I told a client "F-you" today at work

[Taramere]

This, exactly.

 

"Professionalism" is garbage.

 

My professional body has a code of ethics which includes conducting oneself with civility, honesty and integrity. I'd never dream of saying "f*ck you" to a client - but if I were to say that, I'd risk finding myself getting disciplined to some extent for bringing the profession into disrepute. I can't see that it would be a striking off offence, but I should think somebody would be having a quiet word with me about it at the very least. And I'm self employed, but my professional status nonetheless means that I have accountability to the public, to clients and to my own profession and its members.

 

I'm pretty sure the same would apply to doctors, dentists and a number of other professionals. A certain amount of civility (to others within the profession and to clients/patients) is an intrinsic part of what it means to be professional. It's one of the reasons that traditionally working in those professions didn't simply require a person to be academically accomplished. They also had to have "good character" - and in a professional context that does indeed mean maintaining civility.

 

If people want to think that's "fake" or whatever else then so be it. I doubt many people would be thrilled if they were about to undergo a serious operation and they heard the surgeon yelling "f*ck you" at somebody.

 

It's only useful inside an organization to non revenue generators, so there is peace on the reservation back home. Those of us that make the money that pays the paychecks of the "professional" people do not use "professionalism."

 

I hope you at least use some civility when you are dealing with professionals who are trying to help you (eg medical, legal, dentistry or whatever else). Particularly given their professional obligation to maintain civility in the most trying of circumstances. I hear what GT is saying. That sometimes somebody tests your patience that bit too much. Every person in a professional position runs that risk of one day running into the wrong client or patient and blowing their top because it's the straw that broke the camel's back.

 

I've encountered clients who cursed at me, and who maybe felt they could get away with it because they know that as a professional I'll get into bother if I respond in kind. My reaction to people like that will be very blunt and assertive - but I wouldn't swear back. If they've spoken in the heat of the moment and are apologetic, I will let that pass. People are only human. However, if the person is of the view that they're authentic and no bs sort of people who can speak to me as rudely and coarsely as they want, then I'll be resigning from acting for them....and they can try to find somebody else who will tolerate it.

 

We are mavericks who are geniune, as opposed to fake, real and in your face. We typicall have stronger, very human personalities that lead entire organizations and give zero F's about the rules, hierarchy or organizational structure.

 

In my time I have encountered some people who are very high up in the business and professional world...and occasionally in settings where you could expect things to become quite heated. I can't remember any who didn't have very advanced social skills that resulted in them being civil and pleasant to deal with.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Taramere

[Got it]

Well, before we go on much longer here, I would like to point out that I'm not "proud" of what I did. It is not a shining achievement in my life to lose control of my emotions and blow on someone. I don't necessarily think it's all bad, but if I had to rate it, I'd put it on the low end of the scale for sure.

 

For clarification purposes, I'm not an "employee" of anyplace, I'm an independent insurance agent which means I'm 1099'ed. I don't get paid until I sell something and if I lose this jerk, I lose my commission too (or what's left unearned.) The job is frustrating, I like aspects of it and dislike others and whether it's for me is still up for debate, but I was very proud of my customer service level regarding all of my clients up to this point.

 

Was it unprofessional? Absolutely! Was it necessary? I'm sure not. Should I have behaved differently? I'm sure I should have. Would I do it again? I hope not; but for one brief shining moment before I realized how unprofessional it was and how much more in control of my emotions I need to be, I felt awesome!! Perhaps so awesome for those two seconds, it was worth it in the end.

 

While I'd like to keep doing my job, if it ended it wouldn't be the end of the world. As I said, it's a thankless job (so many are), I don't feel I have the support of my company (and it's a big company) in fact I feel my company is my worst enemy sometimes, and so far it has cost me much more to work there than I have been paid! If I was a regular employee, I may have been able to use more restraint. There is a mindset in a job and you have a certain feel as you do it. Maybe you feel respected and you walk proudly. Maybe you feel walked on and you carry yourself as a doormat. I am an independent agent and I feel...independent. While I have a district manager, a trainer, a field manager etc who are all above me and could say at any time your career here is finished, they are not too big on the idea of letting people go who work hard bringing in business for no pay.

 

So, to all of you who said I acted wrongly, I agree. I can't just go screaming at customers F-you! I lost it, plain and simple. It was not a rational decision, it came from the heart of my anger and frustration at this guy, the fact he was saying the same to me, and my mindset as I detailed above.

