Is a D-Day avoidable in a LTA?

[RoseVille]

Amen, sister. LOL, I was like "oh I will SHOW YOU stress if you think you are going to keep me in some nice little compartment in your life"

 

Can you be more specific instead of speaking in vague terms like this? Because I'm not understanding this perspective at all. It's not about disagreeing, I truly don't even understand what you did/said... It almost sounds like you were a pain in the ass, intentionally. But HOW?

[WasOtherWoman]

I still don't understand about making it "unpleasant." Maybe it's your choice of words, but I still don't understand even HOW you went out of your way to make it unpleasant for him.

 

I have needs beyond just sex (what it started as), and I've articulated them and he's addressed and met them.

 

I just don't have the "need" that he leave his W... yet.

 

Maybe that is the difference.... you don't have the "need" that he leave his wife. I had a "need" that he choose, stay in his marriage or have me. I guess I am not good at sharing.

 

But - an example of unpleasant. Let's say that MM and I were sitting around at my house one afternoon. We are having an extremely pleasant afternoon. In passing, I mention that I am planning on planting some flowers around the tree by the lake. He says "yes, that sounds great. Let's go and pick some out and I will plant them for you". To me, that is getting too comfortable with him envisioning himself taking care of me, making me happy by putting plants around MY tree. So - I don't allow it and make this little fantasy for him unpleasant by pointing out that perhaps he should plant flowers around his OWN tree so that his wife can enjoy them. As long as he still shares said tree with said wife, he will not be over here enjoying planting things in my yard with me. And furthermore, if he continued owning said tree with said wife for much longer, I certainly would be enjoying planting things in my yard WITH SOMEONE ELSE.

 

As Miss Bee pointed out, this strategy only applies if you are not willing to go along with being the other. I think my strategy was kind of the inverse of when a BW snaps the MM out of the affair on D-Day. I kept him out of the affair fog during the affair.... kept him out of enjoying these little fantasies of this life with me while he still was married. Making it pleasant for an MM to have a wife and a mistress seemed to me like a bad plan.

 

In order to make our affair all about sweetness and pleasantness would have required me to push aside the fact that I was darned unhappy about being someone's mistress. Not pleasant for me = not pleasant for him.

[WasOtherWoman]

Can you be more specific instead of speaking in vague terms like this? Because I'm not understanding this perspective at all. It's not about disagreeing, I truly don't even understand what you did/said... It almost sounds like you were a pain in the ass, intentionally. But HOW?

 

I think we cross posted, but hoping my last post helped to explain a bit?

[Popsicle]

I was not a happy OW either, nor was I happy to be in an A indefinitely. I'm pretty sure xMM wanted an indefinite LTA though.

 

I'm not an expert, but I don't think I would describe it as "the A made him happier in his marriage". I describe it as, the A gave him a nice distraction (only when he wanted a distraction ofc) from the aspects of his homelife that he was unsatisfied with. More like escapism and compartmentalization when you want to get your mind off something. I seriously doubt when he was fully engaged with the family that he was better or easier to deal with, or responded to his family in a more pleasant way. I think he separated the two. If anything, he suggested to me (and his W suggested this too in a FB post) that he was more grouchy and resentful while with them. He sent me messages while he was with them saying that he needed to "get away" from them. Like he wanted to be free to do whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted. As if they were holding the poor man prisoner or something....lol

 

Then again, he could have just been saying that deliberately to win some brownie points from me by making me think that he thinks about me, but in reality has no problems being around them at all. His wife's FB post suggests otherwise though.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Popsicle

[RoseVille]

I was not a happy OW either, nor was I happy to be in an A indefinitely. I'm pretty sure xMM wanted an indefinite LTA though.

