She played behind my back. Is it my fault?

[strongAce]

I'm not sure I believe that her therapist said this .

 

Why does someone need a therapist to answer a question honestly?

 

 

I was there when the therapist said it. The therapist told the both of us. It came about, because the therapist asked me what it is that i want to accomplish, I responded that first I need to know everything.

[oldshirt]

I'm not sure I believe that her therapist said this .

 

Why does someone need a therapist to answer a question honestly?

 

Is this her therapist or a marriage therapist working for you both?

 

 

that differentiation matters here. If the therapist is her therapist then he/she is going to work for her and her best interests. That means it will be her best interests if you don't find out at this time what all she has done.

 

 

They are likely working through all the layers and will come up with a way to address it that may or may not include you ever finding out exactly what went down.

 

 

If the therapist is a marital therapist working for both of you, then his/her actual client is the marriage as a whole and not either one of you as an individual.

 

 

That means the therapist believes that knowledge will threaten the marriage at this point and again they are stalling for time to unravel the layers and come up with a plan to deal with it that may or may not involve full disclosure to you.

[strongAce]

Marriage therapist, working with the both of us

[oldshirt]

 

I searched our phone records, retrieved some deleted messages and searched her social media. They would text a tremendous amount and often. Some deleted messages that I found, had them making plans to hang out and have 'fun', one even had him asking what her favorite position is and she responded "you will find out".

 

Not much else.

 

You have to at minimum take this at face value that they intended to have sex even if they didn't quite get there.

 

 

And you also have to give serious consideration that if she sent this message on the 12th, that they actually did get it on on the 13th and just haven't messaged each other about it.

 

 

Where you go from here depends a lot on what you can live with and what your end goals are. If you absolutely must know the full truth on what did or did not happen and whether you choose to dedicate yourself to reconciliation vs divorce depending on what actually happened, then you are going to need to go into full investigation mode.

 

 

If you are willing to let bygones be bygones here and are willing to hit the "reset" button and work to reconcile regardless of how deep their affair went, then you are better off letting this one go. Further digging will only bring bad news.

[oldshirt]

Marriage therapist, working with the both of us

 

That means "the marriage" is the client and the therapist is an advocate for the marriage as a whole and not necessarily either one of you as an individual.

 

 

That means the therapists believes that full disclosure at this time will irrepairably damage the marriage and cause more harm than benefit.

 

 

That doesn't necessarily mean that they will always keep you completely in the dark forever. They may be working to uncover the full story and understand the true depths of what it all means and then come up with a plan to address it which may ultimately mean full disclosure, partial discloser or minimal disclosure.

[oldshirt]

That is why I fully agree with you that in a way, its worse than flat out cheating.

 

 

 

As a swinger, I believe it is worse.

 

 

While cheating is never OK, it is somewhat more understandable if someone has only been with one person for years and years and years and their partner is deadset against any form of fun and frivolity with any third parties.

 

 

However if their partner is perfectly agreeable to some form of nonmonogamy and willing to negotiate them getting some fun on the side within certain parameters, then if they cheat under those circumstances it means that it's not the outside poontang that they have the problem with - it's the "parameters" that they have the issue with.

 

 

That to me spells the true heart of a cheater. If she can't follow the rules of the marriage even if you are perfectly willing to let her be with other people, then how is she ever going to be trustworthy.

 

 

Again, I don't believe that this is your "fault" per se. I think you gave her some slack and leeway and she just used that extra rope to hang herself with it.

[oldshirt]

..... and on a related note, my years in the swinging lifestyle has lead me to believe that swinging causes nothing, it amplifies and excentuates what is already there.

 

 

For some couples with good trust, good communication and good passion between them, it will intensify that and make things burn hotter.

 

 

For couples where there are cracks and holes in the foundation, it will tear those cracks open.

 

 

For couples where one or the other is already prone to selfish and adulterous behavior, swinging will be like taking a kid with a sweet tooth who's already dying to do some shoplifting to the candy store.

 

 

Swinging may expose someone prone to cheating either sooner than they normally would have if they had been under lock and key, or it may even delay it for a time. But it will not eliminate it nor cause it to happen.

 

 

Again, your wife took the slack you gave her and hung herself with it.

[strongAce]

As a swinger, I believe it is worse.

