Nice guy but no sexual chemistry....try to teach or don't bother?

April 25, 2015

Im so sorry if this is long but on the bright side I need to give somewhat detailed summaries of my intimate experiences for you to help me out here. I met a guy couple weeks ago. First date was very nice, romantic and unique (not just the usual, boring get-a-drink-in-a-bar thing) where he took me to the beach with wine and a blanket and sat there six hours talking. I wouldn't say I was head over heels or didnt even really feel any butterflies, but figured after all the jerks I've dated who I DID have butterflies and an intense attraction with, maybe I should force myself to give a nice guy a chance. He obviously is REALLY into me-- said a million times how I was beautiful and he had such a great time each time he saw me and how he was so happy to do something nice and romantic with someone. Was a total gentleman-- didn't even try to kiss me, which I thought was nice at first since most guys just try to get me in bed on the first date anyway. He said he hasn't had any longterm girlfriends more than a year, which I thought was odd since a year is not that short-term, but thought maybe he talks a lot and never makes a move because he is shy. He insisted he likes to take things slow because he thinks its better for the long run. I tried to hint to him to kiss me the first date and he didnt even try to do more than hold my hand....he seemed enamoured with me the entire time just staring at me like a puppy in love. It was almost bordering on weird but still endearing.

As I said, I wasn't super excited about him at first (no particular reason, just wasn't super excited) but he's nice enough-- he's ok looking, definitely has nice features both physically and personality wise. Not my perfect type, mind you, but seemed like he could have potential. And again...after an endless stream of jerks Im trying to give the nice guy a chance and focus on his positives. Told myself sometimes you grow to like someone after you know them more.

So I said ok to a second date. For the second date it was even more amazing and romantic than the first! He took me to the country side, drove me 3 hours to a beautiful nature reserve for a romantic walk and talk and drive through the country, then took me to a secluded restaurant off the beaten path that I never would have found on my own (seems only the locals know about it and I am new-ish to this country and he is a local)-- it was literally one of the most amazing meals I've ever had in my life, in a perfect romantic setting, and not cheap either. All in all, this guy must have spent about 25% of what he usually pays in RENT every month on our day-escape to the country yesterday between the VERY expensive dinner, wine, gas, entry fees to the reserve, tolls, breakfast on the way, etc. I tried to offer money to pay for things countless times, even if only to leave the tip at dinner, and he refused. I know for a fact he does not make a lot of money right now-- he is a student and 4 years younger than me. But in all aspects, including paying for things, he has been a total gentleman. I was blown away by the thought and effort he put into making a day escape for me, and it was only our second real date. He obviously is enamoured by me for whatever reason.

Throughout the day I tried to find his positive aspects-- to focus on the good things to try to build more of an excitement and attraction towards him. I admittedly hadn't been so excited about him (moreso about the romantic idea of the date in the country), but as the day went on I thought he was starting to grow on me more. I decided after we got back to the city in the evening to invite him over for a night-cap cuppa tea. After THREE hours of talking on my sofa with drinks (I mean, I was exhausted at this point and started to wonder if he was just unbelievably shy or completely asexual) he FINALLY kisses me. What a disappointment.... :-(

I wanted so badly to be sexually attracted to him. After him not kissing me on the first date, or so long on the second, I thought maybe he is shy. Perhaps he is, but turns out he is also a TERRIBLE kisser, and not just a terrible kisser, but seems to honestly have no idea what he is doing with a woman. Doesnt know how to even kiss a neck, touch a breast, I mean nothing. At the risk of TMI, he tried to sort of kiss all over my body over my clothes, including putting his face over my panties in what I can only assume was his attempt at oral sex (OVER my panties???), but all he really ended up doing was sort of like rubbing his face all over me. It was sort of like in those late-night movies where the actors are only simulating oral sex but you can see they are not ACTUALLY doing anything...that's basically what he was doing. I really think he just had no idea what to do! I desperatly tried to feign some excitement to see if maybe if he saw I was getting into it he would maybe he less nervous, that perhaps his nerves were making him so bad at everything to the point that he didnt know how to properly even caress me, but it didnt work. He was so awkward that I started to be embarrassed for him at one point honestly. I won't get into too many details but suffice to say that if he had confessed to me at some point that he is a circa-30 year old virgin, I'd believe him. There was just no physical connection for me at all, and prior to him finally making a move I told myself that while I wasn't CRAZY about him physically, that after such a great date I was growing to like him and if he at least had physical skills that it would maybe honestly work and we could make something of this.

But my god he has no physical skills that I can see so far. It was so bad that after 20 awkward minutes of trying to make out and fool around as I described above, I started to just say I was really tired because it was getting late, and I made up some excuse about how I don't like to go too far on the second date. In truth I have no objections to being intimate on a second date, but with him I had NO desire after what I experienced :-(((( I really tried to lead him in the right direction. I kissed him forcefully, and took the lead myself to try to show how I like to be kissed thinking he would respond when he saw me being firmer, more passionate. He kisses like a limp, dead fish with lips that don't work. When he kisses my neck or other parts of me i cant even feel it-- literally, not exaggerating, it is like he just took his face and haphazardly rubbed it on my body parts like someone having a seizure. It was just awful. I tried to say "don't be so gentle" (in truth he wasnt being gentle, he just like literally does not know how to kiss. It's the most bizarre thing....he kisses a woman's neck and body like a 15 year old boy who is doing it for the first time and doesnt know what to do at all). I tried to say I like it more forecful. I tried to take his arm and kiss it the way I would like to be kissed on my body and neck and face and said "try it like this". I tried to even say bluntly "when you kiss me, I honestly dont feel anything you need to do it harder please" or "try to see how I kiss you and respond back, and maybe you can tell me how you like it done to you as well." I literally tried everything I could think of, from subtle hinting to flat-out saying I couldn't feel anything properly the way he was doing it. For maybe a split second I thought he was kissing me harder but again it went back to the same limp, weak, have-no-idea-what-i-am-doing nonsense. He can't kiss, he doesn't know how to caress or touch-- seriously it's as if he's never had his hands on a woman before. I shudder to think what it would have been like if I had more energy or inclination to allow it to go further. I haven't been that turned off by someone I otherwise kind of liked....almost ever.

