What's wrong with me?

[ww_girl]

I agree that kids would be better off with divorce in a situation like this IF their parents are two happy & solid people. It's a naive misconception that divorce will turn unhappy, emotionally immature people into happy & well balanced people. It's very rare IMO, for marriages affected by infidelity to involve two emotionally healthy people. Unless the marriage is abusive, divorce is not usually helpful to the kids if the parents underlying character issues are not addressed.

 

Many times, a divorce results in two miserable people in different places, focusing on getting their new lives started, instead of helping their kids. Most people who are selfish enough to cheat (and put their kids stability at risk), aren't going to suddenly morph into a selfless person who puts their kids first. They are the ones that will bring their boyfriend over too soon because they're lonely & can't find a babysitter. They are the ones that are so focused on their love lives that they neglect to see that their kids are hurting. They are the ones that get so consumed by their emotions they'll spend an entire evening in their bedroom crying when their boyfriend disappoints them.

 

So in a perfect world, it would be great if this couple could divorce, focus on their kids well being and stability, and create two separate stable & happy homes. I just don't think that's realistic.

 

The sad truth is that the kids will be negatively affected either way, so the question becomes, what is the lesser of two evils? They will still have a selfish mom and dad wherever they live because both spouses in this scenario have issues.

 

I know many divorced people and children of divorce. The ones raised in dysfunctional homes think their lives would've been better had their parents divorced, but the reality is they likely would've fared worse. Those dysfunctional parents would've still had their same unhealthy traits, they'd just be focused on their new dysfunctional love interests. The people whose parents do divorce often say they weren't affected negatively, but time & time again they have low self worth issues evident by the choices they make in their lives. My observations have led me to the conclusion that the problems these kids/adults have don't come from their parents divorcing or staying married. The problems are because they have at least one emotionally dysfunctional parent, who is very selfish. Whether married or single.

 

The kids will likely have issues either way when their parents allow their problems to rain all over their kids instead of protecting them and being the best person they can possibly be for them. The bottom line is that parents need to make a commitment to resolve their individual issues (it can takes years of therapy), if you want to be a good parent to your kids. This way, whether you are married or divorced, you are solid & stable enough to be the kind of parent they need. If you do remain married, marriage counseling is needed in addition to individual counseling.

 

Parenting is so much more than being nice, giving hugs and providing. You have to be a good model for your kids. As much as people protest "I'll never be like my parents", most will either repeat similar mistakes, have horrible coping skills or they'll have low self worth and make really bad choices, especially in their relationships. They'll be on LS in 20 years trying to make sense of it all. The cycle can be broken, but it takes effort, introspection, self awareness and tons of therapy.

 

Yeah... I've gone back and forth a million times in my head on what's better/what's worse for the kids. I've wondered what H and and I have taught them about relationships so far... that they're mostly a plutonic friendship? Honestly, I don't know what a healthy relationship SHOULD look like to kids. H and I don't fight much... I came from an abusive home and I don't do well with confrontation, especially yelling, and he knows that. Usually the most we'll do is make a snarky comment. So I worry that I've taught them that you don't fight with people you love, when I should be teaching them that you need to stand up for yourself and that if you fight with someone it doesn't mean you don't love each other (thus far they seem to have no hesitation to fight with each other).

 

So far, I don't think the kids know anything. Thought of course they probably sense something is wrong.

 

There are just so many ramifications to them if we get divorced... financial issues, emotional issues, separation issues. Would we be able to afford all the activities they do now? How do I save for them going to college? How will it affect them if we move to a condo versus a house? Will they think it's somehow their fault? Is it a stigma nowadays to having divorced parents? How do they (and I, and H) cope with not seeing each other every day?

 

My 7-year-old already has issues. She has asthma and eczema and food allergies and has had other health issues, and honestly I think we just spoiled her and now she doesn't like to be told "no." But she also has some sensory issues. So we've been working on all that and our parenting skills (with a counselor). We're keeping lots of therapists in business these days. But how would divorcing affect her?

 

I've been thinking that if we separate H should stay in the house with the kids (since I'm the one who F'ed up). Plus, if I was there it would be a double whammy of wanting Mommy/Home and they wouldn't want to go with H. He doesn't deserve that. Rent would probably be the same as the mortgage. We agreed we would split time 50/50 as much as possible, and each of us try to see/talk to them almost every day.

 

Sounds like I have one foot out the door, but really, I think we both need to be okay with divorce as an option. If we're both terrified of it, we'll stay for the wrong reasons. Although, honestly I'm really confused about what the right/wrong reasons are anymore. I know it wasn't an option to me before, mostly because of the kids but for lots of other reasons too, and so I convinced myself that I was getting something I needed while NOT putting the kids' stability at risk. Which wasn't the case at all.

[seibert253]

In all honesty I do not understand why just don't divorce

 

^^^^^^

This.

You've never had a happy M, and in your eyes never will.

