pureinheart Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Shoving religion down the throat of society is when you attempt to force everyone to abide by your rules, even when they don't share that belief. Examples include banning tattoos, outlawing certain foods, banning people from working on Sundays, and anti-gay marriage laws. You'd be forcing the nation to abide by your religious rules,.and that would be shoving it down our throat. Examples that would not be considered shoving it down our throat. Living your own lives by your religious creeds and rules. A church refusing to marry a gay couple. Sharing the message with those willing to hear it. Helping people, offering services or religious counseling etc. Expressing your religious views. Going to church and church functions. Etc. This is exactly what is happening to those who don't agree with gay marriage. We are being told, 'accept it or pay' ... but I suppose that is ok. You see, one cannot say they live by something, force it upon me and then do the exact opposite. This is what I have issues with. Link to post Share on other sites
Keenly Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 This is exactly what is happening to those who don't agree with gay marriage. We are being told, 'accept it or pay' ... but I suppose that is ok. You see, one cannot say they live by something, force it upon me and then do the exact opposite. This is what I have issues with. You don't have to accept it, you just can't make laws that prevent it, or prevent people from doing it. Or discriminate against it. If you want to stand on a box and tell the world that you don't like it, people might not like you for it, but you're free to do it.. Link to post Share on other sites
jay1983 Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 I think westboro should be forced to marry gays. Lol Link to post Share on other sites
Keenly Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 I think westboro should be forced to marry gays. Lol Nah, unconstitutional. Cruel and unusual punishment Haha. Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 This makes perfect sense to me. Like I have said before, I have never actually found the verse that says "Go therefore and be political" or "God so loved the world he created Washington." Well actually there is one (or more). It's in the O/T and when I get the time I'll find it. For now will just describe it so you know what I'm referring to. Back in the day, the people complained to God and basically said His governing wasn't enough, they wanted a 'person' to be their leader. The people wanted 'government'. So God said, 'cool' (I'm sure He was quite offended) and gave them what they wanted- Saul was anointed King of the Jewish peoples by Samuel (?) ... [*disclaimer* some of this could be way off because I'm not fact checking, just going by memory.]. God gives us what we want, and sometimes it's not all that good IMO. Anyway, King Saul tripped out, then King David.. which was cool IMO, then Solomon (and so forth) We are supposed to get involved in government, it's just not meant to trump God. Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 You don't have to accept it, you just can't make laws that prevent it, or prevent people from doing it. Or discriminate against it. If you want to stand on a box and tell the world that you don't like it, people might not like you for it, but you're free to do it.. This is exactly what I'm referring to... should this 'teaching' or whatever you want to call it hit our district, parents cannot opt their children out. Control and shoving at it's finest. It's an agenda. Link to post Share on other sites
GorillaTheater Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 This is exactly what I'm referring to... should this 'teaching' or whatever you want to call it hit our district, parents cannot opt their children out. Control and shoving at it's finest. It's an agenda. There are always private schools or homeschooling. Link to post Share on other sites
Keenly Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 There are always private schools or homeschooling. Exactly. There are religious schools you can send your kids to that teach views that align with yours. Public schools aren't allowed to push religious views, and thank god they aren't. You don't have to send your kid to public school. No one is making you. Plus it's not the schools job to instill values in your child. It's the parents. The school will teach you about the world. The parents have to teach values. You can't just pretend gay people and gay marriage don't exist in public school. Informing some one about a subject doesn't make them gay. Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Well actually there is one (or more). It's in the O/T and when I get the time I'll find it. For now will just describe it so you know what I'm referring to. Back in the day, the people complained to God and basically said His governing wasn't enough, they wanted a 'person' to be their leader. The people wanted 'government'. So God said, 'cool' (I'm sure He was quite offended) and gave them what they wanted- Saul was anointed King of the Jewish peoples by Samuel (?) ... [*disclaimer* some of this could be way off because I'm not fact checking, just going by memory.]. God gives us what we want, and sometimes it's not all that good IMO. Anyway, King Saul tripped out, then King David.. which was cool IMO, then Solomon (and so forth) We are supposed to get involved in government, it's just not meant to trump God. That is actually a gross misinterpretation of that passage and is totally out of context. Yeah, going by memory is probably not good. Bottom line...OTHER people having the right to sin does not violate a Christian's right not to. UNLESS people start trying to: A. Force Christians to officiate sin in a religious setting B. Prohibit Christians from expressing what they believe to be sin There is nothing wrong with being involved in the process, but we are not a theocracy. We were never a theocracy. Also, it perplexes me when Christians expect that a non-Christian is going to act like a Christian. Right now, today, not one single person is prohibited from expressing their religious freedom due to the SCOTUS ruling. They just can't keep other people from committing what they perceive to be sin. That pretty much sums it up. Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 There are always private schools or homeschooling. But why should I have to go down that road? I thought 'government' schools aren't supposed to push any agenda? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 That is actually a gross misinterpretation of that passage and is totally out of context. Yeah, going by memory is probably not good. Bottom line...OTHER people having the right to sin does not violate a Christian's right not to. UNLESS people start trying to: A. Force Christians to officiate sin in a religious setting B. Prohibit Christians from expressing what they believe to be sin There is nothing wrong with being involved in the process, but we are not a theocracy. We were never a theocracy. Also, it perplexes me when Christians expect that a non-Christian is going to act like a Christian. Right now, today, not one single person is prohibited from expressing their religious freedom due to the SCOTUS ruling. They just can't keep other people from committing what they perceive to be sin. That pretty much sums it up. What is the correct interpretation? Sometimes things are just morally wrong and have nothing to do with any particular faith... like abortion for instance. Link to post Share on other sites
