Important conversation with MM soon

[sandylee1]

I told him again over the phone the same things and also that i m 26 and not planning to spend my next years waiting for him to raise his kids as i swallow my wishes and be alone without kids and waiting for him to come for an hour.

 

26.....The world is your oyster. At that age I was partying and dating - footloose and fancy free.

 

Get out there and have fun without the hassle and baggage of a MM with kids. You don't need part of your joint income in your marriage going to child and spousal support.

[HappyAgain2014]

No, not continue as OW. I think that s why he was pissed about my expectations, because well, u can t have an OW with expectations and i made it clear that i m not the OW anymore.

I told him to stop any contact but i see he doesn t get it. It s like my words mean nothing.

I told him that i m out and he can do whatever he wants to do and if he ll be available and want the same things i do, he knows how to find me.

After i said this he called me and asked "why ru talking stupid things?" Lol

I told him again over the phone the same things and also that i m 26 and not planning to spend my next years waiting for him to raise his kids as i swallow my wishes and be alone without kids and waiting for him to come for an hour to see me.

I don t feel good at all but i am a little relieved. No more unfinished business i guess...

 

Your words mean nothing because he believes you don't mean what you say. You ended it then broke NC. I'm not trying to be harsh, but you've taught him not to take you at your word. Boundaries don't pertain to him.

 

Every time you talk to him, it reinforces this feeling for him. So, he promises things he can't deliver and you say things then don't enforce them.

 

It's the typical vicious cycle of affairs.

 

Only one way to stop it. Screw this concept of NC. Say it's over and tell him not to contact you or you'll be forced to notify his wife. Then follow through. No big discussions or drama.

[unluckycharms]

Your words mean nothing because he believes you don't mean what you say. You ended it then broke NC. I'm not trying to be harsh, but you've taught him not to take you at your word. Boundaries don't pertain to him.

 

Every time you talk to him, it reinforces this feeling for him. So, he promises things he can't deliver and you say things then don't enforce them.

 

It's the typical vicious cycle of affairs.

 

Only one way to stop it. Screw this concept of NC. Say it's over and tell him not to contact you or you'll be forced to notify his wife. Then follow through. No big discussions or drama.

 

So agree with all of this. Right now, he thinks that no matter what you say, you're going to start talking to him again because that's been the pattern up to this point. You need to either stick to your word that you're going to stop talking to him, or, if you don't trust yourself to, follow the advice in the last paragraph. And I'd be honest with yourself as to whether you think you can truly maintain NC based on word alone.

 

My ex and I both "ended it" so many times only to start talking within the next few days that neither of us believed the other anymore, so I went the latter route and haven't heard a peep from him when he'd normally be blowing up my phone. This will be painful at first but it is absolutely the best thing for you.

[Mount]

Not to be harsh, but MM did not string you along, YOU did it to yourself, you choose to do that.

 

No matter how detailed descriptive paragraph you've laid out about what he said, what he texted, you can choose not to listen or not to absorb at all.

 

And do not even mention NC anymore, it seems there has NC at all. And still I do not understand, does this MM fulfill every promise small or big before to fulfill your every need or demand, if not, why you think he will divorce and be with you? Where is the logic or sense? Think logically.

 

U got it right. Thanks for ur post.

I understand what u said and u re right. It s not that easy and mang things are involved. But then, why the **** string me along until now being confused and bla bla just to tell me now another version of the story(similar to others about this subject)

And keep in mind that while we had this conv he still mentioned 3 times that he k ows what he has to do and that he will do it(divorce).

Edited August 18, 2015 by Mount

[Sweetgirlie]

Not to be harsh, but MM did not string you along, YOU did it to yourself, you choose to do that.

 

No matter how detailed descriptive paragraph you've laid out about what he said, what he texted, you can choose not to listen or not to absorb at all.

 

And do not even mention NC anymore, it seems there has NC at all. And still I do not understand, does this MM fulfill every promise small or big before to fulfill your every need or demand, if not, why you think he will divorce and be with you? Where is the logic or sense? Think logically.

 

I did the same thing-i did things to myself to cause pain and drama because I didn't want it to end. I wasn't listening to my MM even when he was being 'honest'. I chose not to listen to his words. Men aren't that complicated..they usually are very literal and mean what they say. It's us women who get emotional and hear what we want to hear.

[Dela]

Thank u all for your encouragement and support.

A new day for me...

I read his messages last night. They said"i hope u arrived ok. I m here if u wanna text me". I replied after few hours and i said "i have nothing to say to u"

Didn t hear from him again...

I m not feeling very well.. Today would have been a month if i didn t break NC... So i m practically back to square one.

I can t let him hurt me anymore. I allowed it. I allowed to listen to every side of the story for this long(i will do something, i won t do something" for over and over and over again...

I read the whole conversation we had. He once mentioned that "we are possible, just not right now. This is not a good time for expectations between us" yeah, right...

I am angry on myself but more i m angry on him. Why he didn t think that he is hurting me so much by telling me all kinds of things?? Didn t i suffer enough this year? Didn t i lose a child this year? Wasn t this enough? I see no amount of consideration right now. Everytime he feels emotional has another story, everytime he s being rational he hits me with stuff like that.

And u won t believe that, when we had that conv, he asked me out for a coffee AFTER he said all those things!!! Wtf is wrong with u???

Damn, i am so angry

[Satu]

It's you that keeps jumping into the meat grinder.

 

You can't blame him for everything.

 

Yes, he hurt you, but a lot of the time you're hurting yourself.

 

You can't change him, and that means that you have to change yourself.

[jenkins95]

Thank u all for your encouragement and support.

A new day for me...

