"The Rules"

[katiegrl]

You seem interested in the effectiveness of the rules and you're pointing out examples where they seem to be working. I was simply offering counter points.No argument here. We overcomplicate something that should be so simple.

 

Well....being that there are sooooo many threads created by guys pining over some chick he's dating... wondering and confused about her behavior (not texting first, not initiating dates, etc etc etc) -- asking posters, does she like me? what is she thinking? what should I do? Etc etc.....

 

 

it stands to reason that they DO work for "some" guys....

 

 

Not all obviously like you...which is good IMO.

[katiegrl]

I haven't read The Rules, so I can only comment on the ones listed in this thread. Several of them are counterintuitive to forming a relationship with me. Thus, you're correct. When a women exhibits those specific behaviors, I say "screw it" and move on.

 

As well you should!

 

 

I am engaged and I KNOW if I had followed those Rules, I would NOT be engaged right now....at least not to HIM.

 

 

He would never stand for that shyt -- or any sort of game playing, which is what that book is about.

 

 

Unfortunately though, again, those Rules DO work in many cases.

 

 

Maybe they work on guys who are also insecure, who prefer a woman to be a challenge and somewhat unattainable.... or maybe he's a commitment-phobe or a "player" who wants what he can't have.

 

 

Whatever it is, they do work sometimes.

Edited October 12, 2015 by katiegrl

[Shining One]

Whatever it is, they do work sometimes.

I agree, they do have a certain level of effectiveness. I wonder what the end goal is though.

 

Speaking for men, some of us (including me) play games to get a woman in bed. Obviously, this doesn't work on all women, but it does work on some. I see The Rules as the female equivalent of these games, but I don't understand what the end goal is for the women. Is it relationships? If so, I can't imagine that relationships started with games would have lengthy lifespans.

[phineas]

But this is assuming he has seen your profile. That's a really big assumption!

There are thousands of thousands of profiles on any dating site.

 

Sure he may not respond. But if he doesn't, he just isn't interested. I can't imagine a guy who would not respond to someone he liked simply because she message first. That would just be stupid.

 

There is truth to this.

i've had women contact me on POF & OKCupid that i never saw on the sites.

they simply didn't show up in my searches & we actually ended up dating for months.

[joseb]

Well....being that there are sooooo many threads created by guys pining over some chick he's dating... wondering and confused about her behavior (not texting first, not initiating dates, etc etc etc) -- asking posters, does she like me? what is she thinking? what should I do? Etc etc.....

 

it stands to reason that they DO work for "some" guys....

.

 

I'm not sure I'd point to guys posting on here with problems as validation of the rules. I think it's likely if the girls didn't employ these rules in the first place, a lot of them might be be in happy relationships instead of engaged in perpetual mind games.

[katiegrl]

I agree, they do have a certain level of effectiveness. I wonder what the end goal is though.

 

Speaking for men, some of us (including me) play games to get a woman in bed. Obviously, this doesn't work on all women, but it does work on some. I see The Rules as the female equivalent of these games, but I don't understand what the end goal is for the women. Is it relationships? If so, I can't imagine that relationships started with games would have lengthy lifespans.

 

 

I agree.

 

 

It sort of begs the question -- at what point does a woman STOP employing these Rules?

 

 

And what happens when she does? Will the man then lose interest because she is no longer a challenge?

 

 

It doesn't make any sense.

 

 

Unless of course, a woman intends to follow the Rules for the rest of her life...lol to keep the guy challenged and intrigued.

 

 

I suppose that "would" work for some people -- people who fear intimacy or closeness.... not a very healthy way to have a RL IMO, but to each his own.

 

 

By the way, just curious, but what are some of the games YOU play to get a woman into bed?

 

 

Care to share?

[katiegrl]

But this is assuming he has seen your profile. That's a really big assumption!

There are thousands of thousands of profiles on any dating site.

 

Sure he may not respond. But if he doesn't, he just isn't interested. I can't imagine a guy who would not respond to someone he liked simply because she message first. That would just be stupid.

 

 

No that's not what I meant, nor do I think that's what the author meant.

 

 

He won't get turned off "because" a chick wrote him first.... if he doesn't write first, then he was never interested, so a chick writing him first is just moot. He was never interested enough in the first place.

 

But like you said, maybe he never saw her profile!

 

 

So maybe she could send a "wink" or is that too cheesy?

 

 

When I did Match.com many moons ago, they had the "wink" function.

 

 

Not sure if that's the case anymore.

 

 

Then he could view her profile and if he likes, message her first!

 

 

Or she could just take the bull by the horn and message him first!

Edited October 12, 2015 by katiegrl

[BluEyeL]

But this is assuming he has seen your profile. That's a really big assumption!

There are thousands of thousands of profiles on any dating site.

 

Sure he may not respond. But if he doesn't, he just isn't interested. I can't imagine a guy who would not respond to someone he liked simply because she message first. That would just be stupid.

I went around this by viewing the profiles of all men with the stats I was looking for once a week. Usually that made them see me. I rarely emailed a man first and when I did, it didn't lead to a date even if they responded.

