I don't feel right in my head anymore, does this pass?

[kieraglass]

Anika, you're right. I thank you. My son is all that matters. He doesn't need a doormat mom teaching him to take crumbs in life.

 

I haven't even found a better job, because my own job affords me time with mm, during the day. How pathetic. I could about slap myself off a stool. I planned to move on professionally when my son entered kindergarten and i was free. I met mm that summer. Kept job. Because of him. I felt I couldn't bear to only see him one night a week for a couple of hours.

 

Our days together forged our relationship. They keep it going. Even since the baby, the divorce, being financially strapped every day now, I don't move on and find something higher paying. Because I can't not see him? Him? You know, the guy who sat home watching TV with his wife while I was screaming out his dead kid, because he was too afraid to raise her suspicion by leaving the house on a Friday night?

 

Gross.

 

I am a piece of work.

 

He won't contact me again.

 

He's back at his wife's gilded apron strings playing good boy. Probably selecting his next victim as we speak.

 

I've become a liability. My tears and my suffering.

 

He needs fresh meat. The beast must be fed.

 

 

 

On an off note, I've been asked out for coffee by someone for Sunday? I'm not sure what to do. He's handsome, a few tears younger at 39, and kind. I don't feel much of a draw to him, but I may go. He told me he doesn't do commitment, he's a confirmed bachelor, it would just be fun, a night out. Red flaggy, yes. But I don't want to sit around staring at walls crying forever. MM has everything to this day. I want to start gaining back ground.

[SoleMate]

Keira, I hope you go on that date and forget about MM if only for a little while. I hope you find the strength to go complete NC on exMM and make it last. I'm sure I'm just one of hundreds of people who are longing for you to set yourself free. Also, please make sure you get a thorough physical exam including hormone and thyroid levels, and an eval for depression or other treatable issues. An intelligent and thoughtful woman like you should be doing more to take care of herself than you are doing now.

 

Triple hugs to you, you have your whole life ahead of you and you have the son you longed for here and now. I am terribly sad about the loss of your second baby......please don't let that pain impinge one more second on the life you have with your son right now.

 

(P.S. Your exMM is worse than the norm. Taking a newly miscarried and stunned and grieving woman to a STRIP CLUB against her will and forcing her to "have a lap dance" is a new low and verges on the sadistic/sociopathic. That was DELIBERATE and KNOWING degradation and humiliation of you by exMM and I am beyond outraged. Have you shared this with your counselor? Did he/she explain how abusive and sickening this was? If not, you need a new counselor.)

 

Again, hugs, you have so much work ahead of you and need to bring forth all your undoubted strength. Please know that so many of us are rooting for you.

[Rorocher]

Kiera, I am so sorry for your loss but I think another reason why you are so down in the dumps is that all you seem to have now is the same ol'. Same ol' job, same ol' mm, same ol' grief. You are stuck and you need to get yourself unstuck. MM has this hold on you, not because you love him, don't delude yourself, but because you have nothing else/better going for you. You are stuck, simply stuck in inertia. Reliving the same day over and over again. Groundhog day.

 

 

Why don't you start something, start small. Start looking for a better, higher paying job TODAY. Find your resume, start by updating it. A few lines today. Spend a couple of hours on it. Then go outside, take your son out for ice cream. Take him to the park. Another couple of hours. Go to dinner or cook together at home. Rent a movie, break out the popcorn and watch.

 

 

The point is, if you want to feel better and move on from this, you have to get out of yourself. You have to get out of your head. There is a whole world out there, passing you by, minute by minute, second by second, people actually living. Open your eyes, see what is around you. We are not guaranteed life, we are not guaranteed time. You should know that more than the rest of us, your son only had a few days to live. With each passing minute, your life is being taken away from you. Each passing minute is one less minute you have to live on this earth. Please don't waste it dwelling on the sadness that mm has caused you. Don't give another human being that much power over you.

[Ms. Faust]

Your son is the one who deserves your time and focus. Get rid of the MM. As long as you stay embroiled with him you won't be fully emotionally present for your little boy. Any guilt you are feeling for your son is useful guilt because you can still make changes and be a good mom. Your little boy isn't going to care that your MM is gone. He only met him twice. Don't project your feelings of this romantic tragedy onto your child. He doesn't care about your MM. Your MM has chosen not to speak to you for the last few days but you know that he will be back. What are you going to do when that happens?

 

I completely agree with this, 1000%. In a couple of years your son probably won't even remember OM if you don't bring him around.

I went back and reread your threads and you mentioned in your original post that your ex husband was horribly mentally, physically, and emotionally abusive. If this is the case then that is all the more reason your focus needs to be primarily on your living son. He is at a tender age, and needs to be nurtured, especially if one parent is abusive. You are expending energy on your OM that you can be giving to your child. Just from reading your posts it really sounds like he has been pushed to the background. I don't believe you mean to do that, it's just with what sounds like a volatile divorce and your unhealthy relationship with OM your son has no chance of being in the forefront.

 

I also respectfully disagree that you should go out with anyone. I think the last thing you need to be thinking about at this point is the opposite sex. Especially since you said this:

 

...he's a confirmed bachelor, it would just be fun, a night out. Red flaggy, yes.

 

The disregard to blazing red flags is what got you involved with your OM to begin with and is what continues to entangle you and him. Please learn from past and current lessons.

Edited July 31, 2015 by Ms. Faust

[kieraglass]

Thank you, guys. Rorocher, solemate, et al..

 

Solenate, was the club thing a new low for mm? Honestly, I don't understand what that was. I told him repeated that day that I just wanted to be with him, him. We hadn't had a night to be together more than two hours on Wednesdays in six months. I wanted to lay down with him. Be a couple. I'd been on autopilot for a few weeks since it went down in the hospital.

 

We went to dinner, and he said he understood. I used my awful chest cold as an excuse. But I know he knew I was uncomfortable in general. I kept saying I felt funny about my recent birth. He kept saying you can't tell. Back and forth. He knew I didn't want to go. When we left the restaurant, he headed towards the highway south. Out of state.The place.

 

I will never know what the hell that was, why it was important. It doesn't fit with my image of him. It felt so dark and strange. I felt like I was dreaming.

 

My counselor was stunned but didn't say much.

 

I honestly didn't put forth any boundaries, and because of that it's hard for me to see what he did as wrong. Didn't yell or protest as he drove there. I already felt so hollow. I understand now, why people join fight clubs, why they do heavy drugs. I didnt, but I understand the feeling of welcoming annihilation. It's like it just doesn't matter, after a while.

 

It would be good to see that time, and some others, as his manipulation and lack of concern for me. I'm trying, believe me.

[SoleMate]

I honestly didn't put forth any boundaries, and because of that it's hard for me to see what he did as wrong. Didn't yell or protest as he drove there...

Kiera, this is important. It's easy for me (and I would wager, 99% of people on LS and IRL) to see that this was HORRIBLE behavior on his part regardless of the fact you didn't "yell or protest". But you say you can hardly see it's wrong. That shows some distorted perceptions.

