Important conversation with MM soon

[privategal]

I feel strongly Dela that you are addicted to drama telling all of your friends about your married boyfriend...flowers instead of divorce papers, carrying on about an aborted baby over and over. Its drama and attention and his wife getting pregnant would steal your spotlight so you will tell her to get the drama and attention to an all time high.

Women are adopting babies to raise alone, you didn't need him to tell you yes or no to abort.

I dont believe the affair will end without police involved somehow. People who feed on attention will even take the negative kind.

Continuing the EA allows you to keep going over and over and over the baby, the victim role, his personal life with his family. You seem happy stuck in the toxicity...

[Dela]

well, i know it s malicious and messed up, yeah. it s how i feel NOW.

no one remembers i said i am angry and furious NOW? i don t believe this feeling will last forever. and i never had to tell him anything about it, we never had the conversation"please don t tell anything to my wife" because he knows i wouldn t say anything. this is my anger speking and i m aware of that. no need to talk to me as i m a crazy person.

and by talking to my feiends about him or what happened to the baby it s not drama and seeking attention. they know about it and they r supporting me.

i believe i am entitled to talk to my friends about my life. where s the drama in it? am i supposed to not share how i feel just because they baby is dead and the A is over? well, then by all means, why r we all here then? not to share feelings and stories and support each other? this means we are all making a drama and seek attention? i believe not.

[Red123]

well, i know it s malicious and messed up, yeah. it s how i feel NOW.

no one remembers i said i am angry and furious NOW? i don t believe this feeling will last forever. and i never had to tell him anything about it, we never had the conversation"please don t tell anything to my wife" because he knows i wouldn t say anything. this is my anger speking and i m aware of that. no need to talk to me as i m a crazy person.

and by talking to my feiends about him or what happened to the baby it s not drama and seeking attention. they know about it and they r supporting me.

i believe i am entitled to talk to my friends about my life. where s the drama in it? am i supposed to not share how i feel just because they baby is dead and the A is over? well, then by all means, why r we all here then? not to share feelings and stories and support each other? this means we are all making a drama and seek attention? i believe not.

 

I think we all react differently when we are angry than when we are calm. However, I believe you are getting the reaction you are because your reaction does appear extreme. I believe I read that your A was only a few months, yes you got pregnant but that is still a very short period of time for such strong emotion. If his wife doesn't know he has engaged in an affair then why would it be such a shock that she would have more children with her husband? The fact that they are talking more kids should give you an indication that he is not really looking for an exit. If he was really planning to leave his wife and conducting himself in that manner then I doubt more children would be on the table. I agree with the other posters who stated you are young and will find someone so much better. Have you thought about what would actually happen if you do get him? After everything you have seen him do in such a short time could you ever really trust that he would be able to be faithful and good to you? Take care.

[GreySkyMorning]

the only thing in the world that would make me blow up his world is if i ever find out he s having another child.

i m sorry, but that time i will. "do not mess with a hurt woman"

he will then have 3 children to see 50% of the time (th reason he says he s not getting D).

 

What exactly do you think would happen if you told her?

 

I have an idea it would go something like this: he'd manage to portray you as some crazy person claiming to have been pregnant with his child but conveniently getting an abortion, meaning there's no proof it was ever his (if he doesn't convince her that the whole relationship was just a fantasy in your mind), he begs to stay with his pregnant wife and children, she takes him back, and they carry on with their family life.

[Got it]

Dela, first I just wanted to give you some big hugs ((((((((((((((Dela))))))))))))

 

I know you are going through a lot and on an emotional roller coaster. My best advice, just sit with your feelings. I know what it feels like when that tsunami of pain engulfs you that all you feel you can do is lash out to level the playing field, to curl into a fetal position and just cry, to just do something.

 

When you are feeling the need to lash out, sit with it and wait.

 

My best advice is to focus on you, focus on your feelings, and start working through them. You need to take your power back and today is as good a time as ever.

 

It's a process, and I think you know that when you reach out you get hurt in some manner, but you get something back that keeps you connecting. Only you will know when it is enough, when you are done.

 

In the meantime we are there for you. Start to work on being still with your emotions and keep peeling them back to see what they expose. Do "do" anything. Just be still.

[sandylee1]

Thank u so much. I just realized this is EA now... Not seeing eachother and no sex it s EA(i guess).

 

 

The only thing that is bothering me is him keep saying that he would have left his wife if i kept it... And i ask him: why can t u do it now? There s no pressure and u can make the decision because u want to, not because u have to because of the baby...

