Dating midlife men: so much negativity

[Popsicle]

what man wants a grumpy negative woman? is that a thing? i am married, but if i were not, grumpy and negative would not be the qualities i would seek out

 

Some grumpy, negative men want a woman just like them, so they don't feel so bad. They feel more comfortable with them.

[Woggle]

So do you want a grumpy, negative woman? (I'm asking because some men do)

 

No I wouldn't which is why I said a man should try to show some sunshine and kindness on a date. I don't think it is a good thing to be this way but I understand what makes some people this way.

[kilgore]

that seems like a bummer.

 

anyway, i would never have wanted a woman who is just like me. boring.

[Popsicle]

that seems like a bummer.

 

anyway, i would never have wanted a woman who is just like me. boring.

 

 

Lol. Boring is not the same as dead inside.

 

I actually like boring men, I favor them. They are calm and even and I need that. I don't like unenthusiastic or pessimistic men though.

[kilgore]

Lol. Boring is not the same as dead inside.

 

I actually like boring men, I favor them. They are calm and even and I need that. I don't like unenthusiastic or pessimistic men though.

 

i am pretty enthusiastic and calm. maybe even a bit boring.

[PinkInTheLimo]

I font understand this whole IDGAF attitude or the attitude of being tired of being nice or trying. Really? Why wouldn't you want to be nice and try hard? I would try hard for sure (but not for someone who refuses to do the same- that would be unfair). That's what makes dating, relationships, and sex fun. Plus it's natural.

 

Well said. I also don't get why someone is rather grumpy than pleasant on a first date. Especially since he seemed so enthousiastic about my profile and pictures. And the latter are recent and give a correct image of my looks.

The guy clearly and correctly told me that my profile stood out. Would you then not do everything to give a good impression?

 

Even at 50 I am a bloody catch: slim, fit, smart, kind, funny. And I have a interesting job with an above average income. Plus no kids and no exes in the picture so not too much baggage. The guy should have been happy I gave him a chance. But it would not be the first time that I notice that a guy who pretends to want a woman with a lot of qualities ends up with some average gal because she's the only one who accepts to be bossed around by him.

Edited August 5, 2015 by PinkInTheLimo

[PinkInTheLimo]

the ones that think they are an authority or more experienced in life than me (these usually try to tell me what to do).

 

THIS. I just can't stand it. I had to work hard from a young age to be where I am now in my life, I did it all by myself and I am now in a professional and financial situation many people envy me for.

So for god's sake don't patronise and correct me as if I am totally clueless. My life is the best proof of the fact that I know very well what I am doing.

[Otter2569]

As an outgoing, in shape and open minded middle aged guy it is refreshing to find a fun, outgoing, vivacious woman who laughs and can have fun. In my experience I do best with women in their mid 40's - not sure why. Any time I date anyone approaching 50 its like a whole new world. A dull, boring, one drink, peck on the cheek world - one that I don't want to live in.

 

I know thats just my experience. It wouldnt stop me from dating the 50ish range but it does have my radar on high alert.

[PinkInTheLimo]

As an outgoing, in shape and open minded middle aged guy it is refreshing to find a fun, outgoing, vivacious woman who laughs and can have fun.

 

Nothing wrong with wanting that. But how fun, outgoing and vivacious are you yourself? And.. your middle aged but exactly what age are you? I can imagine that some 65 year old men also think they are middle aged... .

 

On online dating sites I see how men want all kind of things. There is no shortage of wish lists: attractive, fit, fun, warm, feminine, sweet, etc... But what do the guys offer in return? Many have very boring profiles, bad pictures. Some look like the living dead and want a woman who is warm and feminine. I guess they hope that such a woman will bring them back to life ?

[Toodaloo]

Jesus. Now I'm hoping that I get hit by a f*cking meteorite before I get thrown back into the dating world.

 

Don't worry if you don't before it will feel like it when you do!

 

My points are kinda mute because over the past few days I have decided to duck out of dating and worry about painting my finger nails instead.

 

But I had the same. I even posted about it as some really did upset me quite badly and more than they should have.

 

My most successful dates have been with younger men.

 

If I can be bothered to try again I think I am going to go younger rather than older... I just get fed up of people assuming that they can take their woes out on me just because I have breasts so I must be like their ex...

 

I digress... And yes - my attitude shows that I should not be dating at the moment so I am not...

[elaine567]

I am guessing that many of those 50+ men were brought up by fathers who were very much of the old school.

They were the head of the household and the little woman knew all about cooking and the laundry, but her opinions about anything else were largely unwanted or ignored.

 

They may have fallen into more modern marriages with women who knew their own minds in the 1970s/1980s, but now single again, they are again looking to their father to be their role model.

They are now the age their father was, and they are perhaps now seeking and demanding the same respect from women.

 

Of course that clashes completely with a more liberated 50 or 50+ year old woman, who now view their "trapped" mother, as the last person they would want to emulate.

