She played behind my back. Is it my fault?

[Grapesofwrath]

When couples start to wade into the waters of swinging, threesomes, and other explorations, trust has to be rock solid. If there are no clear boundaries set, and no rules in place, then it quickly becomes a free-for-all. I think the issue here was a lack of clear communication, boundaries, and trust.

 

Impossible for us to know if your wife was turned on by your past, or whether she was setting you up, or what have you. What's clear is that you were not communicating effectively on this topic and didn't have solid boundaries in place. If you did, and she violated those boundaries, then that's a trust issue and I would feel the same way about it as I would about the violation of trust on any other issue.

[strongAce]

When couples start to wade into the waters of swinging, threesomes, and other explorations, trust has to be rock solid. If there are no clear boundaries set, and no rules in place, then it quickly becomes a free-for-all. I think the issue here was a lack of clear communication, boundaries, and trust.

 

Impossible for us to know if your wife was turned on by your past, or whether she was setting you up, or what have you. What's clear is that you were not communicating effectively on this topic and didn't have solid boundaries in place. If you did, and she violated those boundaries, then that's a trust issue and I would feel the same way about it as I would about the violation of trust on any other issue.

 

 

You are right and my biggest pain is kowing that there is no way this came about because of miscommunication or a misunderstanding. I laid down the boundaries and she was adamant she was to follow them.

[GoBlue]

Hey strongAce - this is not an easy issue to get through. It seems clear that she definitely wasn't 100% honest with you but it should also be equally clear that the entire situation leaves all kinds of room for possible problems. I highly recommend that you consider the possibility of marital counseling. These feelings of distrust will not go away simply because she stops talking to this guy. Dealing with the real issues of your relationship with the help of a professional can be very beneficial. In my heart and mind I view marriage as an exclusive sexual bond that exists between husband and wife. Nothing good comes out of opening that bond to other individuals. It is chock full of potential for destruction. I confess that I do believe in the spiritual nature of marriage and that it is a "sacred institution" but I also believe that studies and data indicate that there are serious issues produced when couples try to live in an open marriage. I hope things turn around for you both and that you move from this incident stronger and healthier in your love than ever before. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

[strongAce]

Hey strongAce - this is not an easy issue to get through. It seems clear that she definitely wasn't 100% honest with you but it should also be equally clear that the entire situation leaves all kinds of room for possible problems. I highly recommend that you consider the possibility of marital counseling. These feelings of distrust will not go away simply because she stops talking to this guy. Dealing with the real issues of your relationship with the help of a professional can be very beneficial. In my heart and mind I view marriage as an exclusive sexual bond that exists between husband and wife. Nothing good comes out of opening that bond to other individuals. It is chock full of potential for destruction. I confess that I do believe in the spiritual nature of marriage and that it is a "sacred institution" but I also believe that studies and data indicate that there are serious issues produced when couples try to live in an open marriage. I hope things turn around for you both and that you move from this incident stronger and healthier in your love than ever before. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

 

 

Thank you very much for your kind words.

[road]

Very good question and a question that I ask myself as well. Now everything is shrouded in mystery, that is the worse part. It's not.so much jealousy, in fact, very little of it if at all, is jealousy. Now a bunch of questions arise. A whole bunch of uncertainty.

 

A therapist advised her not to open up and offer dedetails, because it could make things worse. But I have asked many times...

 

 

 

 

Your WW lied to you.

 

 

Your WW had an affair with this OM.

 

 

Your WW had sex with this OM many times.

 

 

Her therapist knows the truth and is only interested in protecting her client/WW.

 

 

Schedule a polygraph test for WW then tell her when the appointment is. Tell her she has broken your trust and this test is the first step to repair the trust WW broke.

 

 

What happens is that many WW's on the ride to the test trickle some more truth. Claiming you now know all so lets skip the test. This is a WW ploy to get the BH to cancel the test so WW stops the BH from learning more.

 

 

Don't cancel. Tell WW test is still on, great now we can confirm that you have told me all.

[cgiles]

I'm a bit amazed how people started to blame OP.

 

He asked her if she wanted a threesome, she said yes, he never asked her to have a secret relationship with another man.