Do the right thing. Stop stringing you H along and be done with it already.

[spanz1]

so you had a sexless marriage, but when pushed by your affairs, your husband turns out to have a bondage fetish?

 

It sounds like you BOTH want sex, but have very different ideas of what that means. you did not like his brand of bondage because he wanted you to act a submissive while being bound and gagged, while you wanted the bondage to only accentuate sex acts to get yourself to orgasm.

 

It seems like there has to be some common ground for you both to be satisfied. I was thinking seriously trying an open marriage, where you get physical sex and good orgasms, and he gets to find a bondage sub to tie up and enjoy. and where your interests overlap (vanilla sex, taking care of the kids, etc) you just go on like it used to be. Formally making an open marriage arrangement, with strict boundaries, can solve his jealousy of you. You DID say he was very relieved when he found out it was not an emotional affair, and only for physical sex!

 

You probably have NOt scratched the surface of his bondage kinks though. So be prepared for what he really wants to do. he might want male bondage subs, some masochism, etc. so talk it thru, and establish YOUR boundaries on his kinky behavior too.

[Spectre]

Why try an open marriage? If she loved him she would of never cheated. Zero point in saving this "marriage" if that is what you want to call it. Then again me calling a duck a lion doesn't magically transform the duck into a lion.

[ww_girl]

so you had a sexless marriage, but when pushed by your affairs, your husband turns out to have a bondage fetish?

 

It sounds like you BOTH want sex, but have very different ideas of what that means. you did not like his brand of bondage because he wanted you to act a submissive while being bound and gagged, while you wanted the bondage to only accentuate sex acts to get yourself to orgasm.

 

It seems like there has to be some common ground for you both to be satisfied. I was thinking seriously trying an open marriage, where you get physical sex and good orgasms, and he gets to find a bondage sub to tie up and enjoy. and where your interests overlap (vanilla sex, taking care of the kids, etc) you just go on like it used to be. Formally making an open marriage arrangement, with strict boundaries, can solve his jealousy of you. You DID say he was very relieved when he found out it was not an emotional affair, and only for physical sex!

 

You probably have NOt scratched the surface of his bondage kinks though. So be prepared for what he really wants to do. he might want male bondage subs, some masochism, etc. so talk it thru, and establish YOUR boundaries on his kinky behavior too.

 

Thanks, spanz1.

 

Actually, H always had a bondage fetish and I knew it early on. I told him years ago I'd be happy to try that if he wanted to, but he didn't want to. He decided he wanted to try it a couple of months after I asked him for an open marriage. And in the meantime, I had started the affairs.

 

I actually had a D/s relationship with my first AP. Not all the time, and I think WE barely scratched the surface. We never had sex and I never had an orgasm. With either AP actually. And I don't mind H's brand of fetish. It's sort of relaxing. I think D/s appeals to me because I feel like I'm in charge of everything all the time, and it's nice to let all that go.

 

I do find H to be an awfully polite Dominant though. And unfortunately, based on the evidence I've found over the years, I DO think we've pretty much covered his bondage kinks. I know his mom and sister and can see why he'd want to gag a woman, haha (they're nice, just very talkative and bossy!). Aside from this one thing, he's extremely vanilla. And I am not.

 

But you're right - I do want physical sex, and a good orgasm would certainly be appreciated.

 

It sounds like you BOTH want sex, but have very different ideas of what that means. I think this is key. At least as far as the sex part goes. With his ED and weight issues, we need to redefine sex. My IC has been telling me that, but I didn't want to listen.

 

But all that said... I'm coming to the realization that our problems go way beyond sex. It's self esteem and weight and intimacy and communication and fear of aging and death and all sorts of things. Lots of work to do if we want to work this out.

[wizer]

He tied you up and ballgagged you and forced you to watch TV.

 

No wonder you cheat on him.

[bigman1]

I just finished the onerous task of unraveling poser cords, computer cords, printer cords and a bunch of other crap that had gotten all twisted up. It was a rats nest of cables and cords. Everything worked and I took out all of the old wireless routers from all of the old ISP providers. It was a mess and took a lot of patience.

 

I tell you this because that sounds like your life. A bunch of stuff that works, stuff that needs to be thrown out, stuff that needs to be plugged back in, etc.

 

You have married, by your admission and boring, lazy, self absorbed, smelly, sexually boring man. I gotta ask why? I also have to ask are you really that much of a prize? I'm not being mean when I ask that. I ask it because you need to make sure that you are not transferring some of your own self-loathing onto him. That is not to say that you are self loathing, but that is an all too familiar pattern. Lazy folks criticize folks for being lazy, etc. Also, birds of a feather flock together.

