"The Rules"

[newmoon]

WOW.

 

So a simple hello is considered to be trashy?

 

I am no man. I am all woman. However I do understand that it can be difficult to approach and sometimes it takes a little nudge for guys to notice you.

 

If 1 or 2 texts a day and a phone call every few days - sometimes initiated by me sometimes by him is trashy??? Desperate??? Needy??? I am hardly begging for dates or hounding men. If the response is lack lustre or not entirely positive its on to the next and forgotten about.

 

Why the hell should I expect a perfect stranger to pay for me? That is trashy behaviour.

 

i love how people take a statement, completely read what they want into it, and then extend it way beyond the original intent. now, get real... is saying hello ever trashy? we all know that's not what i meant, or what 'the rules' are saying. but can you show interest in a guy without calling him first? absolutely. can you hold off paying for him for 3 dates? yes. can you not be sexual for 3 or more dates? yes. you can show interest with enthusiasm, compliments, follow up, etc. lots of ways. if you need to propel a guy in your direction in any way it won't work out in the end. it might short-term and the guy is going to be flattered, but you're devaluing yourself and doing yourself a disservice in the relationship by changing the dynamic. then you go cry to your girlfriends when he isn't being man enough for you. but we all have a different m.o. and if not following any of 'the rules' works for you, so be it.

[Toodaloo]

y what I've noticed is that some men like to feel like they are the ones deciding whom they take out and when. It's not that having a woman chatting them up is trashy or unsexy... but in a way it's depriving them of the pleasure / thrills of asking a girl they like out.

 

Asking a guy out first - as a girl - may make some guys too confident that you're into them. Some men feel a bit more comfortable when there's some uncertainty... some mystery.

 

Basically, by not making the first step and giving them plenty of space I get to weed out flakes. Exciting flakes are still flakes... Extremely disappointing flakes... So yeah... patience when dating always pays out. Always. PAtience and being true to yourself.

 

Well Candie this guy was dropping so many hints it would have sunk the Bismark they were that subtle. He wanted to come with me. So I just said if he wanted to he was welcome, directions to get there and a time that I was planning to get there by, gave him my number just in case. He had to drive over an hour and a half to get there and back home again. He could only have just stopped his car when he text to say what a fantastic date he had and thank you and confirm that he had cancelled his plans for a certain day that I said would have been better for me and could I still meet him on that day.

 

Today I sent a silly joke that would make him laugh. It did. Already he has looked where we are going. He is deciding which has the better menu etc. So I am letting him wear the trousers. I am letting him lead the way but equally I think it is important that I let him know for sure that if he asks I am not going to turn him down. That I am interested.

[PrettyEmily77]

sorry, but those are really harsh labels to put on people. Really harsh. And everyone has self esteem issues to some extent - just look at the overcompetitive and perfection loving society we live in. Hell, buy yourself any fashion magazine and tell you you don't feel a tiny bit bad when looking at those models with perfect bodies and flawless skin casually wearing H&M and ZAra... not even starting the debate about models for designer clothes.

 

IMO, a RS is a sort of a talk between 2 people, it's like 2 radios searching for that common frequency to communicate together. As long as both of them are open to finetuning themselves to find that common wavelength, the RS has good chances of blossoming.

 

And both of the partners can have anxiety traits, not just women ! Men need to be handled with care and attention too, and it's like they are the devil, the enemy, in those books. OR like a human being who needs to be manipulated into doing something they absolutely don't want to do... like taming them. hell, that's not a RS - not a RS that I want to have. If a man is not into RS, I will make my best to find out and weed him out, not do my best to make him to date / marry me

 

That's what I really hate in those books. They don't treat men like equal partners, they treat men like an enemy to vanquish or get power over. Sure, some men only want to f*ck. Or only want children. There are some women like that too. Some will lie about it. Lie and cheat. Not all of them. And it's up to everyone of us to get to know our partner and understand the nature of his interest in us, before delivering. Usually time, patience and a good pair of eyes open very wide do the trick. Othertimes, we get played, no matter how much we try to do better... it's life, it sucks at times.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm all about seduction. I love mystery and seduction and it's damn hard to keep those alive - when dating someone or in a RS. There are not enough books about that! That's what's really keeping a RS alive. Fascination. Desire... Lust ! Gimme some of that and I'm buying it !

 

I agree, Candie . Having been on the receiving end of someone who displays that kind of stuff to extreme levels however, I can confirm that no dating book woyld have helped him be a better partner.