 

Now the aftermath: My manager took me and a couple of my superiors aside in a closed office and told me I can't say things like that to a customer, especially in a room full of co-workers and said it's "one strike." He then offered me a possible chance at a book of business that is a mess, but it's an opportunity for me, so I got the mixed signal that he didn't like what I did but then rewarded me for it. Meanwhile my field manager who was present at the time was laughing. These guys are from the front lines of insurance and they know what it's like, so I'm sure they understand. As Carhill said, it's an experience to learn from. What's important here is I don't do it again.

 

As for the customer, he came back today with his tail between his legs and continued the conversation with me from where we left off, but with a much more civil and friendly demeanor. We both had our dander up yesterday and I could tell he wasn't proud of his actions either. He was likened to the school bully. That's how I see this. I didn't take his crap and he changed. He's still one of the biggest pains in my ass, but it could have been worse.

 

Thank you all for your comments and suggestions. It was a very interesting read!

 

I am not sure what type of insurance agent you are but I deal with a bevy of them in my line of work and, if I was the customer, I would have gone directly to your broker.

 

We had an agent for our company that crossed a line with me when he told me that he would commit to specific business with us as a way to benefit both parties - this was putting him in front of more potential business and it was also showcasing elements of work that I had instituted.

 

He decided on his own not to follow through, not to talk to his higher ups, etc. So the event came and he was a no show. Just that, no cursing, etc. was enough for me to go to my owners and get permission to pull our contract. I was done. I had been in talks with a boutique firm that did a lot of work in my industry and regardless of this being an international firm I was done dealing with his unilateral decision.

 

Ultimately the owner of that firm met with me and we decided to stay with them with new agents including the owner as acting agent. And the owner does not tend to practice.

 

I will not tolerate inappropriate and less than stellar behavior or results from my vendors - which is what you. And as a 1099, I would have had you dropped immediately.

 

Insurance agents are a dime a dozen, that is the nature of the business especially if you are homeowner, vehicle, personal insurance, etc. No agent that works at the level we need would EVER act like this. They would have taken it up the chain of command and regardless of my lack of civility would have not acted as such.

 

So I would say you got EXTREMELY lucky. My advice, hedgehog mentality - keep your head down and just work. Any issues you bring it up the chain and you never falter in your professionalism.

[Got it]

This, exactly.

 

"Professionalism" is garbage.

 

It's only useful inside an organization to non revenue generators, so there is peace on the reservation back home. Those of us that make the money that pays the paychecks of the "professional" people do not use "professionalism."

 

We are mavericks who are geniune, as opposed to fake, real and in your face. We typicall have stronger, very human personalities that lead entire organizations and give zero F's about the rules, hierarchy or organizational structure.

 

I've always been like this in business. No fake crap. No execuspeak. To the point, get the job done.

 

I can recall when I had that international sales job, I had a corporate Amex card I did literally anything I wanted to with. I took whoever I wanted to out drinking, out to dinner, including my friends...went clothes shopping in Milan, whatever I felt like doing. I didn't even keep the reciepts. I was about 25 years old, if I recall. Yet the CEO of the company would parade me around on stage during his company wide addresses.

 

Why would he parade such an unprofessional person around? Because I was the top person who made the money that paid his and everyone's salaries.

 

Professionalism is nothing.

 

Results are everything.

 

Oh what ridiculous bunk!!! :laugh: I work with CEOs, COOs and owners of major corporations and Fortune 500 companies. No one follows this ridiculous advice.

 

Absolutely results matter. There is no doubt about it. But doing it as some gun swinging, profanity using, idiot is not how top professionals work.

 

Does this mean no one curses? Absolutely not. I curse at times, especially with my peers and my boss. But I don't do it public settings, and I sure as hell don't do it with outside vendors, clients, etc. That is just asinine and not needed. Same with any other inappropriate behavior. At some point it catches up. I promise, it always does.

[Arabella]

 

I know,.. she reported it to the "managers".

 

But I think it may have been mis stated.

 

What I was trying to say is an immigrant does not know a culture (especially delicate nuances varying from city to city) better that someone who was born there and had done business there their entire lives.

 

I cannot travel to the UK as an immigrant and tell you exactly what the subtle differences between people from London and Manchester are as they relate to business... and tell you that you are incorrect, while I, the immigrant, an correct. I'm sure I'd be mistaken to tell you people behave exactly the same in both cities... that there are no cultural differences.

 

See what I mean?

 

Having spent several years doing business all around the globe, I'm quite aware of cultural differences. (as well as how Western European advancement in companies is tied to age) I never once walked into a country and pretended I know more about the subtleties of its culture than a native. Yet, I saw many American cowboys doing this. They were projecting American cultural values on the places they visit, insulting locals and it embarrassed me, frankly.