 

Still, unravel your life. Your kids can thrive with you all divorced. This is not the 1800's. Heck, the divorce rate is near 50% now. What kids cannot thrive in is an environment of messed up parents. Right now, you and H are messed up. Fix yourself and maybe you fix your relationship. Once I worked through some cords, I realized that I had a high quality desk top computer that my kid could use. It had just been gathering dust. Your BH needs to fix himself as well. Whether you divorce or work it out, if you all are still messed up, then your kids will suffer.

 

Lastly, on the sex side. Come on. You are a Dom and your BH has a foot fetish and some bondage fantasies. You want a good orgasm but have cheated with folks who did not give you any orgasms? Seriously, there is something wrong. One of your tangled cords needs a sex therapist. He needs a bath and maybe a change in diet to cut the odor. This thing is so fixable and so broke at the same time. Good luck.

[Spectre]

The way you talk it's like you don't even like your husband, and you sure don't act like you respect him.

 

I acknowledge your H has a ton of problems too and did a lot of things wrong, but in the end he still didn't deserve to be cheated on. Set him free, set yourself free. I hate to say this, but your marriage has failed. You guys just didn't communicate about your needs the way you should of..and now this is where you are. It shows why communication is so important.

 

I hate it when a person tries to martyr themselves, to suffer in silence, when they have no legit reason to do so, since it's disrespectful to think a divorce in itself will mess up your kids lives. It's disrespectful to all the children successfully raised by parents who divorced. I think divorce is one of the things that basically makes it gut check time, allows people to show who the REAL parents are and who the bad ones are. Real parents can make a divorce work, and make sure their kids are well taken care of and that they know they are loved.

 

Also why don't parents realize that your happiness/overall state of mind has a huge effect on your kids? So the whole suffering in silence bit doesn't help at all.

[toolforgrowth]

Yeah... I've gone back and forth a million times in my head on what's better/what's worse for the kids. I've wondered what H and and I have taught them about relationships so far... that they're mostly a plutonic friendship? Honestly, I don't know what a healthy relationship SHOULD look like to kids. H and I don't fight much... I came from an abusive home and I don't do well with confrontation, especially yelling, and he knows that. Usually the most we'll do is make a snarky comment. So I worry that I've taught them that you don't fight with people you love, when I should be teaching them that you need to stand up for yourself and that if you fight with someone it doesn't mean you don't love each other (thus far they seem to have no hesitation to fight with each other).

 

I think this behavior is teaching them to be conflict-avoidant. It's one thing to fight with your siblings, but entirely another to fight with your spouse/partner. Sure, there are disagreements...that's part of life. But they're learning from you and your H. They're watching you avoid conflict. I learned it from my parents, and I avoided conflict with my xWW.

 

It got me cheated on. I'm sensing a pattern here.

 

So far, I don't think the kids know anything. Thought of course they probably sense something is wrong.

 

There are just so many ramifications to them if we get divorced... financial issues, emotional issues, separation issues. Would we be able to afford all the activities they do now? How do I save for them going to college? How will it affect them if we move to a condo versus a house? Will they think it's somehow their fault? Is it a stigma nowadays to having divorced parents? How do they (and I, and H) cope with not seeing each other every day?

These are the questions you should have asked yourself before you had an affair. But you didn't. And now the reality sets in. My xWW tried to manipulate me into taking her back after her A ended by using the kids. She said, "The kids have suffered enough." And I said "yes, they have. They've suffered by having two parents who don't really love each other in a dysfunctional relationship; the example that has been set for them is terrible. The cycle needs to end."

 

Of course, this came after I decided I was no longer going to be a part of my ex step daughter's life. This may sound cold and callous, but my response was, and still remains, "Too bad, so sad. You destroyed our family by having an affair. What happens to your kid, whom I didn't sire and have no legal obligation towards, is none of my concern."

 

My 7-year-old already has issues. She has asthma and eczema and food allergies and has had other health issues, and honestly I think we just spoiled her and now she doesn't like to be told "no." But she also has some sensory issues. So we've been working on all that and our parenting skills (with a counselor). We're keeping lots of therapists in business these days. But how would divorcing affect her?

Very negatively, most likely. This is what happens when you have children with man you weren't really into in the first place. Just ask my xWW.

 

I've been thinking that if we separate H should stay in the house with the kids (since I'm the one who F'ed up). Plus, if I was there it would be a double whammy of wanting Mommy/Home and they wouldn't want to go with H. He doesn't deserve that. Rent would probably be the same as the mortgage. We agreed we would split time 50/50 as much as possible, and each of us try to see/talk to them almost every day.

This is very promising, and probably one of the best decisions you could have made. I've been giving you both barrels thus far in this post, but I give you major kudos here. Your husband has major issues, I'll definitely grant you that. But yes, your affair made things a million times worse. This right here is a very honorable thing to do.

 

Sounds like I have one foot out the door, but really, I think we both need to be okay with divorce as an option. If we're both terrified of it, we'll stay for the wrong reasons. Although, honestly I'm really confused about what the right/wrong reasons are anymore. I know it wasn't an option to me before, mostly because of the kids but for lots of other reasons too, and so I convinced myself that I was getting something I needed while NOT putting the kids' stability at risk. Which wasn't the case at all.