I read his messages last night. They said"i hope u arrived ok. I m here if u wanna text me". I replied after few hours and i said "i have nothing to say to u"

Didn t hear from him again...

I m not feeling very well.. Today would have been a month if i didn t break NC... So i m practically back to square one.

I can t let him hurt me anymore. I allowed it. I allowed to listen to every side of the story for this long(i will do something, i won t do something" for over and over and over again...

I read the whole conversation we had. He once mentioned that "we are possible, just not right now. This is not a good time for expectations between us" yeah, right...

I am angry on myself but more i m angry on him. Why he didn t think that he is hurting me so much by telling me all kinds of things?? Didn t i suffer enough this year? Didn t i lose a child this year? Wasn t this enough? I see no amount of consideration right now. Everytime he feels emotional has another story, everytime he s being rational he hits me with stuff like that.

And u won t believe that, when we had that conv, he asked me out for a coffee AFTER he said all those things!!! Wtf is wrong with u???

Damn, i am so angry

 

Dela! Big hug ((***Dela***))

 

It's so horrible how this has dragged on. NC, no NC, hopes then hopes dashed, suggestions made then withdrawn etc. Poor you - I know it is a nightmare and that you are emotionally so frail. It's torture. We are here for you.

 

I am so happy that you are being strong and that you see that it is over. You seem really determined to keep NC permanent now. When you feel desperate to contact him, contact us instead.

 

I have learned an awful lot from your situation because I think I am very much of the same mindset as your MM. I have really fallen for the OW, but am horrified of what I am doing to my family and of the thought of leaving. Just like your MM, I find myself to-ing and fro-ing all the time in my thoughts. Often, each day can bring a different attitude or frame of mind. I may think differently about the best possible future, then the following day, my thoughts may change again. I guess this is the symptom of a troubled mind and heart. But where it becomes even more damaging is where you project all this uncertainty onto others. Some days seeming positive, others seeming negative, ideas and thoughts changing, swinging one way then the other.

 

I have learned so much on LS, but your post more than any has shown me how to behave going forward. Soon my OW and I will enter NC (I will post about this on another thread). I am terrified about this because I know I will fall hard. I WILL fall into a depression, I WILL completely breakdown, I WILL continue to be confused and lost and miss her like crazy. But I am determined that I will maintain NC. All these issues that I must go through - on my own, in IC (I desperately need it) and with my family will in no way involve OW. She needs freedom to recover and I need space to sort my issues out. We need to try to forget our thing. Letting her go is itself an act of love, and it should be the same for your MM.

 

The only way I would ever consider contacting her again is if, many months down the line, my W and I have decided to separate, we establish new routines for our kids, and I get my mind into something resembling a normal human being again. In that case, if i still had feelings for the OW (and I will try desperately not to over these next months), I would consider approaching her again, but bracing myself for the possibility that she has moved on. So much damage has already been done, that this is the only reasonable way of moving forward I think.

 

Good luck Dela, we are here for you.

[Dela]

Dela! Big hug ((***Dela***))

 

It's so horrible how this has dragged on. NC, no NC, hopes then hopes dashed, suggestions made then withdrawn etc. Poor you - I know it is a nightmare and that you are emotionally so frail. It's torture. We are here for you.

 

I am so happy that you are being strong and that you see that it is over. You seem really determined to keep NC permanent now. When you feel desperate to contact him, contact us instead.

 

I have learned an awful lot from your situation because I think I am very much of the same mindset as your MM. I have really fallen for the OW, but am horrified of what I am doing to my family and of the thought of leaving. Just like your MM, I find myself to-ing and fro-ing all the time in my thoughts. Often, each day can bring a different attitude or frame of mind. I may think differently about the best possible future, then the following day, my thoughts may change again. I guess this is the symptom of a troubled mind and heart. But where it becomes even more damaging is where you project all this uncertainty onto others. Some days seeming positive, others seeming negative, ideas and thoughts changing, swinging one way then the other.

 

I have learned so much on LS, but your post more than any has shown me how to behave going forward. Soon my OW and I will enter NC (I will post about this on another thread). I am terrified about this because I know I will fall hard. I WILL fall into a depression, I WILL completely breakdown, I WILL continue to be confused and lost and miss her like crazy. But I am determined that I will maintain NC. All these issues that I must go through - on my own, in IC (I desperately need it) and with my family will in no way involve OW. She needs freedom to recover and I need space to sort my issues out. We need to try to forget our thing. Letting her go is itself an act of love, and it should be the same for your MM.

 

The only way I would ever consider contacting her again is if, many months down the line, my W and I have decided to separate, we establish new routines for our kids, and I get my mind into something resembling a normal human being again. In that case, if i still had feelings for the OW (and I will try desperately not to over these next months), I would consider approaching her again, but bracing myself for the possibility that she has moved on. So much damage has already been done, that this is the only reasonable way of moving forward I think.

 

Good luck Dela, we are here for you.

 

 

thanks so much. u are a lot like my MM... i recognise the confusion and everyday thinking/wanting/saying something different. Can be very damaging for the relationship with the OW. Has put me in a terrible state of mind. i lost my trust in him by hearing everytime a different version. i thought i don t matter. i thought he s playing with me.

 

u made a good choice letting her go. it s gonna be hard as hell for her.

 

i m trying to hang in here. maybe if he will be available someday (not 10 years lol) he knows where to find me... until then i m trying to put back my life in order. i wish i would have kept NC last month. things ended on good terms back then. now i m angry and frustrated and have 1000 doubts as :did he ever love me? did he ever mean what he said to me? did he ever want to change something about us? why this last conversation was like this? ETC

I don t know what to think anymore...

