Nice guy but no sexual chemistry....try to teach or don't bother?

[jen1447]

I guess at the end of the day I want to just have a sexually confident take-control guy in the bedroom who is still sweet and romantic outside of it. I'm a forward, independent, opinionated chick in my life mostly, but want a "man" in my sex life. Ya know?

You provided your own resolution here then hon. This guy isn't for you, bc he's about as far from the guy you want as possible on half of your criteria.

 

You're right , I do not want to placate him with stories about how Im not ready for a relationship because it will be an obvious lie. I don't want to hurt his feelings either.

Do him a favor and hurt his feelings. The only thing worse than being told a painful truth is being lied to about a painful truth that you already know is true anyway.

 

You don't have to say "my GOD you suck in bed!" and then smack him and run off, but if I were you I'd give him the breakup talk and tell him that one of the reasons is sexual incompatibility, and that it's clear to you he's quite a bit less experienced than you are and it's a problem for you. (Don't even say the V word.) Say it with a smile and hug him after. That'll hurt, but at least he'll know what the deal really is and hopefully he'll do something to address his shortcomings next time (like look for a similarly inexperienced girl that they he can go on that journey together with) instead of his wet dish cloth routine. He'll also get to take away the comfort that you had enough respect for him to treat him like a man. Nothing much more dehumanizing one person can do to another than treat them like a child, especially on the way out of a relationship.

[Art_Critic]

 

He is SUCH a nice, caring, romantic, creative-date kind of guy. I haven't been treated this nicely by a guy in god knows how long.

 

Please please help me. Give me other ideas on how to apporach this.

 

Start here again...

 

next time you are making out.. take your panties off, sit on his face and go from there

 

it sounds like he doesn't have tons of experience.. many people don't..

[Krieger]

He might be virgin like other people said in this posting. He just not going to tell you he to embarrassed to do so.

 

I got lucky in that the girl I lost mine to was a friend kind of. I was her rebound sort of speak. I was nervous as heck and I did even like her. I just told her because it helped me not be so nervous. She did not care she wanted to have sex with me for the longest time but did not want to cheat on her BF.

 

My only whised I picked someone I liked and had feelings for.

[fitnessfan365]

You provided your own resolution here then hon. This guy isn't for you, bc he's about as far from the guy you want as possible on half of your criteria.

 

 

Do him a favor and hurt his feelings. The only thing worse than being told a painful truth is being lied to about a painful truth that you already know is true anyway.

 

You don't have to say "my GOD you suck in bed!" and then smack him and run off, but if I were you I'd give him the breakup talk and tell him that one of the reasons is sexual incompatibility, and that it's clear to you he's quite a bit less experienced than you are and it's a problem for you. (Don't even say the V word.) Say it with a smile and hug him after. That'll hurt, but at least he'll know what the deal really is and hopefully he'll do something to address his shortcomings next time (like look for a similarly inexperienced girl that they he can go on that journey together with) instead of his wet dish cloth routine. He'll also get to take away the comfort that you had enough respect for him to treat him like a man. Nothing much more dehumanizing one person can do to another than treat them like a child, especially on the way out of a relationship.

 

We have a tendency to disagree but I absolutely LOVED this post Jen. I've always said this myself. If more women were tactfully honest instead of trying to be over the top polite, a guy might actually change his behavior. Now granted, this subject is a bit more touchy than simply being too nice, not assertive/confident enough, etc.. So it will be a bit more awkward. However,being direct and honest with respect is what most guys prefer in the end.

 

I remember when I first attended video editing school. I'd been doing it for years as a hobby and everyone said I was amazing, etc.. Yet the first few months I was there, the instructors (working pros) tore me to shreds. Not in a bad way. Just honest constructive criticism. After that I realized it was actually a good thing and you don't improve without it. Now ironically I'm a personal trainer and didn't care for editing professionally. I love it much more as a hobby and creative outlet. But that experience really helped me receive constructive criticism better and learn to use it. All anyone wants these days is to surround themselves with people who kiss their ass all the time.

Edited April 25, 2015 by fitnessfan365

[SawtoothMars]

Help help help!!! Is he a lost cause??? I'm too old to be teaching someone everything from scratch...ugh.

