Affair improving relationship dynamic? (Updated)

[66Charger]

Just a sidebar comment for one of the things I am always on my soapbox about on these forums.

 

 

This situation is exactly why I always tell young, single men to make their best move and best offer if there is some gal they have the sweets for even if she supposedly has a BF.

 

 

There are a lot of gals like this that are lonely, frustrated and dissatisfied with their supposed "BF" but are too shiftless and too afraid to leave the security of a relationship on their own.

 

 

If some single guy that she found attractive and found suitable that was of an appropriate age for her came along and made her a valid offer, she would have her bag packed and would be out the door in a New York minute and damn her all to hell if she didn't.

 

 

I am not saying that guys should go out and poach married women with minor children and mortgages and car payments for a piece of poontang; I am not saying that at all.

 

 

What I am saying is that if a single guy has a sincere interest in a single gal that has a BF to make her his best offer anyway. At that point it is up to her whether she accepts the offer or not.

 

 

There are lots of women just ripe for the pick'ns just like the OP here and if the right one comes along and makes the right offer she may just jump on it.

 

A million thumbs down on this post. Character is about the things you do when no one is looking. This I would never teach my son.

[sandylee1]

OP

 

Even when you say you're going to leave nothing really changes...but you do nothing about it. There's still no sex and that's a big deal. You need to be firm and assertive when you say this isn't working for you.

 

You can go as far as saying you want and miss (insert all those things like sex /affection here) and that you do not want to cheat on him in order to get those things , so that is why you are ending it. The relationship has not been as you would like it for some time.

 

You're just wasting great years with him which you'll regret later on. We can never get that time back.

[elaine567]

This situation is exactly why I always tell young, single men to make their best move and best offer if there is some gal they have the sweets for even if she supposedly has a BF.

 

....There are lots of women just ripe for the pick'ns just like the OP here and if the right one comes along and makes the right offer she may just jump on it.

 

 

I agree.

 

I do not advocate that single men looking for a lay or out to prove a point, go and poach other men's gfs for the night, or that a single men should intrude into marriages and long term relationships with mortgages, businesses and kids. I am not advocating cheating either.

 

But if a man really wants a woman and sees her as a long term prospect for him, then the fact she has a bf should not dissuade him from trying to persuade her to leave said bf. She may tell him to get lost or she may disappear into the sunset with him, it is a risky strategy, but even if it doesn't work out, at least he tried.

 

Life is far too short to wait around for years until she is "free".

All's fair in love and war, as they say.

[cgiles]

When you leave your bf, tell him about the affair, so he doesn't try to find someone else like you.

[elaine567]

You're just wasting great years with him which you'll regret later on. We can never get that time back.

 

^^^ Listen^^^

[CTRL C]

When you leave your bf, tell him about the affair, so he doesn't try to find someone else like you.

 

I would think he wouldn't "try" anything of the sort and would judge the next girl based on her own merits. Don't imagine many women would put up with being compared to the ex in that manner, anyways.

[oldshirt]

I agree.

 

I do not advocate that single men looking for a lay or out to prove a point, go and poach other men's gfs for the night, or that a single men should intrude into marriages and long term relationships with mortgages, businesses and kids. I am not advocating cheating either.

 

But if a man really wants a woman and sees her as a long term prospect for him, then the fact she has a bf should not dissuade him from trying to persuade her to leave said bf. She may tell him to get lost or she may disappear into the sunset with him, it is a risky strategy, but even if it doesn't work out, at least he tried.

 

Life is far too short to wait around for years until she is "free".

All's fair in love and war, as they say.

 

 

You worded it more concisely and clearly but that is exactly what I was trying to say.

 

Attractive women are never completely free and single. They are always dating someone or involved with someone to one degree or another, but not always happy or satisfied with that person(s). Many will still consider a valid offer even though they supposedly have a BF.

 

Someone is single and on the market until they are not.

[oldshirt]

A million thumbs down on this post. Character is about the things you do when no one is looking. This I would never teach my son.

 

I understand your position as I used to feel the same way.

 

In my single days in my youth I never approached or asked out a woman that was seeing someone no matter how much I liked her or how good of a match I thought we would be.

 

Now that I am a full grown, experienced adult, I realize that was a mistake.

 

People are single untill they have an accepted marriage proposal, a ring on their finger, a date set and deposits down on all the wedding arrangements.

 

Untill then it is up to them if they are available or not. It's real simple, if they decline the offer, they aren't available. If they accept it, they are.