 

I had always noticed people from every other culture were more sensitive to being global citizens, respecting and learning as they visit new places.

 

I guess I'm dismayed to see a Western European person act like a cowboy American, totally misunderstanding the local cultures while implying someone who was born in and did businesses in these cities doesn't understand the same.

 

I held Westen Europeans to a higher standard on this stuff. But the way she just imposes her European business culture on her view of American business culture is sad. Just like the American cowboy doing the same overseas.

 

My post came out of frustration. I apologize for it being a little over the top.

 

You're missing my point entirely. You started making assumptions about who I am, my career and my personality without really knowing anything at all.

 

I've been in the States for over 10 years and in fact hold a degree from an American university as well as an European one. I've spent the vast majority of my career in the US. It's fair to assume I probably know more about the American business environment than the European one. Furthermore, I don't work for an European company, so there goes that. I work for a Fortune 100 company, I have been a manager for 8 years (in three different American companies now -- I have just accepted this new job) and in fact my new position, with a team of 12 technical analysts and engineers is actually a step down in responsibility from my prior one (which I wanted, as my family situation changed).

 

All those generalizations, stereotypes and assumptions that you made about jews, people from San Diego, myself, etc are just plain... wrong. While the general disposition of an area vs another (ie West vs East coasts) may be very distinct, and there may be people who behave in the ways you described, it's a mistake to go into business with those notions. Just like I proved above with your assumptions about me, which were all incorrect. Each individual has a background which may lead them to behave in a way completely unexpected to you. Keeping an open mind about this, instead of blanketing them with stereotypes, is usually a better approach.

 

Why do you insist in turning this into a competition of you vs me, with your ridiculous attacks and comments? Are you simply incapable of having a mature discussion? You've been in Loveshack for about five minutes and act like you own the place. I don't know what kind of forum you're used to, but here we don't (generally) treat each other like this.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Arabella

[loveweary11]

Makes sense.

 

I follow perfectly.

 

The OP had a different sort of situation.

 

Also, different ways of interacting with people hold true in different cultures.

 

You Europeans, bless your hearts, are all quite polite and professional literally all the time and are all siding with each other in this thread, which makes complete sense due to your world view. Yes, I can tell you aren't American either... "strikable offence" gave it away.

 

I understand the idealism in your culture overall. It's a nice thing. Out of everyone on Earth, I prefer you all to even my own countrymen. I can't think of a thing wrong with any of you and I'll be back over in a couple years to live for a while.

 

However, I think we are comparing Apples to Androids here.

 

Doing business in NY is unique. It's rough and dirty. It's not nice. It's dog eat dog and you'll lose your shirt if not prepared for it. I lost mine at first too.

 

 

 

Regarding our Spanish manager, I'll refer her to Kenmore's post regarding the outcome of the situation. It was precisely what I said it would be:

 

"As for the customer, he came back today with his tail between his legs and continued the conversation with me from where we left off, but with a much more civil and friendly demeanor."

 

 

So, you Europeans can certainly pontificate about American culture, but clearly, since I predicted the outcome before it happened, I know it a lot better.

 

Naturally, we are all experts in our birth culture.

 

My professional body has a code of ethics which includes conducting oneself with civility, honesty and integrity. I'd never dream of saying "f*ck you" to a client - but if I were to say that, I'd risk finding myself getting disciplined to some extent for bringing the profession into disrepute. I can't see that it would be a striking off offence, but I should think somebody would be having a quiet word with me about it at the very least. And I'm self employed, but my professional status nonetheless means that I have accountability to the public, to clients and to my own profession and its members.

 

I'm pretty sure the same would apply to doctors, dentists and a number of other professionals. A certain amount of civility (to others within the profession and to clients/patients) is an intrinsic part of what it means to be professional. It's one of the reasons that traditionally working in those professions didn't simply require a person to be academically accomplished. They also had to have "good character" - and in a professional context that does indeed mean maintaining civility.

 

If people want to think that's "fake" or whatever else then so be it. I doubt many people would be thrilled if they were about to undergo a serious operation and they heard the surgeon yelling "f*ck you" at somebody

 

 

In my time I have encountered some people who are very high up in the business and professional world...and occasionally in settings where you could expect things to become quite heated. I can't remember any who didn't have very advanced social skills that resulted in them being civil and pleasant to deal with.

 

 

^^^^^^ In NY, knowing how to spar with people in business IS an advanced social skill. Any of you that don't know how to do it would be eaten alive there.

 

Of course I know how to be fake and "professional." Being real put me way ahead of the pack. Later, in NY, I learned how to spar with people in business. This is 3 social skills beyond "professionalism."