 

I'm not an expert, but I don't think I would describe it as "the A made him happier in his marriage". I describe it as, the A gave him a nice distraction (only when he wanted a distraction ofc) from the aspects of his homelife that he was unsatisfied with. More like escapism and compartmentalization when you want to get your mind off something. I seriously doubt when he was fully engaged with the family that he was better or easier to deal with, or responded to his family in a more pleasant way. I think he separated the two. If anything, he suggested to me (and his W suggested this too in a FB post) that he was more grouchy and resentful while with them. He sent me messages while he was with them saying that he needed to "get away" from them. Like he wanted to be free to do whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted. As if they were holding the poor man prisoner or something....lol

 

I really go back and forth on this. I think the sex is making his M more tolerable insofar as the bedroom is concerned, but I think things are getting worse otherwise for him. I think this because his contact while with his W is up, he's ravenous just for attention as soon as we see each other again, and makes little comments that suggest he's getting more and more irritable at home.

 

Something about his M has also left him very insecure and lacking self-confidence. Perhaps it's the sexual rejection, but this dude is uncomfortable and awkward with any sort of compliment or expression of care about him. He's "not used to it."

 

Then again, he could have just been saying that deliberately to win some brownie points from me by making me think that he thinks about me, but in reality has no problems being around them at all. His wife's FB post suggests otherwise though.

 

People who post about their happy relationships/marriages on FB are doing it for show, IMO.

[RoseVille]

I think we cross posted, but hoping my last post helped to explain a bit?

 

I do get it now, thank you.

 

Funny, I do/say a lot of the same things. I just didn't think of it that way... it's not as intentional, I guess. It's more of an immediate reaction.

 

As an example, when I was packing my bags for a trip a couple months ago, he whined that he wanted to come with me on my vacation, and was verbalizing his fantasies of being there with me, sipping drinks on the beach, etc. I pfffft'd, and said, "Oh, you'd like to come with me to DR, huh? Well, you can't, because you're MARRIED. So, I'm gonna go and have a great time without you!"

 

I say it teasingly, but it's still out there.

[Popsicle]

I really go back and forth on this. I think the sex is making his M more tolerable insofar as the bedroom is concerned, but I think things are getting worse otherwise for him. I think this because his contact while with his W is up, he's ravenous just for attention as soon as we see each other again, and makes little comments that suggest he's getting more and more irritable at home.

 

Yes.

 

Something about his M has also left him very insecure and lacking self-confidence. Perhaps it's the sexual rejection, but this dude is uncomfortable and awkward with any sort of compliment or expression of care about him. He's "not used to it."

 

Mine was that way too. It was shocking to me.

[OldRover]

Oh Lord, he will tell you that I was a very unpleasant mistress when it came to matters of him continuing to be married. Remember though, as I said, I was playing for keeps here. I was quite pleasant in all other aspects of our life.

 

How did I make his life unpleasant? I never let him get into that comfortable position where a man has two women in his life, caring about him, etc. If he ever tried to do anything to take care of me, I stopped him, reminding him that he had a wife to take care of and as long as he was doing THAT, i would continue to take care of myself.

 

I think that a tactical mistake OWs make is allowing their MM to get comfortable in his position as an MM. I decided early on that that was not going to happen in my relationship, because in my opinion, he needed to make a choice, quickly. Stay married or have me, but there was no way in hell he was doing both. (I know that all OW's do not feel that way, but I sure the heck did).

 

So - hence the unpleasantness. Sure, he was welcome to dump me at any time, he was not married to me. But since I was not willing to continue to be an OW for any length of time, that would have been fine with me.

 

In my very humble opinion, any OW who is not happy being one, needs to not let her MM get comfortable with her in that position.

 

WasOther, and the others that think this way.... Miss Bee.... Popsicle.....

 

I could make a STRONG argument if one wanted a relationship where you had him 100% then why the heck get involved with a MM? It absolutely makes no sense... just tell him right from the start, there is NO relationship, dating, flirting, etc, until you're single.... period.

 

When you get involved with a MM, you must accept the consequences. It he's on the end of his marriage and promises he is divorcing, then there is less risk, but still some until the paper is signed. It he pretends that he's gonna end it, and doesn't, then shame for believing him. To get involved, and try to force him, make him uncomfortable, humiliate him, etc., what the heck is the point. Just find a single guy.

 

Don't get me wrong, all of the posters here seem like nice folks, and I'm not trying to throw arrows at anyone. But if you get involved with a MM, you certainly must understand the risks and consequences.