 

At any moment, there are thousands if not tens or hundreds of thousands of young, single women in dead end and I satisfying relationships that would walk the moment they got a better, legitimate offer.

 

As far as teaching sons, yes it is on fathers to develop the characters and morality and ethics of their sons. But it is also crucial that fathers teach their sons how the world really works. The real world is competitive and you either get out on the field and give it your best shot or you are in the bleachers watching other people play.

 

Single is single and single women are fair game. At the end of the day the girl is going to ride off with who she thinks is the better man who's making the better offer.

[oldshirt]

I would think he wouldn't "try" anything of the sort and would judge the next girl based on her own merits. Don't imagine many women would put up with being compared to the ex in that manner, anyways.

 

So what exactly do you mean, "....someone like you"?????

 

I think this guy would be winning the lottery twice if he could manage to find another woman like the OP. I doubt if there are many women in their early 20s that would put up with being fed peanuts for years and still sticking around after 4 years of involuntary celibacy in a dead end relationship.

 

....or at least I would hope not many would.

 

He would be the luckiest guy in the world if he could find someone else that would accept so little.

[DKT3]

So what exactly do you mean, "....someone like you"?????

 

I think this guy would be winning the lottery twice if he could manage to find another woman like the OP. I doubt if there are many women in their early 20s that would put up with being fed peanuts for years and still sticking around after 4 years of involuntary celibacy in a dead end relationship.

 

....or at least I would hope not many would.

 

He would be the luckiest guy in the world if he could find someone else that would accept so little.

 

Two things come to mind after reading your post here 1) I wouldn't think he would see himself as lucky to find another woman like OP. Not because of the affair, he doesn't know about that, but because he is clearly not attracted to her. This no sex thing isn't one sided, judging from what she has posted I see her as the "motherly" nagger who is turned on by that? 2) he simply isn't happen in this relationship and just like OP the fear of change is too much so they both stay.

 

I for one doubt that a 21-25 year old man has been sexless for four years. I don't think its a reach to say that he is having sex with someone. I know OP doesn't want to believe that but if I were a betting man I would bet on it..

 

Also accepting so little is from both sides.

 

Bottomline is this, neither is happy in the relationship. Both are too scared to end it. So that means they are both still getting something from it, and they are both being shorted.

 

Not much OP will learn here that will help until she makes a tough decision to either cut off her lover and throw herself in the relationship 100% or remove herself 100% from this relationship.

[star gaze]

I do believe that if the relationship is not making you happy, and after making commitments, the SO is uninterested or not interested enough to address these issues, you have all the right in the world to leave the relationship; there will always be people, including SO, who may think otherwise. If all the venues are exhausted; it’s okay to be selfish IMO. You should also think about the affair with the old MM; will this ultimately serve you good? The ego kibbles and pleasant time-passing(banters, shared hobbies etc) may deepen the emotional attachment and leave you neither here nor there…this may ruin years of your prime youth; just read plethora of OM/OW section.

 

………………..

I’m just curious:

 

Oldshirt and elaine567, can’t the same thing be said about married women or men?

 

Elaine567: “But if a man really wants a woman and sees her as a long term prospect for him, then the fact she has a bf should not dissuade him from trying to persuade her to leave said bf”

Can’t the word “bf” be replaced by “husband”?

 

Oldshirt:” It's real simple, if they decline the offer, they aren't available. If they accept it, they are.”

Can’t this be said about married women/men?

 

Then, shouldn’t this (if they decline the offer, they aren't available. If they accept it, they are) apply to all the relationship irrespective of marriage or children etc?

 

What makes marriage or children or mortgage the standardized line never to be crossed, and bf/gf relationship any less? Isn’t it the commitment (even made by others) that should be honored, and not the name of commitment?

[CTRL C]

Two things come to mind after reading your post here 1) I wouldn't think he would see himself as lucky to find another woman like OP. Not because of the affair, he doesn't know about that, but because he is clearly not attracted to her. This no sex thing isn't one sided, judging from what she has posted I see her as the "motherly" nagger who is turned on by that? 2) he simply isn't happen in this relationship and just like OP the fear of change is too much so they both stay.

 

I for one doubt that a 21-25 year old man has been sexless for four years. I don't think its a reach to say that he is having sex with someone. I know OP doesn't want to believe that but if I were a betting man I would bet on it.

 

Can you explain "motherly nagger who is turned on by that"? Turned on by what... my own voice?

