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I don't feel right in my head anymore, does this pass?


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Eighty_nine
He will be back. Right now he is teaching you a lesson for saying mean things to him (what he perceives as mean, cause he can't handle anything but ego strokes). Right now he is breaking you down even more than you already are because when he comes back you will get relief from your current pain caused by his rejection and silent treatment. The next time you get angry and want to talk back to him you will remember the pain you suffered for speaking up to him in the past and so to avoid that pain you will stay silent.

 

 

Exactly, please understand this Kiera- it is all conditioning. When we are hurt, we need comfort and relief and tend to take it where we can find it. But when we are thinking rationally, we make better decisions. He has to put you in the "hurt" category as often as he can because then you will need him to ease your pain. If he didn't ignore you, abandon you in times of great need, and generally treat your poorly, how could he keep you? He couldn't keep you, because you'd be thinking too rationally to take his garbage. He will be back. He is conditioning you to stick around for a long time.

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Guilty Good Girl

Awwww, I feel your confusion in this post. I must admit though, because I am a relationship blogger/activist, Men rarely leave, especially with children involved. It is imbedded in them to maintain the "children" and the family for pride sake. I know this may hurt and I have been there, so I am with you. The pain is real no doubt. Hope I can help. :)

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So, for those of you still struggling with love for AP, I think I figured out what kills it, aside from outright abuse.

 

Denial. Repeated, overt denial of our very existence.

 

Some five weeks back, my mm's wife found a card from my son, who had only met him once. He denied me. Wriggled out. I was just some acquaintance.

 

That was the first real hit.

 

Today, we had lunch and we're driving around a town neither if us live in, talking, and....sorry, but it makes me laugh....we drove by two of his sons driving in the opposite direction. They're 18 and 21.

 

The phone rang, and he pulled over to deal with the ensuing circus.

 

I got out of the truck and sat under a tree in a parkinglot, but I could hear him saying nope, nope,I'm nowhere near there. Wasn't me. Nope.

 

On and on.

 

He was visibly shaken afterwards, and dropped me off at my car to drive home in order to further his alibi. He even changed his shirt to look different in case they noticed what he was wearing as they passed.

 

I sat there, calm and amazed and actually, kind of amused.

 

It was like watching a kid have a freak out after being caught in the cookie jar.

 

It wasn't me!! Nope! No suh!!

 

It didn't hurt like all the other stuff he's done has hurt. I felt strong, and, well, disgusted.

 

I had this man's child a year ago this week. The baby's death date is the fifteenth.

 

Honestly, people?

 

These married APs are complete cheese balls. Utter, utter cheese balls, and they would sell us out for amnesty, a good alibi, and a handful of beans.

 

While I was sitting in the parking lot being blown around by the ocean wind, listening to him deny me AGAIN, and just laughing and shaking my head, my phone alerted.

 

A guy who'd been asking me out - we've never met- texted again and asked if I was free tomorrow night for coffee.

 

I'd let it go and haven't touched base with him in almost a week and a half. I wanted to stick by my mm. Be loyal. Not mess it up. Not screw up our Feng shui.

 

I sat there, hesitating, looking at the text, listening from my spot under the tree as mm told his son he'd been alone, "what woman....? I don't know what you're talking about!"

 

And I made plans to have coffee tomorrow night.

 

They're freaking cheeseballs, these MMs. We could cure cancer, bear their children, learn to levitate, give them the most addictive Olympic sex ever, and love them like no one ever has, or will, and still, they'll sell us out for beans.

 

I'm looking forward to looking at someone across a table who doesn't make me so sad. Someone who doesn't degrade and disrespect me. It will be nice to feel like a normal person for an hour.

 

It will end at coffee.

 

I'm not ready for more. I may never be. But heck, what a bizarre synchronicity. I'm glad it happened.

 

And no, I'm not happy or amused that his boys were concerned. I haven't a sadistic side and I feel for them. I'm amused that he fumbles like a bumble, all freak outs and stuttering, over something so nothing. I had to tell my husband I was pregnant. Lost so much. He acts like a simple call he can wiggle out of is The normandy invasion.

 

It's hilarious.

 

And he did wiggle out of it. He texted an hour ago.

 

I haven't responded. His shtick is making me sick.