This is very good insight into your motivations, and you're seeing the consequences clearly. I think your M needs to be bagged and tagged. Yes, your kids will be in pain. But that's life; it's not fair for either adults or children.

 

I've been split from my xWW for 3.5 years now. Just two weeks ago, my little girl said "Daddy, it's sad that you and Mommy don't love each other anymore." It breaks my heart, because I know that she wants us to get back together again, and that in the end, I'm the one saying no. I made the decision to tell my xWW to go **** herself when she reached her hand out to me, and to stand by it to this day. I want nothing to do with her ever again. And while my little girl is extremely well adjusted, highly intelligent, very well behaved, gets excellent grades, and is just so so sweet natured, I have to live with the knowledge that I'm the one who is standing in the way of her having her biggest wish come true: having her family back together again.

 

I tried, I really tried. I begged my xWW to go to MC. She went to two sessions. The entire time she was banging her OM. No wonder why she didn't try. But when I found out about her A, that was it. I was done. There was absolutely no going back.

 

On the flip side, I wonder what my xWW feels when our daughter tells her that same thing. Does she feel shame, regret, and remorse, knowing that she so effectively killed any love I once had for her that I would rather our daughter grow up being split between her parents than to spend even thirty seconds in the same room with her? I honestly don't know.

 

Your kids will feel it. They'll feel it for many years to come. This is what happens.

 

I don't know what path you or your H will ultimately choose. But you need to be prepared for what will come as a result of that choice.

[Amaimono]

Don't ask what is wrong with yourself. You are quite normal and I'm sure there are many more out there that have the same feelings.

For all the people that say stop stringing H along and just get a divorce, it's really not that simple. There are always other factors involved. Yes you can still love and care for somebody and have desires for others.

For all the people that say you must not have loved H in the first place, how can they possible know what you were feeling at the time your relationship started or even now.

I'm in sort of the same situation myself minus the affairs. 45, 2 kids all that. I have only just started to take an interest in sex due to factors that have happened over my 26year marriage. My H has never lost hope but I feel undesired and unattractive most of the time, however during our years together H has slept with 1 other person. I know this to be true because I was there, as he thought it would help our sex live.

He is mostly a wonderful H and great Father but I fell like I'm missing something and for me there is no spark. I have tried playing games and dress ups.

Deep inside me I feel that if I had the attention of another man I would feel sexy again. Whether this happens or not it's how I feel.

So I can totally understand that you changed your dress style and had an affair. You just want to feel again.

I can see the most important thing is to make sure your kids are going to be ok. This is going to be harder if you or H bring another person into their lives, and I can't comment here cause it's going to be tough no matter what you or H do.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Amaimono
Acciedently pressed button newbie syndrome

[Lion Heart]

I think this behavior is teaching them to be conflict-avoidant. It's one thing to fight with your siblings, but entirely another to fight with your spouse/partner. Sure, there are disagreements...that's part of life. But they're learning from you and your H. They're watching you avoid conflict. I learned it from my parents, and I avoided conflict with my xWW.

 

It got me cheated on. I'm sensing a pattern here.

 

These are the questions you should have asked yourself before you had an affair. But you didn't. And now the reality sets in. My xWW tried to manipulate me into taking her back after her A ended by using the kids. She said, "The kids have suffered enough." And I said "yes, they have. They've suffered by having two parents who don't really love each other in a dysfunctional relationship; the example that has been set for them is terrible. The cycle needs to end."

 

Of course, this came after I decided I was no longer going to be a part of my ex step daughter's life. This may sound cold and callous, but my response was, and still remains, "Too bad, so sad. You destroyed our family by having an affair. What happens to your kid, whom I didn't sire and have no legal obligation towards, is none of my concern."

 

Very negatively, most likely. This is what happens when you have children with man you weren't really into in the first place. Just ask my xWW.

 

This is very promising, and probably one of the best decisions you could have made. I've been giving you both barrels thus far in this post, but I give you major kudos here. Your husband has major issues, I'll definitely grant you that. But yes, your affair made things a million times worse. This right here is a very honorable thing to do.

 

This is very good insight into your motivations, and you're seeing the consequences clearly. I think your M needs to be bagged and tagged. Yes, your kids will be in pain. But that's life; it's not fair for either adults or children.

 

I've been split from my xWW for 3.5 years now. Just two weeks ago, my little girl said "Daddy, it's sad that you and Mommy don't love each other anymore." It breaks my heart, because I know that she wants us to get back together again, and that in the end, I'm the one saying no. I made the decision to tell my xWW to go **** herself when she reached her hand out to me, and to stand by it to this day. I want nothing to do with her ever again. And while my little girl is extremely well adjusted, highly intelligent, very well behaved, gets excellent grades, and is just so so sweet natured, I have to live with the knowledge that I'm the one who is standing in the way of her having her biggest wish come true: having her family back together again.

