A "Successful" Affair?

[RightThere]

I've seen statistics where 90% of WS feel their marriage is better after an affair, whereas only 30% of BS would agree. So I think the favor-ability of the marriage after cheating is biased to the WS side.

 

I think that after an affair the marriage will always be different. Different than it was certainly, and also different than it could have been.

 

Could not agree more.

[Clay]

Perhaps Clay - and you are obliviously drawing on your own experiences.

 

Your absolutely right. I am. I try my best to read and learn how best to understand the things that happened in my life .

 

We worked through what we went through 5 years ago - And I don't feel like "deserve better" as I feel that his actions were largely the result of a "broken" man, as when it all got drilled down, it came down to low self esteem, self loathing, and a feeling that he didn't "deserve" someone like myself (who, was totally dedicated for 9 years at that point - I realize that it is someone ironic now).

 

I don't think I agree with this. Your might think you worked through it and really forgave him but going out and having your own affair because you felt hurt from his actions only shows you did not really forgive him. As to his reasons for cheating maybe your right. Your statement about you don't feel you deserve better makes me wonder if you have a low self esteem.

 

Yeah, maybe I will end up living in a car..... but I am a highly educated person, with a very successful career. I am the bread winner, who has supported us as he has pursued a number of "fun" jobs, which while fulfilling, do not pay the bills.

 

I honestly feel sad for my xW. I know she wanted a better life but her poor choices led her to this position. Our two children (I have custody) Hate her. My daughter calls her a whore when she talks to her on the phone. I know some people would say I won but I don't feel like much of a winner when I see my kids hurting. I don't feel good that they suffer without the love of there mother. I personally hope you never end up in a car as well. As a young boy I lived in a car with my mom for a month. Its a time I will never forget.

 

If the **** really hit the fan - I would be the one landing on two feet (not that I want it to go there).

 

Maybe so but if you can't walk today with really feeling good about the choices you made and how you treat people I don't view that as a successful life. So as to landing on your feet financially that might be great but personally I just don't feel the same way. Once again from my own experiences.

 

I feel in the end you really have to look back to the life you lived and how you treated people along the way. When I kicked my xW out for cheating on me I took a couple months to really think about things. I apologized to her for my actions and the things I did in my time with her. I never heard her once say she was sorry. I personally don't care if I ever hear it. I know I have to live with my choices.

 

 

Thank you for taking the time to respond to me.

 

Good luck with your relationship. I hope everything works out for you both.

 

 

C

[RightThere]

I've been thinking lately (and I made a long post about this on another forum) that women may not be wired for monogamy. I think your story sort of illustrates what I've been starting to believe.

 

Replace the bolded part with "some people" and you would be correct. And it's not a bad thing at all.

 

To assume that women are not wired for manogamy is an unfair generalization.

[RecentChange]

Thank you all for the thought out and mature responses. Gives me things to think about.

 

Correct, I don't know for sure that I feel "guilt free". I am trying to figure out HOW exactly I feel about this - hence airing my dirty laundry here. I do think I am a fairly mature and caring person. I KNOW what I did can be very hurtful, and I KNOW it was selfish to do so. It was a conscious, and risky choice that I made - and I know I may be paying the consequences for it. I hope it all doesn't go to crap... but, I know that IS a possibility. Can't say its a risk I was "willing" to take, but I foolishly did.

 

On a side note, we are not married, do not have children and will not be having children. I think if kids were in the mix its a 100x worse to screw around with your relationship like this.

 

And again - experiences - thinking about "things" - My brother cheated on his wife a year into their marriage - 20 years later, I think most people now would point to them as one of the happiest and successful couples around.

 

I know my sister also had some sort of "slip" about 10 years ago - her and her husband are still together, and to my knowledge, are very happy.

 

I can't say that I consciously thought "well THEY did it - I can to!" but talking this out made me think of this recent article:

 

Infidelity Lurks in Your Genes

 

I am going to keep mulling this over - what I have done, what I think about it, how it is affecting things.

 

On the "shallow" end - the sparks were not as hot as I hoped they would be with the "other man" - and the sex, eh, so so at best (made me appreciate my partner even if I do want to up his apatite). I think that made it MUCH easier to "quit"

 

As a side note, I had a "sex only" guy for years before met my partner. He was there through boy friends and dates - again, not an emotional tie, but WHOA were we hot in the sack. It was hard to give that up when I made the choice to be with one person. I am glad this OM wasn't like that - because I think I would have found it much harder to give up.