Edited by kieraglass
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Today, we had lunch and we're driving around a town neither if us live in, talking, and....sorry, but it makes me laugh....we drove by two of his sons driving in the opposite direction. They're 18 and 21.

 

so, you're still seeing this guy after all your heartfelt posts and the massive responses you got from those who have your best interest at heart? not only that... you find it amusing that his sons saw the both of you on one of your rendezvous and they question his fidelity to their mother.

 

good luck with that.

 

 

i don't want to make you feel any worse than what you've already been through, but this guy is a real POS and you're his accomplice in all this.

Edited by Artie Lang
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so, you're still seeing this guy after all your heartfelt posts and the massive responses you got from those who have your best interest at heart? not only that... you find it amusing that his sons saw the both of you on one of your rendezvous and they question his fidelity to their mother.

 

good luck with that.

 

 

i don't want to make you feel any worse than what you've already been through, but this guy is a real POS and you're his accomplice in all this.

 

Yep. I stopped posting to Keira long ago. I do feel compassion for her situation, but no point trying to help someone who doesn't want to help themselves.

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So, for those of you still struggling with love for AP, I think I figured out what kills it, aside from outright abuse.

 

Denial. Repeated, overt denial of our very existence.

 

Yup, second class citizen syndrome.

 

Mine came a couple of weeks back. My AP went on a weeklong trip with her SO (he's a trucker) to see what life on the road was like. They made it back to his town (90 miles away) Friday night and she was supposed to drive down Saturday morning and spend Sat/Sun with me. Well the SO decides to come down with her and spend one more night with her before heading back to work. So I got pushed off another day after having been in a black hole for a week.

 

NoFrickingWay.

 

After that, it truly sank in that I ws an option, not a priority and I'm worth more than that. Fark her.

 

WMF

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Fair enough. And I deserve it. But like the saying goes about shoes and walking in them, I'd never come at a poster with even the slightest malice. Not here.

 

The kids only thought they saw his truck. Both vehicles were going forty plus mph on a busy road.

 

Had it been anything more nefarious, if course I wouldn't have found mm's flip out amusing.

 

I'm not a monster, for cripes sake. Not by a longshot.

 

Watching him lose it over something silly and completely inconsequential was funny, after all I've been through for him, and so be it.

 

It never even came up again for him. It was a non issue. No one was questioning his fidelity to anyone.

 

Thanks for the butt kicking. I may have slightly deserved it.

 

Onward.

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there's no malice in what i posted- it's the TRUTH. this guy treated you in the worst way possible, and you're still seeing him- "HELLO, MCFLY!" he abandonded you in your most vulnerable state... in your hour of need. what is this redeemable quality that draws you to him, because i see none.

 

i, like most, feel duped. like someone else pointed out, there's only so much a person can do to help someone else... but in the end it's up to said person to act.

 

 

Had it been anything more nefarious, if course I wouldn't have found mm's flip out amusing.

 

Watching him lose it over something silly and completely inconsequential was funny, after all I've been through for him, and so be it.

 

funny... amusing... watching as he tries to explain to his son's they didn't actually see him with another woman!? how do you think they feel. you probably don't care as you have ultimate loyalty to this scumbag. if you really think they believe his BS story, you're more naive than i thought. they know something is up.

Edited by Artie Lang
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I don't think there has been anything malicious said in the recent posts. The sad fact is that:

 

You complain about how he treats you.

You continue to let him treat you like that.

Then you complain about how he treats you again.

 

I think you are stuck in your cycle of drama. I don't say this maliciously, or hurtfully, but as an outsider looking in... basing my opinion solely on what you tell us.

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whatatangledweb

I think this last occurance shows you that he is never leaving. He wouldn't have panicked like that if he was. I don't see anything amusing about it though. I would guess you chose to be amused rather than hurt.

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It also makes one wonder how accepting the kids would be of you if he did leave.

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But the humiliation from MM to you, is exactly what you are asking for? So you are getting what you ask for, and then why complaint about it?

 

What is the rational logic here? or just another routine "rinse wash repeat" cycle again.

 

You don't respect or give a %%^& to yourself, what do you expect him to give you? Very simple.

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His children Are in no doubt that they saw their father with a woman who is not their mother. If your comment about their ages is supposed to suggest they are old enough not to be upset, then you are horribly wrong.