 

I haven't been arguing/defending in this thread because I've been wanting some real opinions and discussion, not just what I want to hear... the hits as well as the handouts. But I will say that I seriously disagree with that quick assessment of my character. I don't think anyone enjoys confrontation. Why "nag" when I'm a perfectly capable adult? I can pick up the bill too, I can replace the cracked window pane my own damn self, and I can suck up my disappointment that he doesn't want to go to that new movie together. I've seen "nags" in other relationships and that is not the type of person I would allow myself to be. As for turn-ons, they're the same as anyone else's, not some perverted distress fantasy. If I misinterpreted you, you are welcome to correct me.

**Realized that you missed a comma so yes slight misinterpretation in that whole sentence, I've adjusted.

 

As for whether he's cheating, I accept it's a possibility but as I have no evidence I am not going to allow that to factor into my decision. Nothing more to it than that.

Edited July 13, 2015 by CTRL C
Typos

[elaine567]

Oldshirt and elaine567, can’t the same thing be said about married women or men?

 

Elaine567: “But if a man really wants a woman and sees her as a long term prospect for him, then the fact she has a bf should not dissuade him from trying to persuade her to leave said bf”

Can’t the word “bf” be replaced by “husband”?

 

NO, this is not about breaking up marriages and LTRs with mortgages, businesses and kids. I thought I made that clear.

 

Single people are single people, there is no real commitment.

Any pairing up is merely an "understanding" between two adults and as such can be broken at any time, if either is given the option of another suitor.

That is surely what single life is all about, finding the person who clicks with us and rejecting those who don't, in favour of better offers.

 

Once you bring finances, businesses and kids into the equation it takes that commitment to a different place and thus that level of commitment needs to be respected and not messed around with.

[elaine567]

Can you explain "motherly nagger who is turned on by that"?

 

I believe it was a harsh post form DKT3 and conveyed the message frequently expressed that a woman who is in a sexless marriage/RS must be to blame for that, as all men want sex as much as possible, don't they???

She therefore must be:-

Too fat, too ugly, too prudish, too frigid, too naggy, too nasty...

She just isn't good enough to turn him on, OBVIOUSLY.

 

It couldn't possibly be anything to do with him, could it?

 

[DKT3]

What I mean is, I'm guessing the two of you went from living at home to living together maybe with a short stop at a dorm. The way you've talked about the fight, it appears you talk that attacking role and he defends himself. Much in the way that a mother would. I'm only guessing here, but I bet when the two of you first moved in together the sex was much better and much more often. Moving in together is what killed your sex life, the motherly thing could be ONE of the reasons why. Also he could feel trapped and scared to get you pregnant.

 

I share this with you because your relationship mirrors ours. High school sweethearts, went from our parents home to one year apart at different schools the to the same school and living together. I understand his fears, how he COULD see you as a sub for his mother and the other factors that could lead to him not being interested in sex.

 

Now if your goal (TRUE GOAL) is to give your relationship a real shot you have to lay it all on the table, affair included.

[DKT3]

I believe it was a harsh post form DKT3 and conveyed the message frequently expressed that a woman who is in a sexless marriage/RS must be to blame for that, as all men want sex as much as possible, don't they???

She therefore must be:-

Too fat, too ugly, too prudish, too frigid, too naggy, too nasty...

She just isn't good enough to turn him on, OBVIOUSLY.

 

It couldn't possibly be anything to do with him, could it?

 

 

Not at all what I'm saying, not even close.

 

I'm not saying its all her fault, but neither is it all his fault. What I'm saying is they have changed, their relationship has changed. In a long relationship like this where both are undergoing great personal growth the relationship has to grow to keep up. That isn't happening here.

 

They can get back on track and grow this relationship, but it can only be done by having the uncomfortable and painful conversations.

[oldshirt]

I do believe that if the relationship is not making you happy, and after making commitments, the SO is uninterested or not interested enough to address these issues, you have all the right in the world to leave the relationship; there will always be people, including SO, who may think otherwise. If all the venues are exhausted; it’s okay to be selfish IMO. You should also think about the affair with the old MM; will this ultimately serve you good? The ego kibbles and pleasant time-passing(banters, shared hobbies etc) may deepen the emotional attachment and leave you neither here nor there…this may ruin years of your prime youth; just read plethora of OM/OW section.

 

………………..

I’m just curious:

 

Oldshirt and elaine567, can’t the same thing be said about married women or men?

 

Elaine567: “But if a man really wants a woman and sees her as a long term prospect for him, then the fact she has a bf should not dissuade him from trying to persuade her to leave said bf”

Can’t the word “bf” be replaced by “husband”?

 

Oldshirt:” It's real simple, if they decline the offer, they aren't available. If they accept it, they are.”