 

At least Rose has met her needs with her goals and is happy for now.

[Popsicle]

WasOther, and the others that think this way.... Miss Bee.... Popsicle.....

 

I could make a STRONG argument if one wanted a relationship where you had him 100% then why the heck get involved with a MM? It absolutely makes no sense... just tell him right from the start, there is NO relationship, dating, flirting, etc, until you're single.... period.

 

When you get involved with a MM, you must accept the consequences. It he's on the end of his marriage and promises he is divorcing, then there is less risk, but still some until the paper is signed. It he pretends that he's gonna end it, and doesn't, then shame for believing him. To get involved, and try to force him, make him uncomfortable, humiliate him, etc., what the heck is the point. Just find a single guy.

 

Don't get me wrong, all of the posters here seem like nice folks, and I'm not trying to throw arrows at anyone. But if you get involved with a MM, you certainly must understand the risks and consequences.

 

At least Rose has met her needs with her goals and is happy for now.

 

I don't know why you brought my name into this. Mine is over.

[MissBee]

WasOther, and the others that think this way.... Miss Bee.... Popsicle.....

 

I could make a STRONG argument if one wanted a relationship where you had him 100% then why the heck get involved with a MM? It absolutely makes no sense... just tell him right from the start, there is NO relationship, dating, flirting, etc, until you're single.... period.

 

When you get involved with a MM, you must accept the consequences. It he's on the end of his marriage and promises he is divorcing, then there is less risk, but still some until the paper is signed. It he pretends that he's gonna end it, and doesn't, then shame for believing him. To get involved, and try to force him, make him uncomfortable, humiliate him, etc., what the heck is the point. Just find a single guy.

 

Don't get me wrong, all of the posters here seem like nice folks, and I'm not trying to throw arrows at anyone. But if you get involved with a MM, you certainly must understand the risks and consequences.

 

At least Rose has met her needs with her goals and is happy for now.

 

In my case he wasn't married and I didn't get involved knowing he was in a relationship, so it doesn't apply.

 

I'm not sure if Rose's needs are really met and if she's really happy but that's for her to figure out.

 

However, I agree it might be counterproductive to get into a relationship knowingly with a MM and seek more. But in a lot of the cases it doesn't happen quite as straight forward as that and when you have someone downplaying their marriage and emotions being involved many see the A as a means to an and along the way everyone has a choice and can reevaluate. In my own case, it was never a case of "Look I'm in a LTR, not planning to leave but can we have something on the side as an escape?" Almost no MM does this. That is what makes things complicated.

 

The problem too, like even in Rose's case, is that MANY OW start off saying all is dandy, it's so great, they don't want him to leave, it's casual etc...even when I finally figured out the situation I said the same...then things change and when they do change is when one can reevaluate if you want to continue to be just a comfy escape OR if you want something more. And for those who want more that's one of the reactions they might have, which is to not be particularly compliant with the status quo...MM then has a choice too at that point- realize the OW's discomfort and change things or walk away from it, likewise OW can too. The problem again too is when people invest themselves emotionally in As walking away isn't easy so they try to bargain or do other things to get what they want.

 

IME rare is the OW who proclaims she is "in love" who is truly happy with being a side escape. I've been in the OW situation twice technically, I don't even actually consider one of those situations being an OW, because I didn't consider him my bf, I wasn't in love, and it was strictly sex and I only saw and spoke to him to plan sex or flirt or sext but outside of that we rarely spoke and had no emotional attachment. For me, that met my need at the time for sex and whether I was an escape or not didn't matter to me as I was truly unbothered by his motivations. If there was a dday it wouldn't have mattered to me. I'd miss the sex a little but I would happily walk away from all the drama and never look back. I knew he had a gf when I engaged with him and in that case it was like you said. However, in the other case I was in love and I also didn't know the full extent of the situation which made it very different. I think if one enters a full disclosure agreement to have a MM booty call one might fare better than when MM downplays, say he's about to divorce, or both of you start talking about love or treat each other as bf/gf, I think all of that makes your suggestion far more complicated than you present.