 

This kind of duplicity upends their personal stories of their childhood and their parents relationship. It will change their view of their father forever. It will affect their feelings about their own emotions and fledging relationships now and in the future. There is nothing remotely funny about what their father, with your full support, has done to them and their mother.

 

"This Be The Verse"

 

They **** you up your Mum and Dad

They may not mean to, but they do

They fill you with the faults they had

And add some extra, just for you.

 

Man hands on misery to man

It deepens like a coastal shelf

Get out as quickly as you can

And don't have any kids yourself.

 

Philip Larkin

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No one is being malicious Keira. I for one can't understand why you keep choosing this for you and your son.

 

I have read every single post you've made. And I have compassion for your situation, but nothing I will say will change your course until your ready to change it for yourself. But first you need to stop lying to yourself.

 

A really really awful thing happened to you. And for hat I'm a truly sorry. It's heartbreaking.

 

But gently, you are NOT in some grand love affair. You have romanticised it to a point that's not realistic and you CLING to it like its your future. It's not.

 

The facts are this.

 

You have sex with a married man in his car when it's convenient for him.

Your had his baby and when you came from hospital he drove you to a strip club.

He freaked when he thought you were seen

He withdraws from you to punish you when you speak up about your unhappiness.

Your relationship is TOXIC

He is not leaving

 

This is not love.

 

But also, he didn't DO any of this to you. You chose it. Every step of the way you chose him, above you husband, above your son, above your mothers advice and most f all, above yourself. .

 

I'm not Saying this to be hurtful. I'm saying this because you are caught up in the drama cycle and the victim mentality. What you went through was awful, and I have so much sympathy for you. Once you recognise that where you are is a result of every choice you made, you realise they YOU HAVE THE POWER To change it. I can see your an intelligent woman. So it becomes extremely frustrating to read how yet again you were off with him in his car doing all the things you vowed not to do. You tell us you now see him, you have rage, you are going to focus on being a great mother to your son.... Blah blah blah.

 

Just like your MM - it's just words. It's a cycle. You disappear for a week, maybe 2... And sure enough, your back with a story about you and MM in his car...

 

It's just sad. And there is nothing anyone here can say to stop you from your destructive behaviour. It's a shame your son has been caught up in this. But if that wasn't enough to make you stop then nothing is.

 

I sincerely wish you well, but I just don't have it in me to watch someone who's so aware of what damage she is doing and choose it over and over and over again. Nothing any of us can say will change it.

 

When you're ready to do something different this board will give you all the support you could ask for. But right now, I don't have it in me to invest any more.

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...but no point trying to help someone who doesn't want to help themselves.

 

^^

 

it's fascinating watching someone repeat the same... over and over and over again & expecting different results every time AND then being shocked and shaken up & annoyed when the results turn out to be exactly the same.

 

even if the MM does leave his wife to be with the OP... in this situation - sadly, i'll be pyrrhic victory -- there is simply too much pain, hurt, betrayal and resentment in the relationship already.

 

& by the way... OP, his sons are up to something. they are young adults, you can be sure that their 6th senses are up - they saw what they saw so there might be a D-day coming up very soon.

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Hope Shimmers

Kiera, other than you, no one knows better than I do how difficult it is to struggle with whether or not to forgive the father of your deceased child for not being there for you during the most horrible time in your life. But even if you decide to forgive him, that is a completely separate issue than remaining in a relationship with him.

 

You seem to intellectually realize that what you are doing is destructive, yet you don't do anything to change your situation. What will finally motivate you to allow yourself to be treated with respect and do the right thing for your kids (your alive son and your deceased son)? If your kids aren't enough motivation for that to happen, then what is?

 

To be honest - and I say this gently - I have to agree with the poster(s) above who used the word 'drama'. The way you write your posts; the descriptive language you use and the way you react to situations which frankly should disgust you, suggest that you are addicted to the drama of being in this relationship. You are a smart women - you HAVE to be able to see that this relationship is not healthy. It's not even a relationship! Can you accept that you are addicted to this mess and then work hard to actually extricate yourself from it? Or do you want to spend the rest of your life mired in this drama instigated by a married man who is lying, selfish sack of sh*t?

 

I would think that even if you YOU don't think you deserve better, you would do something better for the sake of your children (including your deceased son's memory).