I am really starting to wonder if "only had a couple of girlfriends that lasted a year" really means he's never had any girlfriends before and either is a virgin or at the least has extremely limited sexual experiences. I honestly don't know what to do. Let's assume that he's not lying and has some sexual experience....this means he is just terrible!

He is SUCH a nice, caring, romantic, creative-date kind of guy. I haven't been treated this nicely by a guy in god knows how long. I wanted SO badly to have some sexual chemistry with this guy so that we could try to make this work. I know that personality is important and sex isn't everything, but come on....a romantic realtionship needs sex to survive!!! I am a very sexual person, and I can't be with someone that I abhor the thought of even kissing!!

Please please help me. Give me other ideas on how to apporach this. I don't want to give up on it so easily because of how nice he is in other areas but if he can't improve his physical abilities this is a dead end. Please re-read what I tried already above and tell me what else I can do to try to see if I can "teach" him or lead him in teh right direction without totally killing his confidence at the same time (when i told him i honestly couldnt feel anything he was doing he looked upset and said wow, no one has ever said that to him before).

Help help help!!! Is he a lost cause??? I'm too old to be teaching someone everything from scratch...ugh.

April 25, 2015

Yes, he's a lost cause. I am sure he is a nice guy, but you two (from what you have written) seem to be in very different places sexually. Way too much to teach. Your frustration would exhaust you and your coaching would kill your libido. Nope, call it a day. Sorry.

Edited April 25, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

April 25, 2015

Ohh this was a good laugh read.

Now seriously. He is very inexperienced, and in my opinion, your "directions" are just distressing to him.. Better slow down with the physical stuff and go watch some romantic movie, erotic if you want, so he can learn by observing others. Or just be the "lead" in al the physical stuff, and sooner or later he'll start to mimic/follow up.

But with all the honesty it will take time, few months probably... It could be worth the effort (he seems like a caring person, but from the writing, you seem to be more attracted to his attention and generosity than to him as a person, excuse me if I'm wrong...)

I've been on both sides. Recently I had to stop seeing a very childish/unexperienced guy like yours (also a good person), mainly because at this point in my life, I was not willing to become the teacher/leader in the relationship. If you have similar thoughts, better stop seeing him now (he can get very "sticky" considering his personality and circumstances...)

Im so sorry if this is long but on the bright side I need to give somewhat detailed summaries of my intimate experiences for you to help me out here. I met a guy couple weeks ago. First date was very nice, romantic and unique (not just the usual, boring get-a-drink-in-a-bar thing) where he took me to the beach with wine and a blanket and sat there six hours talking. I wouldn't say I was head over heels or didnt even really feel any butterflies, but figured after all the jerks I've dated who I DID have butterflies and an intense attraction with, maybe I should force myself to give a nice guy a chance. He obviously is REALLY into me-- said a million times how I was beautiful and he had such a great time each time he saw me and how he was so happy to do something nice and romantic with someone. Was a total gentleman-- didn't even try to kiss me, which I thought was nice at first since most guys just try to get me in bed on the first date anyway. He said he hasn't had any longterm girlfriends more than a year, which I thought was odd since a year is not that short-term, but thought maybe he talks a lot and never makes a move because he is shy. He insisted he likes to take things slow because he thinks its better for the long run. I tried to hint to him to kiss me the first date and he didnt even try to do more than hold my hand....he seemed enamoured with me the entire time just staring at me like a puppy in love. It was almost bordering on weird but still endearing.

As I said, I wasn't super excited about him at first (no particular reason, just wasn't super excited) but he's nice enough-- he's ok looking, definitely has nice features both physically and personality wise. Not my perfect type, mind you, but seemed like he could have potential. And again...after an endless stream of jerks Im trying to give the nice guy a chance and focus on his positives. Told myself sometimes you grow to like someone after you know them more.

So I said ok to a second date. For the second date it was even more amazing and romantic than the first! He took me to the country side, drove me 3 hours to a beautiful nature reserve for a romantic walk and talk and drive through the country, then took me to a secluded restaurant off the beaten path that I never would have found on my own (seems only the locals know about it and I am new-ish to this country and he is a local)-- it was literally one of the most amazing meals I've ever had in my life, in a perfect romantic setting, and not cheap either. All in all, this guy must have spent about 25% of what he usually pays in RENT every month on our day-escape to the country yesterday between the VERY expensive dinner, wine, gas, entry fees to the reserve, tolls, breakfast on the way, etc. I tried to offer money to pay for things countless times, even if only to leave the tip at dinner, and he refused. I know for a fact he does not make a lot of money right now-- he is a student and 4 years younger than me. But in all aspects, including paying for things, he has been a total gentleman. I was blown away by the thought and effort he put into making a day escape for me, and it was only our second real date. He obviously is enamoured by me for whatever reason.

Throughout the day I tried to find his positive aspects-- to focus on the good things to try to build more of an excitement and attraction towards him. I admittedly hadn't been so excited about him (moreso about the romantic idea of the date in the country), but as the day went on I thought he was starting to grow on me more. I decided after we got back to the city in the evening to invite him over for a night-cap cuppa tea. After THREE hours of talking on my sofa with drinks (I mean, I was exhausted at this point and started to wonder if he was just unbelievably shy or completely asexual) he FINALLY kisses me. What a disappointment.... :-(

I wanted so badly to be sexually attracted to him. After him not kissing me on the first date, or so long on the second, I thought maybe he is shy. Perhaps he is, but turns out he is also a TERRIBLE kisser, and not just a terrible kisser, but seems to honestly have no idea what he is doing with a woman. Doesnt know how to even kiss a neck, touch a breast, I mean nothing. At the risk of TMI, he tried to sort of kiss all over my body over my clothes, including putting his face over my panties in what I can only assume was his attempt at oral sex (OVER my panties???), but all he really ended up doing was sort of like rubbing his face all over me. It was sort of like in those late-night movies where the actors are only simulating oral sex but you can see they are not ACTUALLY doing anything...that's basically what he was doing. I really think he just had no idea what to do! I desperatly tried to feign some excitement to see if maybe if he saw I was getting into it he would maybe he less nervous, that perhaps his nerves were making him so bad at everything to the point that he didnt know how to properly even caress me, but it didnt work. He was so awkward that I started to be embarrassed for him at one point honestly. I won't get into too many details but suffice to say that if he had confessed to me at some point that he is a circa-30 year old virgin, I'd believe him. There was just no physical connection for me at all, and prior to him finally making a move I told myself that while I wasn't CRAZY about him physically, that after such a great date I was growing to like him and if he at least had physical skills that it would maybe honestly work and we could make something of this.