[loveweary11]

You're missing my point entirely. You started making assumptions about who I am, my career and my personality without really knowing anything at all.

 

I've been in the States for over 10 years and in fact hold a degree from an American university as well as an European one. I've spent the vast majority of my career in the US. It's fair to assume I probably know more about the American business environment than the European one. Furthermore, I don't work for an European company, so there goes that. I work for a Fortune 100 company, I have been a manager for 8 years (in three different American companies now -- I have just accepted this new job) and in fact my new position, with a team of 12 technical analysts and engineers is actually a step down in responsibility from my prior one (which I wanted, as my family situation changed).

 

All those generalizations, stereotypes and assumptions that you made about jews, people from San Diego, myself, etc are just plain... wrong. While the general disposition of an area vs another (ie West vs East coasts) may be very distinct, and there may be people who behave in the ways you described, it's a mistake to go into business with those notions. Just like I proved above with your assumptions about me, which were all incorrect. Each individual has a background which may lead them to behave in a way completely unexpected to you. Keeping an open mind about this, instead of blanketing them with stereotypes, is usually a better approach.

 

Why do you insist in turning this into a competition of you vs me, with your ridiculous attacks and comments? Are you simply incapable of having a mature discussion? You've been in Loveshack for about five minutes and act like you own the place. I don't know what kind of forum you're used to, but here we don't (generally) treat each other like this.

 

And you've been in the States for 5 mins and you act like you own the place. Same argument I'm making.

 

But ok. I did personally attack you and I apologize. This is now my second apology... didn't notice the earlier one? I saw you quickly reported my post to the managers as well. I would assume no less. Practiced what you preached. Hierarchy.

 

I'm disengaging because I don't have the time. My generalizations about NY Jews, San Diego *especially* (very nice to your face, stab you in the back in SanD, NY tells you like it is), NY and Boston are spot on.

 

You can't refute them.

 

I could go on and on about my life, my education, everyone I employ, how great I am, but I left all that nonsense years ago and am not going to get into a contest about it on loveshack. (hint, i'd win)

 

So accept my apologies for the personal attack. Im going my own way now... take care.

[jay1983]

Love, you run your own company though, am I right?

 

That's much different than working for somebody. You pretty much make the rules and know what you can and can't get away with.

[Taramere]

You Europeans, bless your hearts, are all quite polite and professional literally all the time and are all siding with each other in this thread, which makes complete sense due to your world view. Yes, I can tell you aren't American either... "strikable offence" gave it away.

 

I understand the idealism in your culture overall. It's a nice thing. Out of everyone on Earth, I prefer you all to even my own countrymen. I can't think of a thing wrong with any of you and I'll be back over in a couple years to live for a while.

 

However, I think we are comparing Apples to Androids here.

 

Doing business in NY is unique. It's rough and dirty. It's not nice. It's dog eat dog and you'll lose your shirt if not prepared for it. I lost mine at first too.

 

I had a pretty close friend who's a born and bred New Yorker and works in a tough field. Very much conforms to a lot of the stereotypes about New Yorkers. I know that at times he has run into problems (in New York) as a result of behaving in ways other people found offensive. Sometimes he'd write to me about it and say "how do you reckon I should handle this?" and I'd give feedback. I've visited New York a few times, and I've encountered some of the in-your-face attitude, but I can encounter plenty of that where I live too. I'm not going to be phased or shocked if somebody swears at me. Like Got It, I'm not exactly a curse free zone in my private life. But it's not how I conduct my working life.

 

An old boss of mine is very much about being, as he put it, "rough and tough." He despised as soft anybody who didn't behave in the same way. I can recall standing in his office saying to him "let's get this clear. Are you disciplining me for not swearing at work?" He said "well, when you put it that way it sounds ****ing ridiculous." Yeah, I said, that's because it is ridiculous.

 

To this day, I get clients from that guy. I don't mean he sends them to me. They leave in dissatisfaction, and some of them come to me. And these aren't nightmare clients who you would want rid of. They're nice people, who pay their bills on time and are pleasant to work with. When I was working in that place, I remember one time leaving the office at the end of the day. As I passed reception I saw a well dressed man ranting about having been kept waiting by my boss - and "forget the appointment, I'll go elsewhere."

 

I introduced myself, explained that I was very junior but that if he didn't mind that I was happy to see him for his preliminary appointment. Surprisingly, he didn't mind. The idea was that he would see my boss the next time. He did, but then said he insisted on being returned to me as he wasn't impressed by the boss.