Edited by Hope Shimmers
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....The kids only thought they saw his truck. ...

Thanks for the butt kicking. I may have slightly deserved it.

 

 

The bolded is classic minimisation of his bad behaviour, by you. His sons actually saw his truck, not just thought they did, but made a mistake. He then gaslighted the h**l out of them so they presumably eventually concluded they'd made an error.

 

What an awful way for him to treat his young adult sons!

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This is so sad. I don't understand how you can let a person belittle you like this. Do you not have any self worth or dignity? My god, he actually changed his shirt? Is he a child?

 

You say you are amused by this. What is so funny about being treated like garbage and watching this man squirm in the possibility of being caught.

 

I'm sorry. I'm no angel either, but this is really sad.

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The bolded is classic minimisation of his bad behaviour, by you. His sons actually saw his truck, not just thought they did, but made a mistake. He then gaslighted the h**l out of them so they presumably eventually concluded they'd made an error.

 

What an awful way for him to treat his young adult sons!

 

Yep. They'll remember this.

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So, for those of you still struggling with love for AP, I think I figured out what kills it, aside from outright abuse.

 

Denial. Repeated, overt denial of our very existence.

 

Some five weeks back, my mm's wife found a card from my son, who had only met him once. He denied me. Wriggled out. I was just some acquaintance.

 

That was the first real hit.

 

Today, we had lunch and we're driving around a town neither if us live in, talking, and....sorry, but it makes me laugh....we drove by two of his sons driving in the opposite direction. They're 18 and 21.

 

The phone rang, and he pulled over to deal with the ensuing circus.

 

I got out of the truck and sat under a tree in a parkinglot, but I could hear him saying nope, nope,I'm nowhere near there. Wasn't me. Nope.

 

On and on.

 

He was visibly shaken afterwards, and dropped me off at my car to drive home in order to further his alibi. He even changed his shirt to look different in case they noticed what he was wearing as they passed.

 

I sat there, calm and amazed and actually, kind of amused.

 

It was like watching a kid have a freak out after being caught in the cookie jar.

 

It wasn't me!! Nope! No suh!!

 

It didn't hurt like all the other stuff he's done has hurt. I felt strong, and, well, disgusted.

 

I had this man's child a year ago this week. The baby's death date is the fifteenth.

 

Honestly, people?

 

These married APs are complete cheese balls. Utter, utter cheese balls, and they would sell us out for amnesty, a good alibi, and a handful of beans.

 

While I was sitting in the parking lot being blown around by the ocean wind, listening to him deny me AGAIN, and just laughing and shaking my head, my phone alerted.

 

A guy who'd been asking me out - we've never met- texted again and asked if I was free tomorrow night for coffee.

 

I'd let it go and haven't touched base with him in almost a week and a half. I wanted to stick by my mm. Be loyal. Not mess it up. Not screw up our Feng shui.

 

I sat there, hesitating, looking at the text, listening from my spot under the tree as mm told his son he'd been alone, "what woman....? I don't know what you're talking about!"

 

And I made plans to have coffee tomorrow night.

 

They're freaking cheeseballs, these MMs. We could cure cancer, bear their children, learn to levitate, give them the most addictive Olympic sex ever, and love them like no one ever has, or will, and still, they'll sell us out for beans.

 

I'm looking forward to looking at someone across a table who doesn't make me so sad. Someone who doesn't degrade and disrespect me. It will be nice to feel like a normal person for an hour.

 

It will end at coffee.

 

I'm not ready for more. I may never be. But heck, what a bizarre synchronicity. I'm glad it happened.

 

And no, I'm not happy or amused that his boys were concerned. I haven't a sadistic side and I feel for them. I'm amused that he fumbles like a bumble, all freak outs and stuttering, over something so nothing. I had to tell my husband I was pregnant. Lost so much. He acts like a simple call he can wiggle out of is The normandy invasion.

 

It's hilarious.

 

And he did wiggle out of it. He texted an hour ago.

 

I haven't responded. His shtick is making me sick.

 

I feel sorry for your son too OP. It sounds like you use him to try to illicit some kind of feeling from your MM. Why the hell is your kid, who only met the MM once, making cards for him? I suspect you put him up to it but even if you didn't and it was your son's idea (doubtful) you had no business giving the MM a card from your son. Don't have the foggiest idea why you would allow your son to make a card for a piece of crap man. Please keep your son out of this nasty business. Of course your MM is going to deny him.