Can’t this be said about married women/men?

 

Then, shouldn’t this (if they decline the offer, they aren't available. If they accept it, they are) apply to all the relationship irrespective of marriage or children etc?

 

What makes marriage or children or mortgage the standardized line never to be crossed, and bf/gf relationship any less? Isn’t it the commitment (even made by others) that should be honored, and not the name of commitment?

 

Single people are single and have no real moral, financial or legal commitment to the person they are dating. That's what being single is.

 

A married person does. If someone poaches a married person and family is broken up or damaged, other people are harmed.

[oldshirt]

Two things come to mind after reading your post here 1) I wouldn't think he would see himself as lucky to find another woman like OP. Not because of the affair, he doesn't know about that, but because he is clearly not attracted to her. This no sex thing isn't one sided, judging from what she has posted I see her as the "motherly" nagger who is turned on by that? 2) he simply isn't happen in this relationship and just like OP the fear of change is too much so they both stay.

 

I for one doubt that a 21-25 year old man has been sexless for four years. I don't think its a reach to say that he is having sex with someone. I know OP doesn't want to believe that but if I were a betting man I would bet on it..

 

Also accepting so little is from both sides.

 

Bottomline is this, neither is happy in the relationship. Both are too scared to end it. So that means they are both still getting something from it, and they are both being shorted.

 

Not much OP will learn here that will help until she makes a tough decision to either cut off her lover and throw herself in the relationship 100% or remove herself 100% from this relationship.

 

 

I was being sarcastic and tongue-in-cheek.

 

I said he'd be lucky to find another woman like her because no other woman would settle for so little from him.

 

I do agree with you on a few points though -

 

- he surely hasn't been celibate this whole time too.

 

- they are both dissatisfied and ready to move on but both are stuck in their own initia and both fear the outside world and both question their ability to find someone else. Both are afraid to be the one to pull the ejection handle.

 

- she needs to $h!t or get off the pot. The problem is though I don't think this R can or even should be saved. They both need to walk away and not look back.

[oldshirt]

So, I'll start with the questions - has an affair ever rekindled or reawakened a dead relationship? How are you certain that that new vitality will stick with you once the affair is over... Or is it only there because of the affair?

 

The back story is I'm 25f and have been in a relationship with the same guy since my mid teens. At first it was very passionate, we were both caring and playful and supportive, we helped each other through some difficult events in those early years. But as we've... well, I guess grew up... we've been cycling through times of general contentedness, and all-out cat fights. He is much more vocal than I as I tend to just shut down when in these big fights... which angers him further. That's not an attempt to demonize him, that's just been our relationship dynamic for the past few years. There's no intimacy at all either - either physical (it's been 4 years!) or emotional (I don't feel I can communicate about feelings without him getting defensive).

 

So anyways, met the affair partner maybe six months ago. He's fairly older than me - about 40. He's also in a relationship of his own... to clarify I have no illusions about him rescuing me or him leaving her. Right now I'm simply enjoying whatever is going on.

 

It may not be a relationship but I guess you could say he's given me a glimpse at what I'd really want in one - two people who are compassionate, can talk to each other easily, and enjoy each other as they are. He caught me at a time I was in a bit of a self esteem grave and has built me back up by treating me as an equal partner and lover (despite my very awkward bumblings due to said issue when this first started). I'll LOL at myself a little here and say he's shown me what an adult relationship can and should be like... minus, you know, the sneaking around bit.

 

This booster shot he's given me has brought back my energy, my playfulness, and my courage. The problem is that this revitalization has actually improved my relationship dynamic at home just as I was actually feeling strong enough to leave. I've gone from walking on eggshells at home, to actually enjoying my time with the bf, yet I'm constantly looking over my shoulder wondering when that part is going to come back and bite me in the ***. It feels unfair to my bf, because I wonder if it wasn't me all along, but I still worry when this bubble is going to pop and the cycle repeat... a cycle I don't know if I can handle anymore.

 

Just wondering if anyone has had a similar experience and would care to share their story or some insight. Sorry this was long - that's why I put the question at the top!

 

I'm not anyone has directly addressed your actual question.

 

Now that I sit back and think about it, I was in a slightly similar situation (with many significant differences however) it was similar in that we had been together several years and both of us were pretty dissatisfied but still together out of inertia and fear of the unknown.

 

I had been seeing a married woman on the down low with no intention of it becoming anything more than sex and fun.

 

One day my GF confronted me and said she knew I must be seeing someone else because I was happier and in a better mood than I had been in a long time.