 

I do believe that you have one of the worst (ex?)-MM I've ever heard about on LS, and I've read 100s of these stories. I understand he's a CEO. CEOs are disproportionately likely to be socio or psychopathic (see Why a Disproportionate Number of CEOs Are Psychopaths). Not an axe murderer (probably); more just a cold, calculating, empathyless user and master manipulator. I'm not saying this to encourage analysis of MM's character or behavior - I'd urge you NOT to do so as it just continues the trap - but I would like you to be aware the risk you're running by not being NC. A psychopath MM is harder to escape from and more dangerous to you than the run of the mill.

 

I believe this r/s has been a perfect storm of you being vulnerable (exactly how, I'm not sure, as you haven't shared much or anything about your pre-marriage life) and him being ready to manipulate and use. Plus an amazingly ineffectual counselor...... Anyone who would not blow a whistle - or AT LEAST ask you if you were OK with that and you enjoyed it - on what he did to you at the strip club shouldn't be counseling people. IMO.

[SoleMate]

Re the confirmed bachelor - there is nothing wrong or red flaggy about a confirmed bachelor, who is honest about not wanting commitment, taking you out for an evening of casual fun.

[kieraglass]

Solemate, that link blew my mind. I honestly don't know what to think. He is indeed the calmest, most charming person I've ever known. So centered and unflappable. I'd hate to think it's that, but god, honestly, who knows. Thank you so much for the link. Scary as it was to read.

 

I'm taking my son swimming in a bit. I do such things all the time, but tonight I'm going to try to be mentally present. Everyone is right. I've been so focused on MM I can't be anywhere but in my head hurting. Can't anymore. Hurting over someone who doesn't hurt over you or afford you your dignity is useless. He'll be just fine NC after a bit, if he isn't already. That should be motivation to us all to get out from under and live.

[anika99]

Anika, you're right. I thank you. My son is all that matters. He doesn't need a doormat mom teaching him to take crumbs in life.

 

I haven't even found a better job, because my own job affords me time with mm, during the day. How pathetic. I could about slap myself off a stool. I planned to move on professionally when my son entered kindergarten and i was free. I met mm that summer. Kept job. Because of him. I felt I couldn't bear to only see him one night a week for a couple of hours.

 

Our days together forged our relationship. They keep it going. Even since the baby, the divorce, being financially strapped every day now, I don't move on and find something higher paying. Because I can't not see him? Him? You know, the guy who sat home watching TV with his wife while I was screaming out his dead kid, because he was too afraid to raise her suspicion by leaving the house on a Friday night?

 

Gross.

 

I am a piece of work.

 

He won't contact me again.

 

He's back at his wife's gilded apron strings playing good boy. Probably selecting his next victim as we speak.

 

I've become a liability. My tears and my suffering.

 

He needs fresh meat. The beast must be fed.

 

 

 

On an off note, I've been asked out for coffee by someone for Sunday? I'm not sure what to do. He's handsome, a few tears younger at 39, and kind. I don't feel much of a draw to him, but I may go. He told me he doesn't do commitment, he's a confirmed bachelor, it would just be fun, a night out. Red flaggy, yes. But I don't want to sit around staring at walls crying forever. MM has everything to this day. I want to start gaining back ground.

 

Kiera noooo......no men right now. Another man is not the answer. Especially not a 39yr old confirmed bachelor who states right out of the gate that they don't do commitment. Are you shopping for pain and drama?

 

I had 3 long term dysfunctional relationships by the time I was 42. After that, stick a fork in me cause I was done. I felt like I had no more to offer and nothing left to give and I committed myself to being single. Having never been single for no more then maybe 3 months in my entire life i felt horrible at first. Lost, alone, afraid, sad, incompetent, unlovable, etc. I so wanted a man to validate me and to stroke my ego but whenever someone would ask me out I just couldn't. I had reached my limit of pain and couldn't offer anything to a new man. I was just miserable.

 

After a period of no new pain and no new drama I had nothing to do but focus on bettering myself and my life. I took classes, I applied myself at work, I took care of my family, I saved money, I got a better job etc. It was all gradual and slow. I couldn't really see the improvements taking place, I just kept trudging along because there was nothing much else for me to do. with no romantic relationship to distract me or sap my energy I kept getting stronger in all ways. Emotionally,mentally, physically, financially and spiritually. It was all getting better and better. It's amazing how much you can grow and improve when you're not trying to hide yourself and your shortcomings in a relationship. People use their dysfunctional relationships as a way to avoid taking personal responsibility for themselves. Their dysfunctional partner becomes the scape goat and the excuse for not changing. Remove that excuse and you will have no choice but to face yourself and make changes.

 

After a few years of total single hood I didn't recognize my old self anymore. My life had become the life I always wanted and I was turning into the person I always wanted to be. Strong, confident, and bold. I used to not have any faith or confidence in myself at all. Now nobody believes in me more than I believe in myself. All told I didn't date for about 4 years and that break from pain and drama was the greatest I ever did for myself. I wouldn't say that everyone shoul avoid dating for that long but I think every women needs some time totally on their own to find their inner strength and to grow their self confidence and esteem. I used to always try to shortcut and get those things from men but it just doesn't work that way. You have to give those gifts to yourself and once you have you will be ready to recognize a good man when you see one.

 

 

No more creepy selfish men. You don't need anymore of that crap and most certainly your son doesn't need that drama either. Grieve your losses and plan your future. Start searching for a better job and start giving your little boy 100 percent of your emotional attention.

[Hope Shimmers]

Kiera. My heart continues to bleed for you as I know the pain you are going through and what it's like to lose a baby with ex-MM.

 

I think there is a tendency to not want to break that bond with the MM because he is your last link to your son. That's how I feel regarding my daughter. It has made me want to give him chances that he didn't deserve; it has caused me to question whether it was forgivable. In my opinion it makes it a thousand times harder to walk away, because you share that bond with your son. And it is already just so, incredibly hard to walk away.

 

My ex-MM finally divorced and so I have gone through the same thoughts of having him back in my life again. Is it forgivable... I posted a thread to that effect a few weeks ago but for some reason I just got shredded into little pieces, I guess because people thought I was stupid for even considering it. And perhaps I was, but I still needed help with the question, not attacks.

 

So in one way I can understand why you keep going back to MM. Partly to keep that bond with your son alive, with the only other person who shared it (regardless of how he felt about the baby). And partly because I think you are punishing yourself for all that happened, and all that was lost, and somehow you think this is what you deserve.

 

You can make yourself crazy, and physically sick, with this crap. I just spent 9 hours in the ER and cardiac unit with chest pain that I thought was a heart attack, and turned out to be an infection of the membrane lining my heart. I may end up being hospitalized with this physical crap tomorrow unless it goes away, and it isn't. The stress is just toxic. It is SO toxic to think about how crappy you have been treated by these men, who take what they want when they want it, and otherwise won't even bother to acknowledge that you are alive, because they are more worried about their own butts.

