Head is Swimming

[Esraem]

She is playing games bro. She knows just enough to keep you wondering you have to figure out how to let her know that you are moving on. I am having the same issue. Its hard this person was your best friend but now you have to look at her as the enemy. I wouldn't do anything else with that ring other then sell it. Start playing by new rules or its going to get worse. My wife is getting served today or Monday. I know she is telling her new guy that there is no way that I would divorce he she is going to have to do it. She has no idea its coming. New rules.

 

I hope that gives you STBXW a swift kick. I bet you wish it could be like a hidden camera show. I will probably be getting mine tomorrow or Monday. In a way kind of looking forward to seeing them. A little crazy, eh?

[Esraem]

I think I found my Pitbull. He was very passionate or at list put on a good show. He will make sure I have my daughter. Also the magistrate that was assigned is pro dad. He will also make sure to find out is the OM paid for it or if it was actually the MIL. Now to see how far this goes. My family is ready to step up and help me with whatever it will cost.

 

I know I may be stupid but I still want this to stop before it gets to that point.

[kenmore]

I'm so sorry about all this Esraem.

 

This is so new still, it takes a lot of time to deal with these kinds of feelings. I have been dealing for nine months and honestly if I did not have a few things thrown in my face recently, I'd still be wondering how to get her back.

 

Everyone has their own hotspots. Things that trigger problems. For some, any cheating is just too much (both of my wives and I felt this way, and fortunately, I don't believe either did. I know I didn't.) For others, maybe they can overlook some infidelity. I can't speak for you, but I do agree with what many people here said.

 

My wife decided she no longer wants me to be in her life. This whole thing is her doing. She kicked me out (it was her house), she changed the locks, she filed for both separation and divorce and the only two things I can take credit for is deciding I was going to move my things out this week and telling her I was taking some other woman out to the ballet. My wife is furious!

 

But, that's what happens when you treat your spouse like a sack of sh*t. They move on. Your wife has been treating you like a sack of sh*t too, and though it's difficult, you will eventually get angry about it. That doesn't end the pain, but it does help you get in the proper mindset eventually.

 

I certainly don't envy your situation and I wish you peace. Sadly, chances are it will only go downhill from here, and from where you're standing, I imagine you know what that means! Look out for your daughter. Don't worry too much about paternity, what matters is your relationship. My step daughter is clearly not mine since I met my wife when she was ten, but I spent more time raising her than any other man, and she considers me well, not her father because he's still in the picture, but certainly a male role model. I consider her another daughter and always will. I feel you should do the same, and not knowing is just fine if it does not bother you.

 

Best of luck getting to the next hurdle, but you will because you have no choice. Take care!

 

Ken

[beach]

Why did you take her ring to be fixed? Why do anything she requests?

 

Start doing things for yourself... That make your life nice.

[kenmore]

She is playing games bro. She knows just enough to keep you wondering you have to figure out how to let her know that you are moving on. I am having the same issue. Its hard this person was your best friend but now you have to look at her as the enemy.

 

Sorry to hear your tale too Mr. Goodguy.

 

Yes, what you said rings so true! While I can't equate it to what you guys are going through, my wife said things all along which looking back now were completely designed to keep me doing her bidding. Just Christmas eve she said she wasn't sure she wanted a divorce. We had a discussion about it where she said well, if I decide I don't want the divorce, I'll just go to the courthouse and stop it. I said not after I file my response, then you can't stop it alone anymore. She said well, then we'll both go (and waved her hand.) When I brought that up around our anniversary (end of Feb), she couldn't remember saying that??!! How does one forget a whole conversation like that? They don't! It was a strong sign it was all BS.

 

She strung me along like a puppet the whole time and looking back, it was easy for her. I made it easy. That's over now.

 

After I told her about my date to the ballet with another woman, she lost it! She has been so nasty and sh*tty to me ever since, it's unbelievable. Finally I have all of my things out of her house and she finally has no upper hand anymore! But the lying did string me along so much, gave me hope and to be honest was very hurtful. It suited her situation at the time, at the expense of me being able to move on. Very rude!

 

Glad you seem to have a good perspective. I say "seem" because I had a good perspective here too, seemingly, even though I was completely broken up inside. I know how it works, we convince others as well as ourselves how well we're moving on, but it takes much more time to really convince ourselves. It takes observing some real evil in them to start the process of stopping the love. Then it takes time.

 

Best of luck to you too! Take care.

 

Ken

[Esraem]

Why did you take her ring to be fixed? Why do anything she requests?

 

Start doing things for yourself... That make your life nice.

 

I guess because I have not made it to the point in which I have thrown in the towel. I guess I am a bit weak in that point but as I said earlier I am still in love :confused:

[beach]

In love with someone that treats you so terribly? Dude, she's cheated and cheated...what do you love about that?