 

It's like blaming a victim of daterape, because the victim initiated the date...

 

Does the other man is single ? If not contact OMW.

 

What is her job policy about relationship between employee ?

 

You need to go nuclear if you want her to slip out of the fog.

 

She needs to leave her job, and have full transparency. She needs to send a no contact letter.

 

Are you in MC ?

[strongAce]

I'm a bit amazed how people started to blame OP.

 

He asked her if she wanted a threesome, she said yes, he never asked her to have a secret relationship with another man.

 

It's like blaming a victim of daterape, because the victim initiated the date...

 

Does the other man is single ? If not contact OMW.

 

What is her job policy about relationship between employee ?

 

You need to go nuclear if you want her to slip out of the fog.

 

She needs to leave her job, and have full transparency. She needs to send a no contact letter.

 

Are you in MC ?

 

He is single and fortunately, all of this happened as she was transitioning to another job. We are going to counseling as well.

 

thank you for the good advise

 

Its good to know that others feel as I Do. I just have heard it more than a few times, that it was my fault. I was only opened to that extreme, because I truly thought I could trust her with anything. Obviously, that is why I married

[Just a Guy]

Hi Strong Ace, I guess you find yourself caught between a rock and a hard place! Have you found out the full extent of her cheating? Has she confessed to anything? I guess both of you will be able to move forward only if she gives you full disclosure. It seems to me that you would not be unduly shocked by anything that she may tell you because you seem to have an open mind on the subject of sexuality both yours and hers. I think you are more concerned with transparency and up front honesty. If she is prepared to give you that I would say the situation is salvageable. Best of luck to you.

[velvette]

 

 

I want full disclosure, but as I stated earlier, the therapist we are seeing (couple's counseling) suggested the details be omitted.

 

Oh well... lets see what happens.

 

 

Its a mistake imo to let a counselor define what your boundaries should be just because they have a few letters after their name. If you want full disclosure, insist on it.

 

 

Insist on getting the whole truth including all the details if that's what you feel you need. Just be sure you want to hear them all because you wont b able to unhear them.

 

 

It seems likely your wife was already cheating or thinking about/planning to and then set you up with this whole threesome thing to cover what she had done or was planning.

 

 

I agree with others who said if she went to his house something physical happened.

 

 

You already know your wife has boundary issues because you know she cheated before. Cheating is a poor coping strategy for people who usually have issues related to poor self esteem, excessive need for validation and or inability to deal with conflict. If she didn't address the reasons for her cheating before via counseling, well she is likely the same person.

 

 

Were you the person she cheated with? If so, its highly likely you have similar or related issues.

 

 

So, if you made a mistake, it was in attempting a lifestyle, both marriage and the threesome scenario where honesty and healthy boundaries are critical to success with someone you knew had a poor track record when it came to healthy boundaries.

[Lion Heart]

I see a couple of people here view disclosing fantasies and past sexual experiences as a bad idea. I really don't think there is anything wrong with it at all. In fact, in could enhance a relationship, but only when both parties are mature enough to handle it.

 

I view it as healthy, but that's just me

 

IMO there is nothing wrong AT ALL with discussing anything and everything with your spouse. Certainly you could discuss past sexual ventures and fantasties, why not? I think so anyhow. In fact your spouse should be the ONLY person you talk about these with. Ofcourse I'd prefer to have as many of these types of discussions BEFORE any commitments are made esp re-past sexual experiences. I guess fantasies change and or develop over time during a marriage. Fine!

 

As I'm sure SOMEONE will post. It's only when these fantasies move from imaginary to the physical realms ESPECIALLY involving other people, that major problems involving those people seem to occur.

 

I'm mature enough to realise for me at least (I'm a woman) that if my H was eager to share me, then I may as well call it an open marriage. I would also say at that point that I wouldn't know where it would lead if another man was involved with me sexually. I agree with a previous poster that women usually prefer to have sex with someone they're emotionally involved with anyway. The sex is better IMO.

Ofcourse I'm posturing because I wouldn't do it, no matter how much my H wanted it.

