T-shirt and jeans women

[empresario]

As I said, I was joking around with her. "Picked out your outfit yet", "sexy choice", etc.. A first get together is super casual and the idea of preparing that far ahead for something so casual is funny to me. But she was telling me how she always dresses in general.

 

But your post is a prime example of what's wrong with dating in general. Some men and women actually appreciate effort. They want to stay in shape, look good and feel desired by the person they're with. This lazy complacent mindset of "Who cares if they're impressed, I'll do what I want" sucks. Also, I get that in today's "gender equality" society a man isn't supposed to act like one. However, I flirt, I'm direct, and I express attraction. If a woman doesn't like basic male attention she shouldn't be dating men.

 

Here's a story for you :

 

I had a good first meet with a woman once. Called her and invited her out on a dinner date. She said she wanted to meet there. So I showed up a bit early to confirm the reservation. She walks up in a ratty tie-dye shirt, torn jean shorts, and worn out sandals. So I tell her "I just found this out, but they lost the reservation and say it will be another hour." So then we walked next door to the mall, and I bought her a $5 slice of Sbarro''s and never called her again. I found her lack of effort completely disrespectful and there was no way in hell I was spending my hard earned money on a dinner for her.

 

 

 

Fair enough. I'm not blaming you. I would do the same thing if a girl disrespected my time. My time is very valuable to me. I know what I charge people by the hour for contract work and frankly they couldn't afford it.

 

 

I think I poorly explained my point. I think people should try. But it should be because they want to represent themselves in the right way. It should be because they have self-respect and decency. Then at least you are getting the real, unbashful version of them from the start (within reason...everyone obviously tries harder at first). Girls don't actually like beauty rituals. They aren't fun. If they're going to do it..they want appreciation...not judgment and expectations.

 

 

My reasoning for it being unfair is that even if it was a joke, she has never met you. She doesn't know your personality. The only thing on her mind is that you will be shallow on the date. The comment was not intentionally disrespectful...I buy that...but nonetheless it was. It can and probably will be taken as passive aggressive.

[BlueIris]

Oh, I agree. I prefer men to dress "like men" and wear a suit and tie. I have a preference for men that enjoy being masculine and confident, it wouldn't be a good match long term with a man that likes to dress down all the time.

[bene]

I am a woman who likes to dress femininely but honestly this question from a stranger would be a turnoff for me.

 

If she's interested and wants to make an effort to look nice she will do it on her own accord. No need to bring it up. If her personal style is ratty t-shirt then she's not gonna magically change her entire wardrobe. But you can send some negative vibes to a lady who would have dressed nicely anyway.

 

If the lady would ask something like "are you prepared to spend some money tomorrow" it would sound awkward, wouldn't it? Even if you are willing to pay for coffee or dinner, it is awkward to bring it up beforehand.

[fitnessfan365]

Why are you so fixated on the notion of a single text being a defining moment for her on anything?

 

I take things at face value. "i'm a big t-shirt and jeans woman" means that how she likes to dress in general. There's nothing wrong with that if that is what she is comfortable in. But it doesn't mean that I have to date her. I think if people were more direct and realistic with expectations/preferences going in it would save time.

 

Example - Got another woman's number. Called her and had an awesome conversation. Originally from the UK, sexy Brittish accent, very playful, etc.. We both love to bowl. So I ask when she's free and then plan a bowling date. Then I jokingly say "If your jeans are too tight, it gives you an unfair distraction advantage". She laughs and says "That's what my strategy is then". Obviously she's feminine, likes to flirt, and recognizes that dress style/type plays into attraction. Regardless of what she wears, she has a great personality right off the bat.

[Moy]

I'm a geek so t-shirt and jeans all the way! Look at Kari Byron from Mythbusters, she wears t-shirt and jeans and she's amazing!

[sweetjasmine]

Example - Got another woman's number. Called her and had an awesome conversation. Originally from the UK, sexy Brittish accent, very playful, etc.. We both love to bowl. So I ask when she's free and then plan a bowling date. Then I jokingly say "If your jeans are too tight, it gives you an unfair distraction advantage". She laughs and says "That's what my strategy is then". Obviously she's feminine, likes to flirt, and recognizes that dress style/type plays into attraction. Regardless of what she wears, she has a great personality right off the bat.

 

I don't know why you're being stubborn and refusing to even consider the possibility that your line may have been off-putting to her. Just because other women are open to that kind of talk before even meeting doesn't mean those who aren't are simply "not feminine enough."

