Is a D-Day avoidable in a LTA?

[RoseVille]

Sorry, I thought I'd read a post from you on 4 May, where he said he couldn't do it anymore and broke the affair off in favor of his family and MC.

 

Hey, good luck to you. I hope it all works out.

 

Right, that's when I joined, and that didn't last long. Just starting by reading OPs of threads doesn't get you very far, there are often updates on these things. That's how relationships work.

[OldRover]

I'm inclined to do that. However, he's taken time off work ("sick" but not really) so he can deal with the crisis at home. I don't feel it's appropriate to let him know how I feel at this critical moment.

 

Rose,

 

You seem like a very intelligent person, and have been pretty upfront with your situation, and, for the most part, seem happy with it.

 

You also have the right to change your mind, look for more or different things and to let your MM know what's in your mind.

 

You also seem to treat him very well, and not get involved with his marriage and try to force him or give him ultimatums.... which personally I think that is commendable. He needs to decide for himself what directions he needs to go. Sure, he can get advise and counsel, but the choice is still his.

 

As for where this goes, who knows what things will be like in the future for you, but I wish you the best (as I feel most of us here do.)

 

You know the challenges. Seems like the majority of folks that have had a MM/MW relationship have regretted ever getting into. Not me, perhaps, you too. And the likelihood of getting thru something like this and ending up as a couple long term is statistically very small, but does happen. Mine came very close, but ended because of an issue not related to the A at all, but we worked on it for two years but couldn't solve it.

 

If you get to the point were you and he are a committed couple, together, without anyone else, there is still a lot of work necessary to keep things going. And if you decide that carrying on like you're currently doing, hope it works for you.

 

Keep us posted, a lot of us care.

[WasOtherWoman]

Rose,

 

 

 

You also seem to treat him very well, and not get involved with his marriage and try to force him or give him ultimatums.... which personally I think that is commendable. He needs to decide for himself what directions he needs to go. Sure, he can get advise and counsel, but the choice is still his.

 

 

You are not suggesting that stating one's own wants is equal to giving an ultimatum, I hope?

 

Any choice is always up to the person that is responsible for making the decision. Anyone allowing someone to make a decision for them is entirely unattractive to me.

 

But stating your own boundaries does not an ultimatum constitute.....

[fellini]

My two cents worth:

 

The fact is, it doesn't matter HOW carefully he hides your A from his wife technically. If he has lockdown, that is evidence, if he doesn't have lockdown, then there is always a chance she will inadvertantly see things she shouldn't.

 

Lockdown raises red flags.

 

But then there is something you cannot control. His demeanour when he is around his wife. All it takes is for ONE outburst, one tiny little incongruity and she can suspect. And if she suspects, all your lockdown will mean nothing.

 

In the END the only way to have an affair is to meet up. And if he has to physically come to you, he can be followed or seen by any number of people. Work routines do nothing to save him in this scenario.

 

So if your point is that you do not want DDAY in order for this to last forever, it simply will not last forever.

 

Maybe one day he will decide he can't do this anymore (been there already) and what he might do is introduce just enough evidence to bring about his own DDAY because he hasn't the strength to end it.

 

It's not about what you want, it is about what he is prepared to continue to do, and how much his wife is determined to turn a blind eye to subtle red flags in her life. Something will give that you cannot control.

 

If you do not want a DDAY because of the enormous PAIN and SUFFERING that comes with DDAY, especially being the OW who is completely left to suffer alone, all the while the WS gets his comfort with his BS, then you should probably think about ending this before it ends you. You'll be sitting there in deep depression and he will be hysterical bonding with his BW.

Edited June 2, 2015 by fellini

[Popsicle]

Rose, I really wish that he wasn't telling you every play-by-play of what's going on with his W.

[OldRover]

You are not suggesting that stating one's own wants is equal to giving an ultimatum, I hope?

 

Any choice is always up to the person that is responsible for making the decision. Anyone allowing someone to make a decision for them is entirely unattractive to me.

 

But stating your own boundaries does not an ultimatum constitute.....

 

Was,

Absolutely not.... not suggesting giving ultimatums or trying to force anyone with threats... it just doesn't work.

 

Each has to make there own choices. However, there's nothing wrong with getting advice.... from professionals, friends or SO. But one has to make up their own mind.