 

Yes, we all have self-esteem issues but mostly, common sense, good friends abd family who build you up and a little bit of confidence can carry you through most things; much more than any book will do, IMO.

[Toodaloo]

I agree, Candie . Having been on the receiving end of someone who displays that kind of stuff to extreme levels however, I can confirm that no dating book woyld have helped him be a better partner.

 

Yes, we all have self-esteem issues but mostly, common sense, good friends abd family who build you up and a little bit of confidence can carry you through most things; much more than any book will do, IMO.

 

But some books do help.

 

I read;

 

Getting over an addiction to a person.

While all it did was make me realise I wasn't addicted but I had other issues it did help me to recognise addictive behaviour in others and avoid it.

 

Get the Guy - Mathew Hussey

Really liked this as he really improved my personal confidence. he teaches you the real differences between being worthwhile and not and also he made being single perfectly OK. I am actually enjoying it. He seems to spend more time making you feel good and working on your confidence then giving you a few tips here and there. It seems to work!

 

What men love Bitches

Didn't like this so much but it did have some good points on building a better life for yourself, how to go about that and how to deal with rejection etc.

 

Natalie Lue.

I love her books. I really can't praise this woman enough. She just makes sense. I read some of her stuff even if its not relevant to me just because it helps me to recognise unhealthy behaviour etc in others. The woman is a star.

[jen1447]

First rule of any kind of dating (not just online) - don't follow any rules.

[SammySammy]

Some men know these rules too and make it extremely difficult, if not impossible, for a woman to be with him and follow The Rules. Prefer a woman who can think for herself. Who is real and true to herself.

[Miss Peach]

But some books do help.

 

Natalie Lue.

I love her books. I really can't praise this woman enough. She just makes sense. I read some of her stuff even if its not relevant to me just because it helps me to recognise unhealthy behaviour etc in others. The woman is a star.

 

I also love Natalie Lue.

 

Some others I liked were:

 

1. The Real Rules by Barbara D'Angeles - Basically this book tears apart "The Rules' and just promotes honest communication.

 

2. Getting to I Do by Dr. Pay Allen - She's a MFT therapist who did a lot of research on gender roles. She doesn't insist on women being in the feminine role but she has a lot of techniques on how to negotiate it in a relationship since each gender has both qualities.

 

3. Why Men Marry Bitches - Mostly about boundaries

 

4. Evan Marc Katz - Don't agree with everything but I do think he makes a lot of good points on his blog.

[BluEyeL]

I read a lot of books on dating and relationships and I still have a couple left to read The Rules , I read it, it has some good points that I adopted, and some points that are ridiculous and I cannot endorse.

 

The book that was the one that helped me most in the early stages of dating was "You lost him at hello". By Jess McCann

Edited October 12, 2015 by BluEyeL

[Toodaloo]

The book that was the one that helped me most in the early stages of dating was "You lost him at hello". By Jess McCann

 

That one arrives on Wednesday

 

Too late for me to read for my second date so I will just have to wing it!

[thecrucible]

Some of The Rules which make sense to me:

 

Fill Up Your Time before the Date

- I agree with this because you have to have something to talk about, right?

 

No More than Casual Kissing on the First Date

- Self-explanatory. Unless you're looking for something casual, better to have the slow burn.

 

Don't Rush into Sex

 

Don't Expect a Man to Change or Try to Change Him

- Yes! But that doesn't mean hold someone to low standards, just that you can't fundamentally change a person.

 

Don’t Open Up Too Fast

- That's good too. I've been taken for a fool far too often because of opening up too quickly.

 

Don't Date a Married Man

 

Love Only Those Who Love You

 

So these are all good. I think like all books you take the good and adapt it to your experience. I think if some of the rules were taken literally, it wouldn't be good. For instance, there's a rule about not accepting Saturday dates after Wednesday. I don't agree with that however I do agree with not accepting last minute dates (i.e. asking me on the proposed day of the date) when I don't know a person.