He looks at all this baby situation like an exit. This was his exit from his M. He told me that many times. It s as i ve seem here something called exit A, in this case was exit BABY and A. So if u put this this way, he won t leave his wife for me but he would leave his wife for another baby(and me because the baby comes with me). That s pretty ****ed up i know. That s what we ve been talking again these days. I m trying to understand the logic here....

 

The flowers were probably his way of letting you know he remembered your birthday and that he cares or at least he wants you to believe he cares.

 

He loves the feeling you give him, because it's great to be loved and if a younger attractive woman gives a man the ego boost he needs, it's like he still has it in him. You love him (he knows this) and he gets or he got the best of you.

 

When reality hits, you couldn't give him that undivided attention if you had a little baby and were shattered with sleepless nights. The escape from reality he was getting, would be over. Then he'd have a wife and a girlfriend with kids. That's not what he was looking for.

 

The thing is that he also knows you could blow his world apart right now. If his wife knew everything, he could find himself kicked out of the house and if that happened, as often does in these situations, there's no guarantee he'd come to you.

 

You can't understand the logic, because there is no logic to what he says. My view from what you've said, is that he doesn't or didn't want to leave his marriage, but he wanted to appear supportive of you having the baby to avoid hurting you, making you angry or looking callous. He had to present himself as a man that would support his child.

 

He knew that if he gave you any indication that you having the baby, would mean the two of you would be together , you would have DEFINETLY had the baby. So he made it clear to you (and was probably praying that you wouldn't go ahead with it) , that you having the baby would be as a single parent.

 

Think about it this way, even a single guy would not necessarily commit to you and be over the moon about a baby after 2 months of being in a R with you. Men just don't commit as women do, so imagine how much more scary that situation is for a MM.

 

You'll go NC when you're ready, but for your own sanity, at least try and reduce the contact and wean yourself off.

[Dela]

Hello everyone. I have been away for a while(busy, visiting family away etc)

I have some updates.

 

As u remember, I was starting to talk again with the MM. I am trying to keep it cool, I am not replying to his texts so fast, minding my own business.

We even had funny chats, making fun of each other and stuff like that. No emotional talks!!! He always contacts me first.

He has been talking about old issues (that he wats to leave and find the best way to be in his kids life as much as possible). He asked me many questions about us.

 

I simply acted cool and told him "look, the situation is like this: what do u want from me? What would u need me to do in a certain situation? What do u want from yourself? What do u want from us? How do we do it?"

He said that he had thought of what I asked and we established we will have a conversation about everything next week. I wanna point all the important issues/questions that i can possibly can.

 

Now, for all of u who had this big big talk about everything, which are the smart questions I should ask? How should this conversation go?

i need examples of smart questions!

 

Thank u:)

[Mascara]

i need examples of smart questions!

 

"Have you filed for divorce?"

[Dela]

"Have you filed for divorce?"

 

 

I already know that. It s not that kind of conversation.

I wanna know how sure he is on what he s saying and also if he planned to D i wanna know when, how, if I should be around or not when this happen, how is he planning to do it and be in his kids life as much as possible etc.

I also wanna know if he D, does he want to remarry someday? Does he want more kids? These things are important to me and deal breakers.

 

Thanks for your post

[elaine567]

I already know that. It s not that kind of conversation.

I wanna know how sure he is on what he s saying and also if he planned to D i wanna know when, how, if I should be around or not when this happen, how is he planning to do it and be in his kids life as much as possible etc.

I also wanna know if he D, does he want to remarry someday? Does he want more kids? These things are important to me and deal breakers.

 

Thanks for your post

 

He has just told you that he and his wife are trying for another baby, do you really think D is going to be on the cards, anytime soon?????

He may be being "funny" and friendly to keep you sweet, but what on earth makes you think he is going to divorce his wife here?

[Dela]

He has just told you that he and his wife are trying for another baby, do you really think D is going to be on the cards, anytime soon?????

He may be being "funny" and friendly to keep you sweet, but what on earth makes you think he is going to divorce his wife here?

 

They are not trying to have another baby. He just told me what his W suggested they have another child.

And why on earth would he want to "keep me sweet?" He s not getting anything from me now and we are not back together.

Thanks for your post. But my post actually was about smart questions to ask when we have the conversation.

[Poppy47]

Don't have the conversation ... you will be back with him if you do.

 

He's keeping you sweet to hook you back.

 

Poppy.

[Dela]

Don't have the conversation ... you will be back with him if you do.