 

Our stories are so similar. We even lost our babies at about the same time, for very similar causes. It's a toss-up between your MM and my ex-MM as to who was the biggest a**hole throughout this. Mine was not there for me at all. Yours was technically there, but the stuff he did was inexcusable. I think your MM wins the prize.

 

I have been trying to move forward. I am dating someone, a person I like a lot. I have refused to see ex-MM. YOU need to stop blaming yourself and feeling guilty for the death of your son and the demise of your marriage and the effect it has had on your other son. Just STOP. It is what it is... what happened HAPPENED, and you can't change it. It's not just your fault. A million things happened to lead to the events that you are hurting over now. It's not all just on you.

 

Two choices really - you can decide to keep MM in your life despite his horrible treatment of you and his complete disrespect for his own son and for you. Or, you can decide that you owe your son who is alive and the one who died, something much better, and however hard it is, you can get this scum out of your life and move forward. And stop marinating in the past. I understand how much it hurts that you lost your son - I still hurt for my daughter and it's been several years. You won't get past that pain in a way, but you do have a choice how you conduct the REST of your life from here. Be the mom that both your sons can be proud of. That is what I am trying to do.

 

And yes, go on the date.

[Hope Shimmers]

Kiera noooo......no men right now. Another man is not the answer. Especially not a 39yr old confirmed bachelor who states right out of the gate that they don't do commitment. Are you shopping for pain and drama?

 

I had 3 long term dysfunctional relationships by the time I was 42. After that, stick a fork in me cause I was done. I felt like I had no more to offer and nothing left to give and I committed myself to being single. Having never been single for no more then maybe 3 months in my entire life i felt horrible at first. Lost, alone, afraid, sad, incompetent, unlovable, etc. I so wanted a man to validate me and to stroke my ego but whenever someone would ask me out I just couldn't. I had reached my limit of pain and couldn't offer anything to a new man. I was just miserable.

 

After a period of no new pain and no new drama I had nothing to do but focus on bettering myself and my life. I took classes, I applied myself at work, I took care of my family, I saved money, I got a better job etc. It was all gradual and slow. I couldn't really see the improvements taking place, I just kept trudging along because there was nothing much else for me to do. with no romantic relationship to distract me or sap my energy I kept getting stronger in all ways. Emotionally,mentally, physically, financially and spiritually. It was all getting better and better. It's amazing how much you can grow and improve when you're not trying to hide yourself and your shortcomings in a relationship. People use their dysfunctional relationships as a way to avoid taking personal responsibility for themselves. Their dysfunctional partner becomes the scape goat and the excuse for not changing. Remove that excuse and you will have no choice but to face yourself and make changes.

 

After a few years of total single hood I didn't recognize my old self anymore. My life had become the life I always wanted and I was turning into the person I always wanted to be. Strong, confident, and bold. I used to not have any faith or confidence in myself at all. Now nobody believes in me more than I believe in myself. All told I didn't date for about 4 years and that break from pain and drama was the greatest I ever did for myself. I wouldn't say that everyone shoul avoid dating for that long but I think every women needs some time totally on their own to find their inner strength and to grow their self confidence and esteem. I used to always try to shortcut and get those things from men but it just doesn't work that way. You have to give those gifts to yourself and once you have you will be ready to recognize a good man when you see one.

 

 

No more creepy selfish men. You don't need anymore of that crap and most certainly your son doesn't need that drama either. Grieve your losses and plan your future. Start searching for a better job and start giving your little boy 100 percent of your emotional attention.

 

I wish I could 'like' this post a thousand times.

[kieraglass]

Thank you anika, and hope, and everyone.

 

Anika, yes. No more crappy selfish men. I am going to go to coffee, at some point, with this person, because I have been sitting in the house alone half the week every week for fourteen months waiting on a dream, waiting for a " goodnight I love you so much" text, from someone who is hiding in the backyard with their secret phone, and i can't do this anymore. I need to live. Go out. Walk down the street with someone in daylight, even if it is just some new friend that I will never care deeply about. Talk. Smile. Live, dammit.

 

I will never do anything physical with this person. I know that already. He sees others, doesn't commit or love deeply, and I'm never being leftovers again. But just spending time with someone other than my MM will be profound. I literally don't even leave the house unless my son is with me, or I am at the gym hiding in the back on a treadmill.

 

MM asked me last week after we were together in that way if I wanted to see other people. Like, moments after. I got upset. He said he doesn't want me to at all, but I'd alluded to it when I've been upset and lonely, and he wanted to ask me about it.

 

I balked. Said all I wanted was him. Which is still sickly true. But it struck me driving home shortly after- the old dump off- that a man who was planning to be with me soon, always soon, wouldn't worry about that. He'd just say, sit tight, I'm coming. MM worries and brings it up because in his heart he still doesn't know if he's really ever going to be with me. He's afraid.

 

Hope, I do stay partly because of my baby, and the connection to him, but it's also so much more. As twisted as it sounds, I've never felt so deeply connected to or comfortable around another person as I do him, never mind a man. It took me forty years to find that level of deep connection. The commraderie, and wit, and intensity. When we are together I am fully engaged and laser focused. Head over heels. It's been that way for three years and has never lessened. Even in the aftermath of his benign neglect and steadfast loyalty to home and family and hearth. I suppose I feel like I deserve crumbs. There's a self esteem thing at play. I suppose I feel that the disconnect and emptiness I felt around every other man I've been with is worth settling for such a bright, part time thing. I've often told him I'd rather have him, part time, a couple of hours a few days a week, than something grey and unmoving to me full time.

 

I've rather kissed his settled, comfortable ass. He knows he's my king. We teach people how to treat us, and I've taught him over and over the past year that I need nothing, that i am the fierce loner who drives myself home alone on the highway lightheaded from giving birth forty eight hours before. I used to think it impressed him, my courage, but now I know it just made him so glad he didn't have to deal. Relieved. I taught him that I'm nothing, and that his job is easy. A few pub tabs here and there, a gift here and there, two hours of talk, some fooling around, and he's off, racing against curfew.

 

It always amazed me how he obeys her rules, how she says jump and he says how high, and that I get nothing. Not even a phone call the night I was released from the hospital. I believe we communicated by text.

 

Looking back, it shocks me, how we accept so little, how we think so very little of ourselves.

 

Hope, I would never rip you to pieces or judge you for being confused about your MM now that he's divorced. Ever. You and i know the mental disaster of loss, and how the lack of closure, and acknowledgement, leaves you reeling. I have often fantasized that he would finally get it, what happened, and cry with me, just once, over what that poor baby suffered coming so soon, before he died. Like a normal man would. A man who was there in the room and saw.