[Got it]

It's you that keeps jumping into the meat grinder.

 

You can't blame him for everything.

 

Yes, he hurt you, but a lot of the time you're hurting yourself.

 

You can't change him, and that means that you have to change yourself.

 

Dela, I agree with Satu. You keep going looking for the clown and then complain when the clown hits you. Stop opening the door and you won't get hit.

[jenkins95]

thanks so much. u are a lot like my MM... i recognise the confusion and everyday thinking/wanting/saying something different. Can be very damaging for the relationship with the OW. Has put me in a terrible state of mind. i lost my trust in him by hearing everytime a different version. i thought i don t matter. i thought he s playing with me.

 

u made a good choice letting her go. it s gonna be hard as hell for her.

 

i m trying to hang in here. maybe if he will be available someday (not 10 years lol) he knows where to find me... until then i m trying to put back my life in order. i wish i would have kept NC last month. things ended on good terms back then. now i m angry and frustrated and have 1000 doubts as :did he ever love me? did he ever mean what he said to me? did he ever want to change something about us? why this last conversation was like this? ETC

I don t know what to think anymore...

 

Thanks Dela!

 

Hang in there - you are amazing! I understand your anger and frustration. Your honesty and sharing your story with us has helped me so much. I could have behaved exactly like your MM when it became clear that a big decision had to be made in my A. In fact, I did start off like that, and quickly saw the horrible affect it had on my OW and me. But your experiences have shown me that it cannot continue that way, stuck in limbo. It is a complete horror like that.

 

Of all the questions that you are left with, he did and does love you very much. I am certain. Remember, I am just like him, reading your posts can be like looking in the mirror, so I know! I really understand and know him through your posts. His behaviours, the things he says, etc may change as he struggles with his demons and tries to find the best way to proceed, but I guarantee that his love for you is a constant. That's what makes all this so difficult for everyone.

 

I think that like me, he never really considered that this could go so far that he would actually even consider leaving his wife for one minute. He probably didn't think far into the future much at all, and that things with you may just fade or end naturally. But they didn't. You guys fell for each other big time, and suddenly he did have to consider that big question about his wife. But it put him way out of his comfort zone - he can't reconcile himself with the mess it would cause. He also can't bear the thought of being without you. He is me!

 

You, I, my OW, your MM - we all thought we could handle this early on, and it made us feel wonderful. But we were playing with fire and we got burned sadly. Now we are facing the horrible consequences.

 

But we are here for each other. This forum is amazing. People really bare their soul, genuinely feel for and help others, and genuine bonds are forged with others who share or sympathise with your pain. Please keep posting Dela - I think I will really need your support when I start NC. I'm here for you too.

 

Look after YOU!

[Dela]

Thanks Dela!

 

Hang in there - you are amazing! I understand your anger and frustration. Your honesty and sharing your story with us has helped me so much. I could have behaved exactly like your MM when it became clear that a big decision had to be made in my A. In fact, I did start off like that, and quickly saw the horrible affect it had on my OW and me. But your experiences have shown me that it cannot continue that way, stuck in limbo. It is a complete horror like that.

 

Of all the questions that you are left with, he did and does love you very much. I am certain. Remember, I am just like him, reading your posts can be like looking in the mirror, so I know! I really understand and know him through your posts. His behaviours, the things he says, etc may change as he struggles with his demons and tries to find the best way to proceed, but I guarantee that his love for you is a constant. That's what makes all this so difficult for everyone.

 

I think that like me, he never really considered that this could go so far that he would actually even consider leaving his wife for one minute. He probably didn't think far into the future much at all, and that things with you may just fade or end naturally. But they didn't. You guys fell for each other big time, and suddenly he did have to consider that big question about his wife. But it put him way out of his comfort zone - he can't reconcile himself with the mess it would cause. He also can't bear the thought of being without you. He is me!

 

You, I, my OW, your MM - we all thought we could handle this early on, and it made us feel wonderful. But we were playing with fire and we got burned sadly. Now we are facing the horrible consequences.

 

But we are here for each other. This forum is amazing. People really bare their soul, genuinely feel for and help others, and genuine bonds are forged with others who share or sympathise with your pain. Please keep posting Dela - I think I will really need your support when I start NC. I'm here for you too.

 

Look after YOU!

 

 

thanks u are a great person, i m glad my experience has helped you decide what to do. i will be here for u as well.

 

and, since u are like my MM, i wanna ask u something. Me leaving him alone would do any good? would not make him think i don t care or love him anymore? because the last conv i was very upset and i just cut him off the last days. NC NC NC!!! So keeping my distance is the best thing i can do?

I know and i told him few weeks ago that it would be an option fo me to back off and let him do his thing. But the last conv has left me in a BLEAH, WTF state of mind. This confusion u guys have is like multiple personality disorder. LOL. u are nuts )

i liked when i ended it ast month because it ended in good terms and that s it. now it s a different story.

[MJJean]

Hey, Dela.

 

I have a few things I wanted to say to you in the interest of helping you, but I realize that my phrasing and bias could be construed as being mean. So, I want to make very clear that I am not trying to hurt you. I am trying to open your eyes.

 

First, let me say that I am the adult child of an extramarital affair. My mother was 23, in college, physically disabled, and she decided to keep me.

 

Was I a secret? No. My bio-father knew, his family and friends did not. However, my mom, her family, and all of her friends spent lots of time with me and loved me dearly.

 

Did my bio-father ever divorce his wife? No. In fact, it is my understanding they had a few more children together.