 

He's keeping you sweet to hook you back.

 

Poppy.

 

 

Thanks Poppy.

But I need to have this conversation, I need to know what plans he has and what he has to say so I can figure it out if there s a chance for things to happen or not. That s why I asked for smart questions. I m sure u all had that talk with the MM and I m curious what u asked, even if things never changed and he DIDN t do what he said. I m not looking to have this conv in order to go back to the A, I just want to know how to handle the conv and what to expect and look for red flags.

[elaine567]

Thanks Poppy.

But I need to have this conversation, I need to know what plans he has and what he has to say so I can figure it out if there s a chance for things to happen or not. That s why I asked for smart questions. I m sure u all had that talk with the MM and I m curious what u asked, even if things never changed and he DIDN t do what he said. I m not looking to have this conv in order to go back to the A, I just want to know how to handle the conv and what to expect and look for red flags.

 

So what makes this conversation any more special than any other conversation you have had with him?

 

Yes, you are not in the A at the moment, but he wants you back, otherwise he would have stuck to the NC and he wouldn't be discussing how to get out of his marriage with YOU, would he?

 

Fact of the matter is, MMs tend to lie, they tend to say what works best for them.

So ask all the questions you like, but you are not ever guaranteed a truthful answer here, unless you hook him up to a lie detector.

 

He can tell you he is going to leave his wife and kids, he is going to file for divorce, but until he actually does something, or she finds out about the cheating and throws him out, it is all just talk.

He can tell you to wait around for him, he can tell you it would be best for you to lay low for a while, or he can say he is going to announce his affair to the world and he will marry asap, once he is free, but what he tells you and what he really thinks may be miles apart.

It is called future faking and many MM are experts.

 

Men who are truly in love with the OW, tend to not just talk about stuff, they simply go ahead and do it.

They divorce - they remarry or set up a home with the OW - they make sensible arrangements for their kids - they rearrange their businesses - they sort out any property and assets, and they carry on with their lives.

 

It is so easy to just talk -

"I am going to run for the Presidency sometime soon..."

[Sassy Girl]

Thanks Poppy.

But I need to have this conversation, I need to know what plans he has and what he has to say so I can figure it out if there s a chance for things to happen or not. That s why I asked for smart questions. I m sure u all had that talk with the MM and I m curious what u asked, even if things never changed and he DIDN t do what he said. I m not looking to have this conv in order to go back to the A, I just want to know how to handle the conv and what to expect and look for red flags.

 

No, you don't need to have this conversations because everything will be peppered with lies.

 

People here actually have your back you know. You're so young. Move on before this ruins you.

 

So what should you expect? Lies and future faking

 

What are the red flags? His mouth will be moving.

 

This won't give you any peace- it will just waste more of your life that you'll never get back.

[Dela]

So what makes this conversation any more special than any other conversation you have had with him?

 

Yes, you are not in the A at the moment, but he wants you back, otherwise he would have stuck to the NC and he wouldn't be discussing how to get out of his marriage with YOU, would he?

 

Fact of the matter is, MMs tend to lie, they tend to say what works best for them.

So ask all the questions you like, but you are not ever guaranteed a truthful answer here, unless you hook him up to a lie detector.

 

He can tell you he is going to leave his wife and kids, he is going to file for divorce, but until he actually does something, or she finds out about the cheating and throws him out, it is all just talk.

He can tell you to wait around for him, he can tell you it would be best for you to lay low for a while, or he can say he is going to announce his affair to the world and he will marry asap, once he is free, but what he tells you and what he really thinks may be miles apart.

It is called future faking and many MM are experts.

 

Men who are truly in love with the OW, tend to not just talk about stuff, they simply go ahead and do it.

They divorce - they remarry or set up a home with the OW - they make sensible arrangements for their kids - they rearrange their businesses - they sort out any property and assets, and they carry on with their lives.

 

It is so easy to just talk -

"I am going to run for the Presidency sometime soon..."

 

 

Thanks Elaine

 

I want to establish if there is a chance or not. I agree he might lie, but he hasn't t so far. He hasn t told me "oh please stay with me, I will get a D" he could have said that already since we talk everyday. I m not defending him and saying he s not a liar, but so far I know he hasn t lied to me and I know that he cares about me.

He actually asked me a lot of questions about us, if I think that what we have could last, what is important to me in a relationship etc. he talked about getting a close place to his kids if he D to be able to spend as much time as possible with them and asked me what I think about it.

I see he has a lot of questions and he s not just saying things to lure me back in.