 

I tried, I really tried. I begged my xWW to go to MC. She went to two sessions. The entire time she was banging her OM. No wonder why she didn't try. But when I found out about her A, that was it. I was done. There was absolutely no going back.

 

On the flip side, I wonder what my xWW feels when our daughter tells her that same thing. Does she feel shame, regret, and remorse, knowing that she so effectively killed any love I once had for her that I would rather our daughter grow up being split between her parents than to spend even thirty seconds in the same room with her? I honestly don't know.

 

Your kids will feel it. They'll feel it for many years to come. This is what happens.

 

I don't know what path you or your H will ultimately choose. But you need to be prepared for what will come as a result of that choice.

 

I agree with toolforgrowth 100% ^^^^^.

And especially for opting out of step-daughters life. You HAD accepted a parenting role WHILST being M to her mother but after an A, of the self same mother's, then D, your relationship with SD became null and void. Another example of a cheater thinking they've got rights to dictate AFTER their A? Plain dumb. And IMO just another thing WF should've thought about before her A.

I'm sorry your DD lost her dad full time but there you go.

 

Wwgirl, there have obviously been major issues during your M long before your A, but adding the issues to topple all others, being an A just wasn't the way to go.

 

Sometimes we're stuck with a decision to make with only 2 sh** options. Stay M or D. IMO for you, D must be the better of the 2. I agree with the POV that the children are better off going between two "happy households" instead of one dysfunctional one. But in the case of two dysfunctional parents, I guess it's a case of two undisciplined households. And I'm talking about the parents being undisciplined with themselves.

 

At least in your case Wwgirl you may be happier if you D and met a more compatible partner. It is sad for the kids to D, but only on some levels. Kids often don't understand the reasons for D but keeping a very open and honest relationship with them is paramount to them developing into well balanced adults.

 

Has your H even discussed R with you? R of what I think you'd have to ask yourself. R as in just staying. Then you'll stay on the merry-go-round of what to do about getting your needs met. It'll all just go round in circles. Your H has had way long enough to pull his socks up but hasn't. It took him so long that you completely lost interest in him. I'm not sure if he could compete with TWO APs as you had. IDK. Seems unlikely.

 

Good luck

Lion Heart.

[harrybrown]

So you have two children.

 

I am glad that you are starting to think about them.

 

One is a daughter, maybe both of them are, but if one is a son, how would you feel if his wife treated him the way you treat your H?

 

He has his faults, but so do you and I also have faults.

 

But do you really think your OM's are not out there having more A's and are not just spending time with you?

 

So when you get the urge to send your APs a text, have you ever sent one to your H?

 

Do you have any idea about what you have done to your H? Think about you get a D and remarry the man of your dreams. Then you find out that he had two affairs going on while you were married to him.

 

(at about the same time) Then sometimes after the BS finds out they want to reclaim their spouse. It is part biology.

 

And so you forgive your new H his affairs and find out that he molested your daughter?

 

 

Happened to my friend. His wife had the A and replaced him. Her new wonderful H did have at least one A and molested his step daughter.

 

Hope you start to think about your kids before your selfish interests.

 

Good luck.

Edited April 30, 2015 by harrybrown
edit

[Just a Guy]

Hi WW-Girl. I have been reading some of your subsequent posts and also those of some of the others. I have to say that I have to revise what I had earlier said to you about divorcing your husband as the most logical thing to do. After reading your posts I am coming around to the view that maybe you actually have developed some remorse and are feeling very guilty for having caused immense pain to your husband and are also feeling sorry that you have done so. I guess the aftermath of your affair/s must have shone a light on the immensity of your wrong doing and led you to introspect on many aspects of your life, your marriage, your husband's idiosyncrasies and your own shortcomings. You very rightfully said somewhere that you are well aware that there no Prince Charmings around the corner and ditching your current husband is not likely to land you a picture perfect husband who will fulfill your every need. Infact maybe you are coming around to the belief that you may not be able to improve upon your current husband and that maybe he is the best bet for you in the long haul. Also that maybe you are the best wife for him in the long haul!

 

I guess the point that I am trying to make is that as humans we all have our strengths and weaknesses and no one person can be perfect in every way. We all have to make do with what we have and seek happiness in our lives as long as there is no abusive behaviour on the part of our spouse. I guess one should weigh the pros and cons of ones spouse and if the pros outweigh the cons then we should try and make the best of what we have. Remember that it will not be possible for us to change our spouses at a basic level because he or she has come with inherited characteristics and is also the product of the environment that he or she has been brought up in. However we CAN change our own expectations of what we want in a spouse so as to be able to be at peace with ourselves and those that we are close to. Unfortunately the modern environment of materialistic desires and wants coupled with advertising which promises to grant all our wishes has created a sense of entitlement within us so much so that we feel that we can and must have all that we want. This is a highly unrealistic attitude to have have and is something which will only lead us to heartbreak and great dissatisfaction.