[thecrucible]

For everyone to critique, here are the rules from the book's sequel The Rules For Online Dating:

Don't answer men's ads or email them first

Create a good screen name

Post a smiling photo

Wait 24 hours to respond

Don't answer on weekends or holidays

Write light and breezy Emails

Never Email a man a second time if he neglected to respond to your Email

For the first three months, don't initiate an Email, only respond

Block yourself from Instant Messages

Don't volunteer your phone number first

If he doesn't ask you out within four Emails, Delete/Next

Screen out Mr. Wrong

Don't waste your time on time-wasters

Don't force the relationship from Email to phone

Put safety first

Don't ad-interrogate on dates

 

Some make sense to me and some really don't. For instance, why wait 24 hours to respond if you happen to be at your computer when you get the message? And why wait 3 months to start initiating communication. Also, I see why it says not to message men first but I am going to start doing this soon as it seems silly to just sit and wait for the right guy to turn up in my inbox.

[BluEyeL]

Agree with the points made by the crucible . There are rules that are simply common sense and others not. For example I don't agree with the timetable for responding to texts, wait 24 h every time and 4 h in I don't know what situations. I always answered texts when I was able to and most of the time that meant instantly. Also don't date a man more than 18 months or two years. Valid for girls looking to get married asap for fertility reasons but not in all situations.

[katiegrl]

For everyone to critique, here are the rules from the book's sequel The Rules For Online Dating:

 

Don't answer men's ads or email them first

Create a good screen name

Post a smiling photo

Wait 24 hours to respond

Don't answer on weekends or holidays

Write light and breezy Emails

Never Email a man a second time if he neglected to respond to your Email

For the first three months, don't initiate an Email, only respond

Block yourself from Instant Messages

Don't volunteer your phone number first

If he doesn't ask you out within four Emails, Delete/Next

Screen out Mr. Wrong

Don't waste your time on time-wasters

Don't force the relationship from Email to phone

Put safety first

Don't ad-interrogate on dates

 

Some make sense to me and some really don't. For instance, why wait 24 hours to respond if you happen to be at your computer when you get the message? And why wait 3 months to start initiating communication. Also, I see why it says not to message men first but I am going to start doing this soon as it seems silly to just sit and wait for the right guy to turn up in my inbox.

 

 

I think the point the author was trying to make is if a guy isn't emailing you first, he's probably not interested.

 

 

He might respond to your email, but there have been posts on this board from women saying whenever they emailed first, nothing ever became of it.

 

 

If I were single, I think it might be fun to try out ALL these rules just to see if they "worked."

 

 

So many threads on here from women lamenting how some guy just sort of disappeared after sending a few texts.

 

 

I dunno, maybe these guys felt the women weren't enough of a challenge or something.

 

 

In turn so many guys on here starting threads pining over some chick who isn't chasing them.... going crazy wondering how she feels, does she like me, etc.

 

 

Gotta wonder what's that about, and if there really IS something to these rules after all... cuz it just seems (from reading this board) that the women guys seem to fall for (and pine over) and start threads about are the women who don't chase, don't text first, don't initiate dates and keep them "wondering" and a little on edge.

Edited October 12, 2015 by katiegrl

[Shining One]

Don't answer men's ads or email them first

This seems like a good way to miss out on opportunities. What if you happen to see his profile first? If a woman is appealing to me, it doesn't matter to me if she messages me first. I'm not going to think: "Oh, she's amazing and hot, but she messaged me first, so she's not amazing and hot any more."

Wait 24 hours to respond

Don't answer on weekends or holidays

I'm not sure how I feel about these. On one hand, I've used similar mind games on women with some level of success, so that's a reason for going this route. On the other hand, when communicating with multiple women, the one maintaining better communication with me has an edge.

For the first three months, don't initiate an Email, only respond

As above, the one who communicates better with me has an advantage.

He might respond to your email, but there have been posts on this board from women saying whenever they emailed first, nothing ever became of it.

I ask out ten women. Ten women reject me. Conclusion: Men asking out women doesn't work.

Unless these women have huge sample sizes, this sounds like confirmation bias.

[joseb]

I think the point the author was trying to make is if a guy isn't emailing you first, he's probably not interested.

 

He might respond to your email, but there have been posts on this board from women saying whenever they emailed first, nothing ever became of it.

 

.

 

But this is assuming he has seen your profile. That's a really big assumption!

There are thousands of thousands of profiles on any dating site.

 

Sure he may not respond. But if he doesn't, he just isn't interested. I can't imagine a guy who would not respond to someone he liked simply because she message first. That would just be stupid.

[katiegrl]

But this is assuming he has seen your profile. That's a really big assumption!

There are thousands of thousands of profiles on any dating site.

 

Good point!

 

 

Don't know how that works TBH.