 

So I ended up with this quite wealthy client and a case that I was a bit out of my depth in to be honest...but the client was determined to stick with me, and when I left to work elsewhere he wanted to leave with me because he was more impressed by my attitude than by that of my boss. I appreciate that I don't live and work in New York, but I would be pretty surprised if absolutely everybody in New York takes a cut throat, curse-laden approach to their work. The ones who don't are probably going to want to deal with businesses and professionals who don't.

 

From my perspective, the nice and polite clients are the ones I want. We have plenty of people in my town who are highly aggressive in their approach. I don't want those people as clients. Even if they're wealthy. They wouldn't want me representing them either. So what happens is that they go to somebody who will charge them far more (in some cases twice as much) as I charge my clients. Because if you've got a list of clients who you don't really like as people, and who give you a massive headache, you're going to start bumping up your prices. Not because you're good, necessarily, but because you hate what you do for a living and so you'd better be paid damn well for it.

 

Business doesn't have to be like that. It's a question of doing business, as much as you can, with clients you like and trust - and who feel likewise.

 

 

"As for the customer, he came back today with his tail between his legs and continued the conversation with me from where we left off, but with a much more civil and friendly demeanor."

 

 

So, you Europeans can certainly pontificate about American culture, but clearly, since I predicted the outcome before it happened, I know it a lot better.

 

Again, that guy Kenmore is talking about just isn't somebody I would want as a client. Coming back with his tail between his legs or not....it's only a matter of time before he's going to start causing problems and headaches. I'd get shot of him...but I wouldn't do it by telling him "f*ck you." I'd just tell him that I wasn't prepared to act for him any more.

 

I've met a few lawyers from the East Coast of the USA. One was working on the West Coast. We got chatting when I visited there some years back. Certainly she said that she found people on the East Coast more direct and aggressive, and she felt a bit more comfortable with that. I didn't get the impression that direct and aggressive translated as cursing and swearing in the course of her business though. It's perfectly possible to be direct and even aggressive without losing your professionalism.

 

 

Of course I know how to be fake and "professional." Being real put me way ahead of the pack. Later, in NY, I learned how to spar with people in business. This is 3 social skills beyond "professionalism."

 

Anybody can spar. Come back to me when you've helped mediate and resolve a hostile dispute where one of the sparring parties is a global brand.

[Haydn]

And you've been in the States for 5 mins and you act like you own the place. Same argument I'm making.

 

But ok. I did personally attack you and I apologize. This is now my second apology... didn't notice the earlier one? I saw you quickly reported my post to the managers as well. I would assume no less. Practiced what you preached. Hierarchy.

 

I'm disengaging because I don't have the time. My generalizations about NY Jews, San Diego *especially* (very nice to your face, stab you in the back in SanD, NY tells you like it is), NY and Boston are spot on.

 

You can't refute them.

 

I could go on and on about my life, my education, everyone I employ, how great I am, but I left all that nonsense years ago and am not going to get into a contest about it on loveshack. (hint, i'd win)

 

So accept my apologies for the personal attack. Im going my own way now... take care.

 

Err, you do bang on about some of these things mate.

 

But i do agree in part that doing business in different cultures requires different approaches. Moscow can be interesting......

 

And customer service in `Tower Hamlets` is a minefield.

 

But i`ve never told anyone to ......off in my job.

 

(Maybe once but she was rather special, Miss Campbell as i recall but she did start it)

[Fugu]

Love, you run your own company though, am I right?

 

That's much different than working for somebody. You pretty much make the rules and know what you can and can't get away with.

 

Different role, and different field. The insurance / financial services field is extremely conservative. You just can't get away with blowing your top repeatedly. It's just out of place to do something like that. It's sort of like the difference between what's acceptable behavior in the UFC or the NFL, and what's acceptable at Wimbledon or The Masters. Definitely a different crowd.

[Arabella]

Err, you do bang on about some of these things mate.

 

But i do agree in part that doing business in different cultures requires different approaches. Moscow can be interesting......

 

And customer service in `Tower Hamlets` is a minefield.

 

But i`ve never told anyone to ......off in my job.

 

(Maybe once but she was rather special, Miss Campbell as i recall but she did start it)

 

Nobody argued that there are not cultural differences to be aware of. I argued that using stereotypes to approach these interactions can be harmful because you make assumptions that may turn out to be incorrect.

 

Point in case, he made assumptions about who I am, how long I have been doing business in the US, and what kind of manager I am. All wrong assumptions... and that's the only reason why I even mentioned anything about my accomplishments.

 

Apologies don't mean anything when you still try to find a backhanded way to "win" an argument and make yourself sound superior. Ugh.