 

But they're not normal men. They're scared and protecting their own arse and running on fumes and adrenaline. They can't feel, in that state, for anyone but themselves. It's like being in endless survivor mode. No empathy, no compassion. All self absorbed fight or flight. Me me me me me. I know you hurt, but hey, what about me?

 

These MMs are so very me centric.

 

One day mid summer the abuse from my mother and husband over what I'd done came to a head. She was screaming at me on the phone, shame on you, shame, he was texting me, whore, whore, you should kill yourself whore, and i fell apart. I felt suicidal. I went to my car at work and couldn't stop crying. Started considering hanging myself, four months pregnant. I told mm by text that I was scared and i didn't feel right please help me, please, I'm scared by my thoughts, and he texted back, " Yah. I feel suicidal, too."

 

I left work hysterical. Never texted him back until the next day. He was entirely not there.

 

He felt suicidal, too. He. In his lavish home with family, no one knowing, comfortable, probably sitting by the pool with a cold soda.

 

Hope, I think as women we secretly feel responsible for getting pregnant, and their lack of involvement almost makes sense to us. I mean, it's our burden, right? We bare it ourselves. Become matyrs.

 

But here's the thing. When their wives were pregnant they were rubbing their feet and running out at ten pm to get them hagen daaz. Snapping to it.

 

It's because we were never real human beings to them. We were paper dolls there to meet their needs and fill their gaps and the idea, that we might be frightened and desperate on that table, in excruciating agony, howling in animal grief as we tried to hold their baby in, well, it just didn't strike them.

 

Paper dolls don't feel. They look pretty. They smile. They do not cry.

 

I know how confusing it is for you, hope. Having him come to you now. All your hatred and resentment suddenly stopped in it's tracks by bewilderment and, dare i say it, a tiny shard of hope.

 

Does he get it now? What he did to me? To her? My little girl who died with me?

 

I don't know that he gets it, hope. But maybe he does, on some level, now that he's divorced and not in that perpetual protect my own arse machine. Maybe it has finally struck him profoundly.

 

I don't know. But I do know that I understand you. And deeply. I feel a profound sense of caring and connection to you. That has never happened to me on the interwebs. I'm so sorry for what we share. That darkness. But the caring I feel for you is real, and alive. Maybe our babies are together in heaven, if there is such a place. Maybe they go to a special green place full of love, and wait for us. Maybe they'll have a talk, someday, with their fathers. If there is a heaven, it is a place of utter forgiveness and absolute love. Maybe there is absolution. Maybe they will simply touch their father's face, and it will be done. I like to think this. That these men will have their moment of redemption, and grace. They are broken people, but they do not mean to be, not really. I have compassion for them, in off moments. I don't know how else to be.

 

 

Broken, so so broken, though. It never even struck mine to come to that ER once over the course of a week. I was there four times from Sunday to friday. Fifteen minutes from his house. I'm sickened every time he runs home playing beat the clock now. I feel like nothing and the sadness turns to rage in an instant and i become a monster.

 

We can't get past it. And I'm pretty sure we're not supposed to. He said, last week in a two hour phone conversation, that he though he was doing the right thing, back then, but..." now I'm not so sure."

 

I almost burst out laughing, but restrained myself.

 

That's been about the most progress he's made emotionally in a year.

 

I'm trying to build a castle out of tic tacs here, with this dude. It just isn't coming along.

 

 

He calls me princess. I know who his queen is. I always have.

 

He said last week that he snaps to it for her and nutures the status quo at home because he doesn't want to be disrespectful. He wants "to do the right thing."

 

I almost fell over. He's been with me for three years, yet, he wants to respect her. He respects her, yet leaves me to the worst time of my life alone. The whole thing, their skewed philosophy, is enough to boggle the mind.

 

I'm not sure how she, who has barely afforded him sex and affection, and who alternately torments him with verbal outbursts and silent treatment for days over minor issues, and has for years, has engendered such a fear of rocking the boat in him. Yet he leaves the supposed love of his life to the wolves, dumps me off like a prostitute persistently, tells her, when she gets too close last month, that i am just some unattractive woman of no consequence.

 

I feel so very respected, too, yes. You are so respectful.

 

This denial of me last month when she found my little boy's card for him has been the straw that broke the idiots back. I've been devastated and simmering, and i finally Jetsoned on him for what may have been the last time.

 

We are three days NC today. The longest we've ever gone in three years. Two has been tops. I did leave that vm crying wednesday saying goodbye, and he never responded. He hasn't seen me like that ever. Just weeping.

 

I imagine it scared him shtlss and he's wondering if I'm a bunny boiler now. The fact that he never even tried to comfort me with a response, even if it was a mutual goodbye, tells me a lot.

 

I've meant nothing, and I'm pretty sure of that. I was just an affair who got inconveniently knocked up and conveniently unknocked up. And now that I've finally fallen into tears and sobbing in front of him, boom. Get the broom. This model appears to be broke.

 

Three days NC. I miss him like hell. But I feel clean, and a bit dignified, for the first time ever, during NC, not desperate and weepy and broken. And that is something new.

 

I'm sticking with my heaven fantasy. I'd do anything to see my child again, to know that my choice was right, and whole, and that it meant something, even if just to him.

 

If anything, this journey has given me a bit of hope, and faith. I was such an agnostic heathen before. Now, in my loneliness and despair, there is something glimmering. I look at the sky a lot, and find peace.

[Mount]

Yes that is not good, you are teaching him you do not want ANYTHING from him thus you are nothing. And it (you want nothing) will NOT impress him, it only makes him look down on you and think you have no value, which you do not want that I assume.

 

Men respect women wanting more for themselves, deep down it is true (also that is why the woman that is his wife turned out be his wife). Remember next round (towards any man) you need to ask more, more and more, more time, more cares, more whatever...etc, I am serious.

 

People have to be selfish first (a.k.a love self first), then being lovable by others. BTW your this post is quite long I have not finished reading all but I have to reply with above for now.

 

 

And also I have other question that quite intriguing me and in my mind ALL THE TIME, of course I am sorry for the loss of the babies but why you all including other OW, why did not you have condoms, the price of condoms is not rocky-high.

 

Despite the love or whatever dovey lovey, everyone including OW particular has to think the consequence to protect yourself first, including health. My words might sound to be too straightforward, but isn't it the truth. Loving anyone and forgetting yourself health or potential danger, isn't crazy? (I did not only request to see the medical report from MM from past years, but also went with him to different clinic/doctors to check with my presence to ensure everything is what it is supposed to be).

 

 

Separately in a joking way, I felt relieved that MM did not feel being degraded as it looked like I was asking doctors to check "meat" for me...LOL

 

 

Thank you anika, and hope, and everyone.

 

Anika, yes. No more crappy selfish men. I am going to go to coffee, at some point, with this person, because I have been sitting in the house alone half the week every week for fourteen months waiting on a dream, waiting for a " goodnight I love you so much" text, from someone who is hiding in the backyard with their secret phone, and i can't do this anymore. I need to live. Go out. Walk down the street with someone in daylight, even if it is just some new friend that I will never care deeply about. Talk. Smile. Live, dammit.