 

 

I always thought that men flocked to new female members checking out their profiles.... but you could be right.

 

 

Is there a way to tell if a guy has checked out a woman's profile? Can she tell?

[Vintage79]

No. 1 and 2 -- playing devil's advocate, what if "being yourself" and "following your gut" means being needy, clingy, insecure, obsessive, blowing up a guy's phone 59 times a day, constantly seeking reassurance ....as we so often read about on this boards?

 

IMO, The Rules and other such books are geared more toward *those* type of women, so they don't scare away every guy they meet and date with their neediness and insecurity!

 

The overly-needy types (NOT you Toodaloo) need to learn boundaries. The Rules is extreme, but it's a good start. For "them."

 

In time, they will learn what *works* and find the right balance.

 

Toodles, clearly you do not need that book or other books so toss them all in the trash!

 

But again, many women who are needy, clingy, have no boundaries and chase guys who have no interest in them ... DO need them which is why The Rules and other such books were written IMO.

 

Hmmm - well if being yourself is desperate, needy, and clingy, the guy deserves to know that - besides, you won't be able to keep up the rouse forever, in which case you get dumped at the 1-2 month mark, as opposed to never getting the second date. Desperate, needy, and clingy people need to figure out how to solve their problems, as opposed to tricking people into believing that they're something that they're not...

[katiegrl]

Guys, check out Xiomn's thread currently running complaining about how the chick he's dating doesn't initiate, doesn't text first, etc. all those things The Rules advise to do.

 

 

Apparently he's quite confused, wondering how she feels, while apparently quite intrigued otherwise he would not have started the thread seeking answers.

 

 

Interesting....

[joseb]

Wow, I had not heard of this "rules" book before.

If people are reading this, I think it explains a lot about why there are so many problems dating today, misunderstandings and strange posts on hear that make no sense.

[Shining One]

Is there a way to tell if a guy has checked out a woman's profile? Can she tell?

This depends on the site and options a member has chosen. Match will tell you who has viewed your profile, unless the person viewing your profile has chosen to browse anonymously.

[Shining One]

Guys, check out Xiomn's thread currently running complaining about how the chick he's dating doesn't initiate, doesn't text first, etc. all those things The Rules advise to do.

 

 

Apparently he's quite confused, wondering how she feels, while apparently quite intrigued otherwise he would not have started the thread seeking answers.

 

 

Interesting....

Shall I start a thread about the women I've stopped dating for doing things The Rules advise to do?

[katiegrl]

Shall I start a thread about the women I've stopped dating for doing things The Rules advise to do?

 

I dunno, why you asking me? If you're confused about her behavior and want answers, then sure, why not.

 

 

I just thought it was interesting that he started the thread within a few hours of this thread being created..

 

 

My advice to him was to check out this thread or better yet, pick up a copy of The Rules himself in attempt to understand why some chicks behave as they do.

 

 

It's all a freakin game! Men play games to attract the opposite sex, women play games to attract the opposite.

 

 

It's called dating and thank GOD I am out of that whole scene!

[katiegrl]

Below was the last part of my post to Xiomn in his thread:

 

 

>>"By the way, re her behavior, is all your confusion and wondering increasing your interest level or is it turning you off?

 

I am guessing her elusive behavior intrigues you and increases your interest, otherwise you would not be wasting time/energy creating this thread seeking answers.

 

 

You would have just said "screw it," not called her anymore and moved on to the next. <<

 

 

Shining One, I take it when you encounter a woman who follows The Rules, you say "screw it" and move on?

 

 

IMO, THAT was the correct response!

 

 

Games are for children.... but unfortunately still work for many people, so they continue to be played.

[Shining One]

I dunno, why you asking me?

You seem interested in the effectiveness of the rules and you're pointing out examples where they seem to be working. I was simply offering counter points.

It's all a freakin game! Men play games to attract the opposite sex, women play games to attract the opposite.

No argument here. We overcomplicate something that should be so simple.

[Shining One]

Shining One, I take it when you encounter a woman who follows The Rules, you say "screw it" and move on?

 

 

IMO, THAT was the correct response!

 

Games are for children.... but unfortunately still work for many people, so they continue to be played.

I haven't read The Rules, so I can only comment on the ones listed in this thread. Several of them are counterintuitive to forming a relationship with me. Thus, you're correct. When a women exhibits those specific behaviors, I say "screw it" and move on.