 

There is just so much wrong here I don't even know where to start. There is nothing wrong with this guy... he just lacks experience. It would probably take all of about a month to show him what you like and give him the confidence to do it.

 

You don't seem interested in putting out that effort... AND have a condescending attitude towards him. You have lead this guy on long enough and wasted enough of his time! You are obligated at this point to be brutally honest with him. Tell him EXACTLY what he is doing wrong and then move on.

[ZA Dater]

Reading through this thread, as a 30yo virgin soon to be 31 virgin I can tell you its incredibly tough for a guy, you can be nice take someone on fantastic dates and then get tossed to the curb because you aren't Casanova, hardly seems right to me.

 

 

Horses for courses I guess but I truly believed or believed until I read this thread that being a virgin wouldn't count again me, clearly it is and the older one is the more of a turn off it is.

 

 

Consider me educated.

 

 

As for the initial question, well you answered it, clearly he isn't for you, perhaps try and find a guy in between player Casanova and lovely thoughtful nice guy.

[Poppygoodwill]

It's all been said really, but I think the telling detail is that he wasn't taking your instruction on board. It's one thing to be inexperienced. It's quite another to ignore or not listen to someone who is more or less spelling out how to make them feel good. I speak from personal experience...over time it will be that failure to listen that makes you angry. Anyone can improve, if they pay attention and are willing to learn. If they're not, then they won't. And it will be their own fault.

 

So before you dump him, be sure he's untrainable. If you can find a way to make it a game, that you become the mistress and he the student, then you'll see if he's able to be trained. That is, if you're willing to do it.

 

I have to say, that finding someone whom you laugh with and who always knows the right thing to say and has your back, is worth so much in life. If this guy could be that for you, he might be worth the effort.

[BlueIris]

No, he’s not a lost cause. He sounds great. It’s your expectations and priorities that give me pause, so… what is your goal in dating? Are you looking for your husband, a life partner to build a family and future with? Or are you looking for a guy to have sex with? Because that’s the key.

 

In my experience, sex is easy to learn and teach each other, especially after you’ve fallen for the person because of who he is inside. Finding someone that you can really admire, respect, feel safe with, enjoy and have faith in is MUCH harder than learning how to have sex. Frankly, guys with all of those traits have great promise in regard to sex and love, imo.

 

So rather than focus on him, focus on yourself. What do you want and why?

[LookAtThisPOst]

She already let him touch her, so apparently she was impressed and had encouraged his behavior be letting him do so.

 

 

Dang. This guy seems absurdly clueless when it comes to intimacy...perhaps even compared to other VIRGINS around his age. (I'm guessing he's in his 20s.) In other words, even your typical non-asexual male virgin who still lives in his parents' basement and who's barely dated would know enough about women and intimacy to not do some of the things he did. Even most super-religious folks don't have their heads buried this deep in the sand. Anyway, I strongly suspect that this guy is a virgin and lied about his previous "girlfriends". I also wonder if he has ever had any platonic female friends. Sheesh, I wonder if he has ever gone to see any blockbuster movies or watched any popular TV shows. Media depictions of romance are usually overdramatized for the sake of entertainment and thus not really representative of real-life romance, but still.

 

My vote is definitely "don't bother". There's a big difference between just being inexperienced, and lacking sexual chemistry. Anyone can learn about kissing and sex...from books, from the Internet, and/or from a willing woman teaching him. That's just skills. Skills can be taught if the person's willing to learn. But sexual chemistry is not teachable, IMO...it's either there or it isn't.

 

The first red flag is the whole "enamored with you, staring at you like an puppy in love". That's just weird. I mean, there's interest...and then there's infatuation, obsession and risk of smothering. I'm wondering if this guy has (and values) a life of his own...friends, hobbies, etc. Also, him not kissing you on the first date is no big deal in of itself...BUT combined with the whole "enamored with you" bit, the juxtaposition of those things doesn't quite add up. Maybe he's shy and his logical mind was telling him to hold back, while his raw masculine drive wanted him to make a move.

