Women wearing distracting outfits to work

[MightyPen]

Please. You are a small office that consists of only a few employees. There is no HR, no real handbook and this is some hole in the wall shop. And you are ego tripping.

 

If you are distracted, control your eyes. If you want to raise the professionalism in the office, then suggest that they hire an HR professional.

 

If you really felt you had as much power as you seem to tout here you would have already said something to the owner about "taking on" this issue.

 

Please. Leggings.

 

 

We are not some hole in the wall shop! We have a sign and everything!

 

And yes I have some power but I'm always wise enough to know you don't need to necessarily fight every battle. (Also being married has taught me this. I've seen both Pitch Perfect movies). The two employees are otherwise good employees, especially the younger one. So here I am asking the opinions of strangers on the internet.

 

Maybe I'll wear leggings with one of my offensive t-shirts tomorrow, seeing as how it's Friday and all. I could even wear my head band that I mentioned in the exercise thread.

[MightyPen]

What industry is this OP?

 

I agree with others, you need a manual with a dress code. I have never worked in a office where jeans were acceptable, let alone ones with holes.

 

Business casual usually means no jeans, no T shirts, no exposed shoulders, no short skirts etc etc. Tights don't make the cut either.

 

Once clear guidelines are in place - it will be easier to enforce the rules.

 

And its not just about "being distracting", proper dress shows attention to detail, it reflects a professional attitude - it shows your clients that you mean business... and aren't just hangin' with your friends.

 

While I prefer to dress casual (hey its comfy!) I enjoy the respect that dressing professionally commands.

 

 

We're a small law office. We're somewhat "unstuffy" for a law office, and we have grown from being a "hole in the wall" that another poster (-shakes a fist at Got It-) described into something slightly nicer. It's all about baby steps. And I should have focused on the "unprofessional" aspect as opposed to the "distracting" aspect. I don't want you thinking I'm checking out the 20-year-old all day.

[RecentChange]

^^^ got it. And I wasn't insinuating that you were distracted, "professional" is just the way to address it with them.

 

I happen to work in a small law office as well (just 4 of us here) and our clients rarely come into the office.... Yet what you described would never fly (our focus is commercial real estate / financial services - not sure what yours is).

 

Even in a very liberal city like San Francisco, most law offices adhere to a dress code.

[empresario]

Seeing sex when you look at a woman is completely a result of brain wiring and social conditioning...not force.

 

 

Practice avoiding fantasy, sexual imagery, and looking at her lady parts, and in time you won't do it anymore. I've done it, and it made my intra-company politics way easier (especially as a business owner).

 

 

It is conditioning. And conditioning can be reversed.

[newmoon]

if there is no formal/written dress code then there is really nothing the supervisor can do. if they speak to the employee the employee at that point could actually sue them for discrimination. the supervisor would first need to develop a dress code for all employees - male and female - before they single someone out. policy has to come before discipline for legal reasons. until a dress code is in place it's your own choice to be concentrating on the outfits the women wear.

[No_Go]

Ohh, maybe it is my conservative European mind but I still think legging are not pants - they are not even sold in the pants section but together with hosiery!

 

And sure, not all jobs require professional business attire - but an office setting (my understanding about OP's job) does so.

 

When I drop my child off at elementary school, I see young teachers walking in wearing leggings as pants every day. Society has accepted leggings as pants. No, it's not professional attire, but not all jobs require professional attire.

[Maggie4]

I think the 20 year old can benefit from some advice. She just doesn't know better that's all. Tell her that as the company grows, and as she gets further in her professional career, she should acquire a more polished look. She needs to look in some magazines and experiment with outfits. I think she might feel good about that. The 45 year old might start to feel out of place when she's the only casual one left.

[preraph]

It sounds just like my office. So here's what insight I can offer. If the boss is a male, he doesn't care and in fact enjoys the cute one showing it all off. I swear we have a pretty girl at my office who for the longest time wore tights and nothing much else and shows boob, but she has cooled it a little, and I'm not sure why, but relieved, because although I am female, a rack staring me in the fact is disconcerting. We also have the older one with tatoos, except she's not as old as she looks and just had a kid early and looks older than she is. She wears skin tight stuff, and I'm not throwing stones but she is overweight, so you can see every roll. Now, I'm sure some of it is because of her tight budget. I'm overweight and I try not to wear spandex, you know??