 

 

I would hope you would love yourself enough to say no more- that you deserve better than what she keeps doing to you.

 

She can't do it if you stop participating. I hope you can honor yourself enough to get her out of your life.

 

You're handing her all of your power... Take your power back man.

[Esraem]

I found out the initial court date is May the 4th. Kind of ironic the OM was met on a Star Wars MMO. May the 4th Be with you

 

She messaged a friend that I have been acting very weird and nice the last couple of days. I guess she is noticing that I quit arguing and am taking the 180 style. She even wants to take her engagement ring in to have it inspected and asked if I wanted to have my ring reordered in a smaller size since it is a tungsten band.

 

I will see this through, but in the end it will at least be me and my daughter.

[Yasuandio]

The sudden irrational concerns about the wedding rings is an attempt to confuse and gaslight you. She must really take you for an idiot. Sometimes "Gaslighters" go too far in their attempt to stuff an insane story down your throat (and, simultaneously, show their cards). If you play it right, in the end, the gaslighter will turn out to be the fool. Thank goodness you're on to her.

 

Here is exactly how Gaslighting works, in reverse:

 

Play along, it boosts the ego and confidence of the gaslighter - they are so busy trying to pull the wool over your eyes (and getting off on it), they forget what is happening in the background. This is how you trap them (while they are busy gaslighting, you are getting real busy yourself with your attorney, estate, child custody, and collection of evidence).

 

Oh, dear. She might inquire: I wonder why the jeweler is taking so long to repair the rings? (Right, just drop them in the toilet tank for awhile, they'll be safe there). Yes, and I know you are very concerned about the delay on the repairs, meh. Well, you'll have to go check on that situation next week, and then the next week, and then the week.

 

When you finally get confronted, just play "Make Believe." For example, come up with a story, that preferably doesn't make any sense: The jeweler had to special order a certain type of tungston to fix your guard. The subject will inevitably rear it's ugly head again. Simply assert another "Make Believe" story.

 

What happens when "Make-Believe" stories stop working? That's easy-peasy -- just DENY everything. DENY, DENY, DENY. How are you supposed to understand the jewelry repair process, for God's sake? YOU ARE NOT A RING REPAIR EXPERT!

 

Next, apply the BLAMING technique: I think the jeweler is ripping you off, and it is your wife's fault for asking to get the rings repaired to start with. Then stomp off, and pull an "Instant 180 Mood Change" - I'd go with either "Sullen," or "Pisst," - but either way, end the conversation (cause you know those rings are in the toilet tank, and you are running out of answers).

 

Comprehending the "Reverse-Gaslighting" technique can, at the very least, give you insight into the game being played. But too, should you apply it, could provide you a sense of control, and buy some time while you take care of important legal matters (because it appears you are on her team when you certainly are not). Let her be off-center for once, IF, you don't have a problem with that. Two can play at this puppetry game, Sir.

 

Ta-Da! Yas

[Esraem]

Well today we are doing something we both enjoy and what we were doing when we met. Makes it real hard. I know that I should listen to you guys but I am still blinded by my heart, even if it is in 100 different pieces. Tomorrow I will probably be served and the first hearing is scheduled. I am trying to make it through each day as best as possible.

[Esraem]

Hey guys just an update. I got the paperwork and will be hiring my attorney tomorrow. I guess it is a go. Lets see where my life takes me.

[apeman101]

For once be selfish and put your needs ahead of everything else. She is no longer your responsibility when she walked out of your marriage. Marriage is a contract and when one party breaks the contract, there is no responsibility on the other party to honor the contract.

[Miss Sisyphus]

Yas, I was thinking she must have a personality problem. Maybe narcissism or psychopathy? (Aren't they known for gaslighting?) How is it that so many men are willing to take care of her? It sounds like she is manipulating them.

 

Esraem, have you given any thought to the possibility that she's a master manipulator, probably due to a personality disorder? I would seriously do some research into her behavior. It could clarify your relationship.

Edited April 25, 2015 by Miss Sisyphus

[Esraem]

She has been diagnosed with Clinical Depression but he mom is bipolar and I think she maybe as well. She quit taking her medication to try and get a job about two or so years ago. Our major issues happened not much after that. I wish she got back on them but it is not my call

[Yasuandio]

Yas, I was thinking she must have a personality problem. Maybe narcissism or psychopathy? (Aren't they known for gaslighting?) How is it that so many men are willing to take care of her? It sounds like she is manipulating them.

 

Esraem, have you given any thought to the possibility that she's a master manipulator, probably due to a personality disorder? I would seriously do some research into her behavior. It could clarify your relationship.