And if the issue was pushed then I'd look at ending the marriage because that part of a marriage shouldn't be shared and if it was expected then why be married at all. You may as well be anything else but married. It's an oxymoron to me.

 

I think you've opened a can of worms and now you're struggling to put the worms back in the can. It's pretty hard to undo things of this nature. You'd best assume you haven't been able to control this fantasy to your liking 100% and may never be able to now.

 

Lion Heart.

[cgiles]

Do you know the full timeline ?

 

It can be a good start before to get all the details.

 

Ask a timeline about actions, and not feeling. Then request a polygraph. The fact to have a timeline about actions will make you able to check it with the polygraph.

 

Even if you are not sure about the polygraph, just talk about it, and see her reactions.

[truncated]

I see a couple of people here view disclosing fantasies and past sexual experiences as a bad idea. I really don't think there is anything wrong with it at all. In fact, in could enhance a relationship, but only when both parties are mature enough to handle it.

 

I view it as healthy, but that's just me

 

It's not a bad idea, but it has nothing to do with maturity.

 

Each person is different, and of some people, sex is considered a bonding experience you do with one person, not a recreational activity you do with many. It can be one thing to discuss past experiences and "what if's" knowing they will never happen, while it's quite another to actually encourage your spouse to partake of them..

 

If a person views sex as a bonding experience, asking them to treat is a a form of recreation that involves someone other than their partner can be disconcerting and may even hurt them.

 

I don't know your wife, and I don't know her personality, but is it possible she is the type who just wants to be with you and is going along with your request to make you happy, or is she a willing and eager participant?

 

If she was just going along, she should have said something and let you know she wans;t really interested in this experiment.

 

 

Maybe in the end, it doesn't matter, as she crossed the boundary you two had agreed upon, which means that she cheated. It sounds like the two of you need to have a very frank discussion about this out sort out your feelings. It also sounds like your therapists keeping that form taking place.

Edited April 16, 2015 by truncated

[strongAce]

Hi Strong Ace, I guess you find yourself caught between a rock and a hard place! Have you found out the full extent of her cheating? Has she confessed to anything? I guess both of you will be able to move forward only if she gives you full disclosure. It seems to me that you would not be unduly shocked by anything that she may tell you because you seem to have an open mind on the subject of sexuality both yours and hers. I think you are more concerned with transparency and up front honesty. If she is prepared to give you that I would say the situation is salvageable. Best of luck to you.

 

 

You are absolutely correct. Marriage is obviously meant to be forever, and forever should be expected to be a bumpy road, however transparency is the key for success in my opinion. Now, i doubt even the smallest things she tells me.

 

since i knew she had interest in someone from work, i would often ask her if she had seen him or had any contact with him, she would always say no. clearly it is easy for her to lie.

 

That is the hardest part

[Chi townD]

Wait...wait... The therapist actually told her to keep the details from you or else it's going to make matters worse?!?!

 

 

Your therapist sucks! How are you supposed to fix a marriage without complete transparency? Fixing a marriage when you're still hiding things from each other?

 

 

This only tells me one thing. The therapist knows a lot more than you do. You're not getting the full story. A lot more happened. And it's bad enough for a therapist to tell her not to tell you!

[strongAce]

Wait...wait... The therapist actually told her to keep the details from you or else it's going to make matters worse?!?!

 

 

Your therapist sucks! How are you supposed to fix a marriage without complete transparency? Fixing a marriage when you're still hiding things from each other?

 

 

This only tells me one thing. The therapist knows a lot more than you do. You're not getting the full story. A lot more happened. And it's bad enough for a therapist to tell her not to tell you!

 

 

Yep, the therapist told the both of us, in person during one of our sessions, not to disclose details. I told her that I felt like I was signing a contract without being able to read it.

 

The therapist validated her dishonesty.

[strongAce]

Its a mistake imo to let a counselor define what your boundaries should be just because they have a few letters after their name. If you want full disclosure, insist on it.

 

 

Insist on getting the whole truth including all the details if that's what you feel you need. Just be sure you want to hear them all because you wont b able to unhear them.