 

 

While cheating is never OK, it is somewhat more understandable if someone has only been with one person for years and years and years and their partner is deadset against any form of fun and frivolity with any third parties.

 

 

However if their partner is perfectly agreeable to some form of nonmonogamy and willing to negotiate them getting some fun on the side within certain parameters, then if they cheat under those circumstances it means that it's not the outside poontang that they have the problem with - it's the "parameters" that they have the issue with.

 

 

That to me spells the true heart of a cheater. If she can't follow the rules of the marriage even if you are perfectly willing to let her be with other people, then how is she ever going to be trustworthy.

 

 

Again, I don't believe that this is your "fault" per se. I think you gave her some slack and leeway and she just used that extra rope to hang herself with it.

 

 

I fully agree with the last statement. In this situation though, I am really, really tempted to have my side action, especially since she attributes what hsppened to our talks/fantasies.

 

I say ok, yes I give her that, but that means thst I should not be reprimanded for my actions.

 

I feel as though, that is the only way for me to continue in this marriage.

 

I was cheated on before, and honestly, the thought of me cheating didnt cross my mind, I just broke off the relationship immediately. Here, I view it differently.

[oldshirt]

I fully agree with the last statement. In this situation though, I am really, really tempted to have my side action, especially since she attributes what hsppened to our talks/fantasies.

 

I say ok, yes I give her that, but that means thst I should not be reprimanded for my actions.

 

I feel as though, that is the only way for me to continue in this marriage.

 

I was cheated on before, and honestly, the thought of me cheating didnt cross my mind, I just broke off the relationship immediately. Here, I view it differently.

 

 

 

I don't see this as different.

 

 

This was not a sanctioned "side action" situation. This was not a case of people in a consensual open marriage trying to keep things somewhat fair.

 

 

This was infidelity.

 

 

If you go out and get some side action without her consent, it will be cheating in every sense of the word as what she did and will only add another layer of resentment and chaos to an already complex and troubling situation.

 

 

Now she may say to go ahead and do it in order to relieve her guilt and to say that now you are even so get off her back, but it isn't real. That would just be a manipulation and she would still harbor a ton of resentment and disgust.

[oldshirt]

.... and you also need to keep in mind that a married woman looking for some side piece for fun is the easiest thing in the world for a woman to do.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Men will line up down the street and around the corner to bang a woman that just wants some recreational fun on the side. for a man, it's one of the hardest. most men on the planet would be glad to be some married womans FWB. Virtually no women sign up for that role in reverse unless she is cheating on her husband as well and then you'll have a jealous husband on your hand. There are lots of married guys screwing other chicks but almost all of them have had to fake some kind of "relationship" or make future promises that they don't really want to keep.

[sandylee1]

I fully agree with the last statement. In this situation though, I am really, really tempted to have my side action, especially since she attributes what hsppened to our talks/fantasies.

 

I say ok, yes I give her that, but that means thst I should not be reprimanded for my actions.

 

I feel as though, that is the only way for me to continue in this marriage.

 

I was cheated on before, and honestly, the thought of me cheating didnt cross my mind, I just broke off the relationship immediately. Here, I view it differently.

 

Would she be okay with you getting some side action? If so, then go for it IMO. You can tell her its the only way you could remain in the marriage. I know many will disagree. Sometimes people just need to get even. I think I'd have that view if I was cheated on and wanted to reconcile.

 

If she agrees, it has to end after that. No more other people in your marriage, until the two of you are rock solid.

 

If she doesn't agree, ask why it's okay for her, but not for you.

If she says she never slept with him, then ask her to prove it with a polygraph.

 

She knew what the boundaries were, but she chose to ignore them. This act of cheating is on her.

 

What made her cheat in her previous marriage? Because she may just be someone who can't stop cheating. Always wanting a bit on the side.

[Bohonia]

Having a mature relationship and trusting the other person is one thing. She did not do that and hid this from you. So even though you were open to this experience with you the YOU part was left out while she went and had fun. So I disagree with your friends you and your wife had an agreement and she stated she was not interested and yet did it behind your back.

[sandylee1]

....

 

Virtually no women sign up for that role in reverse unless she is cheating on her husband as well and then you'll have a jealous husband on your hand. There are lots of married guys screwing other chicks but almost all of them have had to fake some kind of "relationship" or make future promises that they don't really want to keep.