But my god he has no physical skills that I can see so far. It was so bad that after 20 awkward minutes of trying to make out and fool around as I described above, I started to just say I was really tired because it was getting late, and I made up some excuse about how I don't like to go too far on the second date. In truth I have no objections to being intimate on a second date, but with him I had NO desire after what I experienced :-(((( I really tried to lead him in the right direction. I kissed him forcefully, and took the lead myself to try to show how I like to be kissed thinking he would respond when he saw me being firmer, more passionate. He kisses like a limp, dead fish with lips that don't work. When he kisses my neck or other parts of me i cant even feel it-- literally, not exaggerating, it is like he just took his face and haphazardly rubbed it on my body parts like someone having a seizure. It was just awful. I tried to say "don't be so gentle" (in truth he wasnt being gentle, he just like literally does not know how to kiss. It's the most bizarre thing....he kisses a woman's neck and body like a 15 year old boy who is doing it for the first time and doesnt know what to do at all). I tried to say I like it more forecful. I tried to take his arm and kiss it the way I would like to be kissed on my body and neck and face and said "try it like this". I tried to even say bluntly "when you kiss me, I honestly dont feel anything you need to do it harder please" or "try to see how I kiss you and respond back, and maybe you can tell me how you like it done to you as well." I literally tried everything I could think of, from subtle hinting to flat-out saying I couldn't feel anything properly the way he was doing it. For maybe a split second I thought he was kissing me harder but again it went back to the same limp, weak, have-no-idea-what-i-am-doing nonsense. He can't kiss, he doesn't know how to caress or touch-- seriously it's as if he's never had his hands on a woman before. I shudder to think what it would have been like if I had more energy or inclination to allow it to go further. I haven't been that turned off by someone I otherwise kind of liked....almost ever.

I am really starting to wonder if "only had a couple of girlfriends that lasted a year" really means he's never had any girlfriends before and either is a virgin or at the least has extremely limited sexual experiences. I honestly don't know what to do. Let's assume that he's not lying and has some sexual experience....this means he is just terrible!

He is SUCH a nice, caring, romantic, creative-date kind of guy. I haven't been treated this nicely by a guy in god knows how long. I wanted SO badly to have some sexual chemistry with this guy so that we could try to make this work. I know that personality is important and sex isn't everything, but come on....a romantic realtionship needs sex to survive!!! I am a very sexual person, and I can't be with someone that I abhor the thought of even kissing!!

Please please help me. Give me other ideas on how to apporach this. I don't want to give up on it so easily because of how nice he is in other areas but if he can't improve his physical abilities this is a dead end. Please re-read what I tried already above and tell me what else I can do to try to see if I can "teach" him or lead him in teh right direction without totally killing his confidence at the same time (when i told him i honestly couldnt feel anything he was doing he looked upset and said wow, no one has ever said that to him before).

Help help help!!! Is he a lost cause??? I'm too old to be teaching someone everything from scratch...ugh.

April 25, 2015

Wow, a few posts have made me chuckle but none have made me spit my food out! This was the bit that did it for me:

"When he kisses my neck or other parts of me i cant even feel it-- literally, not exaggerating, it is like he just took his face and haphazardly rubbed it on my body parts like someone having a seizure"

Thanks for that.

OK, I might not agree with everything Leigh posts about "chemistry" being the be all and end all, but it is an important part and there obviously is nothing there for you.

To be honest, I can't see why you would even be remotely interested in seeing this guy again.

The fact that the first (and second) dates were so elaborate would actually be a red flag to me - yeah sure, a coffee shop may be a cliche and a bit boring, but for a first date you shouldn't be investing so much time and money.

As to if he is a virgin, it's possible. He may also br gay. Or just really really really terrible with women. It's hard to believe in 2015 with all the tips videos etc available that anyone could be this clueless!

Part of me want you to see him again - if only for more humorous tales, but I think it's only fair to not drag it out for you both.

April 25, 2015

I don't blame you. I wouldn't want to be with a woman who was that clueless sexually either. It's one thing to learn someone's preferences and certain triggers. But on a basic level, you can tell right away if someone knows what they're doing.

But I do think your picker is seriously broken. I mean you say that it was nice this guy didnt try to get you into bed on date one like all the others, but those others are the ones you were attracted to. Hopefully you meet a gentleman with balls with bedroom skills (I probably don't live near you. )

April 25, 2015

It's up to you. It sounds like you like him and want it to work. You could try to give it a little time and I'm sure he could learn from you if the connection between you two is otherwise good.

I disagree with the above poster about the second date being too soon. I'm a guy, and I personally respect women more who sleep with me on the first date because they really want to than I respect the women who hold out and play games for several weeks because society tells them they shouldn't be sexual. We're adults.

April 25, 2015

Be honest and upfront with him and tell him that you would like to work things out with him by actually teaching him.

It sounds unromantic but if you teach exactly how to do things, he will become your perfect lover. Give him a chance. Sure, you'll go out and meet someone who knows what they're doing but they probably won't treat you like a lady like he did.

April 25, 2015

Be honest and upfront with him and tell him that you would like to work things out with him by actually teaching him.

It sounds unromantic but if you teach exactly how to do things, he will become your perfect lover. Give him a chance. Sure, you'll go out and meet someone who knows what they're doing but they probably won't treat you like a lady like he did.

Haha.. So every guy that's confident, assertive, and sexually skilled will mistreat women? Yeah..OK.

April 25, 2015

Op I skimmed your post since I need to get to bed for work in the morning...but honestly, give the guy a chance. Sure he might have no idea what to do sexually at the moment, but maybe he will get better once he gets to know you...also I'm sure he is very nervous if he doesn't have much experience which isn't helping him. So what if he hasn't had much experience with other girls. That means no ex drama, most likely no STD's, and he most likely will put a lot more effort into a relationship than some guy that goes out with a billion ladies!

As far as no physical attraction, that's a tough one...personally I feel I need to be VERY attracted to someone early on or my interest level never gets stronger which isn't fair to the other person. I'm not saying to go for someone that's perfect, but I do believe you have to be somewhat attracted.