[carhill]

I am guessing that many of those 50+ men were brought up by fathers who were very much of the old school.

They were the head of the household and the little woman knew all about cooking and the laundry, but her opinions about anything else were largely unwanted or ignored.

 

While experiences vary widely, my personal one was with a father who greatly respected and loved the woman he was married to, and for his natural life, and she chose to be a SAHM after many years of working (getting married at 32 for the first time, quite old in the 1940's-50's). Yep, she cooked, cleaned managed the handful that I was and was the household manager, completely trusted with all the income her white collar husband brought in the door. Both parents were positive role models, though definitely old-fashioned and with good reason. Both had experienced the specter of the Great Depression and WW2 and father did it up close, on the ground in Italy with Mark Clark. Those events instilled values in people which my generation would largely never comprehend.

 

I did see men whom meet the description you offered, both as a young man viewing fathers and as an older man viewing peers. Largely, my peers who are such men are married for many decades and are grandfathers and great grandfathers now. Why? Because they chose women who meshed with their world view of family and gender politics. I don't agree with men who lord power over women but I'd be remiss if not respecting the pragmatism of it. It works. I have no interest in that and, generally, women of my demographic have no interest in my teamwork-based concept of relationships or the attitudes which foster it so opting out after being married was the healthiest solution.

[elaine567]

While experiences vary widely, my personal one was with a father who greatly respected and loved the woman he was married to, and for his natural life, and she chose to be a SAHM after many years of working (getting married at 32 for the first time, quite old in the 1940's-50's). Yep, she cooked, cleaned managed the handful that I was and was the household manager, completely trusted with all the income her white collar husband brought in the door. Both parents were positive role models, though definitely old-fashioned and with good reason. Both had experienced the specter of the Great Depression and WW2 and father did it up close, on the ground in Italy with Mark Clark. Those events instilled values in people which my generation would largely never comprehend.

 

But had your father been tossed on the world of OLD at 55, he would be very hard pushed to find a woman today, who would feel loved and respected being entrusted to be a "household manager".

Many women nowadays, would not view that as being loved or respected.

 

I don't agree with men who lord power over women but I'd be remiss if not respecting the pragmatism of it. It works.

 

Of course it works, master and servant, is a tried and tested concept.

I speak - you listen.

I decide - you carry out my wishes.

[carhill]

I don't understand your point. My father was 55 when I was 12 years old, so 1971. Of course he'd have been able to find a compatible woman, just as he did after his first wife left him and took his daughters while he was in Italy in the war. Those relationship tenets worked in his time.

 

In my time, I preferred a more equal sharing of responsibilities and power. My point was my demographic was, in my generation, still more old fashioned in that regard and my philosophy was at odds with it, regardless of advances in equal rights and privileges afforded women. At the elemental level, they still preferred men who lead them rather than stand beside them. That's not an indictment, rather a reflection upon the realities. Hence, accepting reality, I opted out. No sense in beating a dead horse. They want what they want and more power to them.

[autumnnight]

While experiences vary widely, my personal one was with a father who greatly respected and loved the woman he was married to, and for his natural life, and she chose to be a SAHM after many years of working (getting married at 32 for the first time, quite old in the 1940's-50's). Yep, she cooked, cleaned managed the handful that I was and was the household manager, completely trusted with all the income her white collar husband brought in the door. Both parents were positive role models, though definitely old-fashioned and with good reason. Both had experienced the specter of the Great Depression and WW2 and father did it up close, on the ground in Italy with Mark Clark. Those events instilled values in people which my generation would largely never comprehend.

 

I did see men whom meet the description you offered, both as a young man viewing fathers and as an older man viewing peers. Largely, my peers who are such men are married for many decades and are grandfathers and great grandfathers now. Why? Because they chose women who meshed with their world view of family and gender politics. I don't agree with men who lord power over women but I'd be remiss if not respecting the pragmatism of it. It works. I have no interest in that and, generally, women of my demographic have no interest in my teamwork-based concept of relationships or the attitudes which foster it so opting out after being married was the healthiest solution.

 

A-freaking-men. My parents had/have a great, loving marriage of equals, and it gets real old having people assume he was a chauvinist and she was the "little woman."

[carhill]

It just occurred to me that similar attacks on family credibility first occurred in real life while I was caregiving for the household manager and by none other than the person I had chosen as a teammate. Cruel irony, I guess. The most memorable was it being called 'fake' and 'Beaver Cleaver'. At the time, I was simply Oh, well, that's life. However, I could see how such attacks could foster negative feelings. Fortunately, we had MC to work through that stuff and gain a greater understanding of how differences in family dynamics play a role in a marriage.

[jen1447]

I font understand this whole IDGAF attitude or the attitude of being tired of being nice or trying. Really? Why wouldn't you want to be nice and try hard? I would try hard for sure (but not for someone who refuses to do the same- that would be unfair). That's what makes dating, relationships, and sex fun. Plus it's natural.