 

Based on all the single OWs, I disagree with this. Some MM future fake, lots don't. There's lots more single OWs, than single OMs.

[strongAce]

Would she be okay with you getting some side action? If so, then go for it IMO. You can tell her its the only way you could remain in the marriage. I know many will disagree. Sometimes people just need to get even. I think I'd have that view if I was cheated on and wanted to reconcile.

 

If she agrees, it has to end after that. No more other people in your marriage, until the two of you are rock solid.

 

If she doesn't agree, ask why it's okay for her, but not for you.

If she says she never slept with him, then ask her to prove it with a polygraph.

 

She knew what the boundaries were, but she chose to ignore them. This act of cheating is on her.

 

What made her cheat in her previous marriage? Because she may just be someone who can't stop cheating. Always wanting a bit on the side.

 

 

She will not be able to handle me being with someone else, but at this point, I think she is going to have live with it if she wants this marriage to continue. I will do it primarily because I feel she is still not taking responsibility for her actions. She still says its my fault for having the talks, well if she truly feels that way, I will play too (since we had the talks)

 

Im at the point where the thing that irritates me the most is the denial and lies, and not unless she comes clean and admits fault, I will have the need to get even.

 

I might be wrong, but I truly dont view any other scenarios bringing me peace.

Edited April 17, 2015 by strongAce

[sandylee1]

She will not be able to handle me being with someone else, but at this point, I think she is going to have live with it if she wants this marriage to continue. I will do it primarily because I feel she is still not taking responsibility for her actions. She still says its my fault for having the talks, well if she truly feels that way, I will play too (since we had the talks)

 

Im at the point where the thing that irritates me the most is the denial and lies, and not unless she comes clean and admits fault, I will have the need to get even.

 

I might be wrong, but I truly dont view any other scenarios bringing me peace.

 

Doesn't she understandthe meaning of a threesome? It doesn't mean go off with another man and sext. She's trying to play innocent here and I don't buy it.

 

What's sauce for the goose. .........

 

You had the talks, she got some action and you didn't. She's being selfish and she needs to realise that.

[strongAce]

So we had extensive talks and she is adamant they only kissed. Her reasoning for not doing more is that she basically chickened out.

 

I still feel betrayed.

 

1: She led me to believe that she had no intentions to make fantasies in to reality, and now she blames my openness for what she did. She would scrutinize my every move, (I suspect because of her guilty conscience), which shows that she knew she never had intentions of including me in her little games.

 

And now I feel a bit shamed, because she is not taking responsibility and blaming me to hr friends. She is portraying me as weak, I feel, by saying that I opened the door and couldnt handle it. But she is obviously omitting the fact that she mislead me into thinking that we wouldnt act on anything.

 

Anyways, thanks for the very good advise that I haved received from many of you.

[road]

So we had extensive talks and she is adamant they only kissed. Her reasoning for not doing more is that she basically chickened out.

 

I still feel betrayed.

 

1: She led me to believe that she had no intentions to make fantasies in to reality, and now she blames my openness for what she did. She would scrutinize my every move, (I suspect because of her guilty conscience), which shows that she knew she never had intentions of including me in her little games.

 

And now I feel a bit shamed, because she is not taking responsibility and blaming me to hr friends. She is portraying me as weak, I feel, by saying that I opened the door and couldnt handle it. But she is obviously omitting the fact that she mislead me into thinking that we wouldnt act on anything.

 

Anyways, thanks for the very good advise that I haved received from many of you.

 

 

 

 

So she lied to you and cheated.

 

 

Now what made you believe she is not lying now?

 

 

Standard WW move to claim kissing, giving up a small truth, to get the BH to believe the big lie, they did not go all the way.

 

 

Your own words are showing that she is lying to your friends omitting her part.

 

 

Did you tell WW that you want her to take the polygraph test?

 

 

What was her response?

[strongAce]

So she lied to you and cheated.

 

 

Now what made you believe she is not lying now?

 

 

Standard WW move to claim kissing, giving up a small truth, to get the BH to believe the big lie, they did not go all the way.

 

 

Your own words are showing that she is lying to your friends omitting her part.