 

Divorce may seem a very viable and desirable option but it should be resorted to after a lot of thought and in a very deliberate way. It should never be the result of a knee jerk reaction. Gues I have rambled on a lot. If you think I have made sense at least in parts then take those parts and mull them over. It may help you to take a viable decision as to what you want to do with your life! Cheers.

[ww_girl]

Thanks bigman1. I love your analogy. I'd like to think maybe there's a high quality desktop computer in there somewhere.

 

You have married, by your admission and boring, lazy, self absorbed, smelly, sexually boring man. I gotta ask why? I also have to ask are you really that much of a prize? I'm not being mean when I ask that. I ask it because you need to make sure that you are not transferring some of your own self-loathing onto him. That is not to say that you are self loathing, but that is an all too familiar pattern. Lazy folks criticize folks for being lazy, etc. Also, birds of a feather flock together.

 

I've been thinking about this. And I've been asking myself the "Why did I marry him?" question. When we met I was almost 30 and didn’t think I’d meet anyone more compatible. I was attracted to him on many levels. You may be right about me transferring some of my own self-loathing onto him. We’re a lot alike. I think I’m a bit lazy myself, and have always battled it. It makes it more difficult when you’re trying to battle inertia for two lazy people. I struggle with my weight too. We’re both introverts and avoid conflict. Which makes it easy to avoid conflict. I guess… it would be nice to be with someone who isn’t so much like me, who motivates and challenges me so that I’m not always the one doing the motivating and challenging. I actually said to him a couple of months ago… “We’re too lazy. We don’t have enough self-discipline. How can we discipline our kids and teach them self-discipline if we don’t have any ourselves?”

 

Lastly, on the sex side. Come on. You are a Dom and your BH has a foot fetish and some bondage fantasies. You want a good orgasm but have cheated with folks who did not give you any orgasms? Seriously, there is something wrong. One of your tangled cords needs a sex therapist. He needs a bath and maybe a change in diet to cut the odor.

 

I’m not a Dom. I played a little with an AP at being a sub and liked it. H and I talked a bit about sex last night. We both masturbate a fair amount and are pretty open about it. I know that he looks at his phone, at images of women tied up and gagged, when he masturbates. Last night I asked him if he watches or looks at any other types of porn, or thinks about sex acts, when he masturbates. He said that sometimes he thinks about sex with me, but other than that, no. And I think that is the primary hangup for me… I want to have sex with someone who WANTS TO HAVE SEX. Vaginal, oral, anal, handjobs, whatever. He’s not interested in that. Doesn’t daydream about it, doesn’t think about it. And I just don’t get it. I’m trying to believe that if I’m open to redefining what I think of as SEX, then maybe we can work with it? I think when I went ahead with the A, I had decided that even if he did start having sex with me, I would always know that he wasn’t doing it because he wanted to, and that I somehow needed that. My IC has been saying that I shouldn’t think about what his motivations are, that if I’m getting what I want that should be good enough. And we tried some of her suggestions (H knew I was in IC and I told him her suggestions) – i.e. using toys, etc. But it was awkward, as sex with H always is, and as usual I felt like he wasn’t into it. Of course I probably wasn’t 100% invested either since I was in an A.

 

This thing is so fixable and so broke at the same time. Good luck.

 

I know, right? Thank you.

[ww_girl]

We went to our first MC on Wednesday night. It’s funny, the counselor commented that she found it surprising how respectful and gentle and supportive we are of each other. Apparently that’s not how most of her MC clients are, especially at this stage after an A. Despite how I sound here, I do respect my husband. Not 100%, but he’s a person that I love, whether I’m in love with him or not. Everyone deserves respect. I’ve never understood people who can snark and be rude and disrespectful to their SO’s, especially in front of other people. I always vowed I’d never do that. And sadly, over the last year or two, I’ve found H and I doing that a little bit. I hate it. But maybe that’s the conflict-avoidance.

 

H is still pretty touchy-feely. I’ve admitted that I’m not comfortable with it. The MC said I sound like I feel like I don’t deserve it, and she’s probably right. I just don’t understand how he can want to?

 

H is still checking my phone and a little nervous, as of course I would expect him to be. But I think he’s decided he doesn’t want to know anything more at this point. He’s off to Vegas this weekend for the Pacquiao/Mayweather fight. He didn’t put any restrictions on me or ask for any check-in’s, reassurances, etc. I feel like he trusts me, which also seems crazy. I told him to his face that I wouldn’t speak to the OM or do anything more, and I won’t. I guess he knows that. It’s somehow different that avoiding the truth.