[alphamale]

hi toodles

[joseb]

I went around this by viewing the profiles of all men with the stats I was looking for once a week. Usually that made them see me.

 

On the flip side, maybe he saw you looked at the profile, but as you didn't contact him, then its obvious you didn't like what you see....or that you think they looked good but after viewing the profile you thought, nah, not a good match. Next.

 

I rarely emailed a man first and when I did, it didn't lead to a date even if they responded.

 

I've emailed a few women and when I did, it almost never lead to a date, even if they responded. So should I stop?

[BluEyeL]

On the flip side, maybe he saw you looked at the profile, but as you didn't contact him, then its obvious you didn't like what you see....or that you think they looked good but after viewing the profile you thought, nah, not a good match. Next.

 

 

 

I've emailed a few women and when I did, it almost never lead to a date, even if they responded. So should I stop?

It could happen but in practice I always had a few fish in my net when I woke up the next morning after such a viewing spree. The great majority of these interactions led to dates. So this approach worked for me. I even found my boyfriend on match doing exactly this. I believe that if a man liked me enough, he would still email me even if he had doubts about why I didn't email him. Men may not like it, but they still know that they are still expected to be the aggressor and initiate conversations, while a woman is flirting by looking at him.

 

No, you should not stop, unless stopping would better serve your interests. In which case, you should stop. I personally did what I thought would serve my interests and so everybody should.

[joseb]

No, you should not stop, unless stopping would better serve your interests. In which case, you should stop. I personally did what I thought would serve my interests and so everybody should.

 

Yeah personally I stopped overthinking it and just messaged whoever I wanted to Didn't bother with the (usually awful) suggested matches or waiting for people to view me or whatever.

It didn't result in any more effective matches but at least I wasn't trying to second guess anything.

 

I've since pretty much dropped OLD - just doesn't really work for me.

[TunaInTheBrine]

Dating advice can be helpful, depending on the source and the person using it.

 

My biggest concern (and someone else said this earlier) is when people start following it too closely, lose spontaneity, and everyone starts following a 'code' or script in dating. How is this any different or better than those dating constructs packaged by Disney when we were kids? Everyone rips on those for informing us how to approach dating, but not as many rip on these books. Strangely, these books teach you to act more like a kid than an adult in dating, in some ways.

 

Moreover, I am concerned with the emphasis on power and status in these type of articles or books. Dating seems to be becoming more and more about these elements, and not the actual connection or relationship. It's a little scary.

 

IME, the best people to date are the ones who either have tons of experience and so feel they don't need to rely on said advice books/articles (you know them when you meet them), or the people who generally have a solid sense of who they are and so would never want to pick up a book like that anyway because it compromises your authenticity.

 

My two cents.

[Toodaloo]

hi toodles

 

Hi AM

 

I am actually sitting here eating popcorn for breakfast reading this...

 

Men that I am currently chatting to by the "rules"

 

Boxer

I messaged him first. He asked me out. We had several lovely dates and a great time together. I was smitten. He then flaked. Got back in touch again to apologise as it was mental heath issues. Been friends but he now wants more. He is into me big time. The flaking kinda killed it for me though...

 

Badger

Fun guy. He contacted me. After a while he was pushing so I sent a "ask me out or leave me alone" message. He asked me out. Flaked due to "bad news". Now he is back again. I haven't responded.

 

Scientist

He contacted me. He asked me out. He is pretty much a text pen pal and its getting annoying now.

 

Walker

I contacted him. He hinted so I invited him with me on a walk. He has been a bit in light contact. Mostly to organise our next date for which he asked and he has canceled other plans so he can see me sooner rather than later.

 

History Guy

He contacted me. He hasn't asked me out yet... Nothing really going on there.

 

At the moment the one who is the most "sound". The one who is the most consistent. The one who has put himself out the most for me is the Walker... The one I contacted first and I asked out first...

 

I am sure given a few weeks I will have mucked it up with all of the above but ho hum. Thats dating for you!

[Toodaloo]

I think that you can only be yourself and be friendly and chatty. Set up what you do and do not find acceptable, aka "boundaries", stick to it regardless of how good looking they are.

 

I really do not think that me saying hello to a man is me being pushy, overtly sexual or needy or anything else. It is after all just saying hello. Thats it. If I find they are bozo's I can walk away as I would do in real life. Its just hello. I do that every day with men, women, children and dogs... There is nothing in it then so I see no reason why there should be now.

 

If I don't know what to say or have nothing to say - I say nothing. If someone sends a message or text I will respond if appropriate if not I will not.

 

I don't know how to date. I do know how I would like to be treated and try to treat others the same. Unless they are idiots in which case I just don't care!

 

I read all of these books because I know jack about dating, having been out of it for years and I have no clue what I am doing. I have no clue what to look for to enable me to find the right person for me and I am fully aware that I have a tendency to go for the wrong sorts of men... or at least I have been for years and I want to avoid that. Posting here, reading threads, reading books... That is how I am learning. Its taught me a heck of a lot and I think I am getting better at this whole dating thing. The fact that I am enjoying my dates now and am not being crowed at, groped at etc seems to show that.