 

 

Did you tell WW that you want her to take the polygraph test?

 

 

What was her response?

 

 

She said yes to the polygraph, but she could very well be bluffing. I guess what I meant is that to me it really doesnt matter how far they got. Is it possible that she did chicken out? Sure, but I dont think it was because of me, and also more of a matter of time before she did go fully. But in my mind I think they did go all the way.

 

Now I have to decide what it is that I want to do. Either way it is hard.

[I_Give_Up67]

She said yes to the polygraph, but she could very well be bluffing. I guess what I meant is that to me it really doesnt matter how far they got. Is it possible that she did chicken out? Sure, but I dont think it was because of me, and also more of a matter of time before she did go fully. But in my mind I think they did go all the way.

 

Now I have to decide what it is that I want to do. Either way it is hard.

 

 

 

She cheated. Dump her ass!

[No Limit]

Then do it, get the polygraph. Don't be surprised to get a parking lot confession at the last minute.

[road]

She said yes to the polygraph, but she could very well be bluffing. I guess what I meant is that to me it really doesnt matter how far they got. Is it possible that she did chicken out? Sure, but I dont think it was because of me, and also more of a matter of time before she did go fully. But in my mind I think they did go all the way.

 

Now I have to decide what it is that I want to do. Either way it is hard.

 

 

 

 

If you are staying married it is better to stay based on knowing the truth. Take her up on her offer.

[cgiles]

Now I have to decide what it is that I want to do. Either way it is hard.

 

Sign she is remorseful :

http://rowell.smugmug.com/photos/i-XPW9qP3/0/L/i-XPW9qP3-L.jpg

 

INDICATORS OF REMORSE

* Actions match words.

* Accepts full responsibility for the affair without blaming the BS, a bad marriage, or other outside factors.

* Expresses sorrow for hurting the BS and the M.

* Shows compassion and actively assists the BS with handling triggers.

* Does not become defensive or shut down when BS brings up affair-related emotions, issues, or questions.

* Answers questions honestly and completely.

* Does not avoid the BS or become frustrated that the BS is not “healing fast enough.”

* Contributes at least 60% of the joint effort at rebuilding the marriage.

* Actively works to understand why he or she made the choice to have an affair and shares insights with BS.

* Does not think solely about himself or herself. Considers how actions impact the BS.

 

(not mine found on another forum which found it on another forum too)

Does she show she is remorseful ?

 

If yes, open the door to reconciliation, MC/IC.

 

If not, start to apply the 180list, it will help you to be happy by yourself : http://affaircare.com/the-180/

 

Then put your duck in row, people here will be able to advice you how to do it, check your finance, contact a lawyer, the best way for find oneis to ask to divorcee around you if they know a good one.

 

Then make her served at work.

Edited April 21, 2015 by cgiles

[sandylee1]

She cheated. Dump her ass!

 

She said yes to the polygraph, but she could very well be bluffing. I guess what I meant is that to me it really doesnt matter how far they got. Is it possible that she did chicken out? Sure, but I dont think it was because of me, and also more of a matter of time before she did go fully. But in my mind I think they did go all the way.

 

Now I have to decide what it is that I want to do. Either way it is hard.

 

Arrange the poly and get the truth.

[elaine567]

She will not be able to handle me being with someone else, but at this point, I think she is going to have live with it if she wants this marriage to continue. I will do it primarily because I feel she is still not taking responsibility for her actions. She still says its my fault for having the talks, well if she truly feels that way, I will play too (since we had the talks)

 

You will do it because you just want to, admit it, and if you have the attitude "she is going to have to live with it" then you say good bye to your marriage, pure and simple. She may or may not stick around, but resentment will build.

 

Her friends think you are weak, because YOU introduced the idea of the threesome plus a side piece for you and then moan when she binned the threesome but she then "took the initiative" and found a side piece for herself.

I guess you lost her when you suggested the side piece for yourself, threesomes are inclusive, each knows what happened and can control it, side pieces have little to do with the "marriage" per se they are not "controllable" by the uninvolved partner.

They need a high degree of trust and loyalty, else it all ends up pretty messy.

 

I think you are onto a loser here and probably best that you two split up because your idea of marriage is totally at odds with each other.