 

 

It seems likely your wife was already cheating or thinking about/planning to and then set you up with this whole threesome thing to cover what she had done or was planning.

 

 

I agree with others who said if she went to his house something physical happened.

 

 

You already know your wife has boundary issues because you know she cheated before. Cheating is a poor coping strategy for people who usually have issues related to poor self esteem, excessive need for validation and or inability to deal with conflict. If she didn't address the reasons for her cheating before via counseling, well she is likely the same person.

 

 

Were you the person she cheated with? If so, its highly likely you have similar or related issues.

 

 

So, if you made a mistake, it was in attempting a lifestyle, both marriage and the threesome scenario where honesty and healthy boundaries are critical to success with someone you knew had a poor track record when it came to healthy boundaries.

 

 

No, I was not the other male in her prior marriage. And i didnt find out she had cheated until later in our relationship. Agree on your assestment that most cheaters suffer from the underlying issues you mentioned.

 

It does come across like she had this in mind.

[velvette]

No, I was not the other male in her prior marriage. And i didnt find out she had cheated until later in our relationship. Agree on your assestment that most cheaters suffer from the underlying issues you mentioned.

 

It does come across like she had this in mind.

 

 

Well issues I mentioned don't just result in cheating, so if she suffers from them, they should be obvious in how she lives her life and deals with you and your relationship.

 

 

If she has these issues, you will be seeing them one way or another again and again and most likely in cheating or other hurtful behavior.

 

 

I'm not sure how useful it is to be in marriage counseling with someone who has these kinds of issues. She needs to get that straight via individual counseling....either first or at the same time imo.

 

 

I would insist on that or get out of the marriage. I would also insist on the whole truth and possibly a different counselor. I don't like the sound of this one if she is encouraging your wife to omit the truth and both of you to rugsweep details that may or may not be important to you.

[lolablue17]

What reason did she give you for her to be lying so many times?

[oldshirt]

My wife and I used to be heavily involved in the swinging lifestyle for several years and have experience with 3somes, 4somes, group sex etc etc and I have a variety of different thoughts on this scenario.

 

 

 

 

 

 

First a couple questions - what do you mean when you say you dabbled in swinging and open marriage? what did you do and how far did that go? Also, how much investigation have you done into this affair to see what has really happened and how far did it go?

[oldshirt]

answer my questions in the above post and in the mean time here are some random thoughts in not particular order -

 

 

 

 

- I have something like 4000+ posts on these forums and probably 2500 of them are pleading with people NOT to discuss their previous sexual experiences or numbers with their current partner. It always ends up bad no matter how much people promise they won't hold it against them.

 

 

- I suspect what your discussions of the group sex and strippers and discussions of swinging etc has to a degree made her lose some respect for you as husband and father material and she has lost some of the inspiration to be faithful to you.

 

 

In other words since you have disclosed these things to her, she may now see you as a bit of a playa' and a skirt chaser and a playboy. As such that makes her more comfortable in being a bit of a playa' herself.

 

 

Think of it like how you felt about the strippers. You had no qualms banging them one night and then going out and banging someone else the next night. You felt no duty to be faithful to them because they were.....well......strippers. People feel no duty to be faithful to strippers because they feel the strippers are out there screwing the whole neighborhood. it's kind of the same thing here. You were a bit of a playa' and were open to wild times and had a lot of wild experiences so that emboldened her and made her more comfortable pushing the envelope too.

 

 

- She has a past history of infidelity. Once you do something, it's always easier to do it again.

 

 

- if you haven't done any serious investigating into what happened between them, there is a very high likelihood that this has become physical.

 

 

- When you agreed to a 3some with another man but agreed to not be with other women, even though it was complying with what she asked for, she lost a huge amount of respect as a man for you. In her subconscious brain, the only man that allows his woman to screw other men but doesn't pursue other women as well is a pussy and weak.

 

 

I generally try to avoid the "Alpha vs Beta" terminologies that are becoming so common on the internet today, but allowing your wife to experience other men is about as beta as you can get. There is good beta and bad beta. Allowing your woman to have sex with other men is about as bad beta as there is. This can cause extreme loss of respect and woman can't desire men they don't respect.