 

 

To the second bolded, why or why do so many OW think turning themselves into self-loathing, no self-respecting, complete doormats will be attractive to any man, much less a cheating a MM. Why do you think letting yourself be treated like garbage will make you more attractive than his wife? Why do some OW think they should be rewarded for letting themselves be used? I'm being serious here. Letting a man walk all over you is not attractive, not even to the man who is walking on you, and there are no rewards for allowing it. Being a doormat doesn't make you more attractive or better than women who don't let themselves be mistreated.

 

 

Furthermore I don't think a woman who allows a man to abuse and mistreat her really even loves the man she is taking this treatment from and I think the MM realizes it's not really love either. I think he knows there is something really wrong when he can treat a woman horribly over and over again and she keeps taking it. He will keep taking whatever the woman has on offer but he knows it's f*cked up and not really love.

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I feel sorry for your son too OP. It sounds like you use him to try to illicit some kind of feeling from your MM. Why the hell is your kid, who only met the MM once, making cards for him? I suspect you put him up to it but even if you didn't and it was your son's idea (doubtful) you had no business giving the MM a card from your son. Don't have the foggiest idea why you would allow your son to make a card for a piece of crap man. Please keep your son out of this nasty business. Of course your MM is going to deny him.

 

 

To the second bolded, why or why do so many OW think turning themselves into self-loathing, no self-respecting, complete doormats will be attractive to any man, much less a cheating a MM. Why do you think letting yourself be treated like garbage will make you more attractive than his wife? Why do some OW think they should be rewarded for letting themselves be used? I'm being serious here. Letting a man walk all over you is not attractive, not even to the man who is walking on you, and there are no rewards for allowing it. Being a doormat doesn't make you more attractive or better than women who don't let themselves be mistreated.

 

 

Furthermore I don't think a woman who allows a man to abuse and mistreat her really even loves the man she is taking this treatment from and I think the MM realizes it's not really love either. I think he knows there is something really wrong when he can treat a woman horribly over and over again and she keeps taking it. He will keep taking whatever the woman has on offer but he knows it's f*cked up and not really love.

 

I think the fact that the MM kept the card suggests that it made sense in their context. When you believe there is a future children are a part of that belief. The man I had an emotional affair with lives in a neighbouring country and has a young child. For months I would examine my change after purchases and tuck away the coins that were from his child's birth year. I had this sad little idea that when the time came I would give him all these saved coins with his birthdate on them for spending money on a visit to Canada. (Hey...loonies and toonies add up! ) I never told the MM and now I have this little tin full of money that rattles with what now seem such stupid, naive, foolish dreams. But at the time it only made me happy. Perhaps it simply made Kiera happy too, this small connection between her son and MM.

 

Kiera, please keep posting honestly in your own voice and don't be discouraged by the feedback here. Help and wisdom comes in many packages, some that aren't tied up smartly with pretty bows. I understand the depth of your sadness and why you are stuck. Don't give up on yourself.

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Kiera... my question for you is, what is your plan here? What does your future look like and what do you want? Or are you just floating between the highs and lows of this affair with no real direction?

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I spent a few minutes unsettled by the honesty being thrown my way just now, but the fact is, it is honest, and I can do nothing but appreciate it. Being on the poop side of the stick here for continuing to post that I'm still seeing MM is understandable. I've had friends over time who struggled with issues, cheating husbands, substance abuse....there's only so much you can say, over and over, before you throw up your hands.

 

I understand the response. Of course I do. But the last thing I'm going to do is never visit help boards again, or lie. I've learned that authenticity is important, and even if I'm a screw up, I'm going to be honest about it. I have no one to talk to about any of this. It's been the loneliest fifteen months. I work and I'm with my son and heck, despite what us being implied, I'm an excellent mother. It's the one good thing about me that I know, now. Despite what happened and how my mistake affected his life.