 

Also, there's nothing wrong with accepting encouragement after making a choice, especially if someone likes the choice and wishes to offer support.

[Adoraxx]

 

If you do not want a DDAY because of the enormous PAIN and SUFFERING that comes with DDAY, especially being the OW who is completely left to suffer alone, all the while the WS gets his comfort with his BS, then you should probably think about ending this before it ends you. You'll be sitting there in deep depression and he will be hysterical bonding with his BW.

 

So true...

[OldRover]

My two cents worth:

 

The fact is, it doesn't matter HOW carefully he hides your A from his wife technically. If he has lockdown, that is evidence, if he doesn't have lockdown, then there is always a chance she will inadvertantly see things she shouldn't.

 

Lockdown raises red flags.

 

But then there is something you cannot control. His demeanour when he is around his wife. All it takes is for ONE outburst, one tiny little incongruity and she can suspect. And if she suspects, all your lockdown will mean nothing.

 

In the END the only way to have an affair is to meet up. And if he has to physically come to you, he can be followed or seen by any number of people. Work routines do nothing to save him in this scenario.

 

So if your point is that you do not want DDAY in order for this to last forever, it simply will not last forever.

 

Maybe one day he will decide he can't do this anymore (been there already) and what he might do is introduce just enough evidence to bring about his own DDAY because he hasn't the strength to end it.

 

It's not about what you want, it is about what he is prepared to continue to do, and how much his wife is determined to turn a blind eye to subtle red flags in her life. Something will give that you cannot control.

 

If you do not want a DDAY because of the enormous PAIN and SUFFERING that comes with DDAY, especially being the OW who is completely left to suffer alone, all the while the WS gets his comfort with his BS, then you should probably think about ending this before it ends you. You'll be sitting there in deep depression and he will be hysterical bonding with his BW.

 

First of all, dumb question.... what's a lockdown?

 

Also, there may or may not ever be a DDay. And it may or may not be bad, if it happens.... and, it could be devastating.

 

There are affairs where there's never a DDay, and they end anyway. There are some where the MM tells the wife that he has (or is seeking) another woman to meet his needs. (I did just that, and has her permission, I didn't beat around the bush with trying to pretend). I never hated my wife, I just didn't like the situation she put me in and the emotional love was lost. I had more issues with some friends that just didn't understand the situation. I also had some friends that accepted things, whom we hung around with and it was fine.

 

And there are affairs that do literally go on forever... (or at least several years, 30, 40, 50) and are still going on without a DDay. If one wants that, they should realize the goods and bads, and make up their own mind.

[jen1447]

First of all, dumb question.... what's a lockdown?

 

Pretty sure he means total informational security - phones and email accounts password protected with 15 digit gibberish, etc.

[OldRover]

Pretty sure he means total informational security - phones and email accounts password protected with 15 digit gibberish, etc.

 

 

Thx... never heard that term before.... lots to learn....

[jwi71]

Because when a couple agrees to break up, and there are children involved, it's usually the man who physically leaves the house. They're falling apart, and my fear is that it's not really his choice to leave so much as their M just imploding.

 

So here's my problem. And sometimes its easier for us not involved, and inherently analytical types, to see incongruities whereas you, or the person involved may miss - more likely gloss over - issues.

 

Your MM has been happy and going on vacations and then his M is on the brink of implosion and then he's ending it w/ you to focus on home then...well, who knows.

 

I find it odd to have such swings at his home. Having been through a D with two children under 5 myself - and load of emotional/financial issues too boot - something just isnt adding up. Based on my own past, experience on this board and elsewhere - and plain ol' bullsh_t detector. Now, maybe, because we only know what you share and the internet s_cks at conveying nuance, his home life truly does make sense.

 

But from what I have seen over the years, my own life and intuition tells me something ain't right. Its like saying 1+1 = orange.

 

This push-pull is a tried and tactic. Its what you are living now - the roller-coaster. Its not healthy. Love doesnt feel like this. Doesnt behave like this. Doesnt treat others like this. Doesnt treat YOU like this.

 

Be wary.

 

What are the chances of you taking a 10 day break - you know, so you can sort your head out a bit?

[fellini]

First of all, dumb question.... what's a lockdown?

 

Also, there may or may not ever be a DDay. And it may or may not be bad, if it happens.... and, it could be devastating.