 

Did I ever have those "where's dad?" moments? Nope. I grew up knowing I had a father, but that he was married and chose to stay with his wife and my half-siblings. I honestly don't remember a time that I didn't know that. And, frankly, I never cared. Why would I? I had a life full of family and friends and I never spared much thought for the man that helped make me other than mild curiosity. I'm 40 now, married, kids, dogs, house in the burbs, and I still don't care.

 

Did I have a part time dad? Nope. I had a full time dad.

 

My mom walked away from bio dad soon after I was born. She raised me with the help of a female friend for the first 4 years and then she met my Dad. Obviously not my bio father, but my dad. The guy who raised me. The guy who sat up nights when I had pneumonia, who scraped me off the pavement and patched up my skinned knees when I learned to ride a bike, who whopped my butt when I needed it, who took me to buy my first formal dress and let me take his precious Trans Am (custom chrome and paint) to Homecoming.

 

 

The reality is that you could have chosen to keep the baby, dump the MM for real, gone on with your life with your child, and perhaps found a decent man who would love you both. You didn't want that and I understand, but the truth is there were more options than having a "secret" child with a part time MM father.

 

Personally, I think part of the decision to abort is that you knew your MM wouldn't be there for YOU if you had the baby. The baby would have meant the end of the affair because deep down you know he isn't leaving his wife and you know he would drop YOU faster than fire if you decided to remain pregnant and keep the baby. You didn't want to lose him and you still don't because you're still in contact and hoping he will leave his wife. (I realize you went NC within the last couple days, but it's too early to know you're serious about it.)

 

As far as his regret and remorse, it's a combination of lies and truth. He regrets he helped create a life that was ended before birth, but that's the extent of it. He's relieved, if not downright happy, that the baby is dead because it living would have ruined his life had his wife and kids ever found out.

 

He's clearly manipulating you. Here you are thinking he cares when what he is doing is damage control. By keeping contact, he is able to keep tabs. By talking to you and letting you vent your hurt and anger and grief, he's keeping you from exploding and telling his wife. And, hey, if by keeping you in touch with him and on good terms means he can weasel his way back into your panties...well, all good for him.

 

Here we get into my second bias. I married at 19 because I got pregnant despite being on the Pill. I didn't even want kids, but I just couldn't bring myself to abort or give up for adoption, so I married the father and had the baby. Then, well after I realized I LOATHED my husband, I got pregnant again while using condoms with him. I had multiple affairs during the marriage. I even wished my 2nd could have been someone else's so I'd have to leave. But, when she was conceived I was between AP's and knew my H was the only possibility.

 

It was truly a miserable marriage and we shared no intimacy other than occasional "just to shut him up" sex. No talking about our day, or the news, or religion, or politics, or personal beliefs. No cuddling, kissing, hand holding. Hell, I didn't even let him come in to pee if I were in the shower because I liked the separateness and distance.

 

5 years into the marriage and a year after the 2nd baby was born, I met the man I love. We met in October. In December, he and I had our first date. In January we had sex for the first time and I told my H we were done. I told him my AP and I were having an affair, that we were in love, and I that wanted a divorce. H moved to the basement of our townhouse because of financial reasons and then he moved out in February.

 

My former AP and now DH have been together ever since. Married 12 years, total of 15 as a couple.

 

I had many AP's that I liked as people and that I cared for as friends, but I didn't leave for them. I did, however, leave when I actually loved someone. And that's the thing. Love requires PROOF. Love is a VERB. It's what you DO. I loved him, so I DID something about it. I didn't spend months talking about what I might do...someday...maybe. I didn't use the kids as an excuse.

 

You need to own your choices and I don't really see you doing that.

 

You chose to have an affair with a married man. You chose to have unprotected sex with him knowing that a pregnancy could result. You chose to abort the baby rather than raise it on your own or rock your MM's boat. You chose NC and then chose to break NC. You chose this entire mess and unless you go hardcore, totally blocked, NC you are choosing to continue on with it.

 

And, as an aside, you know that he's lying when he says he doesn't want another baby with his wife, right? He knows that sex makes babies. He's admitted that he and his wife are having more sex and that they've discussed another child. Do the math. If he didn't want another child, he wouldn't be screwing his wife.

[jenkins95]

thanks u are a great person, i m glad my experience has helped you decide what to do. i will be here for u as well.

 

and, since u are like my MM, i wanna ask u something. Me leaving him alone would do any good? would not make him think i don t care or love him anymore? because the last conv i was very upset and i just cut him off the last days. NC NC NC!!! So keeping my distance is the best thing i can do?

I know and i told him few weeks ago that it would be an option fo me to back off and let him do his thing. But the last conv has left me in a BLEAH, WTF state of mind. This confusion u guys have is like multiple personality disorder. LOL. u are nuts )

i liked when i ended it ast month because it ended in good terms and that s it. now it s a different story.

 

Hi Dela, thank you for your kind words!

 

Well, if your final conversations had been pleasant before restarting NC, he would have known that you love him and are hurt, but that you were trying to part on good terms. As your final conversation was angry and tearful, he knows that you love him, but that you are hurt because of what has happened. Either way, he knows you love him and are hurting - and I think you know that it is the same for him.

 

Next week, I will have a final meeting with my OW. I really hope we can share a coffee, have the difficult conversations, then have half an hour or so of light pleasant conversation, a hug and wish each other all the best.

 

This is how I hope it goes, but I accept that it may instead end in tears and some anger. Either way, both of us will know that there is genuine love and hurt there on both sides and that we both made mistakes. But the more pleasant it is, the easier I think we will both find it to be able to get on with the rest of our lives and recover.