 

H still says he’s 80/20 in favor of R. I’m not that confident. I was walking around a neighborhood near the soccer fields while my daughter was practicing, looking at houses, considering being alone/single parenting. It seems sad but possible. There are just so many things to consider. I think I need to make a decision soon though and go with it 100%. If it’s R I’ll put a timeline on it, maybe evaluate at the end of the summer.

 

Right now. I’m trying to think of all the things that I need to work on that led me to this point. Things that I have control over. I can’t fix H. He has to do that.

[bigman1]

One more thing (my ode to Columbo for those old enough to remember),

 

Don't put ANY stock to him not masturbating to the thought of you. Honestly, I would find it very weird to jerk off to my wife when I could just have sex with her. Now, have I had some twisted fantasy about her and done it to that fantasy, sure. Have I had that twisted thought while having sex with her, sure. But ordinarily, if I'm gonna do the deed alone, then its pure fantasy and it most likely will not involve my wife. I tried getting her to go along with at least pretending with me while having sex and it was a no go. She wouldn't or couldn't play along. It bothered me, so I do what I described above.

 

Next, you can't compete with porn. No woman can. Not even porn women. Don't even go there. As to having sex with you, that ebbs and flows in all relationships. I know guys who "worship" their wives and "she's the hottest thing" or all they desire. I cannot remotely begin to understand that AT ALL. In my mind, they are either lying or obsessive/possessive/stalker types. No offense to anyone who fits that model, but puhlease.

 

You guys need to work on the sex part. Get out of your head. There are books and programs to help. Also, maybe expand the whole concept of sex. Do some BDSM with him. I don't get that stuff, but if you guys are both into it at some level, then do it. Again, that is gonna require a sex therapist to help you get out of your head and into each other or at least into the moment while with each other. Two married people masturbating openly but not with each other or doing each other IS A PROBLEM.

 

I rarely ever root for a betrayed spouse to save their marriage. I feel that once you cheat, you don't deserve your marriage and that you spouse deserves to look for your replacement. Still, in your case, it sounds to me like two broken messed up people found each other and then continued living their own messed up lives together rather than making each other better and being a team; just like you guys masturbate openly but don't involve the other.

 

Fix it or end it, but you still gotta fix yourself either way.

[nightmare01]

WW_girl

 

This weekend with your husband away is an excellent opportunity to SHOW him you have your own set of (new) boundaries that will work to keep him safe.

 

Just because he didn't ask doesn't mean he isn't triggering and nervous. So call him, in the morning - before you go to bed. Tell him about your day. Take pictures (selfies) showing where you are and who you are with. Do ALL THIS on your own without even mentioning that you are doing that to make him feel better or safe or whatever you might want to call it. Don't make your H into your jailer - my best is that most of us do not want to be in that role.

 

Now about the boring sex thing.

 

I've not had a huge number of partners, and instead had a strong of long term girl friends. The GF I had before I met my wife was... well... wildly kinky, adventurous, whatever you want to call it. My wife on the other hand is vanilla all the way. Missionary and pretty much nothing else. No oral, no variety. But I loved her and the sex being boring really didn't matter.

 

Funny thing aside. After Dday I met OM's BW for lunch. She mentioned that OM said my WW was boring in bed - and I emphatically confirmed that, which seemed to make her feel better.

 

For me at least, sex is much more about the person I'm with and how they make me feel. Sexual satisfaction for me is more about what goes on between my ears than what's happening physically. That's just me though.

[turnera]

There's a book you may like for the sex department. It's really just a book of invitations - 26 for you to give him and 26 for him to give you. It gives you great opportunities to enjoy each other sexually.

52 Invitations to Grrreat Sex: It All Begins with a Lick by Laura Corn | 9780974259918 | Paperback | Barnes & Noble

[Just a Guy]

Hi WW-Girl, The Mayweather- Paquiao fight is over and went the way it was expected to. Actually I was rooting for the underdog, Paquiao. Who did your husband support? After I read your post about your husband going away for the week end for the fight and his NOT laying down any conditions or boundaries for you while he was away made me think that here was a man who took a leap of faith. He left the ball squarely in your court, leaving you with the option of breaking NC or going further or just chilling at home with the children and doing household chores. Well he just went up several notches up in my opinion of him.

 

I do hope you are taking time to re-think your position on what you want to do. Your situation is not the same as in other cases as your affair was only about sex whereas in the majority of cases emotional attachment is a big issue which makes it so much more difficult to overcome. I am not trying to minimize what you have done. Your actions have probably hurt your husband very deeply and you yourself have recognized the extent of wrong doing on your part. Your husband seems to be in favour of reconciliation and it must be something very difficult for him to do. At this stage I do not know if you two will be able to reconcile or even if it would be worthwhile for you to do so. That is something only you two are in a position to take a call on. However what ever you decide you must do, you should do so only after deep reflection and a lot of communication with each other. Divorce is very final, something like death. You can only go in one direction and after it is over you will recoil from the bitter after taste in your mouth for quite a while.