 

While my boss doesn't mostly care, I really do believe that the latter has been held back from expanding her job to see clients because of her appearance (and I will go out on a limb and say that I probably have as well because I'm overweight and old and so despite my efforts, I never look nice and overly neat or well dressed). So it can hold you back. He does just recently have the cute one running some errands, but she has toned it down a little lately.

 

Dressing badly craps out your chances for advancement. So if nothing else, you can judge those people for that alone, not being ambitious enough to want to advance, though both these two do their jobs very well. It's not their work holding them back.

[USMCHokie]

Well, this isn't workplace sexual harassment so the argument is invalid. If not prohibited in their employment agreement, the OP can wear any clothes he chooses to work and other people can be as distracted as they choose to be. If they choose to attempt to exert social or political pressure and damage him as a result, that's actionable, as is the reverse. In our industry, women wear distracting clothes all the time and the parade of men through the office is legendary. Life goes on.

 

It is not my place to make the determination of sexual harassment. What I am not surprised by though is the relative ease in which a supervisor summarily dismisses a concern from another employee that may or may not constitute sexual harassment.

[USMCHokie]

if there is no formal/written dress code then there is really nothing the supervisor can do. if they speak to the employee the employee at that point could actually sue them for discrimination. the supervisor would first need to develop a dress code for all employees - male and female - before they single someone out. policy has to come before discipline for legal reasons. until a dress code is in place it's your own choice to be concentrating on the outfits the women wear.

 

This made me giggle, but it also made me sad inside that people have developed such a level of self-entitlement nowadays...

 

And uh...not a chance on the discrimination claim here...

[USMCHokie]

We're a small law office. We're somewhat "unstuffy" for a law office, and we have grown from being a "hole in the wall" that another poster (-shakes a fist at Got It-) described into something slightly nicer. It's all about baby steps. And I should have focused on the "unprofessional" aspect as opposed to the "distracting" aspect. I don't want you thinking I'm checking out the 20-year-old all day.

 

So I take it you're one of the partners here? Aside from some b*tching and complaining from the employees, there's not a whole lot stopping you from just telling them to ramp up the more professional attire. You don't need it "in writing," either, as some seem to presume.

[thefooloftheyear]

Decide what you think is proper for your environment, if you are El Jefe, then you can make some suggestions.....I generally don't have too much of a problem....Any of the women that have worked for me all seemed to dress appropriately and I never gave it much thought or concern...

 

I think a lot has to do with what how they act or carry themselves...One of my suppliers has a woman that works for him....She flirts with every swinging dick that walks into the place, wears skin tight clothes that look unflattering as she is overweight and sticks her tits in your face every chance she gets....yeah...Tone it down, sista.......

 

TFY

[mrs rubble]

May I suggest you introduce a uniform?

A simple plain shirt with a firm monogram embroidered on it, and ask the staff to wear their own choice of tailored trousers or skirt with it.

[Got it]

It is not my place to make the determination of sexual harassment. What I am not surprised by though is the relative ease in which a supervisor summarily dismisses a concern from another employee that may or may not constitute sexual harassment.

 

Because you look at a woman and are seeing her sexually doesn't mean she is creating sexual harassment. You are responsible for your actions. So unless her outfits are so egregious, like a bikini, etc. then the onus is on you.

 

Look it up in your company's handbook, I am sure they have multiple pages going over what actually constitutes sexual harassment and what it needs to entail.

[Got it]

Mighty I am very familiar with law firms and small offices, like what you work in, tend to have no dress codes. One internship I did was in a personal injury firm, with only a couple employees and the secertary was very interestingly dressed.

 

They don't tend to have dress codes so this makes a lot of sense. Let me guess, the owner is the only partner, and you are support attorney. A larger firm will of course have a dress code and they are usually very conservative in appearance. If this is really an issue, there are a lot of very positives ways that you can approach this. What has rubbed me the wrong way is your declaring their dress is distracting. That is a sexual compenent that is on you, not them. More professional, makes a lot of sense. Because you may be a horndog, all you.