YOU want threesomes preferably FFM and she isn't into that, being with a woman disgusts her. You being with a woman as a "side piece" I guess also disgusts and upsets her. She is entitled to that view and just because she disagrees with your fantasy, it does not make her as you have said "selfish".

She ducked out of the MMF because I guess she is not really into threesomes full stop, that was your fantasy and I guess the threesome, your desire for a side piece (because it's only fair )and your past history of banging strippers two at a time ruined the connection she felt she had with you. Enter Mr Keen the co worker and bingo.

She transferred her loyalty elsewhere to some other monogamous pairing because you were suddenly not the man she married.

 

Your desire for bringing other people into an open, swinging marriage is I guess not compatible with what she really wants. This was just fantasy for her but you pushed it, she went along with it, until she realised you were deadly serious and she just had to duck out.

A woman can fantasise obsessively about having sex with a gorilla, but the minute her husband shows up with the gorilla, she is out of there...

 

Had she truly wanted to turn fantasy into reality, you would have had your threesome, had your side piece and the two of you would be sitting down just now exploring other options.

[strongAce]

P

You will do it because you just want to, admit it, and if you have the attitude "she is going to have to live with it" then you say good bye to your marriage, pure and simple. She may or may not stick around, but resentment will build.

 

Her friends think you are weak, because YOU introduced the idea of the threesome plus a side piece for you and then moan when she binned the threesome but she then "took the initiative" and found a side piece for herself.

I guess you lost her when you suggested the side piece for yourself, threesomes are inclusive, each knows what happened and can control it, side pieces have little to do with the "marriage" per se they are not "controllable" by the uninvolved partner.

They need a high degree of trust and loyalty, else it all ends up pretty messy.

 

I think you are onto a loser here and probably best that you two split up because your idea of marriage is totally at odds with each other.

YOU want threesomes preferably FFM and she isn't into that, being with a woman disgusts her. You being with a woman as a "side piece" I guess also disgusts and upsets her. She is entitled to that view and just because she disagrees with your fantasy, it does not make her as you have said "selfish".

She ducked out of the MMF because I guess she is not really into threesomes full stop, that was your fantasy and I guess the threesome, your desire for a side piece (because it's only fair )and your past history of banging strippers two at a time ruined the connection she felt she had with you. Enter Mr Keen the co worker and bingo.

She transferred her loyalty elsewhere to some other monogamous pairing because you were suddenly not the man she married.

 

Your desire for bringing other people into an open, swinging marriage is I guess not compatible with what she really wants. This was just fantasy for her but you pushed it, she went along with it, until she realised you were deadly serious and she just had to duck out.

A woman can fantasise obsessively about having sex with a gorilla, but the minute her husband shows up with the gorilla, she is out of there...

 

Had she truly wanted to turn fantasy into reality, you would have had your threesome, had your side piece and the two of you would be sitting down just now exploring other options.

 

 

You are absolutely mistaken, but I don't blame you; there is only so much one can explain through a forum. The more I think about this, the more I realise she flat out cheated. I never, not once pressured her or came across as pushy with the fantasies. In fact, about the open relationship, I myself told her that I most likely would struggle to get my action, due to my innability to lie. Sure, I do lie, but I cannot live a lie, and Im of the opinion (like oldshirt said above) that a lot of women wouldnt want to get involved with a married man.

 

Another thing is that the occasion that I reached out to an old female friend, my wife was furious. This was after it was established that we werent going to proceed to make our talks a reality. By this point I already knew about her having him as an instagram buddy. I told her to stop flirting with him through instagram and I would end any female contact. She lied to me and said she would, but come to find out, the relationship was a lot more than instagram

I would constantly ask her if she had ran into him at work (huge place) she would say no and that the instagram friendship was eliminated. Nothing but lies

 

And lastly, I recently ran into a woman that I have always felt an attraction to and I am inclined to say the feeling is mutual. We were chatting it up real good, until the thought of me asking her out crept in to me. After that I felt disturbed and got really nervous (she probably views me as a wimp now). Im sure those feelings derived from me knowing how it feels to be cheated on, I do not wish that upon anyone when Im at full sense, but when I think of all the lies and everything she put me through, it seems like a really good to pay her back.

 

I'm an honest, hard working person, as cliche as that might sound; being sexually adventurous does not make me otherwise.