 

The whole extravagant second date is another red flag (including the driving you way off into the countryside - safety concerns there), and a clear sign of someone who lacks dating experience. The guy was trying too hard. Trying too hard to "impress". Unless the two people already knew each other prior to dating, it's best to keep the first few dates fairly simple. Considering this guy's a student, spending a large chunk of his earnings on this date was very ill-advised. A guy "moving heaven and earth" to be with someone is one thing, but that can be done without being stupid and playing roulette with other important aspects of his life.

 

"Don't bother" isn't really a strong enough suggestion here...I suggest running far away from this guy. Dude just seems "off" in multiple ways. He may have a few screws loose. I wouldn't be surprised if other women in his classes thought that he was a bit creepy, despite his allegedly nice exterior.

[vanhalenfan]

This sounded like my first or second date with my now ex-husband...lol...He was HORRIBLE in all things sexual. I thought I could teach him, but it was a disaster (why I married him, that is another story). It never changed. At all. He was sexually unteachable...I tried everything. I, too, can tend to be quite sexual and it is important to me to be compatible in that way. Due to my experience, I'd say WALK. It's probably not worth it.

[LookAtThisPOst]

This sounded like my first or second date with my now ex-husband...lol...He was HORRIBLE in all things sexual. I thought I could teach him, but it was a disaster (why I married him, that is another story). It never changed. At all. He was sexually unteachable...I tried everything. I, too, can tend to be quite sexual and it is important to me to be compatible in that way. Due to my experience, I'd say WALK. It's probably not worth it.

 

Chances are, it wasn't that he couldn't be taught, it was that he didn't want to learn. People will learn to do things if they are willing to be taught.

[Vegeta2]

well I see whats in store for me...

[Necris]

This thread made me sad, as I can relate to that guy.

 

Totally no experience whatsoever, haven't even kissed a girl, never had a girlfriend (though the other guy supposedly has), and I've been on a handful of dates in my life but they never got passed the first date.

 

Some people I guess are just hopeless, if you don't understand people well and haven't discovered "the magic" by a certain age I guess you never will.

 

It's up to you OP can't fault you for being with someone that you don't really like so it will probably be best for you to move on.

[Vegeta2]

Necris... I'm in the exact same situation as you. Let me tell you a dirty little secret... If you are a dateless virgin male by your mid twenties... chances are you will be so for the rest of your life.

How do a know this?

Last year I met with an Incel naval oncologist who was in his last year of Med school. He said he trained with quite a few therapists and the common theme among them is that guys who have not had success with women by their twenties will likely always be alone. They were telling him this while laughing, not knowing he himself was a 48 year old virgin who never had a girlfriend. Therapist will never admit that to their clients however... It's bad for business

[LookAtThisPOst]

This thread made me sad, as I can relate to that guy.

 

Totally no experience whatsoever, haven't even kissed a girl, never had a girlfriend (though the other guy supposedly has), and I've been on a handful of dates in my life but they never got passed the first date.

 

Some people I guess are just hopeless, if you don't understand people well and haven't discovered "the magic" by a certain age I guess you never will.

 

It's up to you OP can't fault you for being with someone that you don't really like so it will probably be best for you to move on.

 

You know what's funny is, how when people who motivate you, or there are motivational speakers or even your friends say, "It's never too late to..." and then they end it with going back to college(even for your a 40-something year old single mom with 3 kids" or "it's never to late to do this or never to late to do that..." but apparently when it comes to this situation, according to the unsympathetic posting here (or maybe just self-defeatists), it's very much too late...even with men past their mid 20s.

 

Apparently there's some cut off age where men should have experienced at least one girlfriend and that's in high school.

[ZA Dater]

This thread made me sad, as I can relate to that guy.

 

Totally no experience whatsoever, haven't even kissed a girl, never had a girlfriend (though the other guy supposedly has), and I've been on a handful of dates in my life but they never got passed the first date.

 

Some people I guess are just hopeless, if you don't understand people well and haven't discovered "the magic" by a certain age I guess you never will.

 

It's up to you OP can't fault you for being with someone that you don't really like so it will probably be best for you to move on.

 

I can relate to all of that.