[nightmare01]

All my WW's siblings cheated on their spouses. But her parents never had infidelity be a part of their marriage. Maybe there is some genetic link, but I think in many cases it could be more of learning from others - an nurture instead of nature thing.

 

In the end cheating is a choice. I wish more WS would see it as such, instead too often I see the WS pointing to their BS saying that their BS MADE them cheat. That ends up adding insult to the injury.

 

I still believe you should tell your BH. It's the right thing to do for lots of reasons.

[RecentChange]

and in all honesty - if I came across an attractive woman that was intellectually engaging and fun... I can't say I would do anything different than you did. And I would likely use my WW's LTA as the hall-pass to go ahead and do it.

 

Funny-ish thing.. Soon after her LTA was confessed she suggested that I go and have a ONS to "even things out". I don't know how a ONS can somehow even things with a LTA - EA & PA (8+ years in all). I think to even the score I would have to have just the same sort of affair she did.

 

If that opportunity came along (and I'm not looking for it) with the right person - I can't say that I would say NO to the opportunity.

 

On a similar note - back when we were going through his infidelity - his counselor was telling him that I would "probably cheat" in revenge. Which at the time, I was totally insulted by. Again, ironic I know....

 

But, kinda like your example (ONS vs, on going) I still do not weigh my indiscretion the same (again, right or wrong). I think I would have had an EASIER time if it came out that "yeah, I was really horny and slept with this girl 3 times" rather than what had happened.

 

But again - sex to me is like an extra good back massage - unfortunately, that isn't how most view it - so, I must keep it in my pants...

[RecentChange]

I still believe you should tell your BH. It's the right thing to do for lots of reasons.

 

I am WAY to much of a wussie to right now - but it may come out in time.

 

And I KNOW this was a choice - and it is 100% on me.

 

And you are right - the "blaming" is SUPER hurtful - been on that side.

[jen1447]

I don't think I agree with this. Your might think you worked through it and really forgave him but going out and having your own affair because you felt hurt from his actions only shows you did not really forgive him. As to his reasons for cheating maybe your right. Your statement about you don't feel you deserve better makes me wonder if you have a low self esteem.

Maybe a subtle difference, but I think it's more like "going out and having an affair because you wanted to and using your guy's infidelity as justification."

 

Replace the bolded part with "some people" and you would be correct. And it's not a bad thing at all.

 

To assume that women are not wired for manogamy is an unfair generalization.

I believe he actually has a specific theory that points to women specifically.

[nightmare01]

I am WAY to much of a wussie to right now - but it may come out in time.

 

And I KNOW this was a choice - and it is 100% on me.

 

And you are right - the "blaming" is SUPER hurtful - been on that side.

 

I don't want to push - only want to say what I have experienced and learned in the 14 years since my own Dday.

 

The longer you go on lying by omission, the harder it will be to confess. You'll just keep making excuses.. now isn't the right time.. we are doing so well now, why ruin it.. etc.

 

If or when your BH does find out, it will wipe out any and all progress you've made. He will see himself as being played a fool - manipulated, and he will resent you for doing it. He may hate you for playing him that way.

 

I've met guys who have discovered affairs 10+ years after the affair ended. Their WW's thought the affair was all in the past and they were fine now.. but one day there was a slip. And many BS suspect intuitively that something is amiss, and will be looking for it. When that happened that "happy marriage" becomes a fiction to the BH.. they feel manipulated and used. They feel they were cheated out of years of their lives because the choices they made were based on lies.

 

Just saying - that's been my experience.

[S_A]

Replace the bolded part with "some people" and you would be correct. And it's not a bad thing at all.

 

To assume that women are not wired for manogamy is an unfair generalization.

 

I am not saying it is a bad thing. It can't possibly be a bad thing if it is in fact natural thing. And I have reasons to believe that women are not wired for monogamy. This isn't something I am saying simply because I am butt hurt over being cheated on (I was not cheated on).

[darkbloom]

I'm very curious as to the logic of cheating being acceptable because it happened "organically."

 

Ditto for lying being acceptable when it is self serving.

[Sastrugi]

Recent,

i am a madhatter like you. First a bs then a ws. My question is; why did it take an affair to ramp up your sexlife with your bs. What if you had put the effort in to your bs instead of OM.

 

What was it about your affair that reignite the passion with you H? I know i do not want to start up a new affair, i just miss the hot sex my wife and i use to have. Thoughts?