[acrosstheuniverse]

Man, nobody in my field would last a minute in their job if they told a client to F off. Seriously unprofessional and rude. Sometimes we get pushed to the brink, especially if stressed out or having personal problems, but it's one thing to snap and then regret, apologise and own up to the fact that your professionalism slipped but quite another to be almost proud of it.

 

To people saying 'well you don't know what it's like in my line of work etc.' I worked in a high category male jail for a while and still managed to keep my cool and never swear at anyone, even when being directly sworn at or threatened. It's about removing yourself mentally, not stooping to the person's level, and simply walking away or assertively telling the person the conversation will only proceed once they're calm.

 

I like what another poster said, nothing commands respect like a simple 'we are done here' and walking away. That would leave people with the right idea... hearing a colleague tell a customer or client (and I've worked in sales too) that would make me seriously question their ability to work in client-facing roles.

 

Clients, customers, colleagues, bosses, your family, your kids, general human beings around you will all push you from time to time. It's a skill to know how to handle it and keep your cool head on and stay in control. Not having a go at you OP, I'm sure that you had your reasons. But it might be worth looking at those reasons to stop it ever happening again. You could easily lose your job in a heartbeat.

[Taramere]

To people saying 'well you don't know what it's like in my line of work etc.' I worked in a high category male jail for a while and still managed to keep my cool and never swear at anyone, even when being directly sworn at or threatened..

 

Yeah...I'm really curious to know which professions/areas of business the "f*ck you" approach would be considered appropriate in, in New York.

 

Sales, maybe?

 

[Arabella]

Yeah...I'm really curious to know which professions/areas of business the "f*ck you" approach would be considered appropriate in, in New York.

 

Sales, maybe?

 

 

That's my guess. Most of the really successful salespeople I've met were quite loud and obnoxious. Often, it was part of what made them successful at what they did!

 

Of course, no other professional would dream of behaving that way... It's the reason why most sales people are found to be a "necessary evil"... nobody likes them, but they're useful within their limited area of expertise.

[kenmore]

Yes, there's no question that some of what happened is caused by what has been going on in my life lately and it's no excuse, it's what I am discovering in my soul searching. The problem is I find new things daily in my soul searching so as soon as I figure one out, another manifests.

 

What I'm realizing about myself is I'm struggling with emotional problems I have never had in my life before and I'm finding it harder and harder to keep my emotions in check. I have always been a very cool person. This is the first time I have ever in my life actually lost it on a customer of any kind, and the reason I posted this was because it surprised me (at least that's why I think I posted it, I'm not completely sure.) It's worrying me. I'm feeling a bit like I'm at my wits end in every aspect.

 

If I did it because it was a matter of course for me due to my "type of clientele" or I felt I would get ahead by acting that way, then it would have been a rational decision. No, nothing so dramatic. I just lost it.

 

I'm trying hard to make a completely new life for myself at 54 years old. All of my friends are dead or moved away and all I have is myself to look toward and now I don't know now that I can even trust myself to be rational. I needed an outlet and all I needed was one jerk shouting profanities in my ear on the phone to set me off. It was an eye opener.

 

Before you start telling me to seek professional help (and I know it's coming), know I'm in debt, have worked hard to start this career and it's slow going, see marketing dollars going out the window and have yet to see any serious return from it, so no, I really can't afford to spend hundreds more dollars and hours a week seeing a shrink. What I need is to see something positive in my life...just one thing!

 

I'm not looking for advice, sympathy nor encouragement, I am looking for an outlet for this pent up frustration so I can release it slowly and not let it out on a poor dickhead who deserves to be slapped, but should be coddled because he can't hold on to his money for two days while the bank delays his payment, poor baby! Maybe I need to reflect that he's just as frustrated and angry as I am, and maybe instead of retaliating, I should be the one thing that goes right in his life. What I don't understand is that's what I was trying to do.

 

I don't need a regiment of people to tell me I screwed up. I don't need people to give me high fives. I need to finish building this callus around my heart and become a human again. I need to see that I'm surrounded by positive things even though I know they're there. To get my feet back on the Earth and deal with life like I always have in the past.

 

I appreciate what everyone has said regardless of whether it was positive toward me or negative (or not toward me at all) and mostly for having a place to vent. Please wish me luck.

 

Ken

[TaraMaiden2]

.... I am looking for an outlet for this pent up frustration so I can release it slowly and not let it out on a poor dickhead who deserves to be slapped, but should be coddled because he can't hold on to his money for two days while the bank delays his payment, poor baby!

I'm going to stick my neck out and suggest seriously, that you investigate what Buddhism has to say about this.

 

Read up on 'The Art of Happiness' 'The Heart of the Buddha's Teaching' and how Matthieu Picard has officially been nominated as the World's Happiest Man (Former Molecular Biologist turned Buddhist Monk).