 

I will never do anything physical with this person. I know that already. He sees others, doesn't commit or love deeply, and I'm never being leftovers again. But just spending time with someone other than my MM will be profound. I literally don't even leave the house unless my son is with me, or I am at the gym hiding in the back on a treadmill.

 

MM asked me last week after we were together in that way if I wanted to see other people. Like, moments after. I got upset. He said he doesn't want me to at all, but I'd alluded to it when I've been upset and lonely, and he wanted to ask me about it.

 

I balked. Said all I wanted was him. Which is still sickly true. But it struck me driving home shortly after- the old dump off- that a man who was planning to be with me soon, always soon, wouldn't worry about that. He'd just say, sit tight, I'm coming. MM worries and brings it up because in his heart he still doesn't know if he's really ever going to be with me. He's afraid.

 

Hope, I do stay partly because of my baby, and the connection to him, but it's also so much more. As twisted as it sounds, I've never felt so deeply connected to or comfortable around another person as I do him, never mind a man. It took me forty years to find that level of deep connection. The commraderie, and wit, and intensity. When we are together I am fully engaged and laser focused. Head over heels. It's been that way for three years and has never lessened. Even in the aftermath of his benign neglect and steadfast loyalty to home and family and hearth. I suppose I feel like I deserve crumbs. There's a self esteem thing at play. I suppose I feel that the disconnect and emptiness I felt around every other man I've been with is worth settling for such a bright, part time thing. I've often told him I'd rather have him, part time, a couple of hours a few days a week, than something grey and unmoving to me full time.

 

I've rather kissed his settled, comfortable ass. He knows he's my king. We teach people how to treat us, and I've taught him over and over the past year that I need nothing, that i am the fierce loner who drives myself home alone on the highway lightheaded from giving birth forty eight hours before. I used to think it impressed him, my courage, but now I know it just made him so glad he didn't have to deal. Relieved. I taught him that I'm nothing, and that his job is easy. A few pub tabs here and there, a gift here and there, two hours of talk, some fooling around, and he's off, racing against curfew.

 

It always amazed me how he obeys her rules, how she says jump and he says how high, and that I get nothing. Not even a phone call the night I was released from the hospital. I believe we communicated by text.

 

Looking back, it shocks me, how we accept so little, how we think so very little of ourselves.

.

Edited August 1, 2015 by Mount

[What_Did_I_Do]

Thank you anika, and hope, and everyone.

 

Anika, yes. No more crappy selfish men. I am going to go to coffee, at some point, with this person, because I have been sitting in the house alone half the week every week for fourteen months waiting on a dream, waiting for a " goodnight I love you so much" text, from someone who is hiding in the backyard with their secret phone, and i can't do this anymore. I need to live. Go out. Walk down the street with someone in daylight, even if it is just some new friend that I will never care deeply about. Talk. Smile. Live, dammit.

 

I will never do anything physical with this person. I know that already. He sees others, doesn't commit or love deeply, and I'm never being leftovers again. But just spending time with someone other than my MM will be profound. I literally don't even leave the house unless my son is with me, or I am at the gym hiding in the back on a treadmill.

 

MM asked me last week after we were together in that way if I wanted to see other people. Like, moments after. I got upset. He said he doesn't want me to at all, but I'd alluded to it when I've been upset and lonely, and he wanted to ask me about it.

 

I balked. Said all I wanted was him. Which is still sickly true. But it struck me driving home shortly after- the old dump off- that a man who was planning to be with me soon, always soon, wouldn't worry about that. He'd just say, sit tight, I'm coming. MM worries and brings it up because in his heart he still doesn't know if he's really ever going to be with me. He's afraid.

 

Hope, I do stay partly because of my baby, and the connection to him, but it's also so much more. As twisted as it sounds, I've never felt so deeply connected to or comfortable around another person as I do him, never mind a man. It took me forty years to find that level of deep connection. The commraderie, and wit, and intensity. When we are together I am fully engaged and laser focused. Head over heels. It's been that way for three years and has never lessened. Even in the aftermath of his benign neglect and steadfast loyalty to home and family and hearth. I suppose I feel like I deserve crumbs. There's a self esteem thing at play. I suppose I feel that the disconnect and emptiness I felt around every other man I've been with is worth settling for such a bright, part time thing. I've often told him I'd rather have him, part time, a couple of hours a few days a week, than something grey and unmoving to me full time.

 

I've rather kissed his settled, comfortable ass. He knows he's my king. We teach people how to treat us, and I've taught him over and over the past year that I need nothing, that i am the fierce loner who drives myself home alone on the highway lightheaded from giving birth forty eight hours before. I used to think it impressed him, my courage, but now I know it just made him so glad he didn't have to deal. Relieved. I taught him that I'm nothing, and that his job is easy. A few pub tabs here and there, a gift here and there, two hours of talk, some fooling around, and he's off, racing against curfew.

 

It always amazed me how he obeys her rules, how she says jump and he says how high, and that I get nothing. Not even a phone call the night I was released from the hospital. I believe we communicated by text.

 

Looking back, it shocks me, how we accept so little, how we think so very little of ourselves.

 

Hope, I would never rip you to pieces or judge you for being confused about your MM now that he's divorced. Ever. You and i know the mental disaster of loss, and how the lack of closure, and acknowledgement, leaves you reeling. I have often fantasized that he would finally get it, what happened, and cry with me, just once, over what that poor baby suffered coming so soon, before he died. Like a normal man would. A man who was there in the room and saw.

 

But they're not normal men. They're scared and protecting their own arse and running on fumes and adrenaline. They can't feel, in that state, for anyone but themselves. It's like being in endless survivor mode. No empathy, no compassion. All self absorbed fight or flight. Me me me me me. I know you hurt, but hey, what about me?

 

These MMs are so very me centric.

 

One day mid summer the abuse from my mother and husband over what I'd done came to a head. She was screaming at me on the phone, shame on you, shame, he was texting me, whore, whore, you should kill yourself whore, and i fell apart. I felt suicidal. I went to my car at work and couldn't stop crying. Started considering hanging myself, four months pregnant. I told mm by text that I was scared and i didn't feel right please help me, please, I'm scared by my thoughts, and he texted back, " Yah. I feel suicidal, too."

 

I left work hysterical. Never texted him back until the next day. He was entirely not there.

 

He felt suicidal, too. He. In his lavish home with family, no one knowing, comfortable, probably sitting by the pool with a cold soda.

 

Hope, I think as women we secretly feel responsible for getting pregnant, and their lack of involvement almost makes sense to us. I mean, it's our burden, right? We bare it ourselves. Become matyrs.

 

But here's the thing. When their wives were pregnant they were rubbing their feet and running out at ten pm to get them hagen daaz. Snapping to it.