[Vegeta2]

I'm just stating from my experience... John 8:32 " And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free"

[LookAtThisPOst]

Necris... I'm in the exact same situation as you. Let me tell you a dirty little secret... If you are a dateless virgin male by your mid twenties... chances are you will be so for the rest of your life.

 

Wow...and mid-20's is PRETTY early in life, just imagine if you've reached your mid-20's...you have between then and probably your 70's or 80's to be without a woman only because woman don't find such a thing desirable.

 

But if you think about it, people are marrying at a much later age, where back in my parents day, they were already marrying in their early to mid-20s. Women's lib may had something to do with this as well. Now, women can take their time finding someone and aren't up against the clock anymore to rush to the alter. So now it's a "rush to loose your virginity before 25" for men.

[Necris]

You know what's funny is, how when people who motivate you, or there are motivational speakers or even your friends say, "It's never too late to..." and then they end it with going back to college(even for your a 40-something year old single mom with 3 kids" or "it's never to late to do this or never to late to do that..." but apparently when it comes to this situation, according to the unsympathetic posting here (or maybe just self-defeatists), it's very much too late...even with men past their mid 20s.

 

Apparently there's some cut off age where men should have experienced at least one girlfriend and that's in high school.

 

But how would he(guy in OP)/us suddenly gain this magic "chemistry" and these "skills" to woo women?

 

Can this even be taught?

 

These are some questions I have had.

 

I mean I've talked to some of the guys I know who are successful with women and they make it sound so easy no magic tricks just talk to girls and I follow their advice and fail every time so I've come to the conclusion there is something essential I've missed but I'm not even sure what it is and no one can tell me.

[Vegeta2]

necriss is rapidly becoming a favourite poster of mine!

[SawtoothMars]

But how would he(guy in OP)/us suddenly gain this magic "chemistry" and these "skills" to woo women?

Can this even be taught?

These are some questions I have had.

I mean I've talked to some of the guys I know who are successful with women and they make it sound so easy no magic tricks just talk to girls and I follow their advice and fail every time so I've come to the conclusion there is something essential I've missed but I'm not even sure what it is and no one can tell me.

 

Absolutely this can be taught!

 

It isn't about following a special math formula or saying x,y,z. It is generally about the kind of energy you exude. As if your personality has a frequency. Most boys learn this from their fathers.

 

I would say that massive and sweeping changes are rare and very difficult, but it doesn't take much of a change to begin having success with women. Success then creates more success.

 

A great example is this guy trying to woo Kismet. This might work with some girls... but not the ones like OP who are excessively self centered. First off the guy clearly came on too strong emotionally. Women respond well to attention, but not overly emotional or sensitive attention. You have to act interested, but also as if you don't care. THIS is what turned her off in the first place. He likely acts this way because he is insecure and she can sense it.

 

In regards to the sexual stuff. NEVER try to go slow. It's her job to pump the air brakes. Going slow makes most women feel undesirable, and you seem less sexual or passionate. Also, women always talk about wanting "gentle"... do not confuse this with being soft. They generally want forceful, but slow. Kismet will always go for Harvey Whorebanger over Stephen Softandsensitive. It may not seem like a logical choice, but who is likelier to protect her better?

 

Does any of this make sense?

[katiegrl]

Absolutely this can be taught!

 

It isn't about following a special math formula or saying x,y,z. It is generally about the kind of energy you exude. As if your personality has a frequency. Most boys learn this from their fathers.

 

I would say that massive and sweeping changes are rare and very difficult, but it doesn't take much of a change to begin having success with women. Success then creates more success.

 

A great example is this guy trying to woo Kismet. This might work with some girls... but not the ones like OP who are excessively self centered. First off the guy clearly came on too strong emotionally. Women respond well to attention, but not overly emotional or sensitive attention. You have to act interested, but also as if you don't care. THIS is what turned her off in the first place. He likely acts this way because he is insecure and she can sense it.

 

In regards to the sexual stuff. NEVER try to go slow. It's her job to pump the air brakes. Going slow makes most women feel undesirable, and you seem less sexual or passionate. Also, women always talk about wanting "gentle"... do not confuse this with being soft. They generally want forceful, but slow. Kismet will always go for Harvey Whorebanger over Stephen Softandsensitive. It may not seem like a logical choice, but who is likelier to protect her better?