 

Of course some of the MOST inappropriate people I have ever met are attorneys. It is amazing, especially those that focus on employment law, will act and cross lines that are ridiculous. Skeavy people.

 

God love attorneys, some of the most egotistical individuals:laugh:.

[Mrs. John Adams]

LOVE THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^Got it

[O'Malley]

It sounds like both employees are applying "casual Friday" mentality to their workplace appearance. I do agree that there are positive ways to address the issue.

 

If you and the office manager can have a frank but amiable conversation with both employees, then do so. Make it about the standard for your industry, rather than personalizing the issue. Preface the conversation by discussing their work contributions. "I value your performance, but projecting a professional, polished appearance means a lot in our profession as well as to our clients." Address them the same way that you would a male employee, simply that you would prefer that they both dress in a more business casual manner, i.e. dress shirts and pants rather than jeans, leggings or other casual attire. They can always have Friday to wear jeans (not ripped). Before any future hires, it's simple enough to implement a business casual dress code.

 

Your personal distraction isn't the relevant point, the fact they are representative of the firm to potential clients is. These clients are going to have more of an impression of professional capability and success when office staff is dressed in a business casual manner, rather than street clothes.

Edited October 23, 2015 by O'Malley

[BlueIris]

Eek. Attorneys are so hated.

 

There are people who are so beautiful or sexy-looking that others will be distracted or turned on regardless of what they wear. I suppose. But sometimes that argument seems a wee bit disingenuous. When someone wears skin-tight clothing, mini-skirts and low-cut tops to work, it’s very hard to believe that she has NO intention whatsoever of drawing attention to how sexy or provocative she looks. I don’t think, “I’d like to have sex with her.” I’m a hetero woman. But I do think, “Whoa! Cleavage! Big cleavage!” or “Dear God, do not bend over!!! Something’s going to fall out!!!” I just can’t buy that they have no attention-seeking intention, or that they’re “just drawn that way.”

 

Edited October 23, 2015 by BlueIris

[SoleMate]

Funny, I work in a male-dominated workplace that is very casual. If I ruled it all, I would require every male to wear long pants (to cover their gorilla-like leg hair), closed toe shoes, and shirts that are sufficiently thick and opaque to skim over and conceal their loose and quivering rolls of abdominal fat. Also, I would demand that any facial hair be well-trimmed and head hair be thoroughly shampooed and kept combed, and tied back if long. That is to avoid distracting me. Unfortunately, that is a dress code I'm sure I'll never see...

[BlueIris]

Funny, I work in a male-dominated workplace that is very casual. If I ruled it all, I would require every male to wear long pants (to cover their gorilla-like leg hair), closed toe shoes, and shirts that are sufficiently thick and opaque to skim over and conceal their loose and quivering rolls of abdominal fat. Also, I would demand that any facial hair be well-trimmed and head hair be thoroughly shampooed and kept combed, and tied back if long. That is to avoid distracting me. Unfortunately, that is a dress code I'm sure I'll never see...

 

That reminds me of a big meeting I attended once, all lawyers, and one guy- excuse me, one lawyer - showed up in a Tommy Bahama-ish shirt open down his chest, ragged cargo shorts and sandals. Everyone else was in a suit- your standard, blah uniform of lawyers. The looks on everyone’s faces were… kind of… “what the hell?!” or maybe, “you don’t want to be here, do you?” or maybe, “too cool for school?” Whatever those looks meant, it was distracting, at least for a bit, and he was peripheral to the conversation.

[MightyPen]

So I take it you're one of the partners here? Aside from some b*tching and complaining from the employees, there's not a whole lot stopping you from just telling them to ramp up the more professional attire. You don't need it "in writing," either, as some seem to presume.

 

 

Yeah I'm more like the "senior associate" but you seem to get the point.