 

It's because we were never real human beings to them. We were paper dolls there to meet their needs and fill their gaps and the idea, that we might be frightened and desperate on that table, in excruciating agony, howling in animal grief as we tried to hold their baby in, well, it just didn't strike them.

 

Paper dolls don't feel. They look pretty. They smile. They do not cry.

 

I know how confusing it is for you, hope. Having him come to you now. All your hatred and resentment suddenly stopped in it's tracks by bewilderment and, dare i say it, a tiny shard of hope.

 

Does he get it now? What he did to me? To her? My little girl who died with me?

 

I don't know that he gets it, hope. But maybe he does, on some level, now that he's divorced and not in that perpetual protect my own arse machine. Maybe it has finally struck him profoundly.

 

I don't know. But I do know that I understand you. And deeply. I feel a profound sense of caring and connection to you. That has never happened to me on the interwebs. I'm so sorry for what we share. That darkness. But the caring I feel for you is real, and alive. Maybe our babies are together in heaven, if there is such a place. Maybe they go to a special green place full of love, and wait for us. Maybe they'll have a talk, someday, with their fathers. If there is a heaven, it is a place of utter forgiveness and absolute love. Maybe there is absolution. Maybe they will simply touch their father's face, and it will be done. I like to think this. That these men will have their moment of redemption, and grace. They are broken people, but they do not mean to be, not really. I have compassion for them, in off moments. I don't know how else to be.

 

 

Broken, so so broken, though. It never even struck mine to come to that ER once over the course of a week. I was there four times from Sunday to friday. Fifteen minutes from his house. I'm sickened every time he runs home playing beat the clock now. I feel like nothing and the sadness turns to rage in an instant and i become a monster.

 

We can't get past it. And I'm pretty sure we're not supposed to. He said, last week in a two hour phone conversation, that he though he was doing the right thing, back then, but..." now I'm not so sure."

 

I almost burst out laughing, but restrained myself.

 

That's been about the most progress he's made emotionally in a year.

 

I'm trying to build a castle out of tic tacs here, with this dude. It just isn't coming along.

 

 

He calls me princess. I know who his queen is. I always have.

 

He said last week that he snaps to it for her and nutures the status quo at home because he doesn't want to be disrespectful. He wants "to do the right thing."

 

I almost fell over. He's been with me for three years, yet, he wants to respect her. He respects her, yet leaves me to the worst time of my life alone. The whole thing, their skewed philosophy, is enough to boggle the mind.

 

I'm not sure how she, who has barely afforded him sex and affection, and who alternately torments him with verbal outbursts and silent treatment for days over minor issues, and has for years, has engendered such a fear of rocking the boat in him. Yet he leaves the supposed love of his life to the wolves, dumps me off like a prostitute persistently, tells her, when she gets too close last month, that i am just some unattractive woman of no consequence.

 

I feel so very respected, too, yes. You are so respectful.

 

This denial of me last month when she found my little boy's card for him has been the straw that broke the idiots back. I've been devastated and simmering, and i finally Jetsoned on him for what may have been the last time.

 

We are three days NC today. The longest we've ever gone in three years. Two has been tops. I did leave that vm crying wednesday saying goodbye, and he never responded. He hasn't seen me like that ever. Just weeping.

 

I imagine it scared him shtlss and he's wondering if I'm a bunny boiler now. The fact that he never even tried to comfort me with a response, even if it was a mutual goodbye, tells me a lot.

 

I've meant nothing, and I'm pretty sure of that. I was just an affair who got inconveniently knocked up and conveniently unknocked up. And now that I've finally fallen into tears and sobbing in front of him, boom. Get the broom. This model appears to be broke.

 

Three days NC. I miss him like hell. But I feel clean, and a bit dignified, for the first time ever, during NC, not desperate and weepy and broken. And that is something new.

 

I'm sticking with my heaven fantasy. I'd do anything to see my child again, to know that my choice was right, and whole, and that it meant something, even if just to him.

 

If anything, this journey has given me a bit of hope, and faith. I was such an agnostic heathen before. Now, in my loneliness and despair, there is something glimmering. I look at the sky a lot, and find peace.

 

 

I could have written this with the painful exception of the loss of your sweet baby.

 

5+ years with MM. I walked away from my M because of our "plans" to be together. But he hasn't done the same. In fact, he just went out and bought a new boat for his family so his W doesn't get suspicious of us. But I don't dare say anything. I'm not supposed to. I am supposed to look pretty, smile, feed his ego, wait for his slivers of time and never, ever challenge him or ask questions about this future he promised. When I do, he berates me until I am a crying heap on the floor. What happened to my self esteem? Why do we continue to allow them to treat us like mongrel dogs. I am back to being suicidal. Went to counselling and it offered nothing.

 

They are selfish ***holes. To treat another human being in this fashion is disgusting. I've lost my power to walk away from him. I have no family (deceased) and only one distant girlfriend. I'm so alone and he knows it. Then they lure us back in with their enticing words and make us feel like we matter again. But we don't. I hate him but hate myself more. And I will live til my dying day sickened with the decisions I've made. It is not worth living with this despair anymore.

 

Please make your way out of this

[travelbug1996]

You have what's called a "trauma bond" to this person. Its not a connection but more of a dependence or attachment and its unhealthy. I read this story and my heart goes out to you. May God Bless you with the strength to see this person for who they are and not who you want them to be. (((HUGS)))

[Dela]

You have what's called a "trauma bond" to this person. Its not a connection but more of a dependence or attachment and its unhealthy. I read this story and my heart goes out to you. May God Bless you with the strength to see this person for who they are and not who you want them to be. (((HUGS)))

 

How it s this "trauma bond" experienced?

I was also pregnant with my ExMM but did not keep the baby.

We were very attached before but after this happened we became more close.

If i think about it, it was like a greaving/healing/torturing process. I might have such a hard time letting him go because i m having such a hard time letting go of my baby ( it was my decision to abort but i didn t want to make this decision- the situation was very complicated). So this trauma bond could be a little here also.... Hmm

[seren]

Kiereglass, your post is one of the saddest i have read here on LS. I am so sorry to hear about your loss and that you had to go through it alone. I am a BS and had my husband done this to the OW I would have blown a gasket. What a selfish man he is, you deserve better. I hope you come to see this.

 

Take very good care of you, it is no comfort, but some day, in the future, you will look back and wonder WTF and be with someone who always makes you his number one. Look after yourself and be kind to yourself, we all believe those we love, but it is always actions we should be paying attention to, words are cheap and easily said. seren x

[NewLeaf512]

Thank you anika, and hope, and everyone.

 

But they're not normal men. They're scared and protecting their own arse and running on fumes and adrenaline. They can't feel, in that state, for anyone but themselves. It's like being in endless survivor mode. No empathy, no compassion. All self absorbed fight or flight. Me me me me me. I know you hurt, but hey, what about me?

 

These MMs are so very me centric.