 

So take your time and do not be in a hurry. In the meanwhile try and be positive instead of dwelling on each others faults. Have a compromising attitude in your dealings with each other. See the good rather than the shortcomings in each other. Hope both of you get through this difficult time with courage and fortitude and come out with flying colours on the other side. Cheers!

[ww_girl]

Aw, thanks for checking in on me, justaguy. DH was leaning towards Mayweather, but not strongly. We saw Pacquiao fight Moseley a couple of years ago in Vegas, and just weren’t big fans of Pacquaio’s at the time.

 

The weekend was fine. Continued NC.

 

I saw my IC yesterday and it was really good. She made me think about what I NEED. She thinks that while I solely sought out physical affairs, there’s still some other need that I’m trying to fill, some inadequacy that I’m trying to prove wrong. I feel like I’m just too focused on SEX (well, duh, that’s obvious, right?). Which I do want. But... there are more issues than just the sex, like both of us just being checked out of the marriage. Other resentments.

 

But on that note I’ll address the other posts about sex, lol…

 

Bigman1, I wasn't at all worried about H not masturbating to the thought of me... in fact, I thought it odd that he apparently DOES masturbate to the thought of me on occasion, lol. For me it's also usually pure fantasy when I masturbate. And I'm not worried about competing with porn. What worries me is that he doesn't think about sex, per se. Just women tied up and gagged. No sex involved. And he doesn't watch any porn with sex acts involved. Just women being tied up and gagged. And maybe tossed in a trunk.

 

It sort of goes back to the snowboarding thing. He learned to snowboard because he thought he needed to, in order to date me. What was one of the first things we stopped doing not long after we got married? Snowboarding. Because it was too much work for him. Not fun. The sex also stopped after we got married, or slowed way down anyway. Then a year in, when I felt I was in danger of starting an A at work and freaked out and told him things had to change or we were done, he agreed to more sex. For a while. Then I got pregnant and he figured he was off the hook again.

 

I guess I'm worried that he'll put in some effort to have sex with me to keep me in the marriage. But... if he's not really into it, and he's just doing it to make me happy, he'll stop putting the effort in at the first available moment. That's our history, and it's hard to ignore. Or take that leap of faith that this time will be different.

 

Then there's the ED. It may be physical, it may be mental. If it's mental, maybe it's because he's just not really interested in sex. I stopped taking it personally a long time ago. But who wants to have sex with someone who's only doing it out of obligation? And how much fun can it be? How much intimacy can it create?

 

I know we need to give therapy a chance and try to figure it out. I'm just... apprehensive. Anxious. Despairing at times. And at times I think "Who needs sex? Why did I think I needed sex with another human being in my life?!!! I should have just stuck to my toy drawer."

 

We sexy texted a bit this weekend. Then he asked me to put on some microfoam gag tape and take a picture so I did. Which was kind of fun. He said he "enjoyed" it multiple times. So that's good I guess. Of course we both still “took care of things” on our own. Sigh.

 

 

Oh, he went to the doctor today!!! After years of avoiding it, or saying he’d go “after he lost a few pounds,” he actually went. He got a prescription for Viagra. And an appointment with a urologist, lol.

 

 

But like I said before, we have a lot of other things to figure out as well.

[Just a Guy]

Hi ww_girl. It seems that after your last post no one has responded or added anything more. I was wondering whether you and your husband have made any positive progress with your relationship. You had said that your husband had gone to visit the doctor finally. What came of the visit? Have you two had some heart to heart talks about things?

 

The way I see it is that the two of you have to keep moving in a positive direction with regard to your relationship. You cannot afford to be static because then you will only move backwards. I guess the first order of business for the two of you would be to take a call on whether both of you are really invested in your marriage. Once you have the answer to that I guess other things will start to fall in place.

 

You know that you really have to delve deep (both of you) to determine whether you really 'Love' your husband and vice versa. I wouldn't want to get involved in the semantics of " i love him" versus "I'm in love with him". I guess you know that I mean that at some level you truly do love your husband which means that you would be prepared to sacrifice a lot for him. From what you have already written it seems to me that you do indeed, truly love your husband otherwise you would have been divorced by now. Yes resentments and differences of opinion have developed and at times these seem as if they will not be resolved. However in the larger scheme of things it is your love for your husband that has seen you stick with him through all these years. To me your so called "Affairs" seem contrived and not something that was spontaneous as so often happens with others. You did not develop an affection or feelings for your affair partner. It seems that they were more in the nature of a safety valve which allowed you to blow steam without rocking the boat of marriage. I may be completely wrong in my assessment of the situation and that is alright. My basic purpose is to make you dwell on the circumstances of your marriage and do some due diligence thinking about it. It will definitely help to clear the cobwebs in your minds!

 

As usual I have rambled on a lot and need to pipe down. Warm wishes!

[turnera]

What about a sex therapist?