 

Ms. Sisyphus,

Certainly, "gaslighting is in the toolbox of the Narcissist. But too, what distinguishes a true Narcissists is a LACK OF EMPATHY, or low empathy. I noticed the couple did things together, gaming, etc. The term "best friends" comes up, enjoyment together is referred to. It is not an enjoyable experience to be around a true Narcissist - post honeymoon period. "Best friends, enjoyment, doing things together," are relationship terms I have not come across when reading about Narcissist survivors - quite the opposite (isolation, berating, withdrawal of affection). Furthermore, she was getting caught very easy, then making dumb excuses. Almost like she wants to get caught. Narcissists are swifter than this, and have an MO to set up as many "supplies" as possible. To get caught for a Narcissist, us a huge injury to their omnipresent self - they are so very much evolved above us mere atomatons.

 

She sounds more like Walkaway Wife to me, that is in a hazy "Affair Fog." I bet she will come crawling back also, when the guy dumps her (that is, if Esream should stops wanting her, kick her fanny out, and goes dark on her, for real). That said, anyone is capable of gaslighting. I would venture to guess that gaslighting is most common among cheaters. That is just my opinion.

 

While his wife did pull a gaslighting stunt, I think she did it to simply take the spotlight off her affair conundrum (as a means to change the subject), not necessarily to slowly drive OP insane, as a Narcissist would do, heartlessly.

 

I came up with an overkill reverse gaslighting strategy to demonstrate to her REAL FAST that crap ain't gonna fly. And too, a method for Esream "do something different," such as mirroring. [And, take control of these flying monkey wrenches].

 

Personally, I like to confuse the heck out of dishonest people. I am so predictable, kind, and completely honest when I give my trust and soul to another (be it a friend, mate, or an employee for that matter). If I catch a liar, it is my belief they deserve to be in a precarious position - never knowing what might come of their betrayal [they could mirrored, be ostricized, get silent treatment, get exposed, fired, reported, sued, ignored, recorded, documented, or maybe I just forget about it -- "they" just never know]. That is my preferred method dealing with deceitful liars and cheats.

 

Here is an example. I don't care if the plumber forgot to get a Permit for the job here at my house, he got fired (he is NOT a Certified Plumber - and he lied to my face, and it looks like I'm burying bodies in my basement). He was completely stunned that I would actually fire him on the spot - he believed he had me by the b-lls, since I forked over a huge down payment for the bath and kitchen construction (and he knows I'm ill). Well, the disaster he left behind is being appraised by an expert for the cost of correction, and that "cred card charge" can easily be reversed.

 

There is a something coming his way, he does not know what that will be. So, in my attempt to "mediate" with him in writing, he lied, lied again, then covered those lies with more lies. And it is all documented, thank you, lying, idiot plumber. Even when you try to be reasonable, and negotiate with a liar or cheat, they continue to lie. Once a lie is told, more lies are needed to cover the up the original lies. When you put some space in between the question phases, and ask additional questions (or even the same questions), the resulting answers typically don't comport. That is what I now have in writing with this plumber. Out and out lies during my attempts to mediate. Beautiful.

 

True, sick psychopathic Narcissists are estimated to be 1% of the population. Narcissism is a long continuum - well adjusted people have to have an element of narcissism is their personality (that is known self esteem, dignity, a sense of pride, honor, conviction, principles to live by, belief system). Common cheats, liars, gaslighters are in all walks of life, everywhere you turn (they too, have their own set of principles and belief system, however flawed, self-serving, self-centered, and/or self-loathing). As per my example, it is not just our SO's that can mistreat us -- I have so come to know this fact as a woman alone working with contractors on my homes. I believe that this is a healthy way to look at this situation with couples -- "broadening the scope" when applying these so-called disorders and dysfunctionalisms - as actually, this is the way of life for some folks, a way to get ahead -- the WRONG WAY.

 

This is not a simple matter. There is also is the "nurture factor" or lack thereof, that has shown to have a direct influence on adult's disordered personalities and/or dysfunctions. We all have some. Then too, different societies and cultures promote particular lifestyles that can be classified as dysfunctional by alternate cultures (see newest research on how the "tribe mentality drives the human behavior - it is very interesting, and particularly applicable to my marriage break-down). So many variables at work.

 

A disordered and dysfunctional world is the "New Normal." Every time you blink, there is a new "disorder." I wonder, sometimes, as I have observed the fall-out and patterns on LS, if the "disorders" we hear so much about are just a fancy name for "I don't give an eff, I want what I want." Disorder, or no disorder, we have to just cope, as we only have control of ourselves, and how we RESPOND to transgressors.