 

I see that your final conversations are eating at you, so why not organise a final meeting where you try to do what I plan above and end it pleasantly? If a physical meeting is dangerous (for many different reasons), why not write him a message and invite him to write a final reply? In that message you could state that NC is definitely the way forward, but that you don't want your final conversation to be so angry and unpleasant and that you acknowledge both your mistakes and your love, but that it is an impossible situation that you both need to move on from and that you wish him the best for the future. Maybe this would give you a better foundation to move on?

 

Whatever you decide, we are here for you and wish you nothing but the best. We will get there Dela!

[Dela]

Hi Dela, thank you for your kind words!

 

Well, if your final conversations had been pleasant before restarting NC, he would have known that you love him and are hurt, but that you were trying to part on good terms. As your final conversation was angry and tearful, he knows that you love him, but that you are hurt because of what has happened. Either way, he knows you love him and are hurting - and I think you know that it is the same for him.

 

Next week, I will have a final meeting with my OW. I really hope we can share a coffee, have the difficult conversations, then have half an hour or so of light pleasant conversation, a hug and wish each other all the best.

 

This is how I hope it goes, but I accept that it may instead end in tears and some anger. Either way, both of us will know that there is genuine love and hurt there on both sides and that we both made mistakes. But the more pleasant it is, the easier I think we will both find it to be able to get on with the rest of our lives and recover.

 

I see that your final conversations are eating at you, so why not organise a final meeting where you try to do what I plan above and end it pleasantly? If a physical meeting is dangerous (for many different reasons), why not write him a message and invite him to write a final reply? In that message you could state that NC is definitely the way forward, but that you don't want your final conversation to be so angry and unpleasant and that you acknowledge both your mistakes and your love, but that it is an impossible situation that you both need to move on from and that you wish him the best for the future. Maybe this would give you a better foundation to move on?

 

Whatever you decide, we are here for you and wish you nothing but the best. We will get there Dela!

 

 

Thanks. No, i m not texting him anything. Why should i do all the things? If he REALLY REALLY REALLY wants to talk to me, he knows where to find me. I ended it nice last time, i won t do it again. He chose this way. He could write me that long message and that s it. I don t have to reply. But i don t see anything from him. He expects me to do all the work. He chose it this way so be it... Of course i m hurt and angry from out last conv and he knows.

When i think of him i read something from our conversation :"u are a life that i don t wanna give up on. I don t have "life" expectations with u, not more than what is now or what it was"!!!!!!!! So really there s nothing left for me to say...

[Dela]

Hey, Dela.

 

I have a few things I wanted to say to you in the interest of helping you, but I realize that my phrasing and bias could be construed as being mean. So, I want to make very clear that I am not trying to hurt you. I am trying to open your eyes.

 

First, let me say that I am the adult child of an extramarital affair. My mother was 23, in college, physically disabled, and she decided to keep me.

 

Was I a secret? No. My bio-father knew, his family and friends did not. However, my mom, her family, and all of her friends spent lots of time with me and loved me dearly.

 

Did my bio-father ever divorce his wife? No. In fact, it is my understanding they had a few more children together.

 

Did I ever have those "where's dad?" moments? Nope. I grew up knowing I had a father, but that he was married and chose to stay with his wife and my half-siblings. I honestly don't remember a time that I didn't know that. And, frankly, I never cared. Why would I? I had a life full of family and friends and I never spared much thought for the man that helped make me other than mild curiosity. I'm 40 now, married, kids, dogs, house in the burbs, and I still don't care.

 

Did I have a part time dad? Nope. I had a full time dad.

 

My mom walked away from bio dad soon after I was born. She raised me with the help of a female friend for the first 4 years and then she met my Dad. Obviously not my bio father, but my dad. The guy who raised me. The guy who sat up nights when I had pneumonia, who scraped me off the pavement and patched up my skinned knees when I learned to ride a bike, who whopped my butt when I needed it, who took me to buy my first formal dress and let me take his precious Trans Am (custom chrome and paint) to Homecoming.

 

 

The reality is that you could have chosen to keep the baby, dump the MM for real, gone on with your life with your child, and perhaps found a decent man who would love you both. You didn't want that and I understand, but the truth is there were more options than having a "secret" child with a part time MM father.

 

Personally, I think part of the decision to abort is that you knew your MM wouldn't be there for YOU if you had the baby. The baby would have meant the end of the affair because deep down you know he isn't leaving his wife and you know he would drop YOU faster than fire if you decided to remain pregnant and keep the baby. You didn't want to lose him and you still don't because you're still in contact and hoping he will leave his wife. (I realize you went NC within the last couple days, but it's too early to know you're serious about it.)

 

As far as his regret and remorse, it's a combination of lies and truth. He regrets he helped create a life that was ended before birth, but that's the extent of it. He's relieved, if not downright happy, that the baby is dead because it living would have ruined his life had his wife and kids ever found out.

 

He's clearly manipulating you. Here you are thinking he cares when what he is doing is damage control. By keeping contact, he is able to keep tabs. By talking to you and letting you vent your hurt and anger and grief, he's keeping you from exploding and telling his wife. And, hey, if by keeping you in touch with him and on good terms means he can weasel his way back into your panties...well, all good for him.

 

Here we get into my second bias. I married at 19 because I got pregnant despite being on the Pill. I didn't even want kids, but I just couldn't bring myself to abort or give up for adoption, so I married the father and had the baby. Then, well after I realized I LOATHED my husband, I got pregnant again while using condoms with him. I had multiple affairs during the marriage. I even wished my 2nd could have been someone else's so I'd have to leave. But, when she was conceived I was between AP's and knew my H was the only possibility.