 

I like to dress up every once in a while. I like skirts and dresses. But when I was single and first getting to know men, I expected them to behave like gentlemen and not make comments about how tight my jeans might be before they even knew me. To me, that kind of talk might be "masculine" in some sense, but it's also rude and uncouth at that stage. The verbal equivalent of showing up in a ratty t-shirt to a nice restaurant, really.

[GemmaUK]

I've declined meets when a guy starts to talk about what I am going to wear/should wear/what he wants me to wear.

 

I'm also a big t-shirt and jeans girl - always a skinny, pretty T and usually showing my arms and a bit of cleavage. Jeans are always hipster straight leg or skinny and always heels (which I can walk in - I don't go for the teetering carrot leg look) for a first meet unless we are going to be walking miles.

I've not yet had a guy not want to meet me a second time.

 

I also wear combats (and they get most compliments from men) dresses, skirts - but I dress 'up up' when a man deserves my extra bit of effort.

[jen1447]

I take things at face value. "i'm a big t-shirt and jeans woman" means that how she likes to dress in general. There's nothing wrong with that if that is what she is comfortable in. But it doesn't mean that I have to date her. I think if people were more direct and realistic with expectations/preferences going in it would save time.

Actually no. The comment could be based on any number of impetuses, like you possibly being too forward, etc., or it could really mean nothing at all and just be a throwaway comment. Hyper-analyzing little bits of info is really not a smart thing to do where interpersonal relationships are concerned. Just relax.

[Michelle ma Belle]

Listen, I'm as open and easy going as they come about a lot of things. I've met all sorts of men with all sorts of agendas and have experienced a grand variety of scenarios so let me tell you that from MY perspective, reading that exchange, it feels more like she was throwing a bit of water on your fire with the "sexy outfit" comment. Attire for a first date isn't the real issue here if you ask me.

 

I've done it. If I don't know you, if we haven't really chatted about anything other than meeting up and especially if I'm trying to pace myself with you and then you throw a comment about dressing sexy for you out of the blue, I'd probably make a similar comment if only to keep things in check.

 

I mean, how many threads have we read where women complain about the OLD world and how quickly men jump to sexting / sexual talking before they ever even meet? It happens ALL THE TIME.

 

Again, I'm fine with sexual innuendos and sexy chatting and can play with the best of them BUT there is a time and place for it. Sometimes the blatant sexual overtones thrown at us too soon are a bit of a turn off regardless if you're joking or serious. Until you've gotten to know someone better and established come kind of report with them, it's best to remain as safe and respectful as possible.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Michelle ma Belle

[preraph]

I say let the torn jeans people date the other torn jeans people. Everyone is going to put on jeans sometimes, but if I was a man, I wouldn't want to see my woman in the same uniform (same men's uniform too) every day. As a woman, if I wore jeans every day, it would be a sign I really didn't have anything special going on in my life and didn't go to nice places or have any reason to feel special. If you refuse to dress for dinner, who's going to want to take you to a nice restaurant? Even as a woman, if a girlfriend of mine tried to go with me to my favorite restaurant say in a tank top, no bra, and jeans, I just wouldn't take her there or take her again if we met there. You want your friends to have some sense of what's appropriate and to have some variety in their life, not just trudge back and forth to McDonald's every day and let dressing keep them from going anyplace but a sandwich shop. I mean, how hard is it to dress up even jeans? You can put on a top with some color underneath a blazer or sweater or jacket and a piece of clunky jewelry and instantly look like you can go almost anywhere. How much more effort it that?

 

But I have to say if that's the type person someone is, you may as well know it up front so you can write them off if you're not a good match, because how you dress does say a lot about you and what your lifestyle is like.

[fitnessfan365]

I don't know why you're being stubborn and refusing to even consider the possibility that your line may have been off-putting to her. Just because other women are open to that kind of talk before even meeting doesn't mean those who aren't are simply "not feminine enough."

 

I like to dress up every once in a while. I like skirts and dresses. But when I was single and first getting to know men, I expected them to behave like gentlemen and not make comments about how tight my jeans might be before they even knew me. To me, that kind of talk might be "masculine" in some sense, but it's also rude and uncouth at that stage. The verbal equivalent of showing up in a ratty t-shirt to a nice restaurant, really.

 

You have to remember that just because you don't like something, doesn't mean there aren't women out there that do. I like to joke, be playful, admit attraction, etc from the very beginning. If you find that "uncouth" that is your prerogative. Everyone has tastes and opinions. It just means that a guy like me and a woman like you wouldn't be a good match. Even if most women who comment in this thread don't like how I handled myself, that is still a miniscule percentage compared to the entire female population.