What I would do is give it a few more dates, and be open to the fact that he's not sexually proficient at the moment, but over time when you are more comfortable with him you can give him pointers:) if you ask me, you could turn that into a pretty hot session and he can fine tune what turns you on. I'm sure in the back of his mind he's thinking "I'm really messing up...help" at least I did when I was younger when I didn't have a clue lol.

Seems really into you-give it some thought!!!

Edited April 25, 2015 by Mjm1014

April 25, 2015

I have had discussions about things like this with others. I think what happens to us is that we are confusing something. I have met people who are instantly attracted to one another and jump into something quickly. Every one of them regrets it. I have also met others who give the "nice guy / girl" a try and they aren't attracted to them in the least, then lament why they can't attract a quality person.

I think what happens to us is that once you meet that person who you are really attracted to, you confuse a sense of raw sexuality with something that is actual love. There are a lot of men I've been with that I realize that was the problem, we really didn't have much in common other than the sex vibe. And then you don't feel that something for someone you do have things in common with. All I can say is that it's very complicated and it's a delicate situation and balance when you are and aren't with another person.

In your case, give him a try. You may have gotten off at a bad moment or two. If after a few more weeks/months you still aren't feeling IT (and make sure that IT is love not just sex), then it's time to move on. And you will feel good about yourself that you gave it a try rather than quit while you were ahead.

April 25, 2015

Wow, that was quite a story. You've got skills at collecting your thoughts and presenting them coherently, KismetGirl.

Hm ....first the guy. My guess is virgin. Usually someone who has no clue hasn't even had a handful of runins, and due to social stigma and pressure (no offense but a good dose of which you're showing right now), they have endless reasons to try to convince the world they're not virgins. So check and check. Virgin probably.

Now about low experience guys. I've been with a few, and yeah, they can be trained. Actually rather quickly, and they make good students. So I think it's unlikely that his performance would suck so bad for very long. Now, there is that one in 1000 guy who just has no clue and never will, so if that's him, he'll keep up the seizure attacks. But more likely he can improve.

Another clue about these types of people - if he was a straight up virgin, what you saw was likely his absolute first time trying to really do anything substantial with a woman. So yeah, he would suck, and he might seem unreachable for all the reasons you mentioned. But think about it, if you were going to attempt to train a virgin to be a Lothario on the first date, how well do you think he'd improve on the first date? Not much. He's just seeing all this stuff for the first time. So I think you'll find that even on the next go round he may be much improved, just because he's had a chance to process and isn't attempting to be something he's not on the fly.

Now what's needed in order to achieve this - honesty. I'd have a frank discussion with him about it. Give him a chance to come clean, imply that you already know, and make coming clean 'safe.' In other words, he can't think you'll run screaming if you hear the truth. But also don't take anymore bullsh*t, and let him know you won't and that if he continues to mislead you, you'll be done. If he feels okay enough about it, he should be able to fess up and still keep his ego alive, mainly because of your non-judgmental promise.

The way it is now, there's no hope, because it's the blind leading the blind. or a blind guy leading himself. If you both allow the illusion of his 'experience' to persist, he'll keep trying to convince you he's got experience by trying to do stuff he has no clue about, and you'll keep hating it, and nothing will ever get better because he'll just be practicing getting better at sh*t. But if you're honest, he can drop that act and you can begin to teach him. Hopefully mainly just how to relax, get in touch with himself and touch a woman comfortably.

If you're asking if it's worth it, only you can really decide that. But yeah, virgins or quasi-virgins can learn and be decent to good lovers, and it may not even take all that much effort and time. Good sex is mainly just about successful human interaction after all, not 'moves,' so it doesn't have to take long to train. What you're mainly doing is just getting him to relax and let it happen.

Lastly you. Would it be damaging to your ego or somehow beneath your dignity to get into a relationship with a virgin? A lot of women have that hangup. If that's you, I wouldn't load in on this at all obviously. Likewise if you're "too old" or whatever. But do the guy a favor and tell him the truth. If you give him a platitude instead (suddenly too busy for relationships, etc.), he'll know you're not being truthful, but he won't be certain about what you're not being truthful about. That'll leave him more f*cked up than he is now. He's got a decent amount going for him apparently, what with the thoughtfulness and all that, but if he hopes to get anywhere with a relationship, ever, he won't be able to fake the sex part, and he needs to know that. Hopefully at least in his next try he could build up the courage to lead with the fact that he's inexperienced, which is better than making someone figure it out themselves on the second date like you did.

April 25, 2015

I wouldn't say I was head over heels or didnt even really feel any butterflies

As I said, I wasn't super excited about him at first (no particular reason, just wasn't super excited)

told myself sometimes you grow to like someone after you know them more.

Throughout the day I tried to find his positive aspects

After THREE hours of talking on my sofa with drinks (I mean, I was exhausted at this point .. he FINALLY kisses me. What a disappointment....

I wanted so badly to be sexually attracted to him.

I desperatly tried to feign some excitement

There was just no physical connection for me at all

I haven't been that turned off by someone I otherwise kind of liked....almost ever.

I wanted SO badly to have some sexual chemistry with this guy so that we could try to make this work.I know that personality is important and sex isn't everything, but come on....a romantic realtionship needs sex to survive!!! I am a very sexual person, and I can't be with someone that I abhor the thought of even kissing!!

I'm honestly shocked so many people are encouraging the OP to keep going with this, but maybe I'm being too quick. But read the list above and tell me where she likes him? To me she seems to be trying to force herself to like him. All I hear is that he spent a lot on the dates. In another thread, the guy is getting lambasted for spending money on jewelery after a second date - but this guy spending 1/4 his rent on a date is ok. I dunno sometimes....

Even if someone is totally inexperienced, kissing them should not be a complete turnoff.

April 25, 2015

It's up to you. It sounds like you like him and want it to work. You could try to give it a little time and I'm sure he could learn from you if the connection between you two is otherwise good.

I disagree with the above poster about the second date being too soon. I'm a guy, and I personally respect women more who sleep with me on the first date because they really want to than I respect the women who hold out and play games for several weeks because society tells them they shouldn't be sexual. We're adults.