[still_an_Angel]

 

When you get involved with a MM, you must accept the consequences. It he's on the end of his marriage and promises he is divorcing, then there is less risk, but still some until the paper is signed. It he pretends that he's gonna end it, and doesn't, then shame for believing him. To get involved, and try to force him, make him uncomfortable, humiliate him, etc., what the heck is the point. Just find a single guy.

 

Don't get me wrong, all of the posters here seem like nice folks, and I'm not trying to throw arrows at anyone. But if you get involved with a MM, you certainly must understand the risks and consequences.

 

 

 

Why is it that its always viewed that only OWs evolve around MM's life? That OWs must accept the limitations and consequences of being involved with a MM? I respectfully disagree, MMs MUST also work around the OWs life, situation, consequences. Its even harder for A relationships due to the limitations on both parties.

 

 

Maybe, it is easier if the OW or OM is single, but both still have to work around each other's lives. IF the AP is also married, well, even harder. In my case, I am a solo mother who has more kids than my MM, and most of the time its him working around my schedule.

 

 

"But if you get involved with a MM, you certainly must understand the risks and consequences"

 

 

My risks and consequences are no lighter than MM's ones, we both risk our families, our reputations in the community, our professional standing in our individual fields. Yes, MM risks his M but when sh*t hits the fan, its the OW who is demonized.

[WasOtherWoman]

WasOther, and the others that think this way.... Miss Bee.... Popsicle.....

 

I could make a STRONG argument if one wanted a relationship where you had him 100% then why the heck get involved with a MM? It absolutely makes no sense... just tell him right from the start, there is NO relationship, dating, flirting, etc, until you're single.... period.

 

When you get involved with a MM, you must accept the consequences. It he's on the end of his marriage and promises he is divorcing, then there is less risk, but still some until the paper is signed. It he pretends that he's gonna end it, and doesn't, then shame for believing him. To get involved, and try to force him, make him uncomfortable, humiliate him, etc., what the heck is the point. Just find a single guy.

 

Don't get me wrong, all of the posters here seem like nice folks, and I'm not trying to throw arrows at anyone. But if you get involved with a MM, you certainly must understand the risks and consequences.

 

At least Rose has met her needs with her goals and is happy for now.

 

I am partially in agreement with the above. Why get involved with an MM indeed? Agree with that. But - as years of affairs have shown, we don't all exercise the best judgement when getting involved in an affair. I entered into mine with the agreement that my MM would leave his marriage. We had this agreement prior to beginning our affair.

 

As far as accepting the consequences... not so much in agreement with that. If you mean accepting the limitations of the affair... yeah, no, I would not do that. If he is man enough to be HAVING an affair, than he'd better be man enough to keep me happy while having it. If you mean the consequences that the affair may end and I may be heartbroken, then yep, definitely a possibility. And one that I was willing to risk, because he was certainly worth it.

 

There was no forcing going on in our relationship, I just was not going to allow him to live in an affair fog. Really, no different than what most BS do when they find out about the affair.

[MissBee]

WasOtherWoman,

 

I didn't know the term affair fog but I did know what it sounded and felt like for him to future fake or plan things and say things which were romantic but mostly illogical given the situation. While my emotions were strong I was more firmly rooted in reality than he was. He liked to go on flights of fancy and wishing this and that and I was like... Dude.. No. We're not gonna do the whole wishing thing, it's do or do not but it only annoys me if we make grand plans in our minds and no real action towards them.

 

I had no patience for that especially as the A went on. I think the first year of it I was more tolerant and also it wasn't until several months in anyway that I realized that he was not in fact single. But by year two I was over the limitations and didn't get much pleasure from sweet words and wishes. I remember I'd be the realistic one like "Okay you say you're in love with me, if we had met years ago we would have been married already, great, but we didn't meet years ago. So what do you want now that we've" found ourselves" here? You can't have two women forever" and his response was "I dunno what will happen but as of today I want you in my life" it was sweet but side-stepped reality. He would talk about our kids, sometimes refer to me as Mrs.His Last Name and lots of other stuff that was fantasy and just made me pissed off and I constantly had to bring it back to reality like no...dont do and say things like that unless you plan to act on it. Those things were probably unpleasant for him as they burst his bubble and didn't allow him to just let the sweet caress of fantasy wash over him.