GorillaTheater Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 But why should I have to go down that road? I thought 'government' schools aren't supposed to push any agenda? You did? Hmmm. Did I ever mention that my wife and I are secular homeschoolers? Link to post Share on other sites
Keenly Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 But why should I have to go down that road? I thought 'government' schools aren't supposed to push any agenda? I thought parents were supposed to raise their kids? Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 I don't want to get all theological and off topic, but when the people of Israel wanted to be ruled by kings like everyone else instead of just using God's law, what they were basically saying was "we want to be like everyone else. We want to do it our way and not God's way." God let them have what they thought they wanted...and well, centuries of angst ensued. He wasn't putting his stamp of approval on it (just like He didn't necessarily approve of Solomon's 700 wives). The deeper issue was that He didn't want HIS people looking to the world for their solutions, which is what having a human, fallible king was. So one could argue that the whole kings thing is a picture why we SHOULDN'T be expecting government to be morality or conform to a religion. Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 That is actually a gross misinterpretation of that passage and is totally out of context. Please tell me where the 'gross misinterpretation' was.. and it wasn't 'totally' out of context. Actually the gross misinterpretation is on your end... Christians need to be involved, but I will start a thread for discussion sake... I've already been down this road at LS. Link to post Share on other sites
UpwardForward Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 I thought parents were supposed to raise their kids? When it comes to education, parents are required to send their children to school, or apply for permission to home school etc Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 You did? Hmmm. Did I ever mention that my wife and I are secular homeschoolers? Why are you guys home schooling- the schools are secular already. I don't fully understand what you mean GT by, 'you did'... if you meant that I didn't have to with my kids, doesn't take away from the fact that I have grandkids and help my daughter with them... Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 I thought parents were supposed to raise their kids? Wow, this came out of no where... expand on yourself, or is this one of those questions that is supposed to put one on the defensive? Link to post Share on other sites
OpenBook Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Right now, today, not one single person is prohibited from expressing their religious freedom due to the SCOTUS ruling. Horse manure! That Oregon bakery couple got slapped with a gag order in addition to their punishment of $135k. They're being forced out of business and can't even speak up to defend themselves. This will be just the first of many examples as a result of the SCOTUS ruling. It's WRONG. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
UpwardForward Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 You did? Hmmm. Did I ever mention that my wife and I are secular homeschoolers? I am very happy to say that at early ages, I had my children with an extremely nice, well qualified, patient tutor. Not all are suited to do the home schooling. Andrea Yates comes to mind. Link to post Share on other sites
UpwardForward Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Horse manure! That Oregon bakery couple got slapped with a gag order in addition to their punishment of $135k. They're being forced out of business and can't even speak up to defend themselves. This will be just the first of many examples as a result of the SCOTUS ruling. It's WRONG. No one can argue with this It is out there! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Please tell me where the 'gross misinterpretation' was.. and it wasn't 'totally' out of context. Actually the gross misinterpretation is on your end... Christians need to be involved, but I will start a thread for discussion sake... I've already been down this road at LS. I never said they didn't need to be involved. I'm just saying that the important commands Jesus gave us to fulfill have nothing to do with politics. But hey, if you have time after being holy, loving Him, loving your neighbor, and fulfilling The Great Comission, have at it. I am using Scripture. Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Horse manure! That Oregon bakery couple got slapped with a gag order in addition to their punishment of $135k. They're being forced out of business and can't even speak up to defend themselves. This will be just the first of many examples as a result of the SCOTUS ruling. It's WRONG. They are prohibited from discussing the details of the suit. They are not prohibited from sharing their faith or expressing that they feel homosexuality is a sin. You people really need to think. The freedom to discuss a lawfuit has nothing to do with religious freedom. Link to post Share on other sites
OpenBook Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 You people really need to think. No. We need to pray... that YOU never get sued, fined or gagged for what YOU think, believe and live by. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
UpwardForward Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 They are prohibited from discussing the details of the suit. They are not prohibited from sharing their faith or expressing that they feel homosexuality is a sin. You people really need to think. The freedom to discuss a lawfuit has nothing to do with religious freedom. Yet they are prohibited. Is the lawsuit still going? Link to post Share on other sites
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