Well sex on the first date I would be too nervous unless I was drinking . I am far from new to sex but woman my age have had at least 15 to 100 partners by now so it a kind of intimidating some what . A lot of woman have a three strikes your out she dump you if your bad in bed.

OP how old are you two? I know woman hate inexperienced guts and all.

Why not give him some time what do you got to lose?

So what he did not take the bull by the horns . I know woman want a guy to go for sex right away now days . It takes a confident guy to do so.

I know I am inexperienced for my age group but not new to sex. That why guys like us have to have a I Do Not Give a F attitude and go for it.

Thus guy needs to swing like Ray Rice and go for it. LOL

April 25, 2015

Wow, a few posts have made me chuckle but none have made me spit my food out! This was the bit that did it for me:

"When he kisses my neck or other parts of me i cant even feel it-- literally, not exaggerating, it is like he just took his face and haphazardly rubbed it on my body parts like someone having a seizure"

Thanks for that.

OK, I might not agree with everything Leigh posts about "chemistry" being the be all and end all, but it is an important part and there obviously is nothing there for you.
To be honest, I can't see why you would even be remotely interested in seeing this guy again.

The fact that the first (and second) dates were so elaborate would actually be a red flag to me - yeah sure, a coffee shop may be a cliche and a bit boring, but for a first date you shouldn't be investing so much time and money.

As to if he is a virgin, it's possible. He may also br gay. Or just really really really terrible with women. It's hard to believe in 2015 with all the tips videos etc available that anyone could be this clueless!

Part of me want you to see him again - if only for more humorous tales, but I think it's only fair to not drag it out for you both.

Yep if you do not have sex with at least 20 females by you 21st birthday your gay. ROLLEYES

April 25, 2015

Ohh this was a good laugh read.

Now seriously. He is very inexperienced, and in my opinion, your "directions" are just distressing to him.. Better slow down with the physical stuff and go watch some romantic movie, erotic if you want, so he can learn by observing others. Or just be the "lead" in al the physical stuff, and sooner or later he'll start to mimic/follow up.

But with all the honesty it will take time, few months probably... It could be worth the effort (he seems like a caring person, but from the writing, you seem to be more attracted to his attention and generosity than to him as a person, excuse me if I'm wrong...)

I've been on both sides. Recently I had to stop seeing a very childish/unexperienced guy like yours (also a good person), mainly because at this point in my life, I was not willing to become the teacher/leader in the relationship. If you have similar thoughts, better stop seeing him now (he can get very "sticky" considering his personality and circumstances...)

Hahaha, glad I could entertain.

I do like him as a person, obviously, on some level. Did I see him and fireworks went off, butterflies were flying, and my heart skipped a beat? No, admittedly. But by that same token I told myself maybe it's ok. Maybe with some people you get to like them more as you know them.

It is important to me to be able to have good conversations with someone. For them to make me laugh.

He has good qualities. For sure he is not my perfect mate, but let's be honest, who is? I have been through my own tumultuous relationships of late. I've chosen guys who ended up not being the right ones for various reasons. Normally I only really want to pursue things with those who give me those fireworks right away, and it hasnt always worked, so I decided lets try to go for a nice guy who maybe isn't rocking my world upon first laying eyes on him. But that doesnt mean I have NO interest of course.

As I said, he has nice qualities. I'm trying to focus on those. His consideration, thoughtfulness, sweetness are of course important. He speaks four languages, he's intelligent. Do I think I am more intelligent? maybe. I dont mena to sound conceited, I'm not. I know my faults. I'm unhappy with many things about me. I have my ups and downs like anyone. But that is often the case anyway. I've accepted that. But we have pretty good talks. We talked a lot over the last couple weeks actually, even if in person this was only our second real date. He's had work obligations (he works and goes to school) that took him out of the city for a couple weeks so we were forced to just speak a lot between dates and between when we first met-- they were sort of spaced out a bit.

Yes, he's a bit nerdy. But I'm ok with nerdy-- hell I'm often inwardly a bit of a nerd even if I dont really look like one. He mentioned that he used to be 20 kilos heavier-- he's actually got quite a nice body now it seems, as he's made effort to work out and etc, but maybe his inner "fat kid" is what I'm seeing....maybe that former self of his did not get with a lot of girls , if any. Maybe he always had bad self esteem and despite improved appearance he still lacks confidence or know-how in how to interact with women physically.

He has often said things that annoy me or seem inexperienced but at the same time English is not his first language (you almost couldnt tell , he speaks it incredibly well), despite how almost perfectly he sounds when he speaks it, in reality no matter how proficient you are in a language if it is not your first there are nuances that are lost, things always lost in translation. But I try to look past those annoying moments to the greater picture.

I am not prepared to spend months with someone I have no romantic potential with-- I don't think I am alone in saying sex is an important part of a romantic relationship. It can't be sustained on creative dates and hand holding. But because it feels like we at least have SOME connection, I am willing to try. I'm not convinced we are romantically compatible yet, but I wouldn't say there's nothing there. Maybe I am also attracted to the fact that he was just so lovely about our actual dates, and his thoughtfulness was so far beyond what most guys do. That is possible,a nd I don't necessarily thing it's an unwarranted response on my part to that, but yes, maybe I like what he has done moreso than him himself. It's a bit hard to tell at the moment to be honest. I just am not sure how to approach it because frankly in my entire life, from the very first guy I slept with at about 18 years old, Ive never been with someone who seemed so much less experienced than me. Never. I generally am with physically confident men who, even if they dont know exactly what I like, they have a good base of knowledge to work with. They can at the very least kiss well. This guy just seems clueless and despite my couple of directions (please believe I was not barking orders at him, I tried mostly very subtly to urge him in a better direction) he was not responding so I am really trying to see if perhaps others have a better approach I have not yet thought of.

It's sad that maybe I will have to end it. Part of me was thrilled to meet a nice guy so quickly after coming back here and starting this new gig. But I suppose you can't force it. I'll try another date or two, but I really need a good insight as to how to approach this physical side with him...I don't want to crush his confidence completely of course, but I do need to see if he just needs a bit of a good direction, or if he's completely hopeless!

April 25, 2015

Wow, a few posts have made me chuckle but none have made me spit my food out! This was the bit that did it for me:

"When he kisses my neck or other parts of me i cant even feel it-- literally, not exaggerating, it is like he just took his face and haphazardly rubbed it on my body parts like someone having a seizure"

Thanks for that.