Edited June 1, 2015 by MissBee

[RoseVille]

There was no forcing going on in our relationship, I just was not going to allow him to live in an affair fog. Really, no different than what most BS do when they find out about the affair.

 

MM used to refer to being with me as his escape. Each time, I'd scoff. And the last time he said it, I told him, "I am not an escape, I am a real person, this is actually reality, I am here before you, a real person with real needs and wants and I won't let you put me in a box and up on a shelf. I understand your "situation," but when you're here, you're HERE, all in. And in the in between, I need to know you're still there for me, that you care about me. Show me. Or you need to leave."

 

Things made a dramatic shift after that. Granted it's only been a couple weeks, but there's a marked difference.

 

And yet I'm also wondering if he's just doing what I want because that's his only way to keep me.

[WasOtherWoman]

WasOtherWoman,

 

I didn't know the term affair fog but I did know what it sounded and felt like for him to future fake or plan things and say things which were romantic but mostly illogical given the situation. While my emotions were strong I was more firmly rooted in reality than he was. He liked to go on flights of fancy and wishing this and that and I was like... Dude.. No. We're not gonna do the whole wishing thing, it's do or do not but it only annoys me if we make grand plans in our minds and no real action towards them.

 

I had no patience for that especially as the A went on. I think the first year of it I was more tolerant and also it wasn't until several months in anyway that I realized that he was not in fact single. But by year two I was over the limitations and didn't get much pleasure from sweet words and wishes. I remember I'd be the realistic one like "Okay you say you're in love with me, if we had met years ago we would have been married already, great, but we didn't meet years ago. So what do you want now that we've" found ourselves" here? You can't have two women forever" and his response was "I dunno what will happen but as of today I want you in my life" it was sweet but side-stepped reality. He would talk about our kids, sometimes refer to me as Mrs.His Last Name and lots of other stuff that was fantasy and just made me pissed off and I constantly had to bring it back to reality like no...dont do and say things like that unless you plan to act on it. Those things were probably unpleasant for him as they burst his bubble and didn't allow him to just let the sweet caress of fantasy wash over him.

 

I didn't know the term either, as we were in our affair nearly 17 years ago, so no internet forums with which to consult . It only occurred to me recently that what I (and you also as described above) was doing was exactly what a BS does when they try to knock their spouse out of this "affair fog" thing. I never let my MM get into the fog. Sounds like you didn't either.. good for you!

[WasOtherWoman]

MM used to refer to being with me as his escape. Each time, I'd scoff. And the last time he said it, I told him, "I am not an escape, I am a real person, this is actually reality, I am here before you, a real person with real needs and wants and I won't let you put me in a box and up on a shelf. I understand your "situation," but when you're here, you're HERE, all in. And in the in between, I need to know you're still there for me, that you care about me. Show me. Or you need to leave."

 

Things made a dramatic shift after that. Granted it's only been a couple weeks, but there's a marked difference.

 

And yet I'm also wondering if he's just doing what I want because that's his only way to keep me.

 

I think keeping him grounded in reality is good.. and it does sound like you are doing that. I will go and read your back story in a bit, but, has your man said he will leave, or is he saying he plans on staying married?

[RoseVille]

I think keeping him grounded in reality is good.. and it does sound like you are doing that. I will go and read your back story in a bit, but, has your man said he will leave, or is he saying he plans on staying married?

 

He "does not plan on his "situation" changing any time soon, but doesn't know what the future holds." A few months ago, he would have sworn his M was over and done with, he'd lose all desire to even try or care about the M, but still had no energy or strong desire to actually make a change and leave. Now (a month ago, anyway) he's not so sure, sees a glimmer of hope. He left saying he wanted to work on the M, came back a few weeks later, even more invested than the first go. Now says he's still trying to "figure things out, and is going through a rough time, personally and at home."