 

In regards to the call with Ms UK - I honestly don't see the harm or "disrespect" in making a humorous comment about tight jeans being a distraction during bowling. The fact that she liked it and enjoys that I'd find it desirable is why she has an attractive personality to me. I've never dated a woman from another country. But I've trained women who relocated to the US from different counties before. They're always funny, direct, comfortable with their sexuality, and not uptight in the least. Their outlook on men is always much different and it's refreshing to be honest.

[empresario]

You have to remember that just because you don't like something, doesn't mean there aren't women out there that do. I like to joke, be playful, admit attraction, etc from the very beginning. If you find that "uncouth" that is your prerogative. Everyone has tastes and opinions. It just means that a guy like me and a woman like you wouldn't be a good match. Even if most women who comment in this thread don't like how I handled myself, that is still a miniscule percentage compared to the entire female population.

 

In regards to the call with Ms UK - I honestly don't see the harm or "disrespect" in making a humorous comment about tight jeans being a distraction during bowling. The fact that she liked it and enjoys that I'd find it desirable is why she has an attractive personality to me. I've never dated a woman from another country. But I've trained women who relocated to the US from different counties before. They're always funny, direct, comfortable with their sexuality, and not uptight in the least. Their outlook on men is always much different and it's refreshing to be honest.

 

Alright, tough love time.

 

 

I've tried to empathize. I've even expressed I understand your point. But at this point let's look at this situation as a whole.

 

 

You came here to get an opinion because you had doubts. Perhaps you came here to get your own thoughts validated. But they weren't. We are a meniscal percent of the population...yes. But there is a thing in statistics called sampling.

 

 

Even if you don't realize it, you are doing statistical sampling by coming here and posting this. In math/stat, your goal is to sample enough to claim the data is 'statistically significant'. In this case, I would argue it is.

 

 

You made a mistake. Move on from it. If that's not your type of girl and you aren't concerned with it then why come here? Are you starting a grass-roots campaign to advocate more dresses for women world-wide? I guess I just don't get your motives.

[Gaeta]

FF: I think this board is pretty representative of women in general. We have on here conservative ladies and some pretty liberal ladies and from one extreme to the other we all are in agreement it was distasteful flirting. Don't debate it, just accept it.

 

Reminds me of a thread of mine from last summer. This gentleman invited me over for dinner, he gave me a confirmation call and he ends it with 'oh and dress sexy'. It generated a thread of 15 pages and 212 replies. I think it's easy to see on this board I am very liberal but even for me this was bad taste flirting. I love men's attention and flirting but I still want it to be classy and tasteful and this was not.

[CrystalCastles]

Fitnessfan, you are making a lot of assumptions about someone you haven't even met...

[fitnessfan365]

Alright, tough love time.

 

 

I've tried to empathize. I've even expressed I understand your point. But at this point let's look at this situation as a whole.

 

 

You came here to get an opinion because you had doubts. Perhaps you came here to get your own thoughts validated. But they weren't. We are a meniscal percent of the population...yes. But there is a thing in statistics called sampling.

 

 

Even if you don't realize it, you are doing statistical sampling by coming here and posting this. In math/stat, your goal is to sample enough to claim the data is 'statistically significant'. In this case, I would argue it is.

 

 

You made a mistake. Move on from it. If that's not your type of girl and you aren't concerned with it then why come here? Are you starting a grass-roots campaign to advocate more dresses for women world-wide? I guess I just don't get your motives.

 

My original intent was just to share an experience and see what the women here like to dress like. Since I always see women out and about dressing down, and since I met this woman who likes to dress more casual as well, it was on my mind. That's it. The thread started out that way with Gaeta and a few others commenting on how they dress. But then the thread took on a new direction of women commenting on my texting style, what I said, how I shouldn't say anything about appearance before meeting, etc..

 

So that's why I have been sticking to my opinion, and say that the way that I interact with women is my own. By being myself, I attract women that like it, and eliminate those that don't so in my eyes that isn't a mistake.

[GemmaUK]

You have to remember that just because you don't like something, doesn't mean there aren't women out there that do. I like to joke, be playful, admit attraction, etc from the very beginning. If you find that "uncouth" that is your prerogative. Everyone has tastes and opinions. It just means that a guy like me and a woman like you wouldn't be a good match. Even if most women who comment in this thread don't like how I handled myself, that is still a miniscule percentage compared to the entire female population.