 

 

It's be awere never real human beings to them. We were paper dolls there to meet their needs and fill their gaps and the idea, that we might be frightened and desperate on that table, in excruciating agony, howling in animal grief as we tried to hold their baby in, well, it just didn't strike them.

 

Paper dolls don't feel. They look pretty. They smile. They do not cry.

 

Does he get it now? What he did to me? To her? My little girl who died with me?

 

I've meant nothing, and I'm pretty sure of that. I was just an affair who got inconveniently knocked up and conveniently unknocked up. And now that I've finally fallen into tears and sobbing in front of him, boom. Get the broom. This model appears to be broke.

.

 

 

Thank you for sharing. I can't imagine how difficult that was to write, but there is no doubt in my mind that is you with your skin peeled off. What I say here now applies to this situation I believe 100% and Possibly Hope as well. It might not mean anything to you now but maybe it will someday.

 

When I was a young lass newly graduated and eager to save the world, I still didn't know if I'd stay a solicitor or go to be a Barrister, I started my articles (you must do this in my country) and I was accepted by one of the most well respected firms in the area for a woman of already notable reputation who specialises in family law but further also trained as a psychiatrist. She dazzled me she was so posh and all this education. Her passion was representing spouses who were divorcing narcissists (can be male or female but usually male). These divorces are cases unlike any other thing I've ever seen in human behaviour before or since. In the most loving way I can (and I'm not qualified to diagnose anyone) this MM is a narcissist with sociopathic tendencies from what you have described above and you are his supply. I urge you to look at "the narcissist in your life" you can google it. They are impossible to treat and the only love MM has is for himself. You are disposable and once a narcissist is done with you ( and as you presented if you emote he runs) he is also a conflict avoidant narcissist. I am begging you to part ways and keep NC for the rest of your life. You are correct in saying he doesn't care: he doesn't. He never will and he can't ever. This MM will destroy you until there's not enough glue in the universe to put you back together. I'm sending hugs. Please look up on Google.

 

My hearts breaking for you.

NC

[kieraglass]

Seren, thank you. I can't imagine mine is one of the saddest. Honestly I'm so disconnected from what's happened I almost feel bad for presenting it that way. I feel bad for making people sad. Ha. Kinda sick.

 

New leaf, my close friend suggested he is a narcissist after the night she was on the phone with him shouting at him to go back to the hospital, that I was there, really, and in labor. He just kept saying, I can't. I can't go back.

 

(He was out of time, with wife. Unsaid, but makes sense.)

 

She hated him immediately. She said, there is something deeply wrong with him as a human being.

 

I read up on narcissism after that, just terrified. My first H in my twenties was a malignant narcissist. We lasted one year. It was pure insanity.

 

My MM doesn't seem to fit all the catagories. He seems too caring, and kind? But then again...I'm in denial. I have to be.

 

The other night, last time I saw him, I told him how handsome he is, as always, and he said, "Yah, I'm really starting to see how handsome I am, for 52. I totally see it."

 

When i told my counselor the next day, she scream laughed. It startled me. She's never done that before.

 

I'll look it up. I'm so terrified that he is. Because I know that means I'm truly stewed. He will never, ever be someone I can be with, and he will never see what he has done in this, the damage he inflicted, at all.

 

Thank you. I so very need the truth.

 

Greetings from across the pond.

[seren]

Kieraglass, the truth is often there, we are all too often blinded by love that we simply cannot see it. Love is never rational, especially when we believe and trust and we make excuse after excuse and turn them into reasons we accept for piss poor behaviour. Some of us trust, simply because we cannot believe that the person we love and trust would and could be different from what we give them. I hope all this doesn't change your view of yourself or your belief in what love is.

 

One of the things I have learned is the ease in which some people can compartmentalise their lives, I never thought people could do this. My H will say all sorts of stuff about the OW, but I don't hold with all that, she meant nothing stuff, of course she did and I believe that at that moment he loved her, he will deny until the cows come home, but I hope he did, otherwise what was it all for. I am sure the MM loves and loved you, but I also think he loves himself more and for shame on him for treating you and your little baby so shabbily.

 

I don't know that I think people who have affairs are narcissists, maybe I just think hanging a label on someone makes it easier to explain their behaviour. I just think they are able to compartmentalise their lives and cannot see that in each of those compartments are people who believe they are the person they see, but in my opinion, that is just one part of the whole and , they do not mean to hurt or deceive, they just mean to live in the moment and forget that the other(s) are believing, loving and trusting - their bad. When the world's start to collide it isn't so much about not caring for one more than the other, it is about maintaining the status quo and those that love and trust get caught up in the mess that it all becomes. I am not talking about me, although parts of this apply, it is just something I have observed time and time again and not just in relation to affairs.

 

The feeling life has taken a wrong turn does pass, it always does, it often leaves us bruised and battered and we will never be the same again. But, I hope that it doesn't leave you with a tainted view of the world, trust and love are gifts, I just wish people would realise that. I hope that you heal and that your heart isn't too bruised and battered. Take care and I am sorry if I am saying hurtful things, you never now how something can be taken when read, it isn't meant to be. We all share experiences in a different but oh so similar way far more than we sometimes think. x

[kieraglass]

Seren, you aren't saying hurtful things. I so find them helpful and calming. Thank you.

 

I broke NC this morning. Sent him a song, and said, "I just want you to have it. That is all."

 

Of course that's not what I want, but it felt safer to say tat if he never contacts me again. It's been two hours, and, of course, he hasn't.

 

After I hit send I cried hysterically in the shower. I felt so angry at myself and helpless. My son isn't with me much this first week of the month and I'm reeling, so isolated. My best friend has some kind of religious snap last month, seriously, and went to God. Like, changed completely. All bible passages and blank eyes...she was my rock. I don't even recognize her now. So, isolation. And I broke NC. For nothing.

 

He hates me. I really think he does. One moment, all was fine, we were going to spend the rest of our lives together someday. I say some things he doesn't appreciate, and he disappears fir four days now. It's like I'm roadkill. It's so bewildering. I want to be angry, to say, eff you, who cares, I'm moving on to greener pastures, but I can't. That thing about the trauma bond is starting to make sense. I feel like groveling and begging, just to make him respond. It's truly sick.

 

Thank you. I don't know that he's a narcissist. But he has certainly behaved cruel the past few days. He knows how little companionship i have right now. He knows I'm lost. And it feels like punishment. Even if he's done he could tell me, tell me off, say goodbye, adios, something.

 

Crickets.

 

It's devastating. I feel completely shell shocked. Slept with the ashes under my pillow last night. How disgusting and unwell. It's like I've become an animal, my teeth bared in grief.

 

Thank you, seren. For your gentle analysis.

[NewLeaf512]

hi seren and kiera and anyone else reading this

 

 

Not all AP are narcissist, just like not all women are blonde.

 

 

As I mentioned I am certainly not qualified to diagnose anyone, it was merely a thought that came to me several times after reading through the entirety

of this thread multiple times, based on my past experiences of working with some of the spouses who were seeking to divorce spouses who were when I was doing my articles with my mentor.

