.

Addressing workplace attire and hygiene problems

 

Violations of the policy can range from inappropriate clothing items to offensive perfumes and body odor. If a staff member comes to work in inappropriate dress, the staff member will be required to go home, change into conforming attire or properly groom, and return to work.

 

If a staff member’s poor hygiene or use of too much perfume/cologne is an issue, the supervisor should discuss the problem with the staff member in private and should point out the specific areas to be corrected. If the problem persists, supervisors should follow the normal corrective action process.

 

 

 

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[TheFinalWord]

How does a man in a professional (yet relatively small) office environment handle this?

 

The quick and dirty...

 

1) I am NOT the office manager. I have spoken with the office manager. She doesn't see much of an issue. She's far too casual for my taste.

 

2) Woman A is 20 years old, extremely smart and extremely attractive. She wears tights (no skirt) in a professional environment and I don't feel it's appropriate. She does have a great body and on some level I don't mind, but objectively speaking it's just not appropriate.

 

3) Woman B is 45ish and wears torn jeans and blouses that show off her many tattoos. I am not anti-tattoo at all, but some of our clients are conservative, and really it's more an issue of her torn jeans. They don't give a professional vibe at all. I mention her age because I think she should know better.

 

4) I am one of only two men in the office. I wear a suit or else I wear business casual. The other women wear business casual attire.

 

All this being said, no clients have actually complained (to my knowledge) and the office manager said no one else had complained to her.

 

Should I let this drop?

 

If you have some power to set office rules, yes, you need to update your handbook. I know personally I would not want to get legal council from an office where the staff looks like the are techies for a punk rock band, but that's just me (and I am a Romanes fan). Certain professions do have an image that goes along with their services. It's just the way it is.

 

You could put a clause about business casual dress code and give examples of what that means. You might also give a phase-in period of 6 months to give people time to deal with the changes. Dealing with young people I can tell you, some of them literally need to be told about professional dress. So you will need to provide examples. If you have a woman on staff, she may be better at enforcing to the women in the office. When it comes to women, I never say anything about the way they look as I have found it can interpreted incorrectly. I have also had women make comments about my looks that I did not like, so I understand where they are coming from. Overall, it is better to have a woman talk with the women. Either that or the way we sometimes change the culture is to hire an external consultant to evaluate our organization's culture. Be careful though because they might also suggest solutions about you as well

 

Of course, if you have no management power you will just need to drop it. Another option is to find a different job if it bothers you too much.

Edited October 24, 2015 by TheFinalWord

[pureinheart]

IMO OP they are dressed uncool. This has always tripped me out- the fact that some are unaware of proper dress. Like wearing a suit when you are a laborer .. for real? I have seen that BTW.

 

When men or women dressed inappropriately, as there was a dress code (I think it's sad that there has to be one), they were sent home...