 

I sat and thought about irony of that observation and statement and then had the realization that she was completely right, I was happier than I had been in a long time.

 

So on that note, I have been there, done that and know where you are coming from.

 

HOWEVER it is NOT a good sign, nor is it a fix of the problems of the relationship.

 

An affair is NOT a therapy for a broken or dead end relationship. It is simply the final bullet to the head in putting the R out of its misery.

 

A relationship that needs an affair to save it, is not worth saving.

[oldshirt]

.....and as an aside, I don't consider you seeing this older dude as an "affair."

 

I just see it as getting some on the side before you make your exit to stage left.

 

Your R with your STBX is dead. You just haven't gotten around to giving it a proper funeral and burying it yet.

[CTRL C]

.....and as an aside, I don't consider you seeing this older dude as an "affair."

 

I just see it as getting some on the side before you make your exit to stage left.

 

Your R with your STBX is dead. You just haven't gotten around to giving it a proper funeral and burying it yet.

 

Guess you hit the nail on the head.

 

Left the relationship a few days ago. We'd been working on it, he'd really started wanting to fix things, realizing the problems, but... I suppose my problem was that once that spark left, it was just gone.

 

For the record, breakups SUCK. It hurt, a lot, seeing him like that, but it still feels like what will be best for each of us in the long run.

 

Now scuze me while I go nurse this migraine and find a way to stop couch surfing as soon as possible...

[beach]

Guess you hit the nail on the head.

 

Left the relationship a few days ago. We'd been working on it, he'd really started wanting to fix things, realizing the problems, but... I suppose my problem was that once that spark left, it was just gone.

 

For the record, breakups SUCK. It hurt, a lot, seeing him like that, but it still feels like what will be best for each of us in the long run.

 

Now scuze me while I go nurse this migraine and find a way to stop couch surfing as soon as possible...

 

This is a good start. Do you have a way to support yourself? Find a room to rent. Become more independent...

 

Did you tell your BF that you'd been seeing the married man? What did you explain to him? Were you totally honest?

[CTRL C]

This is a good start. Do you have a way to support yourself? Find a room to rent. Become more independent...

 

Did you tell your BF that you'd been seeing the married man? What did you explain to him? Were you totally honest?

 

Yes, I've a pretty good paying job. Have enough saved to get started on a rental but not enough to actually furnish a place yet. I have already started looking around... I'm not a fan of depending on other people (or being a burden) so that's my priority right now.

 

The other guy (not married, not that it really matters either way) has disappeared for the time being, and no I didn't mention him, as I know the reaction would be... very unhealthy. I promise, though, my focus wasn't pointing out the xbf's failures or faults - like I said at the beginning, I'm not here to demonize him, so I wasn't going to put it all on him - but simply that I wasn't happy and felt it time to be on my own. Honest regarding the relationship and my feelings.

[DKT3]

Yes, I've a pretty good paying job. Have enough saved to get started on a rental but not enough to actually furnish a place yet. I have already started looking around... I'm not a fan of depending on other people (or being a burden) so that's my priority right now.

 

The other guy (not married, not that it really matters either way) has disappeared for the time being, and no I didn't mention him, as I know the reaction would be... very unhealthy. I promise, though, my focus wasn't pointing out the xbf's failures or faults - like I said at the beginning, I'm not here to demonize him, so I wasn't going to put it all on him - but simply that I wasn't happy and felt it time to be on my own. Honest regarding the relationship and my feelings.

 

 

He will be much happier in the long run.

 

You on the other hand I fear made this decision for the wrong reasons, maybe I'm wrong time will tell. I will say this, if you care about him leave him alone. You were unwilling to give him the truth about his life and the relationship you shared, opting to leave as "the good guy" with him wondering for months maybe even years what he did wrong or what he could have done different. This will be your cross to bear in the future. Trust me there will be guilt and remorse.

[CTRL C]

He will be much happier in the long run.

 

You on the other hand I fear made this decision for the wrong reasons, maybe I'm wrong time will tell. I will say this, if you care about him leave him alone. You were unwilling to give him the truth about his life and the relationship you shared, opting to leave as "the good guy" with him wondering for months maybe even years what he did wrong or what he could have done different. This will be your cross to bear in the future. Trust me there will be guilt and remorse.

 

I didn't leave for the other guy if that's what you mean by wrong reasons. The other guy did not factor into the decision one iota. I left for reasons that I did discuss with my xbf. He knows why I left and actually filled in a lot of the details on his own. If the other guy had never existed, those reasons would still be the same.

Edited July 26, 2015 by CTRL C