 

Honestly, what I really think this is about is that they just don't like the women that much. They're not attracted or something. Or, they are depressed.

If being nice blew up in your face for the years you did it you wouldn't be so eager to keep doing it.

 

In other words, because cynicism and negativity - pretty much exactly what the OP suggested.

[PrettyEmily77]

Are these healthy, positive, mature men on online dating sites? I don't see a lot of those there.

 

 

That's a fair point. I'm in my very late 30's and, before I met my BF (randomly, locally, divorced after a long marriage, primary custody of two teenage boys, highly demanding job, handsome, friendly, caring, thoughtful, etc.) I went on a few dates with guys aged between 30 and 45.

 

 

Some had kids, some didn't, some had nasty experiences, some didn't but they were all (well, almost all) very decent, funny, healthy, well-adjusted guys. The one thing they had in common is that they weren't really looking for a date / a relationship - well, they were looking, but not actively, if that makes sense. I never did OLD myself so I've met all of them either through acquaintances or going out and about (a lot easier than one might think), I mostly did the approaching myself (most of them appreciated it) and I didn't get any jadedness or bitterness from them.

 

 

Could also be where you live?

[Woggle]

This kind of cynicism is common in men and women who have been through their share of bad relationships and maybe one bad divorce. Women who have their share of bad relationships tend to be very negative as well. They might hide it better than man at first but that hate eventually comes out. With men the hate is out there from the start. Get a group of women who have been through bad relationships together and the venom just comes out.

 

The ironic thing is that my eff it mentality has made me more positive. I realize that my life is in my own hands and that I don't have to put up with people who mistreat me. I also have the attitude that I am who I am and people can take it or leave it. My life is great since I adopted that attitude.

[Weezy1973]

Even at 50 I am a bloody catch: slim, fit, smart, kind, funny. And I have a interesting job with an above average income. Plus no kids and no exes in the picture so not too much baggage. The guy should have been happy I gave him a chance.

 

OP, I wonder if this attitude might come across as arrogant in person. If you feel that the guy should be grateful that you're giving him a chance (i.e. because you're so much better than him), he might go into "defense" mode which is often negative, angry, grumpy. Remember that anger is really fear, and in this case it would be fear of getting rejected.

 

Did you feel lucky to be asked out by him? Maybe he sensed that you did not?

 

 

But it would not be the first time that I notice that a guy who pretends to want a woman with a lot of qualities ends up with some average gal because she's the only one who accepts to be bossed around by him.

 

This actually sounds very cynical, for someone claiming to not be cynical. Men want women that are going to be great relationship partners. The qualities most look for are things like empathy, an ability to compromise, honesty and openness. Things like "an interesting job with an above average income" are quite meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

[PinkInTheLimo]

If you feel that the guy should be grateful that you're giving him a chance (i.e. because you're so much better than him)

 

I don't go on a date with a mind frame of "I am giving this guy a chance." I mean, I am not the pope so I am not offering him an audience. For me it is about getting together and doing something nice all while getting to know each other, on an equal footing.

The reason that I am saying that I am a catch is because he sure was treating me as if I was some dumb woman who did not know how to lead her life. Confronted with this negativity my view is: "Who the hell does he think he is that he is so negative about a woman with so many positive traits?"

 

This actually sounds very cynical, for someone claiming to not be cynical. Men want women that are going to be great relationship partners. The qualities most look for are things like empathy, an ability to compromise, honesty and openness. Things like "an interesting job with an above average income" are quite meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

 

I am not cynical, I am realistic when I say that men often want average women. And you just proved my point by mentioning "an ability to compromise" as a character trait you are looking for. I read that as "following my lead, doing what I tell her to do, not challenge me." Since most men are not so smart that they always take the right decisions, a women with "an ability to compromise" will be a not too smart woman who still thinks that her average man is some kind of god.

 

This is something that I see all the time: men wanting a woman towards whom they can feel superior.

[Woggle]

The ability to compromise is a good thing in either gender. Most people don't want somebody with a my way or the highway mentality.

[jen1447]

This is something that I see all the time: men wanting a woman towards whom they can feel superior.

 

Interesting question tho - is that superiority genuine or is it actually insecurity? (i.e. do they actually think they're better than you or are they acting out bc they're afraid they're not?) Most ppl I know who are very successful and secure don't manifest those traits as haughtiness or superiority or dismissiveness of others.

[autumnnight]

And you just proved my point by mentioning "an ability to compromise" as a character trait you are looking for. I read that as "following my lead, doing what I tell her to do, not challenge me."

 

The fact that THIS is how you read the phrase "ability to compromise" pretty much says you DO have a chip on your shoulder.

[BluEyeL]

The ability to compromise is a good thing in either gender. Most people don't want somebody with a my way or the highway mentality.

I was going to post this exact thing. The ability to compromise is one of the most important characteristics of a relationship partner. I was looking for this specifically when dating.

 

OP being combative and abrasive doesn't make you smart and people who can compromise are not dumb.