 

 

Maybe I need to reflect that he's just as frustrated and angry as I am, and maybe instead of retaliating, I should be the one thing that goes right in his life. What I don't understand is that's what I was trying to do.

 

Right Thinking.

Wrong Method.

I don't need a regiment of people to tell me I screwed up. I don't need people to give me high fives. I need to finish building this callus around my heart and become a human again. I need to see that I'm surrounded by positive things even though I know they're there. To get my feet back on the Earth and deal with life like I always have in the past.

The problem is, you CAN see it. You're just not giving it the Right kind of Attention.

[Taramere]

What I'm realizing about myself is I'm struggling with emotional problems I have never had in my life before and I'm finding it harder and harder to keep my emotions in check. I have always been a very cool person. This is the first time I have ever in my life actually lost it on a customer of any kind, and the reason I posted this was because it surprised me (at least that's why I think I posted it, I'm not completely sure.) It's worrying me. I'm feeling a bit like I'm at my wits end in every aspect.

 

I can relate. I have been very prone to anxiety lately - and it makes it far less easy for me to keep a cool demeanour in situations where I'm really expected to portray exactly that.

 

One of the things I've looked into is hypnotherapy. Obviously sessions are costly, but if you pinpoint your main problem, you could get a hypnotherapy CD (eg for relaxing, reducing stress etc) very cheaply. There are a lot of self help tools out there, and some of them are extremely good.

 

Does your employer provide any sort of private counselling service? From what you're saying, it's clear that you need to start building up a bit of a support network...and I think that taking proactive steps to tackle the emotional problems you're experiencing will be of great assistance in helping you to do that.

[lgspot]

What I'm realizing about myself is I'm struggling with emotional problems I have never had in my life before and I'm finding it harder and harder to keep my emotions in check. I have always been a very cool person. This is the first time I have ever in my life actually lost it on a customer of any kind, and the reason I posted this was because it surprised me (at least that's why I think I posted it, I'm not completely sure.) It's worrying me. I'm feeling a bit like I'm at my wits end in every aspect.

 

I'm trying hard to make a completely new life for myself at 54 years old. All of my friends are dead or moved away and all I have is myself to look toward and now I don't know now that I can even trust myself to be rational.

 

What I need is to see something positive in my life...just one thing!

Ken

 

Hang in there Ken. You'll be fine.

Your STBXW did a great job of getting into your head and rearranging.

As you said, you're feeling emotions you've never experienced before.

Time will help. Much of this is new and raw.

It's just a few days past moving some of your belongings.

One minute she's fussing over your finger and the next she's turning your world upside down. A mind-f*** to the very last minute.

It's no small wonder someone with a $hiTTy attitude would get under your skin.

 

I think your world will look a lot brighter when the lady accepts your date.

Would that be positive enough???

[acrosstheuniverse]

Ken,

 

It takes so much strength to be able to admit when you were wrong and even more to look deep inside yourself and recognise when you have emotional problems that need working in so kudos for that. We all make mistakes. Maybe it takes something like this to be a wake up call, stress can make people snap a lot more easily than they would otherwise have done!

 

I'm sorry you don't feel there's any help available without paying, it really saddens me as a Brit to hear of you guys going without treatment for anything when you can't afford it, Lord knows the NHS has saved me life at times when I have been too poor to fill my car up let alone pay for medical treatment or talking therapy.

 

Are there any support groups in your area? Free community led stress or anger courses? Failing that, perhaps a two pronged approach you can do yourself for cheap might help: maybe taking up a sport to let your anger out like kick boxing or martial arts might help you alongside learning techniques that can help you to take a step back like diaphragmatic breathing and mindfulness, so you can utilise them when things are getting to you at work.

 

You mention needing something positive in your life, ever thought about volunteering? If you find an area you're really passionate about it can give back so much more than you put in, increase your self confidence, help you meet people and gain experience in other fields. Sometimes helping others can be a massive boost to our own mood, I know even when I've had dark times in my life that finishing a voluntary shift and knowing I helped someone leaves me on cloud nine for a while.

 

It's interesting you mention that maybe instead of taking it out on this guy you should look at why he's acting that way; my time spent volunteering with people with poor mental health and substance abuse/offending backgrounds made me realise that none of us have any idea what is going on in someone else's head at any time. So when people act badly, I try remember we don't know why they are feeling so bad that it comes out. Yes, sometimes people are just jerks but on the whole it helps to try feel the compassion first before the rage, my friends comment on how when someone is a jerk to us in public, it's usually me that remains calm and tries to reason and empathise rather than go on the offensive and 99% of the time it neutralises the situation quickly and prevents it from escalating. I'm not a pushover but when someone is acting outta line and you approach it from a concerned rather than indignant attitude it can help to calm things right down. I recall working in a bank once trying my best to be perky and friendly when a customer asked me why I had a face like a wet weekend and I should cheer up a little, my mum had died three days earlier and I am sure if he'd known that he wouldn't have said what he did lol.