 

It was truly a miserable marriage and we shared no intimacy other than occasional "just to shut him up" sex. No talking about our day, or the news, or religion, or politics, or personal beliefs. No cuddling, kissing, hand holding. Hell, I didn't even let him come in to pee if I were in the shower because I liked the separateness and distance.

 

5 years into the marriage and a year after the 2nd baby was born, I met the man I love. We met in October. In December, he and I had our first date. In January we had sex for the first time and I told my H we were done. I told him my AP and I were having an affair, that we were in love, and I that wanted a divorce. H moved to the basement of our townhouse because of financial reasons and then he moved out in February.

 

My former AP and now DH have been together ever since. Married 12 years, total of 15 as a couple.

 

I had many AP's that I liked as people and that I cared for as friends, but I didn't leave for them. I did, however, leave when I actually loved someone. And that's the thing. Love requires PROOF. Love is a VERB. It's what you DO. I loved him, so I DID something about it. I didn't spend months talking about what I might do...someday...maybe. I didn't use the kids as an excuse.

 

You need to own your choices and I don't really see you doing that.

 

You chose to have an affair with a married man. You chose to have unprotected sex with him knowing that a pregnancy could result. You chose to abort the baby rather than raise it on your own or rock your MM's boat. You chose NC and then chose to break NC. You chose this entire mess and unless you go hardcore, totally blocked, NC you are choosing to continue on with it.

 

And, as an aside, you know that he's lying when he says he doesn't want another baby with his wife, right? He knows that sex makes babies. He's admitted that he and his wife are having more sex and that they've discussed another child. Do the math. If he didn't want another child, he wouldn't be screwing his wife.

 

 

Thanks so muc for your post. It made me cry

And u are not being mean, it s true what u said. I could have kept the baby, i know. I was scared, no one supported my decision. I grew up without a father also since i was 9 so i didn t want that for my child. I was scared and i regret now not keeping it. There s not a day that i don t think about it!!

 

As for MM, u are right too... If he wanted to be with me he would be here now!!

No ifs and buts, not hurt me and keep me as a mistress.

 

Thanks again for your post. It s so real and it has given me a lot to think about.

 

Hugs

[Satu]

Its really a pity that you invest so much mental and emotional energy into a person who has no intention of ever offering you anything other than *words.*

 

He gives you the *word* love, but no love to go with it.

 

A word is the representation of a thing, but a word can never be the thing it represents.

[whichwayisup]

Hey, Dela.

 

I have a few things I wanted to say to you in the interest of helping you, but I realize that my phrasing and bias could be construed as being mean. So, I want to make very clear that I am not trying to hurt you. I am trying to open your eyes.

 

First, let me say that I am the adult child of an extramarital affair. My mother was 23, in college, physically disabled, and she decided to keep me.

 

Was I a secret? No. My bio-father knew, his family and friends did not. However, my mom, her family, and all of her friends spent lots of time with me and loved me dearly.

 

Did my bio-father ever divorce his wife? No. In fact, it is my understanding they had a few more children together.

 

Did I ever have those "where's dad?" moments? Nope. I grew up knowing I had a father, but that he was married and chose to stay with his wife and my half-siblings. I honestly don't remember a time that I didn't know that. And, frankly, I never cared. Why would I? I had a life full of family and friends and I never spared much thought for the man that helped make me other than mild curiosity. I'm 40 now, married, kids, dogs, house in the burbs, and I still don't care.

 

Did I have a part time dad? Nope. I had a full time dad.

 

My mom walked away from bio dad soon after I was born. She raised me with the help of a female friend for the first 4 years and then she met my Dad. Obviously not my bio father, but my dad. The guy who raised me. The guy who sat up nights when I had pneumonia, who scraped me off the pavement and patched up my skinned knees when I learned to ride a bike, who whopped my butt when I needed it, who took me to buy my first formal dress and let me take his precious Trans Am (custom chrome and paint) to Homecoming.

 

 

The reality is that you could have chosen to keep the baby, dump the MM for real, gone on with your life with your child, and perhaps found a decent man who would love you both. You didn't want that and I understand, but the truth is there were more options than having a "secret" child with a part time MM father.

 

Personally, I think part of the decision to abort is that you knew your MM wouldn't be there for YOU if you had the baby. The baby would have meant the end of the affair because deep down you know he isn't leaving his wife and you know he would drop YOU faster than fire if you decided to remain pregnant and keep the baby. You didn't want to lose him and you still don't because you're still in contact and hoping he will leave his wife. (I realize you went NC within the last couple days, but it's too early to know you're serious about it.)

 

As far as his regret and remorse, it's a combination of lies and truth. He regrets he helped create a life that was ended before birth, but that's the extent of it. He's relieved, if not downright happy, that the baby is dead because it living would have ruined his life had his wife and kids ever found out.

 

He's clearly manipulating you. Here you are thinking he cares when what he is doing is damage control. By keeping contact, he is able to keep tabs. By talking to you and letting you vent your hurt and anger and grief, he's keeping you from exploding and telling his wife. And, hey, if by keeping you in touch with him and on good terms means he can weasel his way back into your panties...well, all good for him.

 

Here we get into my second bias. I married at 19 because I got pregnant despite being on the Pill. I didn't even want kids, but I just couldn't bring myself to abort or give up for adoption, so I married the father and had the baby. Then, well after I realized I LOATHED my husband, I got pregnant again while using condoms with him. I had multiple affairs during the marriage. I even wished my 2nd could have been someone else's so I'd have to leave. But, when she was conceived I was between AP's and knew my H was the only possibility.

 

It was truly a miserable marriage and we shared no intimacy other than occasional "just to shut him up" sex. No talking about our day, or the news, or religion, or politics, or personal beliefs. No cuddling, kissing, hand holding. Hell, I didn't even let him come in to pee if I were in the shower because I liked the separateness and distance.