I think he could have skipped all the talkings and tell me to go back because he will D. But he didn t.

 

I want to be clear here that I want to have this conversation for 2 reasons

1. To see what plans he has/when/how and see if I could be ok with them

For ex. If he will file for D, he wants to stay single for a while? Will we be able to have a normal R? How long he wants to wait between leaving home and actually filing for D?

2. To end it for good if things can never change.

[Dela]

Ok I don t wanna be rude here, but unless u want to answer to what I actually asked and try to do just that and be supportive, try not to reply at all.

I made it clear that I want to have this conv and I JUST NEED ADVISE ON HOW TO HANDLE IT. I know u look after me and I appreciate it, but I just need advise on what I posted.

[Darren Steez]

Ok I don t wanna be rude here, but unless u want to answer to what I actually asked and try to do just that and be supportive, try not to reply at all.

I made it clear that I want to have this conv and I JUST NEED ADVISE ON HOW TO HANDLE IT. I know u look after me and I appreciate it, but I just need advise on what I posted.

How to handle it.

 

When he talks, listen.

 

Process what he says.

 

Take into account he's cheating on his wife.

 

Act cool, smile or laugh when he tells a joke. Haha or snarf should be appropriate.

 

When you've processed what he's had to say, formulate a series of answers. Then reply.

 

There you go. Sorted.

[Dela]

How to handle it.

 

When he talks, listen.

 

Process what he says.

 

Take into account he's cheating on his wife.

 

Act cool, smile or laugh when he tells a joke. Haha or snarf should be appropriate.

 

When you've processed what he's had to say, formulate a series of answers. Then reply.

 

There you go. Sorted.

 

 

Thank you

[Hope Shimmers]

Ok I don t wanna be rude here, but unless u want to answer to what I actually asked and try to do just that and be supportive, try not to reply at all.

I made it clear that I want to have this conv and I JUST NEED ADVISE ON HOW TO HANDLE IT. I know u look after me and I appreciate it, but I just need advise on what I posted.

 

Jeez, Dela. Weren't you doing NC? Weren't you the NC proponent there for awhile?

 

And now you want to have a conversation with him and you are seriously going to believe anything that comes out of his mouth as gospel in terms of your relationship? He's MARRIED. What the hell else is there to say!???

 

I can't give you advice on what to ask him, because whatever he says will just be fantasy and lies, so what does it matter? Words are cheap, actions are what matter.

[Gloria_Smellons]

He has been talking about old issues (that he wats to leave and find the best way to be in his kids life as much as possible). He asked me many questions about us.

 

I simply acted cool and told him "look, the situation is like this: what do u want from me? What would u need me to do in a certain situation? What do u want from yourself? What do u want from us? How do we do it?"

He said that he had thought of what I asked and we established we will have a conversation about everything next week. I wanna point all the important issues/questions that i can possibly can.

 

Now, for all of u who had this big big talk about everything, which are the smart questions I should ask? How should this conversation go?

i need examples of smart questions!

 

Thank u:)

 

For the record, I think the fact he wants this conversation at all is a red flag, but since you seem determined to go ahead with it my advice is thus.

 

Say as little as possible. You've already asked him the important questions, so let him answer.

 

Try not to talk about feelings, stick to facts. There is no point getting caught up in misty eyed fantasies about what the future will hold and how wonderful it could be.

 

Focus on what HE needs to do, this isn't about you, it's about him and how he's going to proceed.

 

Then just, digest it. Don't make any decisions, don't agree to anything, just take it all in.

 

Given what was already said thought, please prepare for the worst. I myself wouldn't be surprised if he says he'll get the divorce ball rolling but then can't because his wife is 'unexpectedly' pregnant.

[lemondrop21]

I'm going to give this man the benefit of the doubt that he's not just trying to draw you in with lies (even though he may very well be). I'm going to assume that he really is considering leaving but is confused and wishy-washy.

 

 

Questions that come up for me are:

 

 

1. Is he in individual counseling and marriage counseling (I think individual is just as important at this stage if he really is going to leave, that s*it storm that he'll get is incredible)? If not, is he willing to go to individual counseling, so that both of you know he's making decisions with a clear head?

 

 

2. Is he at the stage where he feels he has done everything he can to make his marriage work, but has reached the conclusion that it can't? Because if not, he may resent you in the future.