 

Sorry to hear how rough things are. There is support here for you while you sort things out.

[SycamoreCircle]

So sorry you're feeling dissatisfied with your life. Someone else suggested investigating Buddhism. That -ism can be a large and challenging threshold to poke around in, especially as it has so many preconceived notions.

 

I wanted to suggest the Tao Te Ching by Lao Tzu. It's a small book with very simple, engaging passages. It really puts my mind at ease and tilts the way I see things. I like to sometimes take just one passage, read it, and roll it around like a complex wine. I think, sometimes when things feel radically amiss in our lives, the gentlest tilt of perspective can balance us. Also, check out on YouTube the lectures of Alan Watts. He may or may not be your cup of tea.

[TaraMaiden2]

So sorry you're feeling dissatisfied with your life. Someone else suggested investigating Buddhism. That -ism can be a large and challenging threshold to poke around in, especially as it has so many preconceived notions.

 

Yes, that's why I intentionally indicated specific literature. (What do you mean by 'preconceived notions'...? )

[Toodaloo]

I had never been rude to a customer in my life until I got my current job in the morning...

 

Now we hang up, tell our customers to F off etc.

 

Mind you there is a very long standing relationship there and no one can do what we do, as quickly as we can do it, for the price we do it. At Christmas we get loads of booze etc! We are also very good to them when we can be and help them out of sticky situations.

[Got it]

I had never been rude to a customer in my life until I got my current job in the morning...

 

Now we hang up, tell our customers to F off etc.

 

Mind you there is a very long standing relationship there and no one can do what we do, as quickly as we can do it, for the price we do it. At Christmas we get loads of booze etc! We are also very good to them when we can be and help them out of sticky situations.

 

I just don't see the need. It's like a toxic relationship. If you are at a point that you need to say "f you" to each other then it should just end.

 

I don't know, maybe these are just core difference. I just don't think it is acceptable to say "f you" to anyone. To me it's like using calling some one c%%t, etc. It is hitting very below the belt.

[kenmore]

Sorry to hear how rough things are. There is support here for you while you sort things out.

 

Like it or not, you guys are my support group! :-P I appreciate you all!

[kenmore]

It has been three days since I cussed a customer out, I'm so proud lol!

 

Seriously, I have done more soul searching than usual. Yeah, lgspot, if she would have said yes that would have been good enough but do you know what has also been good enough? Finding people here who care. Okay, having a woman in my arms would have been awesome, but you all brought tears to my eyes and that's not easy. It used to be impossible but life will break you down.

 

I really do want to thank those who were supportive. I know it's not easy to support a hothead. I'm hoping some of you know I'm not usually that, but obviously I'm a loose cannon. Who knows, I could blow on anybody at any time!

 

I'm not going to go on about how I have learned a valuable lesson and have changed my ways because I have had past experiences which prove I don't learn my lessons well enough. If I did, I'd be a near perfect person and I'm not. I make bad decisions. I still get upset at life's poo throwing. I still put myself in positions where I have a good knowledge I may get hurt but I do it anyway. I do so knowingly because even though it's technically insane, I expect different results from the same behavior. Mainly because the circumstances are different as are the people. I'm me, and I find that hard to change and know I shouldn't try.

 

That doesn't mean I'm oblivious to life's lessons. I am finding more peace just from this thread. Just knowing people are here for me (and I have other friends who support me and they are great!) makes it so much easier to deal with. Yes acrosstheuniverse, I do dwell on his position. It was that concern that ultimately drove me to my anger. I'm no saint but I really do like this guy. He is on hard times yet finds time to help others (something I never have done), he's a veteran. I feel he's on the losing end of life even though he's a good person and my company has no sympathy for his ilk. Large companies rarely do. When you get down to it, that's my role in life now. I'm the ilk/corporate-giant interface. Without me and my kind, there would be no relationship. I accepted this role and I have no cause to resent it, I know I'm adjusting and this was a coarse control! I got mad because he didn't appreciate that but I know that's a mistake because people shouldn't have to. It's my job.

 

Thanks again for your support, criticism or passive comment. For those who are arguing, I apologize for being the catalyst, but applaud you for your ideals! High five!!

 

You have given me strength to be a better man. Thanks support group!!

 

Ken