 

 

- You are within your right to consider this cheating and infidelity. As counterintuitive as it may seem, you are within your right to be livid and to bring the thunder down from the mountain.

 

 

If she wanted to get it on with this guy, you were wiling and you had a pathway in place for her to be with him. But she instead chose to call off the threesome and then got with him on the down low behind your back instead.

 

 

In my book that is actually WORSE than a garden variety affair with someone at the office and cheating on a regular spouse. She could have hooked up with him above board and had it be consensual but she chose instead to cheat behind your back while pulling the wool over your eyes that she didn't want to do it.

 

 

She wanted to do it alright, she just DIDN'T WANT YOU THERE!! She didn't want you imposing rules, boundaries and restrictions on it.

 

 

-This is breaking even more rules than a traditional monogamous couple. A traditional monogamous couple only has one rule when it comes to sex with others and that is - DONT.

 

 

A swinging couple can have dozens and dozens and dozens of rules and limits and boundaries, and she broke them all.

 

 

- I too think that her therapist is conspiring to keep information that is particularly damming to the marriage from you. In a nutshell they are keeping information from you until they can come up with a plan to try to minimize the impact of it. So you know they are trying to come up with game plans and cover stories to break good news to you.

 

 

- I don't think this is your "fault" per se but I do think there were some events and things that have all come together into a perfect storm.

 

 

This is a genie that got out of the bottle and it is going to be a real challenge to get it back in.

 

 

I think what it is going to take is you are going to have to decide what is and what is not acceptable in your marriage and then you are going to have to come down like a ton of bricks on what is not acceptable behavior.

 

 

In large part this is a respect and boundary issue and in order to gain back respect, you are going to have to establish and enforce solid boundary with the iron hand of discipline.

 

 

You tried to be the free-loving hippie and porn star and this is where it got you. You are going to have to do something else to get this back on track.

[road]

- I don't think this is your "fault" per se but I do think there were some events and things that have all come together into a perfect storm.

 

 

This is a genie that got out of the bottle and it is going to be a real challenge to get it back in.

 

 

 

 

 

I disagree it is his fault because as you said him opening the marriage made him appear weak and small to his WW.

 

 

The genie is out, his WW may never cheat again. Though he will never be able to have his WW uncheat with the OM. So putting the genie back can never happen.

[strongAce]

What reason did she give you for her to be lying so many times?

 

 

She says that she was afraid to tell me. I think she was afraid that she would have to put an end to her side 'fun'

[strongAce]

My wife and I used to be heavily involved in the swinging lifestyle for several years and have experience with 3somes, 4somes, group sex etc etc and I have a variety of different thoughts on this scenario.

 

 

 

 

 

 

First a couple questions - what do you mean when you say you dabbled in swinging and open marriage? what did you do and how far did that go? Also, how much investigation have you done into this affair to see what has really happened and how far did it go?

 

 

Dabbling went as far as just talks, we never actually did anything. And honestly, I dont know if any of those lifestyles would be a good fit for me, but I do know that I am strong enough to be able to live with my mistakes, if I was to regret it. During our talks, I would express that to her. I got the impression that all of that appealed but scared her at the same time, so we backed out from taking it any further.

 

I searched our phone records, retrieved some deleted messages and searched her social media. They would text a tremendous amount and often. Some deleted messages that I found, had them making plans to hang out and have 'fun', one even had him asking what her favorite position is and she responded "you will find out".

 

Not much else.

[strongAce]

Old shirt, I can see a lot of what you are saying could very well be the case here. However, I did agree to the threesome, with the condition that I had my on the side fun. See, her reasoning for not having a female join us is that she has no interest in females at all, in fact she finds the thought repulsive.

 

That fact, to me, shows that she is just selfish in that aspect. Why lead me on, then lead me to believe she didnt want any part of this, but continue behind my back? That is why I fully agree with you that in a way, its worse than flat out cheating.

[sandylee1]

 

A therapist advised her not to open up and offer dedetails, because it could make things worse. But I have asked many times...

 

I'm not sure I believe that her therapist said this .

 

Why does someone need a therapist to answer a question honestly?