 

There are affairs where there's never a DDay, and they end anyway. There are some where the MM tells the wife that he has (or is seeking) another woman to meet his needs. (I did just that, and has her permission, I didn't beat around the bush with trying to pretend). I never hated my wife, I just didn't like the situation she put me in and the emotional love was lost. I had more issues with some friends that just didn't understand the situation. I also had some friends that accepted things, whom we hung around with and it was fine.

 

And there are affairs that do literally go on forever... (or at least several years, 30, 40, 50) and are still going on without a DDay. If one wants that, they should reablize the goods and bads, and make up their own mind.

 

I absolutely agree with you about those possibilities, but if you read all the OP'S posts you will see that is not the kind of A she is in. Besides she is the OW so dday will start on the other side and for reasons outside of her immediate control.

 

I used the phrase lock down referring to any and all strategies of keeping everyone from seeing digital evidence of an affair. The problem is you dont need to venture far in LS to encounter BS'S who started snooping precisely because they found themselves locked out of their spouses everyday toys without meaning to snoop.

[RoseVille]

Your MM has been happy and going on vacations and then his M is on the brink of implosion and then he's ending it w/ you to focus on home then...well, who knows.

 

I find it odd to have such swings at his home.

 

You know, I want to listen to you, but when the gross majority of your posts are just not true and mischaracterizations, I just can't.

 

They haven't been on a real vacation since like 2011. He said he wants to plan one, that his family needs one. He hasn't been happy in his M since at least before the time we started working together, which was 5 years ago.

 

And as I've said many times, he has no idea he "has me" to focus on; doesn't know what I want, doesn't know that I'll be there, none of it.

 

This man is confused about what is going to happen in his marriage. With confusion comes swings.

[RoseVille]

My two cents worth:

 

The fact is, it doesn't matter HOW carefully he hides your A from his wife technically. If he has lockdown, that is evidence, if he doesn't have lockdown, then there is always a chance she will inadvertantly see things she shouldn't.

 

Lockdown raises red flags.

 

Not for him. Lockdown has been his practice since the inception of the cell phone for work-privacy reasons. His clearance would not allow his wife to go through his electronics. She might always wonder what's on those electronics, but since she's never had access and never will, that's not a way he'll ever get caught, nor is the privacy/clearance issue alone going to be a red flag. He also has legit work reasons, again going back over a decade, to be on his phone during non-standard work hours.

 

But then there is something you cannot control. His demeanour when he is around his wife. All it takes is for ONE outburst, one tiny little incongruity and she can suspect. And if she suspects, all your lockdown will mean nothing.

 

In the END the only way to have an affair is to meet up. And if he has to physically come to you, he can be followed or seen by any number of people. Work routines do nothing to save him in this scenario.

 

So if your point is that you do not want DDAY in order for this to last forever, it simply will not last forever.

 

Maybe one day he will decide he can't do this anymore (been there already) and what he might do is introduce just enough evidence to bring about his own DDAY because he hasn't the strength to end it.

 

It's not about what you want, it is about what he is prepared to continue to do, and how much his wife is determined to turn a blind eye to subtle red flags in her life. Something will give that you cannot control.

 

If you do not want a DDAY because of the enormous PAIN and SUFFERING that comes with DDAY, especially being the OW who is completely left to suffer alone, all the while the WS gets his comfort with his BS, then you should probably think about ending this before it ends you. You'll be sitting there in deep depression and he will be hysterical bonding with his BW.

 

I hear you. I do.

[OldRover]

I absolutely agree with you about those possibilities, but if you read all the OP'S posts you will see that is not the kind of A she is in. Besides she is the OW so dday will start on the other side and for reasons outside of her immediate control.

 

I used the phrase lock down referring to any and all strategies of keeping everyone from seeing digital evidence of an affair. The problem is you dont need to venture far in LS to encounter BS'S who started snooping precisely because they found themselves locked out of their spouses everyday toys without meaning to snoop.

 

fellini,

 

You make some good points, and we probably don't exactly know where Rose is headed, and don't believe she knows either. You're right she can't control a lot of the issues, but can be an influence. Personally, I hope she finds what she's looking for, seems like a nice lady.

[minime13]

You didn't read correctly.

 

I said RIGHT NOW, until it becomes unacceptable, not never.

 

No, I read it correctly. You're not being honest with yourself and the reality of this "relationship" here.