 

In regards to the call with Ms UK - I honestly don't see the harm or "disrespect" in making a humorous comment about tight jeans being a distraction during bowling. The fact that she liked it and enjoys that I'd find it desirable is why she has an attractive personality to me. I've never dated a woman from another country. But I've trained women who relocated to the US from different counties before. They're always funny, direct, comfortable with their sexuality, and not uptight in the least. Their outlook on men is always much different and it's refreshing to be honest.

 

 

The convo you had with Miss UK was entirely different to the one in your OP though.

Do you see that at all?

 

 

I'd be fine with your comment to Miss UK being said to me but not with the comments in your OP.

The implication is different entirely from a woman's perspective.

[MissBee]

I would personally be turned off if a guy I'd never even met texted me about if I'm planning my sexy outfit....it's presumptuous as you found out, since you have no clue if that is that person's preferred style of dress and it's just awkward.

 

 

Save it for a woman you're already dating and not one you don't know.

 

 

Dressing in jeans and t-shirts doesn't mean one isn't womanly, as that can be very feminine as well. I wear jeans more often than not but not t-shirts, usually jeans and some kind of top, I also do skirts and dresses but I've only recently taken to wearing more casual dresses as before I only wore business dresses or cocktail ones. I'm quite feminine I'd say but I still prefer skinny jeans and some kind of blouse/top and again would find it presumptuous for some guy I don't know to text me making assumptions about my "sexy outfit" he has imagined I would wear. Just no.

[sweetjasmine]

You have to remember that just because you don't like something, doesn't mean there aren't women out there that do.

 

I said as much in my post. Some women like that kind of talk or flirting with someone they don't even know. Some don't. My point is that it's not right for you to label the ones who don't as "not feminine enough." Liking some stranger talking about how tight your pants are doesn't make you more feminine. And likewise, making those comments to women you've never met before doesn't make you more masculine.

 

Even if most women who comment in this thread don't like how I handled myself, that is still a miniscule percentage compared to the entire female population.

 

How do you know it's a miniscule percentage? It doesn't even really matter what percentage it is. People are pointing out that your comment may have been off-putting because they're wondering whether her response was meant to get you to back off.

 

They're always funny, direct, comfortable with their sexuality, and not uptight in the least. Their outlook on men is always much different and it's refreshing to be honest.

 

I just find it odd that you're calling women who are a little more formal in their interactions with strangers they haven't met online yet "uptight" when you're the one criticizing a woman for wearing jeans and a t-shirt and not dressing formally enough.

[barcode88]

Oh, I agree. I prefer men to dress "like men" and wear a suit and tie. I have a preference for men that enjoy being masculine and confident, it wouldn't be a good match long term with a man that likes to dress down all the time.

 

There's a time and place for a suit/tie lol - it's not something that happens very often for me.

 

I do like dressing up, but wearing a suit/tie for a casual date is a bit overkill.

[fitnessfan365]

The convo you had with Miss UK was entirely different to the one in your OP though.

Do you see that at all?

 

 

I'd be fine with your comment to Miss UK being said to me but not with the comments in your OP.

The implication is different entirely from a woman's perspective.

 

Well I will admit that it probably wasn't a good idea to have the conversation by text. If she had heard my tone of voice and known that I was joking about planning an outfit for a casual get together, she probably wouldn't have come off as defensive. So I will own that my original comment could be taken wrong via text. Also, in this case I really was just joking around with the sexy comment.

 

However, if we're going to debate on whether women like that men express interest their outfits, that's another matter all together. I've met plenty of women - none of which use the forum Gaeta , that actually like when a guy expresses interest in what they'll be wearing.

 

Example- Back when I first met the ex GF I was really hung up on, she would always ask what she should wear, and loved when I expressed desire about it, telling her to dress sexy,etc.. This was even going into the first meet. Since I like that sort of interaction, I act that way from the get go. Now I'm not saying every woman will like it. As you say, plenty of women on the forums have said otherwise. But it's silly to claim that a few hundred replies on a forum represents ALL women. Last time I checked there were billions on the planet.

 

I just find it odd that you're calling women who are a little more formal in their interactions with strangers they haven't met online yet "uptight" when you're the one criticizing a woman for wearing jeans and a t-shirt and not dressing formally enough.

 

Once again, I was not trying to tell her what to wear when I first meet her. I was simply joking around asking if she'd planned her outfit yet. Then to be playful and joke I said "I'm looking forward to whatever sexy choice you come up with". It really was completely innocent. But in general, I am not attracted to a woman that dresses down and overly casual all the time. I like women that like to be feminine in appearance more often than not.