OK, I might not agree with everything Leigh posts about "chemistry" being the be all and end all, but it is an important part and there obviously is nothing there for you.
To be honest, I can't see why you would even be remotely interested in seeing this guy again.

The fact that the first (and second) dates were so elaborate would actually be a red flag to me - yeah sure, a coffee shop may be a cliche and a bit boring, but for a first date you shouldn't be investing so much time and money.

As to if he is a virgin, it's possible. He may also br gay. Or just really really really terrible with women. It's hard to believe in 2015 with all the tips videos etc available that anyone could be this clueless!

Part of me want you to see him again - if only for more humorous tales, but I think it's only fair to not drag it out for you both.

I agree with you a bit on the red flag-- it is a bit hard to tell if his dates are so elaborate because he is truly just so thoughtful, or if he has so little experience that his desire to be with a girl has turned him into a bit of a hopeless romantic, thus making him go to such great lengths for one he obviously likes right away.

Our first date started off "cliched" with a drink (even though I suggested the really pretty location by the beach)...but he's the one who brought the blanket and bottle of wine and suggested a little seaside picnic after our first drink, and presumably, seeing me again after our first numbers exchange and realising he really likes me.

Our second date, albeit after a lot of talking on phone and texts, was very elaborate. Three hours of driving to the country each way, nature reserves, romantic secluded restaurants, and honestly I almost felt uncomfortable with the amount of money he spent on the date. I saw the amount on the bill at the restaurant and immediately tried to insist he take money from me, because I know the guy is not rich or something, and he outright refused, repeatedly, the whole day when I offered to pay for things. At the time I thought , what a gentleman, but maybe he's so desperate to impress me (because he is so inexperienced....?) that this is why the elaborate dates and money spending. I have no idea.

if he was some lothario, rich guy I wouldnt think twice about the elaborate plans I suppose. But I know this stuff is a bit beyond his usual means, and perhaps is why I am wondering about his experience , and also feeling almost like I owe it to him to give him a chance!

Please don't take that the wrong way. I do like him. I'm not trying to see him again because he spent a lot of money on me. I think his actions just sort of instill a few different emotions in me at the moment that I am trying to come to a resolution with. He is so obviously into me. On a scale of 1-10 with 10 being "the most you've ever been enamoured with a person" he seems like he deems me a 10, no hesitation.

Me? I deem him a 4-5, maybe, and part of that is because of how much effort he is putting in. And really just because I have been really enamoured with people from the get-go before and I guess I am comparing that feeling, whether that is fair or not. It just seems unequal to me so much from the start that I am worried that maybe we will never meet in the middle and be closely entranced with each other.

Sigh.

April 25, 2015

I don't blame you. I wouldn't want to be with a woman who was that clueless sexually either. It's one thing to learn someone's preferences and certain triggers. But on a basic level, you can tell right away if someone knows what they're doing.

But I do think your picker is seriously broken. I mean you say that it was nice this guy didnt try to get you into bed on date one like all the others, but those others are the ones you were attracted to. Hopefully you meet a gentleman with balls with bedroom skills (I probably don't live near you. )

Lol. You probably do not, no. Thought crazier things have happened.

Honestly I don't mean to sound horrid but I want a guy who knows what he is doing. I never had to teach anyone when I was a teenager, when I was in college....so why, now, in my 30's, would I want to teach someone?? I am an incredibly sexual person. I'd even go so far as to say I'm pretty darn proficient carnally. But I need someone who can respond a bit to me, and this guy just....didn't. Even with my cues, my suggestions, my subtle hints...he just didn't get anything. My descriptions are humorous, yes, I've got that writer's flair for telling my story but in seriousness it was quite a sad display of events. I've never been so disappointed by someone I have talked to this much and actually had a pretty good time with otheriwse!

I'd say when I was very young and inexperienced myself, many moons ago, there were of course sexual situations in which the sex was not good, in which I was bored, and in which I tolerated because I was young and didn't know better. I mean hell, I remember one time when I was about 20 I was so bored by an encounter that I thought in my head "I'm giving him a few minutes to finish or I can't deal with how dull this is anymore, I just want to eat something and go to sleep" and actually watched the TV in the background (even remember the show...) until he was done because I didn't want to hurt his feelings. That sounds crass and mildly amusing but it is what it is.

I don't have patience for that anymore but, BECAUSE he is so nice, thoughtful, kind, we have good conversations, etc I am willing to try a bit more with this one, but there's only so much I can do right?

April 25, 2015

It's up to you. It sounds like you like him and want it to work. You could try to give it a little time and I'm sure he could learn from you if the connection between you two is otherwise good.

I disagree with the above poster about the second date being too soon. I'm a guy, and I personally respect women more who sleep with me on the first date because they really want to than I respect the women who hold out and play games for several weeks because society tells them they shouldn't be sexual. We're adults.

THANK YOU. And you're the kind of guy I end up dating. Because if someone is going to judge me badly for something THEY ARE ALSO DOING, I mean really...that makes no sense. I hate games! Just do what feels right. Sometimes it feels right to wait a little-- I've certainly held out many dates for whatever reasons. Sometimes it just felt right right away. The last guy I dated long-term, I slept with him not only on the first date, but I think it was like 4 hours after we met. That's not the norm for me necessarily, but at that moment, I don't know. It just worked.

I dated him for an entire year and change, and even though it didn't work out, it was certainly NOT because of how we started....

Edited April 25, 2015 by KismetGirl

April 25, 2015

Be honest and upfront with him and tell him that you would like to work things out with him by actually teaching him.

It sounds unromantic but if you teach exactly how to do things, he will become your perfect lover. Give him a chance. Sure, you'll go out and meet someone who knows what they're doing but they probably won't treat you like a lady like he did.

That's my thinking in some ways I guess. He was the perfect gentleman really. In some ways it almost feels like he tried to make moves on this date because I gave the impression I wanted it, not because he's so comfortable with sex itself. Decisions. How to nicely say "are you really inexperienced" without hurting the guy's feelings?? lol.

April 25, 2015

Haha.. So every guy that's confident, assertive, and sexually skilled will mistreat women? Yeah..OK.