 

Does any of this make sense?

 

Sawtooth, you're awesome... ^^ +100.

[SawtoothMars]

Sawtooth, you're awesome... ^^ +100.

 

Thanks Katiegrl! I get tired of this Bad Boy - Nice Guy thinking. Most women don't even care about where a guy is on that spectrum!

 

You know this whole movement they have to stop date rape started when I was a teen. They pounded me with propaganda to the point where I was so afraid of accidentally raping a girl that I was paralyzed in sexual situations. I remember this one time I asked a girl if I could kiss her, before I did... and she went from very interested to walking away. It really took me some time to figure out what was going wrong.

 

Fact is that you HAVE to learn how to read body language and non-verbal cues. I suspect if this guy had been very pushy and a bit forceful Kismet would have responded well. I mean understand that No means NO, but you have to make her say it... and if she gets all stiffed up and acting weird you MUST ask her what's going on. However if you go into it feeling like you don't have permission... then you are going to turn her off.

[BlackOpsZombieGirl]

When I met my ex-bf (he was 27), he had only had sexual experience with two other women. He confessed to me a few months after our first intimate encounter that he had never performed oral on a woman, nor did any woman ever perform it on him because he never met one who he was comfortable with and turned on enough to do that with. I was also his first time that he said he had ever made love to a woman - because he truly loved me and had a deep emotional connection with me and felt intense passion with me. The other two women he had sex with was just that - sex...with no emotional attachment, no passion and no love. He said those experiences were empty.

 

He kissed very well but I needed to show him the way with regard to oral sex, with him touching, kissing and sucking on my breasts, touching me on other erogenous areas of my body and how to fully engage in tantric sex. He was very eager to learn, he paid attention to the things I said and when I physically showed him what to do...and thankfully, it didn't take him long at all to get the hang of things! Because him and I had such amazing chemistry and emotional attraction for each other, I think this is the reason he was such a quick learner and why I had no problem 'teaching' him how to please me. The 'teaching' part was FUN!

 

But, as for the OP's situation....I mean, wow. If my ex-bf did some of the awkward and inept things that the OP's date had done - even AFTER I taught him how to do things over and over again; I honestly would've ended things. As other posters have stated, sexual intimacy - oral and intercourse - are things that CAN be taught...but um, sexual chemistry and attraction, are things that CANNOT be taught - it has to be THERE, period. The part where I read that she said he rubbed his face on her panties (without removing them) and through her clothing - that is something I'll remember for the rest of my life lol - that visual, of him doing that to her, seems....weird, and, perverted or something, idk.

 

 

 

.

[Imajerk17]

A few thoughts...

 

1. These types of threads on LS always seem to draw people out projecting their own issues onto the OP. In this case, Nice Guys who feel that they aren't given enough of a chance by the women they meet. Anyway fellas, this isn't about you, it is about the OP. She doesn't owe it to mankind to give this guy a chance.

 

2. Your question OP, taken on a hypothetical level, maybe. Then again, I dated the girl I lost my virginity to, for 2 years. We broke up for a few reasons but our sex life certainly wasn't one of them. I dunno how I knew what to do in bed (and in other places)--instinct?

 

3. That said, I'm not sure why you believe this particular guy OP actually is a genuinely good guy. All we know about him is that he came on awfully strong with the romance. (Which might mean that he has some experience after all--he sure seems to know how to plan a date.) In fact, those types of guys tend to blowtorch themselves out pretty quickly too.

 

I think too many people need some sort of drama and excitement to consider even a second date (in this case, the guy coming on super strong) and I think that is really too bad. Anyway, there are plenty of guys out there who could be great for you, but thing is, the first dates with these men may not have all those fireworks and they might not involve such elaborate first dates as with this guy coming on so strong. Can you handle that?

 

So Kismet I'd say: Try teaching him if you want, but if it doesn't work, then let him go with a clear conscience. You gave him a fair chance.

 

How did you meet this guy Kismet?

Edited April 26, 2015 by Imajerk17