 

I know what I want. I am just trying to learn how to make better choices so I can get it.

[Shining One]

By the way, just curious, but what are some of the games YOU play to get a woman into bed?

 

 

Care to share?

I'll send you a PM later. I'd rather not derail the thread.

I went around this by viewing the profiles of all men with the stats I was looking for once a week. Usually that made them see me. I rarely emailed a man first and when I did, it didn't lead to a date even if they responded.

As pointed out earlier, this is confirmation bias. You have two significantly different sample sizes so you can't really compare the results. It's quite likely that if you had reversed your approach and messaged many men and only viewed a few, you would have received similar results.

[OpenBook]

I haven't read The Rules, so I can only comment on the ones listed in this thread. Several of them are counterintuitive to forming a relationship with me. Thus, you're correct. When a women exhibits those specific behaviors, I say "screw it" and move on.

 

One of The Rules is "Don't talk to men about The Rules." It will get you nowhere. Just smile, and do them. (The Rules, that is.)

[BluEyeL]

I'll send you a PM later. I'd rather not derail the thread.As pointed out earlier, this is confirmation bias. You have two significantly different sample sizes so you can't really compare the results. It's quite likely that if you had reversed your approach and messaged many men and only viewed a few, you would have received similar results.

Possibly, I mean I'm sure the other technique works as well. For my personal interests though , given that I wasn't feeling very strong and had a lot of anxiety going on, avoiding piling on more anxiety was important to keep going. Of course, if my Method didn't work, I would have changed it but I felt this one made my life easier, it was easier to do.

 

While you admit you're doing some things to trick women into sex without exclusivity or commitment, I did whatever I could to make sure I'm not getting myself into that situation with a man. If he did the work in the beginning (and I mean for a few months not dates) , I could make sure he's interested in me as a person and wants a relationship , and not just into getting me into bed because I'm offering it after all. So yes, I did follow a lot of those rules but not because I was following that particular book but because I found what worked for me reaching my goals. When I have a goal I do whatever it takes to reach it. Usually it takes discipline . When dating I made sure I always put myself first and didn't let emotion cloud my judgement until the man proved himself. If that's playing games, I'd play another round .

[Toodaloo]

Blu - you will be glad to hear that book should be arriving today... So guess what I will be doing tonight!

[BluEyeL]

Blu - you will be glad to hear that book should be arriving today... So guess what I will be doing tonight!

 

Have fun! I even talked to Jess McCann on the phone once, she's also a dating coach.

[Toodaloo]

Have fun! I even talked to Jess McCann on the phone once, she's also a dating coach.

 

I was pleased to get the delivery email as I wasn't expecting it until tomorrow... I have a second date tomorrow so am hoping it will help get my head in the right place as I have my knickers in bit of a twist about it all.

[BluEyeL]

I was pleased to get the delivery email as I wasn't expecting it until tomorrow... I have a second date tomorrow so am hoping it will help get my head in the right place as I have my knickers in bit of a twist about it all.

 

Good luck tomorrow!

 

Regarding having the knickers in a twist, I'm very familiar with the feeling (as many of us are). The book will not help too much with that. The book is pretty light and helped me with practical behavioral advice while on dates. I especially found useful the "KISS" principle (keep it short and simple--meaning shut up at times-because I am a talker and tend to bore people if not careful) and the body language mirroring.

 

Living in the present moment can help with detachment from the outcome, but it's incredibly difficult to do, at least for me. Takes lots and lots of work and practice. I read a million self help books, especially by the late Wayne Dyer, those helped with the anxiety.

 

 

After 1 year and 4 months of relationship, I still occasionally find twisted panties on me

[Toodaloo]

LOL well I have kinda been doing that! Last night I realised I was waffling on via text of all things so I just stopped texting!

 

I want to say hey how are you today. In fact a phone call would be better (perhaps I should do that to confirm tomorrow instead) then I could hear his voice. But I haven't actually got anything useful to say so I am not texting!!!

 

He hasn't either but thats fine. I am good with that. At least I do not have to fluster about it all!!!

[BronzeAgeJaeger217]

I was pleased to get the delivery email as I wasn't expecting it until tomorrow... I have a second date tomorrow so am hoping it will help get my head in the right place as I have my knickers in bit of a twist about it all.

 

Jess McCann, I think I have heard of her, I heard she encourages women to initiate conversations with men who they are attracted to

[BluEyeL]

Jess McCann, I think I have heard of her, I heard she encourages women to initiate conversations with men who they are attracted to

Yeah she does, it's true. Initiating conversation doesn't mean that you necessarily have romantic intentions but gives you a chance to find a connection and allows the man to notice you. Then he will have to ask you out.

 

I did take that advice in real life. I didn't do it online. But the rules don't even allow you to look at a man , which is over the top. And the timetables for texting are senseless. Plus other stuff.