[RoseVille]

No, I read it correctly. You're not being honest with yourself and the reality of this "relationship" here.

 

No, you didn't. You're characterizing me as being okay with it "never" changing. I never said that, that's just not the case. I've always said I'm okay with the way things are RIGHT NOW and made it very clear how up and down I am, and that my feelings down the road very well may change.

[minime13]

No, you didn't. You're characterizing me as being okay with it "never" changing. I never said that, that's just not the case. I've always said I'm okay with the way things are RIGHT NOW and made it very clear how up and down I am, and that my feelings down the road very well may change.

 

You should probably take the time to go back and re-read all of your posts and responses to the advice you are soliciting.

 

Someone who is okay with how their relationship is going right now would not come to a relationship advice board and post 14 different posts, either venting or asking for advice, within the span of a month. That is not being okay. You can't be up and down and okay at the same time.

 

You need to be honest with yourself. You're not okay. It is clear to every single person that has given you advice here, but you're not listening. You're re-adjusting what you originally stated, and then back-track to try to get replies that you want to hear. Probably not on purpose, but it's still happening.

 

You're not happy with this relationship, and yes, if you don't end this relationship you will likely get caught. There is no future, so it won't go on forever. This will ultimately hurt you. And please, be honest with yourself about this relationship. You are not happy, nor are you really okay with it.

[jwi71]

You know, I want to listen to you, but when the gross majority of your posts are just not true and mischaracterizations, I just can't.

 

Absolutely take what resonates with you.

But at least read it all.

 

They haven't been on a real vacation since like 2011. He said he wants to plan one, that his family needs one. He hasn't been happy in his M since at least before the time we started working together, which was 5 years ago.

 

I was referring to the post where you reported he said they were planning a happy vacation within earshot.

 

And as I've said many times, he has no idea he "has me" to focus on; doesn't know what I want, doesn't know that I'll be there, none of it.

 

That's on you.

 

This man is confused about what is going to happen in his marriage. With confusion comes swings.

 

Ok...you're gonna hate me for this. Prolly not the best way to get you to read that which is forthcoming huh?

 

He regularly called me "his escape." I didn't like that, because he wasn't mine. He was my reality, and I told him that. He said I was his reality too, but that he still has two realities, and I was the escape from the "hum drum reality and tough homefront"

 

This was not even a month ago (for some reason multi-quote isnt working).

Im not certain Iwould believe his, 30 days ago telling you you are the "escape" to now being truly and deeply confused about his M, is...entirely honest.

 

I wouldn't say MM complains about his W so much as he complains about his entire situation. He's actually made a point of saying that she's a good person, and has noted that I have a distorted view of their M,

 

Here, per you, he admits he is feeding you a distorted view - which is obvious. So please, please take a more reserved stance when fully trusting and believing what he tells you. He's already told you he is whitewashing it. Believe him.

 

He said he wanted to try and make his marriage work, for the kids.

 

How noble. Wait, no it isnt. Its bologna. Kids don't need married parents - they need involved parents. What this is, IME, is setting you up with the worlds most powerful excuse - his kids.

 

He has no reason to lie about what he does with his wife.

 

Sure he does. He doesn't know he "has" you so he feels a need to lie. To keep you on the hook. To keep his escape available.

 

Rose, whether you believe it or not, I'm putting my money on not, I really want a good ending for you. And good ending here is really "minimize the pain". I am not seeing anything that says he isn't simply another bored MM looking for some excitement. And you end up paying the price.

 

Take a step back and use that brain of yours.

[jen1447]

You're not happy with this relationship, and yes, if you don't end this relationship you will likely get caught. There is no future, so it won't go on forever. This will ultimately hurt you. And please, be honest with yourself about this relationship. You are not happy, nor are you really okay with it.

Today 4:14 PM

 

She seems ok to me.

 

Really, telling someone what they think is going a little far. Also again with the post/thread counts and monitoring?

[minime13]

She seems ok to me.

 

Really, telling someone what they think is going a little far. Also again with the post/thread counts and monitoring?

 

I will say, for one, post monitoring alone helps understand the context of where a discussion came from - in this example when I saw two different posts, back to back, that gave conflicting information and mentioned to the OP that it seemed conflicting, then previous posts matter.