 

It has been my experience if you force feed yourself to remain in the bad situation, you could end up with an inverted version of the less than reasonably balanced partner (there are many books on subjects such as co-dependency - a symptom of which can develop as a result of being attached to a disordered people, then you cannot let go). I certainly relate to this. As you see, I have done a lot of thinking about these topics. Hope my conclusions were enlightening, and too, that I distinguished Narcissism from the "same old, same old" Textbook Cheater Syndrome, Ms. Susyphus. And I also hope some of these interpretations of the literature are helpful to you also, Esraem. As always, it is just my take, only. Yas

[ArtIsMyThing]

Personally, I like to confuse the heck out of dishonest people. I am so predictable, kind, and completely honest when I give my trust and soul to another (be it a friend, mate, or an employee for that matter). If I catch a liar, it is my belief they deserve to be in a precarious position - never knowing what might come of their betrayal [they could mirrored, be ostricized, get silent treatment, get exposed, fired, reported, sued, ignored, recorded, documented, or maybe I just forget about it -- "they" just never know]. That is my preferred method dealing with deceitful liars and cheats.

 

I like that lol

 

True narcissism is only about 1% - my SD is a 4 point narcissist - oh never cross her.

 

But people have narcissistic traits - i have suspected my ex of being a narcissist - totally perfect whilst they can gain from you - i am not kidding in how perfect he was - and when he couldn't gain - it is total cut off and your emotions are yours too deal with, as is your health or any other thing.

 

I have suspected it but there's no way of knowing for sure.

[ArtIsMyThing]

Esraem yours just sounds like a serial cheater - she might even be a really nice person when she's not manipulating her way out of things - but either way it sounds like its time for you to stop playing the game with her and get on with making your life right for you and your daughter

[Esraem]

Last night I went out with friends. I said I would be going out with a friend, but we ended up meeting his wife and a single friend. Funny thing at dinner when they handed out the checks they thought we were married . My wife knows her and when I got up this morning she was a little pissed off. There were pictures on facebook and I didnt wear my ring. She was pissed that it wasnt just my friend and I and it looked to be a double date and then she hasnt told her family yet. After saying it she tried backtracking to say it was because I didnt tell our daughter bye (happened to be at a friends).

 

It was a great night and I am interested in the single friend. Who knows. It was fun to see her squirm.

[turnera]

What should I do?

Expose her cheating to everyone who matters to her. It's the single best way to stop the cheating. Once the cheating is done, you can discuss things more logically, without her 'fantasy' of these other men replacing you.

[Esraem]

I have made sure that everyone that I have talked to knows the whole truth from both sides. What she is doing or done and what I have done. I want them to make the decision on their own and not hide the truth.

 

I know on Saturday at our nieces bday party she told her dad. Probably not everything, so when I hugged him goodbye, he understood, and I made sure to whisper in his ear, to bad there is another guy involved.

 

I also broke it to her sister, who was upset, and she told me I was always going to be her brother.

[Esraem]

Last couple of days have been interesting. Saturday like I said she was upset. After I posted she decided to argue with me again about it. She stated that I embarrassed her, that her grandma tried to corner her to ask about it, and that it was fine for me to go out, but if I want to put it on facebook, to defriend her family. I didnt say a thing and she was even more incensed and was like, "no response". I answered - " Nope". They are still my family, having been with them for 11 years. They are also still my daughters family, so we will always be linked.

 

This just showed me how much more unstable her depression is getting with the stress of her decision. She has been swinging much more wildly from up to down. With her so down I needed to leave and went over to a friends that night.

 

Sunday was different, she was in a great mood in the morning. She talked, we joked about things, and then she went with friends. She came home still in a good mood. She also looked beautiful . I helped my daughter with homework and the two of us snuggled before her bedtime. My wife looked over and I could tell the hurt in her eyes. She then told me she needed to leave for a bit to think. I know she left to make a call to the OM and I think he focused her back on target.

 

Yesterday, she went to see a supportive friend (one who hasnt heard my side) and I left to speak with my minister and then to my counselor. I found out that her friend and my MIL friended the AP on facebook. I have deleted her friends and just laughed about my MIL. She has always hated me. She is most likely ecstatic that this is happening. My wife also brought up a family gathering in WV. All I said was, that is nice.

 

I am coming more and more to grips with it. My mind though is getting there much faster than my heart. I felt her close to me last night in bed. It was the closest she has moved in the past few weeks. She even subconsciously rubbed her foot on mine. I wish I could mind read to know what if anything she is struggling with.

 

1 week until our first hearing.

[turnera]

Keep exposing.

[Mr. Goodguy]

She is playing games. Hold strong. If she comes to you totally broken then you ponder to go in a different direction anything short of that is B.S.

She has not been shaken to her core so nothing has really changed. Nothing other then her guilt and not wanting to look bad.

[seibert253]

Retain a lawyer and D her.

She's never going to change.

You deserve better.

[Esraem]

Well I got a call from my attorney. Looks like our preliminary hearing on Monday is now postponed. As much as I dont want it. I believe it would begin to open up what is going to happen. Still in limbo I guess.