 

 

I actually (in the dark ages with an internet that was barely an idea and an 800 baud modem) had to go to the library and read up on it. Both of you have said the very same thing I said to the QC that was my mentor (and still is) something like.. there is a list in this book of (if I recall) 15 symptoms/ traits of narcissists and I do not see that Mr X has all of these.

She explained that there are many types covert, overt, violent etc. That to form a diagnosis not all of the traits/ behaviours are present, it's that many of them are, over a repeated duration.

 

 

What struck me particularly in Kiera's story was

No empathy

No sympathy

the dehumanisation of other

treating people as if they are disposable

the biggest one for me was: most narcissists hate to be around anyone who is emoting anything but happy, fun, light behaviour and all the focus is on him or herself

They on the other hand can fly into a rage or any other type of behaviour

(for males) sex is extremely important to them. so even if the (potential narcissist) is angry or raging if you interrupt the rage by saying something blue or naughty, or even saying how manly they are in their anger and how sexy you find it, how arousing it is, they will drop whatever they are angry about and immediately shift the focus to that.

They can be incredibly cruel (because of lack of conscious)

and interestingly can be the passive H with BW but want to be dominant with OW

 

 

again I am not qualified in this area and it's merely a thought. The only person who can diagnose is someone qualified, however narcissism is considered a Cluster B category and one of the most impossible to treat because the Narcissist doesn't think there is anything wrong with him/her the problem is YOU. There is also no medication to treat it.

 

 

I hope this is not the case because it is very serious indeed. Please be careful. hugs

[What_Did_I_Do]

Below is the list of symptoms copied from the Mayo Clinic website:

 

DSM-5 criteria for narcissistic personality disorder include these features:

 

Having an exaggerated sense of self-importance

Expecting to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it

Exaggerating your achievements and talents

Being preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate

Believing that you are superior and can only be understood by or associate with equally special people

Requiring constant admiration

Having a sense of entitlement

Expecting special favors and unquestioning compliance with your expectations

Taking advantage of others to get what you want

Having an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others

Being envious of others and believing others envy you

Behaving in an arrogant or haughty manner

 

If you have narcissistic personality disorder, you may come across as conceited, boastful or pretentious. You often monopolize conversations. You may belittle or look down on people you perceive as inferior. You may feel a sense of entitlement — and when you don't receive special treatment, you may become impatient or angry. You may insist on having "the best" of everything — for instance, the best car, athletic club or medical care.

 

At the same time, you have trouble handling anything that may be perceived as criticism. You may have secret feelings of insecurity, shame, vulnerability and humiliation. To feel better, you may react with rage or contempt and try to belittle the other person to make yourself appear superior. Or you may feel depressed and moody because you fall short of perfection.

 

 

 

My MM is the poster child for these symptoms. His picture should be used an an example of who or what narcissism looks like. Now it all makes sense.

[anika99]

Seren, you aren't saying hurtful things. I so find them helpful and calming. Thank you.

 

I broke NC this morning. Sent him a song, and said, "I just want you to have it. That is all."

 

Of course that's not what I want, but it felt safer to say tat if he never contacts me again. It's been two hours, and, of course, he hasn't.

 

After I hit send I cried hysterically in the shower. I felt so angry at myself and helpless. My son isn't with me much this first week of the month and I'm reeling, so isolated. My best friend has some kind of religious snap last month, seriously, and went to God. Like, changed completely. All bible passages and blank eyes...she was my rock. I don't even recognize her now. So, isolation. And I broke NC. For nothing.

 

He hates me. I really think he does. One moment, all was fine, we were going to spend the rest of our lives together someday. I say some things he doesn't appreciate, and he disappears fir four days now. It's like I'm roadkill. It's so bewildering. I want to be angry, to say, eff you, who cares, I'm moving on to greener pastures, but I can't. That thing about the trauma bond is starting to make sense. I feel like groveling and begging, just to make him respond. It's truly sick.

 

Thank you. I don't know that he's a narcissist. But he has certainly behaved cruel the past few days. He knows how little companionship i have right now. He knows I'm lost. And it feels like punishment. Even if he's done he could tell me, tell me off, say goodbye, adios, something.

 

Crickets.

 

It's devastating. I feel completely shell shocked. Slept with the ashes under my pillow last night. How disgusting and unwell. It's like I've become an animal, my teeth bared in grief.

 

Thank you, seren. For your gentle analysis.

 

He will be back. Right now he is teaching you a lesson for saying mean things to him (what he perceives as mean, cause he can't handle anything but ego strokes). Right now he is breaking you down even more than you already are because when he comes back you will get relief from your current pain caused by his rejection and silent treatment. The next time you get angry and want to talk back to him you will remember the pain you suffered for speaking up to him in the past and so to avoid that pain you will stay silent.

 

 

You have a choice. Don't let the pain you are experiencing right now be wasted pain. If you grovel and beg right now then all this pain will be for nothing. You will just go deeper into the hell you are already in. Imagine you are in a dark tunnel. You look down the tunnel to your left. All you can see is endless blackness. That end of the tunnels seems to be nothing but a long path to dark nothingness, but your MM is on that side of the tunnel and he wants to take your hand and lead you deeper and deeper into that tunnel of despair, grief and brokenness. Then you look to your right and that end of the tunnel looks very long too but way off in the distance you see light! It's sunshine, it's the way out! You just have to keep walking slowly and methodically towards the light no matter how hard parts of the walk become and you have to accept that your MM wont be taking you there because he cannot offer you that kind of freedom and joy.

 

 

What do you want to do Kiera? You can walk away from your MM and get yourself out into the light and when you get there all this pain you have right now will be pain that you have learned from and grown with. Or you can take the MM's hand and follow him deeper into the pit of despair and loneliness and a never ending supply of new pain. Which way are you going to go? Please pick the light.

[RebelWithoutACause]

Affairs are an emotional and physical addiction and just like with any other addiction it's a slow recovery process. In order to beat your addiction you'll need to take the 12 steps but right now you haven't even made the first one. This is similar to an alcoholic who sits at table with a half empty bottle of vodka watching their life fall apart. Except it's not alcohol, it's the affair. But the effect is much the same.

 

If you look at the utter devastation the A has had on your life it's very similar to the devastation that substance abuse causes its victims. The mechanisms are very similar. They are both about the escape from reality and not being able to let go of something which is harming you and ultimately losing control of yourself, your life and any sense of self worth you've ever had. Then doing it all over again. And again.

 

Affairs are not about the "love" (although there are without a doubt strong feelings involved) or about the MM, they are all about a compulsive and dangerous addictive behavior which is very difficult to break away from.

If you can see that your situation is a result of your addiction which is a form of illness, and not as some romanticized idea of all consuming love, you'll get the clarity to start your recovery process.

 

I really hope you read more on addiction and find a support or therapy group that deals with such disorders. Good luck.