[regret143]

As I have been the BS myself, I totally understand the feeling of being "allowed" to cheat because the spouse did it. I relate to her even further, because I am the one with the higher sex drive in the relationship. My mind goes "If she, that even care that much for sex, had some cake, why can't I have it too?".

I have to keep myself busy to stay out of trouble. If some day (or night) I'm out, alone, had 3 beers, and a opportunity arises, I can't give any guarantees I won't jump on it.

[Clay]

Maybe a subtle difference, but I think it's more like "going out and having an affair because you wanted to and using your guy's infidelity as justification."

 

 

I think its both. Its like I hate you for hurting me and I am going to show you how it feels.

 

 

I know I came close when I was with my xW. Some days like others I wished I would have followed through with it. I look back on those days with sadness and regret. I don't blame her anymore for the cheating. I blame myself for staying after it happened the first time. I blame myself for allowing my kids to be hurt by staying. I wished I would had looked up these sites back then. I know I would have handled it differently. I have always been some what of a loner so doing it all on my own seemed the logical choice at the time. Obviously I was not thinking that through clearly.

 

 

Clay

[autumnnight]

I'd trash any "your genes made you do is" bullcrap. It just gives you an excuse as to why "you couldn't help it" and other the excuse to feed their "once a cheater always a cheater" bullcrap.

 

Take charge of YOURSELF. THAT will be your success

[RecentChange]

For me at least - Jen's take is spot on.

 

I have alway wanted to sleep with someone else. I really enjoy sex, and I REALLY enjoy the excitement of sex with someone new. This have me a "license".

 

My goal is not to hurt him or "show him" that is an undesired consequence.

[nightmare01]

Maybe a subtle difference, but I think it's more like "going out and having an affair because you wanted to and using your guy's infidelity as justification."

 

I agree with Jen about this as well. In the same way that I hear many WS blaming their cheating on what their spouse did or did not do.. they go out and have an affair because they want to and use their spouses actions / inactions as an excuse.

 

A question I've seen many BS ask repeatedly is WHY? Why did you have an affair? And the answer usually come across as a bunch of justifications.

 

In reality the WS found someone attractive that wanted to hook up with them, there was little chance they would be caught, and they wanted to hook up. So the answer doesn't do much for a BS in terms of reasoning out why we should stay with a WS who would do this.

 

I think a better question to ask a WS is HOW? How was it ok for you to have an affair? How did you make that decision and be ok with it? And how do I (BS) know that you won't make that decision again?

[Mr. Lucky]

I have always wanted to sleep with someone else. I really enjoy sex, and I REALLY enjoy the excitement of sex with someone new. This gave me a "license".

 

Every married person has these feelings. The question becomes what compromises you're willing to make to your integrity to realize them.

 

Why not talk to your husband about opening up your marriage? You're already nearly there...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Owl6118]

RecentChange, one other thing to reflect on.

 

I am struck that nowhere in your remarks do you reflect on the other Betrayed Spouse.

 

Marriage is a contract between the two parties in the couple, but it is also a contract between the douple and society. The couple by taking a public vow and contract is in part asking their fellow man and woman to help them live up to their promise.

 

It is my view that we have a duty to care for our fellow man and woman. The classic phrase is do unto others as you would have them do onto you, but I would say the actual standard should be even higher: do onto others as you would expect an abstract good person acting in good faith to do onto them. Your duty is to be the living incarnation of that abstract good person acting in good faith in your dealings in the world.

 

Implict in your decisions is a rejection of this broad duty to care. Affairs cannot happen unless an affair partner decudes to contract her scope of human empathy and compassion and responsibility to do no harm. Contract it until it become so small it utterly excludes the other BS. You have to treat them as a faceless nonperson to whom you owe no duty of kindness.

 

So I would suggest that as you think on all this, one thing to reflect on is what kind of person in the world you want to be. Are you a person whose scope of empathy is small, whose definition of compassion or duty is narrow and legalistic, so that you have the potential in you, when circumstances are right and your personal desires dictate, to be an active danger to others? Excusing it in the narrow grounds that you did not enter into some affirmative contract of safety directly with them? Or are you a person who cares enough about others to not to make choices that expose third parties to pain and risk and loss and grief. Do you care? Or are your truly indifferent to potentially inflicting that on others?

 

Know who you really are. And then make your behavior match. And accept responsibility for what you choose to add to the world ar large--love and life, or pain and grief.