 

In addition to not wanting to leave his kids, he's afraid (terrified) of change, doesn't want to be financially devastated (their incomes can't afford two full houses, would have to both move into apartments), doesn't want to be alone, doesn't think he's deserving of me. He's the only one she's been with for almost 20 years. It's all "scary and complicated with many moving parts."

 

In short, a very common/typical MM speech.

[MissBee]

In short, a very common/typical MM speech.

 

Welll...

 

At least you know. Although truth is, knowing this doesn't actually prevent emotional devastation once you're attached and should dday occur . That's the part you can't do much about.

[midlifewife]

...A few months ago, he would have sworn his M was over and done with, he'd lose all desire to even try or care about the M, but still had no energy or strong desire to actually make a change and leave. Now (a month ago, anyway) he's not so sure, sees a glimmer of hope. He left saying he wanted to work on the M, came back a few weeks later, even more invested than the first go. Now says he's still trying to "figure things out, and is going through a rough time, personally and at home."

 

In addition to not wanting to leave his kids, he's afraid (terrified) of change, doesn't want to be financially devastated (their incomes can't afford two full houses, would have to both move into apartments), doesn't want to be alone, doesn't think he's deserving of me. He's the only one she's been with for almost 20 years. It's all "scary and complicated with many moving parts."

 

In short, a very common/typical MM speech.

Interesting, as I read this - except for the not wanting to be alone part - it sounds like I could have written it. I'm a MW in A with MM. I think when you've been married this long, it's a hugely difficult decision about whether to divorce. Neither MM or I have any illusions about leaving in order to be together (we live in distant states), but I do still struggle with my D decision (and have been since long before A). Some days, I think MAYBE there is a little sliver of a chance that I could make it work, and other days I truly believe it's just a matter of time. This cycle repeats over and over...that is what's making it even harder for me to decide. At what point in the cycle do I decide, and then will my mind change afterwards? Almost like deciding when to jump off a merry-go-round....

 

Just wanted to share in case this could help shed some light on his behavior, at least one explanation.

[sandylee1]

He "does not plan on his "situation" changing any time soon

 

doesn't want to be alone, doesn't think he's deservingof me

 

In short, a very common/typical MM speech.

 

So he doesn't see a future with you from what he says, because you'd gladly have him and he wouldn't have to be alone.

 

That bit about not deserving of you. .......is a line I've heard from players before. Same as ' I'm not good enough ' 'you can do better than me'.

 

When guys say this, it basically means his love isn't as strong as yours. That you deserve a better love than he feels for you or can give to you. That you can get the love you deserve elsewhere, because he can't give it to you. In this case it's because he's not available due to being married.

 

One guy I loved said something similar and I didn't really understand what it meant till years later. I loved him more than he loved me. I've never made that mistake again.

Edited June 1, 2015 by sandylee1
eta

[Southern Sun]

So he doesn't see a future with you from what he says, because you'd gladly have him and he wouldn't have to be alone.

 

That bit about not deserving of you. .......is a line I've heard from players before. Same as ' I'm not good enough ' 'you can do better than me'.

 

When guys say this, it basically means his love isn't as strong as yours. That you deserve a better love than he feels for you or can give to you. That you can get the love you deserve elsewhere, because he can't give it to you. In this case it's because he's not available due to being married.

 

One guy I loved said something similar and I didn't really understand what it meant till years later. I loved him more than he loved me. I've never made that mistake again.

 

Oh yeah, I got that one from xMM - something like, "I'd like to tell you I'm worth it Southern, but I'm not." Later I realized that was one more instance of him telling me who he was, what he really felt, but I wasn't listening.

 

I'll cut myself a little slack, however, because about an hour later he sent another email backtracking on everything he just said, saying he couldn't give us up, blah, blah, blah.

 

Whatevah.

[RoseVille]

So he doesn't see a future with you from what he says, because you'd gladly have him and he wouldn't have to be alone.

 

He doesn't know that I'd gladly have him, that he wouldn't be alone. Doesn't know the extent of my feelings, either. We've never discussed it.

[OldRover]

I don't know why you brought my name into this. Mine is over.

 

Popsicle,

 

I apologize. I shouldn't have mentioned your name. I did not mean that as derogatory.