 

3. Is he leaving "for you?" Honestly, if he had never met you, would he be staying in his marriage? Maybe you can still accept him if he's leaving "for you" but it seems like in this case, he has not taken the time to examine his own issues and his role in the decline of the marriage, and that he may exhibit the same behaviors with you in your future marriage.

 

Good luck to you.

[Satu]

This is some of the conversation we had when i broke NC few days ago.

I m not gonna post all of it because it s very long, just the things he said that stuck with me. I asked him to talk to me about what s on his mind

 

There are things u aleady know. i have doubts, i can t find any confort, nowhere, i have nothing to put back, i might never have again.

 

i have no drawer for u ( this drawer thing is something he often says that he does when he can t deal with things- puts them in an imaginary one and leave it there), it s all out in the open, i can t stop thinking about it and there is no relief. my choice regarding us might be a wrong one. i didn t just start having doubts, i always had. i only hope i will not regret it.

 

me: what hurts the most is that u never even tried. i don t think u tried

 

I wasn t ready to try. i m still not ready. u have made hard choices in your life, i don t know how to do that yet. i also had to make hard choices, but not about my family. it s like a barrier. it s frightening to know that is possible to live the biggest lie of your life and not have the means to clarify what s with u, at least for the moment (he was talking about his life at home)

 

he then asked what i know about his feelings for me. i said that i know he loves me, but maybe not enough to do something about it.

 

i want u to know that i wasn t with u to fill a void. i ve been thinking about this and i know my feelings don t come from any void but from what u are.

u know that tank ( from the book The five love languages) it s not just one. with u it was always full. the other one is empty and i carry it with me but u were not a source to fill a void. we ve built something else. maybe i didn t fall in love with u the same way u did, but i ended up loving u

 

if u were to call me, i would come to see u without thinking twice. but still without a concretely prospect.

 

 

i know that we are doing things we don t want to do, that go againgst some natural desires easily accomplished (i didn t get this easy part??? easy???)

 

i said : no, u re doing this, i just comply...

 

As i said, the conversation was long. he said he didn t think it would be so hard without me.

 

but still... he s not ready yet.

 

Thoughts?

 

thank u

 

 

If he really did love you he would just disappear from your life and block you.

 

It doesn't matter what you ask him, because his answer will be a lie.

[Dela]

Thanks a lot. I know the situation isn t ideal. I just want to have all the facts/information before i make a 100% decision.

I haven t been very constant in my NC idea when i started NC, si for sure there are some unfinished business that i need to put in order to be able to walk away for good. I m sure u know how it feels.

I will try to talk as little as possible. This conversation was not his idea 100%. He said something and then i told him thise things that i posted in the thread and we didn t have much time to talk about everything and we were like"well we can talk about everything next week when we have more time" i didn t want to push any conversation since i have no many things to say except what he already knows. I m more curious to see what is there to be said from his side.

Of course i will process everything and i will try to remember all so i can share here and see what everyone thinks.

 

Thanks a lot for your advise

[Dela]

I'm going to give this man the benefit of the doubt that he's not just trying to draw you in with lies (even though he may very well be). I'm going to assume that he really is considering leaving but is confused and wishy-washy.

 

 

Questions that come up for me are:

 

 

1. Is he in individual counseling and marriage counseling (I think individual is just as important at this stage if he really is going to leave, that s*it storm that he'll get is incredible)? If not, is he willing to go to individual counseling, so that both of you know he's making decisions with a clear head?

 

 

2. Is he at the stage where he feels he has done everything he can to make his marriage work, but has reached the conclusion that it can't? Because if not, he may resent you in the future.

 

3. Is he leaving "for you?" Honestly, if he had never met you, would he be staying in his marriage? Maybe you can still accept him if he's leaving "for you" but it seems like in this case, he has not taken the time to examine his own issues and his role in the decline of the marriage, and that he may exhibit the same behaviors with you in your future marriage.

 

Good luck to you.

 

Thanks for ur post.

1. He s not in IC. I suggested he go, but he doesn t want to. He says he can deal with this by himself.

He was MC few years ago but they quit since they couldn t get along there

2. I asked if he s sure there s nothing more to do for his M. He said that even if he tried harder, things would maybe be ok for a while but not for the long run

3.he said ne never thought very seriously about getting a D before he met me...

That s why i need to have this conv because i want to make sure he leaves for the right reasons and not because of me.

His words always are "im not sure i can live all my life like this"

So if he s 100% sure that he doesn t want to be with his W anymore then that s ok. I told him that no one can convince him to leave and i m not trying that. That until he doesn t wake up someday and say "ok, i m ready to do this" it will never happen