 

5 years into the marriage and a year after the 2nd baby was born, I met the man I love. We met in October. In December, he and I had our first date. In January we had sex for the first time and I told my H we were done. I told him my AP and I were having an affair, that we were in love, and I that wanted a divorce. H moved to the basement of our townhouse because of financial reasons and then he moved out in February.

 

My former AP and now DH have been together ever since. Married 12 years, total of 15 as a couple.

 

I had many AP's that I liked as people and that I cared for as friends, but I didn't leave for them. I did, however, leave when I actually loved someone. And that's the thing. Love requires PROOF. Love is a VERB. It's what you DO. I loved him, so I DID something about it. I didn't spend months talking about what I might do...someday...maybe. I didn't use the kids as an excuse.

 

You need to own your choices and I don't really see you doing that.

 

You chose to have an affair with a married man. You chose to have unprotected sex with him knowing that a pregnancy could result. You chose to abort the baby rather than raise it on your own or rock your MM's boat. You chose NC and then chose to break NC. You chose this entire mess and unless you go hardcore, totally blocked, NC you are choosing to continue on with it.

 

And, as an aside, you know that he's lying when he says he doesn't want another baby with his wife, right? He knows that sex makes babies. He's admitted that he and his wife are having more sex and that they've discussed another child. Do the math. If he didn't want another child, he wouldn't be screwing his wife.

 

Very honest advice, heartfelt, genuine and helpful to Dela.

 

Dela, I hope you really take in what MJ has written you and really do some deep soul searching, try counseling to help you cut exMM/MM OUT of your life once and for all. Reality is, he is never leaving his wife and you deserve a man who will love and adore you, not make you cry and feel pain and confusion most of the time.

[Dela]

Thank you so much for your posts.

I feel kinda down today.. I kept reading thag conv over and over again...

Many "u don t understand, that s not what i meant" it s all playing in my head.

Day 3 of NC and i keep asking myself and i know it s a stupid question but "he knows he has hurt me and if I DIDN T UNDERSTAND WHAT HE WAS SAYING OR I GOT IT WRONG, Why isn t he explaining?? I mean, i did say "i have nothing to say to u" but if he has, go ahead and say it!! If u meant something else then by all means, share it with me. Don t just sit there like an idiot doing nothing.

 

I m sorry, i m having a tough day here:(

[lemondrop21]

Thank you so much for your posts.

I feel kinda down today.. I kept reading thag conv over and over again...

Many "u don t understand, that s not what i meant" it s all playing in my head.

Day 3 of NC and i keep asking myself and i know it s a stupid question but "he knows he has hurt me and if I DIDN T UNDERSTAND WHAT HE WAS SAYING OR I GOT IT WRONG, Why isn t he explaining?? I mean, i did say "i have nothing to say to u" but if he has, go ahead and say it!! If u meant something else then by all means, share it with me. Don t just sit there like an idiot doing nothing.

 

I m sorry, i m having a tough day here:(

 

Unfortunately, I think that by not saying or doing anything right now, he is "saying" all that he needs to say.

 

I'm wishing you peace and healing, Dela. Just focus on getting through the next week or so when your feelings will have settled ever so slightly. You are pretty much at rock bottom now I expect, and things WILL improve from here. You have a long hard road ahead of you but there will be life and love in your future. I promise.

[MJJean]

Thanks so muc for your post. It made me cry

And u are not being mean, it s true what u said. I could have kept the baby, i know. I was scared, no one supported my decision. I grew up without a father also since i was 9 so i didn t want that for my child. I was scared and i regret now not keeping it. There s not a day that i don t think about it!!

 

As for MM, u are right too... If he wanted to be with me he would be here now!!

No ifs and buts, not hurt me and keep me as a mistress.

 

Thanks again for your post. It s so real and it has given me a lot to think about.

 

Hugs

 

Keep telling yourself that if he cared, he'd be there. He's not. He's with his wife and kids. That's all the proof you need that he doesn't love you in any tangible way.

 

Think about what this affair has done to you. You've been emotionally hurt. You had an abortion and have to live with that decision. You'll never be the same. Your life will never be the same. You've been permanently damaged psychologically, emotionally, and spiritually. You will never love or trust the same way again. And thoughts of the baby that was and what could have been will always be with you.

 

Was he worth it? I'd say not.

 

If you're still grieving the baby, perhaps you should seek a women's group and/or counseling. There are secular and religious based support groups for women dealing with the aftermath of abortion. Maybe you should find one locally and join at least until you get past the worst of it.

 

The only one I know of off the top of my head is Rachel's Vineyard. It's a religious based organization started by a woman who had a hard time healing after her abortion and who was or converted to Catholicism. If that's not for you, just go Googling. I'm sure you could find a support group even if it's just online.

 

Its really a pity that you invest so much mental and emotional energy into a person who has no intention of ever offering you anything other than *words.*

 

He gives you the *word* love, but no love to go with it.

 

A word is the representation of a thing, but a word can never be the thing it represents.

 

Exactly! Words are just air unless there is action to back them up!

 

Thank you so much for your posts.

I feel kinda down today.. I kept reading thag conv over and over again...

Many "u don t understand, that s not what i meant" it s all playing in my head.

Day 3 of NC and i keep asking myself and i know it s a stupid question but "he knows he has hurt me and if I DIDN T UNDERSTAND WHAT HE WAS SAYING OR I GOT IT WRONG, Why isn t he explaining?? I mean, i did say "i have nothing to say to u" but if he has, go ahead and say it!! If u meant something else then by all means, share it with me. Don t just sit there like an idiot doing nothing.