 

She has said in other posts that she's not happy - also previous posts matter if you really want to offer good advice. So, that's not really telling her what she thinks anymore than it is asserting what she has said before. Up and down doesn't equal okay.

 

My opinion, either way. My method of soliciting advice is a little different than yours.

[jen1447]

I meant specifically the counting of "14 threads" or whatever thing. Rose herself explained the variations - opinions, mindsets and circumstances change over time.

 

By citing seemingly contradictory posts and claiming they mean sth other that what she says they mean, you're telling her what she thinks and claiming to know better than her.

 

Fair enough on opinions tho, I accept that.

[sandylee1]

Absolutely take what resonates with you.

But at least read it all.

 

 

 

I was referring to the post where you reported he said they were planning a happy vacation within earshot.

 

 

 

That's on you.

 

 

 

Ok...you're gonna hate me for this. Prolly not the best way to get you to read that which is forthcoming huh?

 

 

 

This was not even a month ago (for some reason multi-quote isnt working).

Im not certain Iwould believe his, 30 days ago telling you you are the "escape" to now being truly and deeply confused about his M, is...entirely honest.

 

 

 

Here, per you, he admits he is feeding you a distorted view - which is obvious. So please, please take a more reserved stance when fully trusting and believing what he tells you. He's already told you he is whitewashing it. Believe him.

 

 

 

How noble. Wait, no it isnt. Its bologna. Kids don't need married parents - they need involved parents. What this is, IME, is setting you up with the worlds most powerful excuse - his kids.

 

 

 

Sure he does. He doesn't know he "has" you so he feels a need to lie. To keep you on the hook. To keep his escape available.

 

Rose, whether you believe it or not, I'm putting my money on not, I really want a good ending for you. And good ending here is really "minimize the pain". I am not seeing anything that says he isn't simply another bored MM looking for some excitement. And you end up paying the price.

 

Take a step back and use that brain of yours.

 

Rose, it's not what you want to hear, but this post ny JW is all true.

 

There's so much confusion with you because of the emotional roller coaster and this thread pretty much says, you want a LTA with no dday.

 

You ask If he can work on his marriage while in an affair. Of course he can't, but you don't want him to work on his marriage, you want him to choose you and nothing indicates being with you, other than as a secret lover is a thought for him.

 

He's pretty much said, he can't love you as you deserve to be loved, why are you settling for a little percentage of a man. Love really isn't meant to hurt like this .

 

Rose - I speak to you as I would to a friend, so please don't think I'm being harsh. I'm just being real. Any real life friend who had your best interests at heart, would say the same.

[OldRover]

Rose,

 

I'm still batting for you. I think you are getting some confusing and unfair info here, folks trying to tell you what you think, what you should believe, and what you should do.

 

I could argue to offer some ideas and thoughts.... but YOU have to make up your own mind on where things are going.

 

You said, you're happy with the status quo, and I believe you.

You also said that you may change your mind... that's your right. With you.

You also said he is not happy with his marriage. I believe you. If he was, he wouldn't be with you.

You also said there are still some unknowns... absolutely, and often are with situations like this.

 

No relationship is perfect, and we all come here for advise, ideas and thought on how to improve out situation, and that's what you have done.

 

Yes, you probably need to find out a bit more on his thinking, but if you like, just enjoy the time with him. You'll find the right time to tell him all of your feelings.

 

I hope we can give you support to help you along. Please keep us posted.

[RoseVille]

You should probably take the time to go back and re-read all of your posts and responses to the advice you are soliciting.

 

Someone who is okay with how their relationship is going right now would not come to a relationship advice board and post 14 different posts, either venting or asking for advice, within the span of a month. That is not being okay. You can't be up and down and okay at the same time.

 

You need to be honest with yourself. You're not okay. It is clear to every single person that has given you advice here, but you're not listening. You're re-adjusting what you originally stated, and then back-track to try to get replies that you want to hear. Probably not on purpose, but it's still happening.

 

You're not happy with this relationship, and yes, if you don't end this relationship you will likely get caught. There is no future, so it won't go on forever. This will ultimately hurt you. And please, be honest with yourself about this relationship. You are not happy, nor are you really okay with it.

 

I don't disagree with anyone you said in this post here. Your post earlier today is still wrong, as you actually misquoted me.

 

And thread counting is silly, IMO. Stop trying to shame me for posting.