 

And as I read other responses, I realize I should have worded my original poster more clearly. I wasn't really looking for legal or HR advise, because I understand employment law quite well, but I was tossing it out more as a "should I really push this?" from a more practical/layman's standpoint. Office chemistry is important, and I actually don't rock the boat very often. I focus on getting my shi*t done and bringing in the dollahs.

[MightyPen]

Funny, I work in a male-dominated workplace that is very casual. If I ruled it all, I would require every male to wear long pants (to cover their gorilla-like leg hair), closed toe shoes, and shirts that are sufficiently thick and opaque to skim over and conceal their loose and quivering rolls of abdominal fat. Also, I would demand that any facial hair be well-trimmed and head hair be thoroughly shampooed and kept combed, and tied back if long. That is to avoid distracting me. Unfortunately, that is a dress code I'm sure I'll never see...

 

 

I would fully support this! As a man without gorilla hair or quivering rolls of abdominal fat (I liked that line), I have been in work situations with plenty of both. Ugh. Don't you love when you can make out the outlines of the fat rolls even through the too-tight golf shirt?

[MightyPen]

Mighty I am very familiar with law firms and small offices, like what you work in, tend to have no dress codes. One internship I did was in a personal injury firm, with only a couple employees and the secertary was very interestingly dressed.

 

They don't tend to have dress codes so this makes a lot of sense. Let me guess, the owner is the only partner, and you are support attorney. A larger firm will of course have a dress code and they are usually very conservative in appearance. If this is really an issue, there are a lot of very positives ways that you can approach this. What has rubbed me the wrong way is your declaring their dress is distracting. That is a sexual compenent that is on you, not them. More professional, makes a lot of sense. Because you may be a horndog, all you.

 

Of course some of the MOST inappropriate people I have ever met are attorneys. It is amazing, especially those that focus on employment law, will act and cross lines that are ridiculous. Skeavy people.

 

God love attorneys, some of the most egotistical individuals:laugh:.

 

 

Wait...are you implying that I am egotistical or did you forget to add the always appreciated "present company excluded, of course?"

 

And yes I realize I shouldn't have used the word "distracting," but in all fairness, a certain style of dress can be distracting in a non-sexual way, and it can be distracting to people besides yours truly. But yes, I should have phrased it as "non-professional"...because it is.

 

If I can rock a suit most days and look pretty damn amazing, I figure others can "up their game" and do the same. I'll wait for the explanation about your "egotistical" statement now.

 

-waits-

[MightyPen]

That reminds me of a big meeting I attended once, all lawyers, and one guy- excuse me, one lawyer - showed up in a Tommy Bahama-ish shirt open down his chest, ragged cargo shorts and sandals. Everyone else was in a suit- your standard, blah uniform of lawyers. The looks on everyone’s faces were… kind of… “what the hell?!” or maybe, “you don’t want to be here, do you?” or maybe, “too cool for school?” Whatever those looks meant, it was distracting, at least for a bit, and he was peripheral to the conversation.

 

 

And the funny thing is, I'm guessing he was probably pretty awesome.

[LivingWaterPlease]

As a woman who works in the field of appearances and creating visual impressions I disagree with those who think seeing a scantily-clad or inappropriately-dressed woman affects only those men who allow it to.

 

We know that what a woman, or a man for that matter, wears influences both consciously and subconsciously the people who see them. This is a major consideration for the entire visual aspect of marketing in movies, television, print media and all advertising.

 

Companies spend millions to market and to make certain that the model or actress representing their brand is dressed appropriately to convey the desired message.

 

Newsflash to all who think only perverse men are affected by a female's skimpy attire: it ain't so.

 

Imagine a television commercial for a law office. Do you think any set director would have a female actress in that role wearing leggings or torn jeans? Absolutely not!

 

OP, your office IS a marketing venue whether the employees realize it or not. Kudos to you for recognizing that.

 

In your place I'd talk with the owner about my concerns. Think it through, consult with some people you know who are diplomatic, wise and can advise you on your presentation if you don't have confidence in your ability to do so.

 

You should be able to figure out a way to let Ms. Leggings and Ms. Torn Jeans realize you have their best interests at heart and that this is a matter of professional support and growth for them, not a way to be dictatorial.