Edited May 6, 2015 by fitnessfan365

[empresario]

One more point. I will play to your personality a bit as well as to the topic you claim you intended. I know you like feminine women and those that express sexuality openly. Fair. And I'll speak as a man for a second.

 

 

Last year I went on a date with an early 20s girl. She was an ex-pole vaulter...even set state records. Very fit. 5'7''. 36-26-41 measurements. Booty for days, and a waist I could nearly put 2 hands fully around.

 

 

I never saw her once in a dress or anything 'feminine' early in the relationship...but trust me, she knew how to dress to her body type. Even yoga pants made her look very feminine. She had style. She pulled it off. She had the demeanor. The way she looked, the way she walked. Her mannerisms. Do you think I cared what she wore? She had confidence.

 

 

There is a lot to be feminine. You are pigeon-holing a very broad discussion. One that supersedes clothing. It is all the way down to the fabric of gender-identity.

 

 

As you're admitting, it may have come odd wrong. And I'm glad for that. I do think your opinion is unnecessarily shallow none-the-less.

[Gaeta]

Well I will admit that it probably wasn't a good idea to have the conversation by text.

 

You ALMOST humble yourself here lol. It's THAT hard to say 'Ok You guys are right that was not by best work' !

[OldRover]

Fitness,

 

You're WAY ahead of yourself.... for a first date where you've never met, keep the whole thing neutral. You comment was too much and you're reading too much into her. Hell, you've never met! Mentioning sex on the first conversation is just not productive.

 

A good first date would be a simple lunch, or very simple dinner.... nothing fancy, perhaps somewhere where you could walk and talk afterward for a bit. A few hours would be plenty. Keep the conversation light, try to find some common interests... what do you do in your spare time... etc.

 

The purpose of a first date is to break the ice, to see it there's a second date. If no second date, neither of you have wasted much time.

 

Fortunantely I've never dated a woman I've never met prior... always knew them from something, which makes it MUCH easier. And, with that, the first date can be quite successful and fun. When you've never seen them, it usually takes the third day to start getting fun.

 

As for jeans and T shirt, would make no difference to me as long as it was appropriate for where we were going. I dated on lady that was a knockout and always dressed up.... too much. And was glad to get her to wear the jeans and TShirt, especially short jeans.

 

Give the lady a try and let us know.

[BlackOpsZombieGirl]

I'm on the fence with regard to the topic of the OP's post. I agree with the women on this thread who have stated that what FF said in text in his OP to his date (that he hasn't even met yet) and the way he said it COULD be (and IS) off-putting to a lot of women - and, I also agree with the other posters who would NOT have been offended or weirded out by what he said in his text to his date because a lot of women WOULD be (and are) comfy with that kind of sexual innuendo type of banter with a stranger.

 

For me personally, I probably would've just played it off with a sarcastic or playful remark (like the UK woman did) because it's just part of my personality and because that kind of banter wouldn't put me off. But, hopefully this thread has taught FF that SOME (or maybe even a LOT of) women WOULD be (or could be) put off by that kind of talk in text (or during a vocal convo)...and if this woman (or any other woman he's trying to get a first date with) suddenly ghosts him or has an attitude during the first date, he'll have a good idea WHY.

 

For a first date (depending on where we were going and what activity we'd be doing) I'd NEVER show up in a big t-shirt and jeans! No wayyy. I probably wouldn't show up in jeans period, just because I like dressing up, even if that means wearing a jeans mini skirt. Now, if he said we're going somewhere on our first date that necessitated wearing jeans and a t-shirt, like paintball/rock climbing/mini golf/bowling etc. THEN I'd wear my low riders with a halter top or something like that.

 

Everyone has their own preferences with regard to dating - and that includes what type of attire they'd prefer their date to wear when out on a first date. There are women who prefer a guy to wear a suit jacket with their jeans, or a 3 piece suit or a hawaiian pressed shirt with bermuda shorts, or etc. on a first date. And if those women texted the guy in question and he intimated that he'd wear anything OTHER than what SHE prefers, she'd probably be instantly turned off by that.

 

We each have our own preferences regarding what we'd like our dates to wear on a first date (or on subsequent dates). Some peoples' approach to that may be off-putting to some and acceptable (or maybe even a turn on) to others.

 

 

.

[barcode88]

What FF said is just some good flirting ... but it's getting a little bit sexual and that doesn't always work on all Women.

 

I made a sexual remark to a girl on OKC once and it was received well, but I received mixed reception on that approach here.

 

You win some and you lose some