I don't think that's what they meant :-)

I think they just meant that because this guy was such a gentleman and so nice in other ways that I should give him more of a chance and pass with the less sexually experienced part. Which Im considering just....gah. Don't know.

April 25, 2015

Op I skimmed your post since I need to get to bed for work in the morning...but honestly, give the guy a chance. Sure he might have no idea what to do sexually at the moment, but maybe he will get better once he gets to know you...also I'm sure he is very nervous if he doesn't have much experience which isn't helping him. So what if he hasn't had much experience with other girls. That means no ex drama, most likely no STD's, and he most likely will put a lot more effort into a relationship than some guy that goes out with a billion ladies!

As far as no physical attraction, that's a tough one...personally I feel I need to be VERY attracted to someone early on or my interest level never gets stronger which isn't fair to the other person. I'm not saying to go for someone that's perfect, but I do believe you have to be somewhat attracted.

What I would do is give it a few more dates, and be open to the fact that he's not sexually proficient at the moment, but over time when you are more comfortable with him you can give him pointers:) if you ask me, you could turn that into a pretty hot session and he can fine tune what turns you on. I'm sure in the back of his mind he's thinking "I'm really messing up...help" at least I did when I was younger when I didn't have a clue lol.

Seems really into you-give it some thought!!!

Well, yes, I do have "somewhat" of an attraction That's the only reason im even having this discussion (aside from the nice way he treated me). Obviosuly if I thought he was hideous I wouldn't even bother with the second date.

But yes I will admit it's not an intense attraction. i was more excited about going on a nice day trip than with necessarily seeing him again. I don't mean I didn't want to see him again, but it was more like the looking-forward to going on a trip with a friend than a potential boyfriend. We held hands walking through the nature reserve which was romantic and cute but was I super excited it was HIM. I guess not as much as I felt with the last guy I dated regularly.

But god, I spend so much time with people I have an intense attraction to but it doesnt work out, that I say, well, maybe give this one a chance, right?

but maybe I am lying to myself. Maybe if I know I'm the kind of person who needs that intense spark from day one, that I'm wasting both of our times. I really dont know. I guess that's something I need to think about.

April 25, 2015

I have had discussions about things like this with others. I think what happens to us is that we are confusing something. I have met people who are instantly attracted to one another and jump into something quickly. Every one of them regrets it. I have also met others who give the "nice guy / girl" a try and they aren't attracted to them in the least, then lament why they can't attract a quality person.

I think what happens to us is that once you meet that person who you are really attracted to, you confuse a sense of raw sexuality with something that is actual love. There are a lot of men I've been with that I realize that was the problem, we really didn't have much in common other than the sex vibe. And then you don't feel that something for someone you do have things in common with. All I can say is that it's very complicated and it's a delicate situation and balance when you are and aren't with another person.

In your case, give him a try. You may have gotten off at a bad moment or two. If after a few more weeks/months you still aren't feeling IT (and make sure that IT is love not just sex), then it's time to move on. And you will feel good about yourself that you gave it a try rather than quit while you were ahead.

Yes you said it perfectly-- those other guys it didnt work out with, maybe i was so into them sexually/attraction-wise off the bat that I ignored their lapses in other areas and its why it didnt work out. I dont know. And then you meet the nice guys who you feel a little physical attraction to (but not intensely as with this guy) and you wonder if its enough.

In both cases its hard to discern what to do. It's just that with the former case you have that excitement, which is energising, and makes you want to move forward. In the latter you lack that energy and you find yourself intellectualizing why it's best to give it a try. In both cases maybe it doesnt work.

Then again I suppose finding that person with the perfect balance of both is so elusive that this is why it is hard to find the one, right?

I feel like I will feel better if I try to give it a chance. I am a nice person. I have had my heart broken plenty of times. I'm not saying he is in love with me after two weeks of knowing me, but he obviously is quite enamoured. I hate to reject people because I know how it feels, and particularly after someone is putting such effort into me.

As I said I certainly cannot spend months on this person. Not even more weeks to be honest. But maybe another date or two...just need to best way to approach it!

April 25, 2015

My guess is virgin.

I doubt it, after all, his g/f's lasted a year, don't tell me he's not done anything with them in that year.

April 25, 2015

You gave me a fantastic post jen, so thank you for that.

Im a bit hesitant to just outright imply he's a virgin (he could just suck, or be less experienced, as opposed to totally a virgin), and I dont want to totally ruin his confidence of course. I mentioned in another post that he may very well have low self esteem-- he mentioned the other night he used to be like 20 kilos heavier (over 44 pounds heavier), which you'd never know because he's quite fit now but people often carry that "inner fat kid" low self esteem with them when they look better. He's also a single child raised by a single mom (and might I add his mother calls him several times a day, every day, bothering him for help with things....he rolls his eyes about it but obviously he's a little bit of a momma's boy, which is ok because one should not ignore their parents of course...). When we were walking around holding hands here and there, the first night on the beach he said "wow its nice to be able to do these romantic things with someone"-- so I guess he doesnt go out with people much if he's so excited to have someone to do these things with. But anyway he gives me a plethora of things that indicate low confidence.

When I told him the other night "look i actually cant even feel it when you kiss me" he looked a bit hurt and said wow no one ever said that to me before. So Im hesitant to outright say "dude, you act like a freaking virgin" but i do think I need to somehow maybe say "there is a certain way I like kissing and sex, and I really like you a lot so I want to experience this with you, but do you think you can try doing it this way for me" or something along those lines. Maybe that would work? I dont even know anymore.

He's definitely given the impression he knows what he's doing. I am a medical person, and I am outgoing about sexual discussions, and tend to be frank when discussing them in general. So in one of our conversations he was teaching me medical terms for sexual body parts in his language, in good fun, and of course when he taught me the word for 'clitoris' I made a joke that it's good they have a word for it because most men can't find it, or something stupid like this. My point is that his response to that joke was a very serious "I know exactly where it is", implying he knows what he's doing, and my god, as I said in my first post by my description of his failed over-panty oral sex simulations, he clearly does not.