[sandylee1]

OP

 

Is your H not able to meet your physical needs?

If not does he know this ?

 

I tend to think that when one spouse has cheated it's never the same again.

[Morro72]

For me at least - Jen's take is spot on.

 

I have alway wanted to sleep with someone else. I really enjoy sex, and I REALLY enjoy the excitement of sex with someone new. This have me a "license".

 

My goal is not to hurt him or "show him" that is an undesired consequence.

I must be missing something here. You're financially self-sufficient, appear to hold your husband in contempt, and like to have sex with lots of people. Why are you married?

[RecentChange]

Couple of points.

 

First - you all obviously do not have the "whole" story as it would be impossible to convey in a few paragraphs.

 

As far a vows and social contracts, perhaps you missed the part about the fact that I am NOT married. Now, that doesn't mean that I haven't had what I describe as a partnership for many years.

 

Regarding empathy - I think I am very capable of understanding that what in have done can cause a world of hurt. ESPECIALLY BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN THERE MYSELF.

 

As to why I have been dedicated to one person for many years despite the fact that I DO very much enjoy "unattached" sex - well, that is because what I enjoy, and how I compartmentalize things does not line up with society or most people's understanding, so for 14 years I repressed it. I would've lying if I said I didn't think about sex with my old F buddy constantly over these years.

 

As for my partner in bed - we have good chemistry, when it's "on" it can be great. Other times - eh, it gets the job done, but not a lot of fireworks. Also, its a bit tricky to make the change from "making love" (which I do very much enjoy, and is something I have only experienced with my partner) to getting f'ed like an animal- I have a strong desire for that at times as well (which I am going to try to express better).

 

As far as open marriage (or partnership). Right now I feel that this fling is over, I certainly do not feel like going out and finding another. At the moment, I have a new catalog of experiences to draw on (to visualize, things to do just a but different, discovered a few new things I like) to work with. It had been quite a while since it had been "up dated" - and I feel that it will "last me".

 

If my feelings change strongly, maybe I will approach that.

 

And as for my partner - hum... "Contempt" yikes - but I see how it could come across like that on here - again, you aren't getting the whole story, just my one sided justifications. I care deeply about him, I love him, and I know he feels the same. He is my best friend, the one that "gets" me the most (even if not 100% given this topic). We have been together since we were young, built our lives together, and have been very much "a partnership" - I am not sailing through this world alone - neither is he. I have REALLY been there for him through some very dark times (I don't think most relationships would have endured). I do feel that (at least before this) I have contributed more than my fair share to the relationship, and at times resented the fact that I have had to "carry" us (both emotionally and economically) - hence the contempt coming through.

[Owl6118]

Regarding empathy - I think I am very capable of understanding that what in have done can cause a world of hurt. ESPECIALLY BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN THERE MYSELF.

 

So what lessons did you draw from having been there yourself? How does that life experience shape the way you feel about the choices you recently made? I am kinda holding your feet to the fire on this point because I sense that your actions are consistent with your sexual nature (and so not a betrayal of yourself in that regard), and I can see how issues in your relationship with your life partner set the stage for them (still a betrayal because of the deceit, but I see the context).

 

What I'm still not seeing is how the decision to go ahead in defiance of the risks and costs your choice to have an affair with this MM imposed on his BS is a good or empathetic act in the world--unless your sense of empathy is drawn back to a very small circle, and you are amoral outside that circle.

[RecentChange]

My actions were selfish and not morally justified. I am not going to say it was "okay" to do.

 

As for the OM's spouse - you are right, I have not lent my empathy to her, and that's pretty ****ty, but is what it is - I am certainly not going to say I am perfect, or always take the high ground. I am a bit sexually and emotionally deviant I suppose.

[Owl6118]

My actions were selfish and not morally justified. I am not going to say it was "okay" to do.

 

As for the OM's spouse - you are right, I have not lent my empathy to her, and that's pretty ****ty, but is what it is - I am certainly not going to say I am perfect, or always take the high ground. I am a bit sexually and emotionally deviant I suppose.

 

OK, that's a big part of the answer to your original question then.

 

The success of your affair was purchased at at price, paid by certain people in the set of 4 involved. I just wanted the full allocation of benefits and burdens acknowledged.

 

Once that is clarified your question is easily answered: assuming one is willing to seek gains by acting amorally, and it does not unduly trouble you to be that kind of agent or moral actor in the world, a successful affair on your terms of reference is, I suppose, quite possible.