 

However, you have posted some interested comments regarding OW/OM threads and you do bring up some good points and a lot of that comes from your past experience.... even if at times we may not all agree.

 

Mine is over, too, but suspect there are major differences, but not the subject of this thread. But I still comment......

[OldRover]

In my case he wasn't married and I didn't get involved knowing he was in a relationship, so it doesn't apply.

 

I'm not sure if Rose's needs are really met and if she's really happy but that's for her to figure out.

 

However, I agree it might be counterproductive to get into a relationship knowingly with a MM and seek more. But in a lot of the cases it doesn't happen quite as straight forward as that and when you have someone downplaying their marriage and emotions being involved many see the A as a means to an and along the way everyone has a choice and can reevaluate. In my own case, it was never a case of "Look I'm in a LTR, not planning to leave but can we have something on the side as an escape?" Almost no MM does this. That is what makes things complicated.

 

The problem too, like even in Rose's case, is that MANY OW start off saying all is dandy, it's so great, they don't want him to leave, it's casual etc...even when I finally figured out the situation I said the same...then things change and when they do change is when one can reevaluate if you want to continue to be just a comfy escape OR if you want something more. And for those who want more that's one of the reactions they might have, which is to not be particularly compliant with the status quo...MM then has a choice too at that point- realize the OW's discomfort and change things or walk away from it, likewise OW can too. The problem again too is when people invest themselves emotionally in As walking away isn't easy so they try to bargain or do other things to get what they want.

 

IME rare is the OW who proclaims she is "in love" who is truly happy with being a side escape. I've been in the OW situation twice technically, I don't even actually consider one of those situations being an OW, because I didn't consider him my bf, I wasn't in love, and it was strictly sex and I only saw and spoke to him to plan sex or flirt or sext but outside of that we rarely spoke and had no emotional attachment. For me, that met my need at the time for sex and whether I was an escape or not didn't matter to me as I was truly unbothered by his motivations. If there was a dday it wouldn't have mattered to me. I'd miss the sex a little but I would happily walk away from all the drama and never look back. I knew he had a gf when I engaged with him and in that case it was like you said. However, in the other case I was in love and I also didn't know the full extent of the situation which made it very different. I think if one enters a full disclosure agreement to have a MM booty call one might fare better than when MM downplays, say he's about to divorce, or both of you start talking about love or treat each other as bf/gf, I think all of that makes your suggestion far more complicated than you present.

 

MissBee,

 

Some very good points.

 

Seems like there are so many variables, it's hard to figure out what is best at times. So often it seems like folks get into an A and it just isn't what they thought.... disappointed with what their lover did, promised, and the way they act. However, that isn't a whole lot different than just dating.... excepting there's a third party involved, which often influences the A.

 

My OW was happy, but divorce was eminent, and that decision was made before the relationship with her... and I even took extra time (a year) to be sure what direction things were going. Also, she did not influence the divorce, (although she tried a bit).

 

I've never been a person "just for sex"... no one nite stands, always some emotions first. It just seems like it's hard to just enjoy sex with someone without "some" attachment.... and if it's good the attachment grows. I was clearly in love with my OW before any sex. (and it was monogamous.)

[jwi71]

He doesn't know that I'd gladly have him, that he wouldn't be alone. Doesn't know the extent of my feelings, either. We've never discussed it.

 

Still on the roller-coaster I see as last week...or maybe it was yesterday...you were done with the bleepity bleep bleep.

 

And its ok. An A is a soul sucking, brain-numbing, heart wrenching experience. One virtually every OW, current and past, would care to NOT repeat again. For a reason.

 

And you haven't hit that reason yet. Its form, for you, still has no shape - its tomorrow or later and as such unreal. You haven't fallen far enough, hit the bottom hard enough, or lost enough to "get it". And that's ok - you are, last anyone checked, human.

 

There is long counsel here on this board that will, and has, advised you, strongly, against your actions. Because YOU get hurt. Some might say crushed.

 

So...my question is simple:

 

If you could script the perfect ending to this A of yours what would it be?

(What can you do to achieve that ending?)