 

The son driving thought he saw his truck because of a sticker on the side he thought he saw in passing, going fast. They didn't see the inhabitants. Bright sunlight, forty mph. It was simply a question of, hey, did we just pass you. Such a simple thing. My amusement, and yes, disgust, came from watching him act like a lunatic over something so innocuous. The kid was fine, said hey, if you're close pick me up a burger. It was nothing. His son is a very unfiltered, forthright kid, all big mouth and unafraid. Bold. He's not holding onto anything. And I'm glad. The last thing I want is more people hurt.

 

The reaction was insane. That was what amused and horrified me. It was an important thing for me to see. I posted about it. Perhaps it was a mistake. But it made a huge impact.

 

I started posting on the board months ago when I began to question wtf I'm doing in this. It may have been a mistake, but I had nowhere to go with my truths. I'm in counseling now, and I can say with certainty that no, I'm not addicted to drama. All I've wanted was what he's told me, over and over again. And I hold on, fighting my intelligence, denying what is so obvious.

 

I wanted to make everything I did for this mean something. I wanted to make the pain of my little boy mean something, the rage of my husband, all the extended family and friends that I lost and who no longer speak to me. I wanted the baby to mean something. To honor his short life. To make him count.

 

Walking away, like I so desperately want to do at times, feels like yet another failure in a year wrought with them. What was it all for, if I give up on this man? That's the base emotion that kicks in sometimes. What was it all for. And I hold on, letting myself be debased and denied and negated. Because I want this dysfunctional little BS family tragedy to mean something, in the end. I want that baby to have mattered. My son's broken home to have mattered. I wanted it so very very badly.

 

Yet more and more now, I know it doesn't. That it was all for nothing. That i traded it all in for trickery and lies, for a coward that used me as a human shield in something he was quite a major part of.

 

I'm still reeling from shame and haven't even to begun to replace the relationships I lost over all this. I feel like nothing, like the biggest whore, and fool, for believing it would end up differently. And I cling to him in my isolation. The very person I should run from and never look back at. I know all this. I know it's infuriating to read. But the thing is, I get it. I know it's twisted. And I'm changing. I rarely look at my phone now. I don't miss him when he's gone. I'm slowly strengthening. I use these boards incorrectly perhaps, engendering frustration, but the thing is, I'm not naive. I know this is over. I can feel it in my head. But I so desperately wanted it, for that baby. I wanted it to

be real, so he could be. The anniversary of his death is this saturday. I'm going to finally spread his ashes. It's time.

 

I use descriptive language because that's how I write. I don't romanticize this man anymore. I haven't for a while. It may not look like I'm learning a thing here, but each butt kicking humbles me and draws me further from that childish fantasy I had, the one of us being together.

 

I thank everyone for being honest, for telling me like it is.

 

I did go on a coffee date last night. The is a huge, huge thing. We sat for an hour and a half and talked, and then parted ways. It was nothing, and it was kind of everything. I felt engaged and like the person I was before I met MM, and though I don't feel it will go further, I liked feeling that way. Happy and alive and engaged. I had texts from MM that were hours old that i didn't even see til I got home and finally looked at my phone. It was kind of remarkable.

 

I wanted him to love me so much, but he doesn't, not really. And I'm going to be okay.

 

I'm sorry to have frustrated so many. I can't blame anyone. I'd kick my arse if I was someone else. It was always about the baby, and my son, my clinging to this dream. But it's time to wake the cripes up, and I know it.

 

Thank you so much.

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And the card thing, goodness, no. My son made four father's day, one for his dad, two for both his grandfathers, and because he had just met mm for a movie, him. Because he thought he was nice and funny, and because he's a dad, too. He was very clear in telling me that he didnt think of him as a dad, der, mom, but he's a dad of kids and i made him one.

 

I told mm about it, because it bothered me, to be frank, how much he liked him. I knew he would, but still, it hit home, how I'd made a mistake introducing them at mm's request. I was stupid. When he said he had to meet him because he was going to be in his life full time someday I faltered and allowed it.

 

He asked to see the card. It took me almost two weeks to remember to bring it. After he looked at the simple thing I put it back in my purse and he said, no, I want to keep that. It's incredibly special. I told him how stupid it was, and said, you're playing with fire.

 

And he was. And he told me later I'd been right.

 

I've never been one to press things in this, insinuate myself, or stir up drama. I've tried to keep him safe no matter what.

Just wanted to clear that up. I would never use my son as a pawn in this, ever. He's the one good true thing.

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