 

I m sorry, i m having a tough day here:(

 

Remember when we all said he was manipulating you? Yeah. People who manipulate say things to elicit the desired response. The idea is that the person being manipulated be unaware that it's happening. From the outside, we can see it clearly. From the inside, where you are, it's not so obvious because he's good at it! The comments he makes are designed to make you think the way you are right now. "Maybe he.." "If I would have..." "Perhaps I misunderstood.." "Maybe I didn't do/say/whatever and that's why..."

 

STOP!

 

You know all you need to know. He's married and it looks like he's staying that way. Full stop. The end.

 

It gets better. It just takes time. And some effort on your part. Take care of you. Go out and live a life. Don't talk about him. Don't allow yourself to dwell on him. Every time you think of him, remind yourself that he is toxic and you deserve better. Then push him from your mind and distract yourself by thinking of something else. Eventually, you'll think of him less and less until he's a vague memory of a bad time in your life.

[whatatangledweb]

Thank you so much for your posts.

I feel kinda down today.. I kept reading thag conv over and over again...

Many "u don t understand, that s not what i meant" it s all playing in my head.

Day 3 of NC and i keep asking myself and i know it s a stupid question but "he knows he has hurt me and if I DIDN T UNDERSTAND WHAT HE WAS SAYING OR I GOT IT WRONG, Why isn t he explaining?? I mean, i did say "i have nothing to say to u" but if he has, go ahead and say it!! If u meant something else then by all means, share it with me. Don t just sit there like an idiot doing nothing.

 

I m sorry, i m having a tough day here:(

 

You can't just pick out certain parts and hold on to hope. You will use that to drive yourself nuts. Look at the entire conversation. It is clear there is no future for the two of you. You two have had several conversations. Unfortuately you will never have all the answers you need.I'm so sorry .

[elaine567]

Thank you so much for your posts.

I feel kinda down today.. I kept reading thag conv over and over again...

Many "u don t understand, that s not what i meant" it s all playing in my head.

Day 3 of NC and i keep asking myself and i know it s a stupid question but "he knows he has hurt me and if I DIDN T UNDERSTAND WHAT HE WAS SAYING OR I GOT IT WRONG, Why isn t he explaining?? I mean, i did say "i have nothing to say to u" but if he has, go ahead and say it!! If u meant something else then by all means, share it with me. Don t just sit there like an idiot doing nothing.

 

I m sorry, i m having a tough day here:(

 

When a relationship is in trouble, one person usually calls it quits, if the other is on a different page and doesn't want it to end, they fight, they plead, they promise, they do their utmost to keep it going. ON the other hand, if they agree it should end, they just let it go.

In your case, your MM is very aware of his limitations and so he accepts things for what they are.

YOU, being single wanted more than he could give, you find that unacceptable. He doesn't fight for you but he says "OK, but why is what we have not enough?"

YOU say it isn't, he goes, "Fine, it is what it is."

He is not bending over backwards to keep you, he is not making rash promises, he is not pleading or promising the earth, he is just letting things slide. He realises he cannot meet your needs, he is not prepared to leave his wife and kids for you, he is not prepared to say you have a future together, and so he has no alternative here but to let you keep walking away.

[Mount]

I don't understand, or, I am really totally lost now. Why you encourage him to continue talking, hasn't he "talked" enough...?

 

You two are not shooting a movie, so you don't need a script I suppose.

 

You are living a real life day by day, which is achieved by result from actions. Why you are enjoy those "talking", does it lead you to somewhere, does it make you gain anything?

 

 

 

Thank you so much for your posts.

I feel kinda down today.. I kept reading thag conv over and over again...

Many "u don t understand, that s not what i meant" it s all playing in my head.

Day 3 of NC and i keep asking myself and i know it s a stupid question but "he knows he has hurt me and if I DIDN T UNDERSTAND WHAT HE WAS SAYING OR I GOT IT WRONG, Why isn t he explaining?? I mean, i did say "i have nothing to say to u" but if he has, go ahead and say it!! If u meant something else then by all means, share it with me. Don t just sit there like an idiot doing nothing.

 

I m sorry, i m having a tough day here:(

[Dela]

When a relationship is in trouble, one person usually calls it quits, if the other is on a different page and doesn't want it to end, they fight, they plead, they promise, they do their utmost to keep it going. ON the other hand, if they agree it should end, they just let it go.

In your case, your MM is very aware of his limitations and so he accepts things for what they are.

YOU, being single wanted more than he could give, you find that unacceptable. He doesn't fight for you but he says "OK, but why is what we have not enough?"

YOU say it isn't, he goes, "Fine, it is what it is."

He is not bending over backwards to keep you, he is not making rash promises, he is not pleading or promising the earth, he is just letting things slide. He realises he cannot meet your needs, he is not prepared to leave his wife and kids for you, he is not prepared to say you have a future together, and so he has no alternative here but to let you keep walking away.

 

Thanks so much for all your posts, guys

Yes, this is what he does.. No lying, no promises, no "please don t leave me, i will get a D"... I think he s being fair here. Maybe i see this wrong because i m hurt. Maybe he s doing me a favour...

 

He sent me a message last night...

"I know u are hurt and i assure u i m no better either. I have no idea what to say after out last conversation, it won t change the things i said or the situation. I know that u just wanted to know if i m planning on doing something and i am. I don t know when and how but i am. I just thought that i don t want u to sit around and wait for that to happen. It isn t fair. U should never have to wait for anything in this life. I ve done enough damage. I want u to live your life and when the time comes and i will have a prospective/clear future i will look for you, i know where to find you."