Honestly Im not the kind of chick who gets off on being the teacher. The fact that he is four years younger than me is even weird, and its not a big age difference. Im used to (mostly) older guys or at least those my age, and the few guys that have been younger-ish than me have been surprisingly well-versed in what they were doing for the most part. I dont want to be a teacher of any kind but Im willing to maybe try it once because he does have so many other nice things going for him and he likes me so much that maybe it would be worth it to get past the initial discomfort. But I am admittedly feeling awkward myself as to the best approach for this. Im just not naturally the teacher type. If anything, I know it doesnt sound like it from how I write, but sexually I actually prefer to be a bit submissive. Not as in I lay there doing nothing of course, but I prefer the submissive position in the sexual dynamic, which is why I am somewhat not enthralled with the idea of being teacher which is inherently the dominant position (even though I tried last night just for the sake of moving it along).

You're right , I do not want to placate him with stories about how Im not ready for a relationship because it will be an obvious lie. I don't want to hurt his feelings either.

I guess at the end of the day I want to just have a sexually confident take-control guy in the bedroom who is still sweet and romantic outside of it. I'm a forward, independent, opinionated chick in my life mostly, but want a "man" in my sex life. Ya know?

Argh. I guess if it was easy to find everything in one person dating wouldnt be so hard, but man, this really disappointed me more than most. Ive had guys I hooked up with disappear and I didnt care much because I thought, meh, well, they're kind of jerks anyway so who cares, I had fun and on to the next. But this guy was so nice, so sweet, so fantastic in every other way that I really wanted us to be compatible sexually and when it was a total disaster the other night...what a let down!

Wow, that was quite a story. You've got skills at collecting your thoughts and presenting them coherently, KismetGirl.

Hm ....first the guy. My guess is virgin. Usually someone who has no clue hasn't even had a handful of runins, and due to social stigma and pressure (no offense but a good dose of which you're showing right now), they have endless reasons to try to convince the world they're not virgins. So check and check. Virgin probably.

Now about low experience guys. I've been with a few, and yeah, they can be trained. Actually rather quickly, and they make good students. So I think it's unlikely that his performance would suck so bad for very long. Now, there is that one in 1000 guy who just has no clue and never will, so if that's him, he'll keep up the seizure attacks. But more likely he can improve.

Another clue about these types of people - if he was a straight up virgin, what you saw was likely his absolute first time trying to really do anything substantial with a woman. So yeah, he would suck, and he might seem unreachable for all the reasons you mentioned. But think about it, if you were going to attempt to train a virgin to be a Lothario on the first date, how well do you think he'd improve on the first date? Not much. He's just seeing all this stuff for the first time. So I think you'll find that even on the next go round he may be much improved, just because he's had a chance to process and isn't attempting to be something he's not on the fly.

Now what's needed in order to achieve this - honesty. I'd have a frank discussion with him about it. Give him a chance to come clean, imply that you already know, and make coming clean 'safe.' In other words, he can't think you'll run screaming if you hear the truth. But also don't take anymore bullsh*t, and let him know you won't and that if he continues to mislead you, you'll be done. If he feels okay enough about it, he should be able to fess up and still keep his ego alive, mainly because of your non-judgmental promise.

The way it is now, there's no hope, because it's the blind leading the blind. or a blind guy leading himself. If you both allow the illusion of his 'experience' to persist, he'll keep trying to convince you he's got experience by trying to do stuff he has no clue about, and you'll keep hating it, and nothing will ever get better because he'll just be practicing getting better at sh*t. But if you're honest, he can drop that act and you can begin to teach him. Hopefully mainly just how to relax, get in touch with himself and touch a woman comfortably.

If you're asking if it's worth it, only you can really decide that. But yeah, virgins or quasi-virgins can learn and be decent to good lovers, and it may not even take all that much effort and time. Good sex is mainly just about successful human interaction after all, not 'moves,' so it doesn't have to take long to train. What you're mainly doing is just getting him to relax and let it happen.

Lastly you. Would it be damaging to your ego or somehow beneath your dignity to get into a relationship with a virgin? A lot of women have that hangup. If that's you, I wouldn't load in on this at all obviously. Likewise if you're "too old" or whatever. But do the guy a favor and tell him the truth. If you give him a platitude instead (suddenly too busy for relationships, etc.), he'll know you're not being truthful, but he won't be certain about what you're not being truthful about. That'll leave him more f*cked up than he is now. He's got a decent amount going for him apparently, what with the thoughtfulness and all that, but if he hopes to get anywhere with a relationship, ever, he won't be able to fake the sex part, and he needs to know that. Hopefully at least in his next try he could build up the courage to lead with the fact that he's inexperienced, which is better than making someone figure it out themselves on the second date like you did.

April 25, 2015

I wouldn't say I was head over heels or didnt even really feel any butterflies
As I said, I wasn't super excited about him at first (no particular reason, just wasn't super excited)
told myself sometimes you grow to like someone after you know them more.
Throughout the day I tried to find his positive aspects
After THREE hours of talking on my sofa with drinks (I mean, I was exhausted at this point .. he FINALLY kisses me. What a disappointment....
I wanted so badly to be sexually attracted to him.
I desperatly tried to feign some excitement
There was just no physical connection for me at all
I haven't been that turned off by someone I otherwise kind of liked....almost ever.
I wanted SO badly to have some sexual chemistry with this guy so that we could try to make this work.I know that personality is important and sex isn't everything, but come on....a romantic realtionship needs sex to survive!!! I am a very sexual person, and I can't be with someone that I abhor the thought of even kissing!!

I'm honestly shocked so many people are encouraging the OP to keep going with this, but maybe I'm being too quick. But read the list above and tell me where she likes him? To me she seems to be trying to force herself to like him. All I hear is that he spent a lot on the dates. In another thread, the guy is getting lambasted for spending money on jewelery after a second date - but this guy spending 1/4 his rent on a date is ok. I dunno sometimes....

Even if someone is totally inexperienced, kissing them should not be a complete turnoff.

To be fair his rent is not astronomical (he told me what it was which is why i was using it as a gauge comparison), but still yes he spent quite a lot , though to be fair it was a day long outing get away rather than a few hours in the city. Either way he put a LOT of effort in very quickly.

You are right in some ways. Im not in love. Im not even in lust or extreme like. I dont dislike him and am tryig to tell myself to give the nice guy a chance. I won't repeat everything from other responses but you get the idea from them. It's not a lost cause but it's not clear cut, how I feel.

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Nice guy but no sexual chemistry....try to teach or don't bother?

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